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Fack the protestors

Page 12 of 17

posted on 8/11/22

@Clockwork, moreover, we know that these scary narratives about authoritarian green movements and questioning climate science have been actively promoted through networks funded by plutocrats such as the Koch Brothers.

It's not capitalism as a whole that is threatened by green politics. Large swathes of private enterprise need us to avert catastrophic levels of global warming. But oil and adjacent industries really are threatened, and there are a few members of the billionaire club who really don't want us to make these behavioural and technological adaptations.

posted on 8/11/22

comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago

Live in a cave, wash in streams, forage for food and basically cut themselves off entirely from everyday society, just so they can’t be called hypocrites?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd actually love to do that... Actually being able to do it in a legal way is next to impossible. As you say, we are trapped in a system that does not allow us to stay too far away from the corporate machine to that point where it would be illegal to just live off the land unless you already own said land (and even then, it's very difficult and still requires things like council tax, which gets spent on oil based items).
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The one thing I would say is that if any protesters aren’t really making any changes in their own lives - cars, flying, meat etc - then they leave themselves open to some criticism. But to expect ‘a 100% oil-free life’ is madness.

posted on 8/11/22

comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 27 seconds ago
I saw one of the Just Stop Oil protesters’ videos on Twitter. One person commenting - as far as I could tell, in all seriousness - was saying that the rims of her glasses would have been made in a factory using fossil fuels, ergo she’s a hypocrite.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's mental.... social media and the need to be "right" is sending people into a really strange mindset.

posted on 8/11/22

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 58 seconds ago
“But to think that the younger generations will grow up and adopt the behaviours of the older generations eventually is off the mark.”

Most of them behave in exactly the same way already.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What evidence do you have for this? Driving licenses amongst young folk are down 40% on the 1990s. Things like smoking and drinking is waaaaaay down amongst young folk. Young folk not having kids or getting married at the same kind of rate.

posted on 8/11/22

comment by Stewart Greacen (U1734)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 58 seconds ago
“But to think that the younger generations will grow up and adopt the behaviours of the older generations eventually is off the mark.”

Most of them behave in exactly the same way already.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What evidence do you have for this? Driving licenses amongst young folk are down 40% on the 1990s. Things like smoking and drinking is waaaaaay down amongst young folk. Young folk not having kids or getting married at the same kind of rate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

We’re talking about climate change, not how many young people drink alcohol.

posted on 8/11/22

comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago

Live in a cave, wash in streams, forage for food and basically cut themselves off entirely from everyday society, just so they can’t be called hypocrites?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd actually love to do that... Actually being able to do it in a legal way is next to impossible. As you say, we are trapped in a system that does not allow us to stay too far away from the corporate machine to that point where it would be illegal to just live off the land unless you already own said land (and even then, it's very difficult and still requires things like council tax, which gets spent on oil based items).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would detest it. Being cold half the year, washing in a stream just far enough away from the dead sheep you didn't see it. No radio, no papers etc. Terrible life

posted on 8/11/22

comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago

Live in a cave, wash in streams, forage for food and basically cut themselves off entirely from everyday society, just so they can’t be called hypocrites?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd actually love to do that... Actually being able to do it in a legal way is next to impossible. As you say, we are trapped in a system that does not allow us to stay too far away from the corporate machine to that point where it would be illegal to just live off the land unless you already own said land (and even then, it's very difficult and still requires things like council tax, which gets spent on oil based items).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would detest it. Being cold half the year, washing in a stream just far enough away from the dead sheep you didn't see it. No radio, no papers etc. Terrible life
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lol that's what I do most weekends. It's grate

posted on 8/11/22

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Rosso out here drippin’ in finesse (U17054)
posted 2 minutes ago
I think there's a boatload of evidence that, generally-speaking, younger people in the developed world are thinking more about the environment when they act *when it comes to certain lifestyle choices* than older generations, beyond their responses to surveys about lifestyle changes. I also think that we still have some collective blindspots across generations, flying being a (very) major one.

RR has mentioned peoples' party affiliations and voting patterns. There's also data on reduction of meat and dairy consumption/flexitarianism/veganism; there's vehicle registration data (which backs up what younger people have said about favouring hybrids and electric vehicles when purchasing new vehicles, despite relative disposable incomes); there's data on the focus of charitable giving and campaign donations across age demographics; there's campaign group membership, etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Where's the boatload of evidence and when you say 'more', is it enough for this discussion to completely generalise whole generations?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A quick bit of research will find you plenty.

There are many studies, polls and pieces of industry market research alike on eating habits all reporting similar things. Same on consumer trends and interest in sustainable products.

Have a look at UK vehicle registration data from last (or any given recent) year. It shows by demographic EV and hybrid registrations are skewed towards a younger demographic.

posted on 8/11/22

comment by Stewart Greacen (U1734)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago

Live in a cave, wash in streams, forage for food and basically cut themselves off entirely from everyday society, just so they can’t be called hypocrites?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd actually love to do that... Actually being able to do it in a legal way is next to impossible. As you say, we are trapped in a system that does not allow us to stay too far away from the corporate machine to that point where it would be illegal to just live off the land unless you already own said land (and even then, it's very difficult and still requires things like council tax, which gets spent on oil based items).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would detest it. Being cold half the year, washing in a stream just far enough away from the dead sheep you didn't see it. No radio, no papers etc. Terrible life
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lol that's what I do most weekends. It's grate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No wine, no footie, no family or friends, no meat or fish, or pudding. No Internet, no restaurants, art galleries, museums. No travel. Dreadful.

posted on 8/11/22

No travel?

posted on 8/11/22

comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago

Live in a cave, wash in streams, forage for food and basically cut themselves off entirely from everyday society, just so they can’t be called hypocrites?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd actually love to do that... Actually being able to do it in a legal way is next to impossible. As you say, we are trapped in a system that does not allow us to stay too far away from the corporate machine to that point where it would be illegal to just live off the land unless you already own said land (and even then, it's very difficult and still requires things like council tax, which gets spent on oil based items).
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The one thing I would say is that if any protesters aren’t really making any changes in their own lives - cars, flying, meat etc - then they leave themselves open to some criticism. But to expect ‘a 100% oil-free life’ is madness.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.

Just Stop Oil aren't advocating a completely oil-free life. I'm not aware of any single campaign group or notable campaigner that is. Not one.

Wouldn't it be great if people listened to what these campaigners are actually saying, rather than relying on mischaracterisations made by commentators in the Mail and Express.

posted on 8/11/22

comment by Rosso out here drippin’ in finesse (U17054)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Rosso out here drippin’ in finesse (U17054)
posted 2 minutes ago
I think there's a boatload of evidence that, generally-speaking, younger people in the developed world are thinking more about the environment when they act *when it comes to certain lifestyle choices* than older generations, beyond their responses to surveys about lifestyle changes. I also think that we still have some collective blindspots across generations, flying being a (very) major one.

RR has mentioned peoples' party affiliations and voting patterns. There's also data on reduction of meat and dairy consumption/flexitarianism/veganism; there's vehicle registration data (which backs up what younger people have said about favouring hybrids and electric vehicles when purchasing new vehicles, despite relative disposable incomes); there's data on the focus of charitable giving and campaign donations across age demographics; there's campaign group membership, etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Where's the boatload of evidence and when you say 'more', is it enough for this discussion to completely generalise whole generations?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A quick bit of research will find you plenty.

There are many studies, polls and pieces of industry market research alike on eating habits all reporting similar things. Same on consumer trends and interest in sustainable products.

Have a look at UK vehicle registration data from last (or any given recent) year. It shows by demographic EV and hybrid registrations are skewed towards a younger demographic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Nope, what it shows is a trend… a small number of percentage points.

And that’s only on some criteria.

On others, such as fashion, it’s the opposite.

You can’t back up the idea that you get generations care so much more. A small proportion do.

posted on 8/11/22

comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Stewart Greacen (U1734)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago

Live in a cave, wash in streams, forage for food and basically cut themselves off entirely from everyday society, just so they can’t be called hypocrites?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd actually love to do that... Actually being able to do it in a legal way is next to impossible. As you say, we are trapped in a system that does not allow us to stay too far away from the corporate machine to that point where it would be illegal to just live off the land unless you already own said land (and even then, it's very difficult and still requires things like council tax, which gets spent on oil based items).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would detest it. Being cold half the year, washing in a stream just far enough away from the dead sheep you didn't see it. No radio, no papers etc. Terrible life
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lol that's what I do most weekends. It's grate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No wine, no footie, no family or friends, no meat or fish, or pudding. No Internet, no restaurants, art galleries, museums. No travel. Dreadful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can make wine from tree sap or nearby fruit. You can have friends there too. Just away from terrible people which is great. Nothing wrong with catching some fish out the sea either. Generate some power via solar or wind using recycled materials. Just need to be 100% all or nothing.

posted on 8/11/22

comment by Stewart Greacen (U1734)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Stewart Greacen (U1734)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago

Live in a cave, wash in streams, forage for food and basically cut themselves off entirely from everyday society, just so they can’t be called hypocrites?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd actually love to do that... Actually being able to do it in a legal way is next to impossible. As you say, we are trapped in a system that does not allow us to stay too far away from the corporate machine to that point where it would be illegal to just live off the land unless you already own said land (and even then, it's very difficult and still requires things like council tax, which gets spent on oil based items).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would detest it. Being cold half the year, washing in a stream just far enough away from the dead sheep you didn't see it. No radio, no papers etc. Terrible life
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lol that's what I do most weekends. It's grate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No wine, no footie, no family or friends, no meat or fish, or pudding. No Internet, no restaurants, art galleries, museums. No travel. Dreadful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can make wine from tree sap or nearby fruit. You can have friends there too. Just away from terrible people which is great. Nothing wrong with catching some fish out the sea either. Generate some power via solar or wind using recycled materials. Just need to be 100% all or nothing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't

posted on 8/11/22

comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Stewart Greacen (U1734)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago

Live in a cave, wash in streams, forage for food and basically cut themselves off entirely from everyday society, just so they can’t be called hypocrites?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd actually love to do that... Actually being able to do it in a legal way is next to impossible. As you say, we are trapped in a system that does not allow us to stay too far away from the corporate machine to that point where it would be illegal to just live off the land unless you already own said land (and even then, it's very difficult and still requires things like council tax, which gets spent on oil based items).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would detest it. Being cold half the year, washing in a stream just far enough away from the dead sheep you didn't see it. No radio, no papers etc. Terrible life
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lol that's what I do most weekends. It's grate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No wine, no footie, no family or friends, no meat or fish, or pudding. No Internet, no restaurants, art galleries, museums. No travel. Dreadful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why couldn’t you have friends or family? The smell, I guess!

posted on 8/11/22

comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Stewart Greacen (U1734)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago

Live in a cave, wash in streams, forage for food and basically cut themselves off entirely from everyday society, just so they can’t be called hypocrites?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd actually love to do that... Actually being able to do it in a legal way is next to impossible. As you say, we are trapped in a system that does not allow us to stay too far away from the corporate machine to that point where it would be illegal to just live off the land unless you already own said land (and even then, it's very difficult and still requires things like council tax, which gets spent on oil based items).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would detest it. Being cold half the year, washing in a stream just far enough away from the dead sheep you didn't see it. No radio, no papers etc. Terrible life
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lol that's what I do most weekends. It's grate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No wine, no footie, no family or friends, no meat or fish, or pudding. No Internet, no restaurants, art galleries, museums. No travel. Dreadful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Only an old person would moan about no pudding

posted on 8/11/22

"Guys, we really should stop granting licences for new oil and gas exploration. We already huge amounts of barrels stashed and access to vast unextracted resources - more than we should really be taking out of the ground. That's enough. Let's be serious about focusing on a much quicker transition to renewable energy and plastic reduction and alternatives."

"I SAW YOU USING AN IPHONE, YOU FACKING HYPOCRITE!"

posted on 8/11/22

comment by Stewart Greacen (U1734)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Stewart Greacen (U1734)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago

Live in a cave, wash in streams, forage for food and basically cut themselves off entirely from everyday society, just so they can’t be called hypocrites?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd actually love to do that... Actually being able to do it in a legal way is next to impossible. As you say, we are trapped in a system that does not allow us to stay too far away from the corporate machine to that point where it would be illegal to just live off the land unless you already own said land (and even then, it's very difficult and still requires things like council tax, which gets spent on oil based items).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would detest it. Being cold half the year, washing in a stream just far enough away from the dead sheep you didn't see it. No radio, no papers etc. Terrible life
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lol that's what I do most weekends. It's grate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No wine, no footie, no family or friends, no meat or fish, or pudding. No Internet, no restaurants, art galleries, museums. No travel. Dreadful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can make wine from tree sap or nearby fruit. You can have friends there too. Just away from terrible people which is great. Nothing wrong with catching some fish out the sea either. Generate some power via solar or wind using recycled materials. Just need to be 100% all or nothing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well if it's just those things I have to do, count me out.

posted on 8/11/22

These activists will probably end up resorting to terrorist acts.

Let's see what you lot say then.

posted on 8/11/22

Just away to give a presentation to some boomers just now along the lines of today's discussions. I shall give some feedback on their views

posted on 8/11/22

comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 1 minute ago
These activists will probably end up resorting to terrorist acts.

Let's see what you lot say then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I’m sure every sane person will denounce that… your point was?

posted on 8/11/22

comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 1 minute ago
These activists will probably end up resorting to terrorist acts.

Let's see what you lot say then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, that’s a new one. We’ve seen ‘why hold up traffic and inconvenience already people’ shift to ‘what have works of art got to do with it’ and back again. Now we’re using things they haven’t even done to criticise them!

posted on 8/11/22

comment by Rosso out here drippin’ in finesse (U17054)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago

Live in a cave, wash in streams, forage for food and basically cut themselves off entirely from everyday society, just so they can’t be called hypocrites?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd actually love to do that... Actually being able to do it in a legal way is next to impossible. As you say, we are trapped in a system that does not allow us to stay too far away from the corporate machine to that point where it would be illegal to just live off the land unless you already own said land (and even then, it's very difficult and still requires things like council tax, which gets spent on oil based items).
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The one thing I would say is that if any protesters aren’t really making any changes in their own lives - cars, flying, meat etc - then they leave themselves open to some criticism. But to expect ‘a 100% oil-free life’ is madness.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.

Just Stop Oil aren't advocating a completely oil-free life. I'm not aware of any single campaign group or notable campaigner that is. Not one.

Wouldn't it be great if people listened to what these campaigners are actually saying, rather than relying on mischaracterisations made by commentators in the Mail and Express.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They're saying 'me me me me', you're ruining 'my future', 'how dare you!' while living in a first world country.

posted on 8/11/22

comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 1 minute ago
These activists will probably end up resorting to terrorist acts.

Let's see what you lot say then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, that’s a new one. We’ve seen ‘why hold up traffic and inconvenience already people’ shift to ‘what have works of art got to do with it’ and back again. Now we’re using things they haven’t even done to criticise them!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

*ordinary people

posted on 8/11/22

comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Rosso out here drippin’ in finesse (U17054)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago

Live in a cave, wash in streams, forage for food and basically cut themselves off entirely from everyday society, just so they can’t be called hypocrites?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd actually love to do that... Actually being able to do it in a legal way is next to impossible. As you say, we are trapped in a system that does not allow us to stay too far away from the corporate machine to that point where it would be illegal to just live off the land unless you already own said land (and even then, it's very difficult and still requires things like council tax, which gets spent on oil based items).
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The one thing I would say is that if any protesters aren’t really making any changes in their own lives - cars, flying, meat etc - then they leave themselves open to some criticism. But to expect ‘a 100% oil-free life’ is madness.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.

Just Stop Oil aren't advocating a completely oil-free life. I'm not aware of any single campaign group or notable campaigner that is. Not one.

Wouldn't it be great if people listened to what these campaigners are actually saying, rather than relying on mischaracterisations made by commentators in the Mail and Express.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They're saying 'me me me me', you're ruining 'my future', 'how dare you!' while living in a first world country.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

You could just come out and say they need to move to Somalia or Bangladesh before you take them seriously?

But that would be a ridiculous thing to say, wouldn’t it?

Page 12 of 17

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