Christ a good Rangers friend of mine gives himself away every time he is at the cinema as he only will take a blue straw 😂

Like your rangers v Liverpool article, where you ask if we (referring to rangers) will get pumped. And you (also referring to rangers) did

Besides I bet your fat and I am honking if I am led to believe on ja606 that’s a give away 😂😂

comment by Lexballielegend (U22945)
posted 13 seconds ago
Besides I bet your fat and I am honking if I am led to believe on ja606 that’s a give away 😂😂
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I believe he is indeed fat and you are indeed honking 😂😂

Joking apart why not just be honest and say look I am a Celtic man it would be inappropriate I ref this game at Celtic park versus let’s say Motherwell, it makes total sense 👍

I like to pose different options and different sides even if its not a view I share.

I often try to see things from the other perspective so as to not get lost into something that I WANT.

If people think thats me at a WUM or that or just arguin for arguments sake then so be it.

In this case I was genuinely posing possible problems in implementing it and then regulating it.

I hvae no idea how they regulate it in England, if its from a legal stand point or if they can just impose those rules without restrictions or what criteria they use to rule someone out as a fan etc.

comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 1 minute ago
I like to pose different options and different sides even if its not a view I share.

I often try to see things from the other perspective so as to not get lost into something that I WANT.

If people think thats me at a WUM or that or just arguin for arguments sake then so be it.

In this case I was genuinely posing possible problems in implementing it and then regulating it.

I hvae no idea how they regulate it in England, if its from a legal stand point or if they can just impose those rules without restrictions or what criteria they use to rule someone out as a fan etc.
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My feedback for you to engage in some self-reflection about whether your suggested obstacles were logical or plausible.

The “honest/dishonest” point you’ve brought up several times and I’ve addressed it several times with reference to unconscious bias.

Legally I can see no plausible objection, given the selective nature of refereeing appointments. Indeed no legal argument has been put forward by you that would suggest there could be objections on legal grounds.

There is a body that appoints refs (PGMOL), they plus the premier league set the rules around who refs can and can’t referee, which extends to games involving rivals of the team a referee supports. Which is actually a step further than being proposed on this thread.

comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 1 hour, 52 minutes ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted about a minute ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 8 minutes ago

I’ve no idea why a fan who supports Elgin city for example would want to ref an OF final. Surely, he’d want to ref Elgin in a final-but it’s only right that he can’t?!
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really ?? you have no idea why a ref wouldnt have an OF game as their top match they would like to ref?

same reason a scottish ref would dream of reffing a orld cup final.

Its the biggest prestige in our game, its a chance for him to stand out and move forward in his career and get even bigger games.

Refs want to be involved in the biggest games possible, they want to earn as much as possible
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I think there’s a massive difference between a World Cup final and an OF derby ffs.

I’m sure they’d want to ref any cup final, not just an OF one.
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difference in levels but not a difference in reasons to ref them.

you would want to ref either or for the same reasons.

prestige ,money, career advancement and testing yourself at the highest level.
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They get the same money and are judged the same way no matter who’s in the final.
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no the dont they get more money ,,,, you cant get paid for reffing games you dont ref. the prestige and chance to prove yourself also. If you do well in the high profile games consistently you will get more euro games, more chance of international games. etc.
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Is that why no Scottish referees have officiated any UEFA games since 2016?

Forget that last post.

FWIW after reading all of this afternoon's chat I do not believe that any ref will "cheat" to give their preferred team a favour. It is not worth their professional career or respect. Don't forget they also have other jobs like teachers, ops managers etc and have that professional profile to consider.

I know someone who was a Grade One official. He never refereed a Celtic or Rangers game but he did say there is a clique in the refs in Scotland but that clique is not club related, more jobs for the boys clique. He has said that some of the refs who get accused of what not are hard working decent guys.

Anyway onto this "unconscious bias". I think this is more relevant. Football and it's rules are open for subjectivity. Can a ref be influenced unconcsciously by a situation, a crowd, previous decisions etc - absolutely yes. We probably all make decisions in work based on previous experience of us and others. So to take decisions in isolation and claim cheating is daft. To look at similar situations in different games, with different atmospheres, crowd sizes, clubs, pressures etc would provide a better basis for identifying trends such as certain clubs getting certain decisions more favourably, other clubs being penalised more. There could always be that conscious bias of liking a player and thinking "they'd never cheat".

Look at Tottenham play Son - the good guy everyone says. 6 times he has stamped on a player. Everythime we hear he doesn't do it deliberately it will just be an accident. At what point do people start to realise their decisions were influenced by their feelings towards the person or club?

.
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Is that why no Scottish referees have officiated any UEFA games since 2016?
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not true.

Collum has

comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 6 minutes ago
.
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Is that why no Scottish referees have officiated any UEFA games since 2016?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not true.

Collum has
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The next post-by the same person-literally says ‘forget that last post’.

If the best ref in the country is supports Celtic I have no problem in them reffng any of our games, Id encourage it.

I have never called out a ref as being biased either way and if you think the rangers refs are more biased than the celtic ones then your off your nut.

before we address what team each support. Id prefer to address the training that goes into being a ref, the selection process (in terms of their ability to do the job) none of this need a certain job or standing, none of this mates stuff. Identify the key assets required to be a ref and then go about scouting candidates that how these traits the most.

100% agree with Ivan about casting our net far wider than we do.

the game is nothing like it used to be and that includes for refs. the game is so mich quicker, the rules more complex and their is so much scrutiny in decisions that VAR is essential. Individuals cannot referee our game to the level required and demanded now its impossible.

There is more questions raised about refs now than ever before cos the detail we can evaluate them and the games rules being more complex than ever before.

comment by Call Sign (U3627)
posted 12 minutes ago
FWIW after reading all of this afternoon's chat I do not believe that any ref will "cheat" to give their preferred team a favour. It is not worth their professional career or respect. Don't forget they also have other jobs like teachers, ops managers etc and have that professional profile to consider.

I know someone who was a Grade One official. He never refereed a Celtic or Rangers game but he did say there is a clique in the refs in Scotland but that clique is not club related, more jobs for the boys clique. He has said that some of the refs who get accused of what not are hard working decent guys.

Anyway onto this "unconscious bias". I think this is more relevant. Football and it's rules are open for subjectivity. Can a ref be influenced unconcsciously by a situation, a crowd, previous decisions etc - absolutely yes. We probably all make decisions in work based on previous experience of us and others. So to take decisions in isolation and claim cheating is daft. To look at similar situations in different games, with different atmospheres, crowd sizes, clubs, pressures etc would provide a better basis for identifying trends such as certain clubs getting certain decisions more favourably, other clubs being penalised more. There could always be that conscious bias of liking a player and thinking "they'd never cheat".

Look at Tottenham play Son - the good guy everyone says. 6 times he has stamped on a player. Everythime we hear he doesn't do it deliberately it will just be an accident. At what point do people start to realise their decisions were influenced by their feelings towards the person or club?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
These points get lost too easily, as it’s just put down to paranoia. Rangers fans seem to think that their hands are clean here, when we’ve had numerous occasions of them spitting the dummy out about refs. Collum didn’t ref a rangers game for months after a complaint from the club about him.

I don’t get why there’s questions asked about attempts to improve the standard of refereeing, rather than looking at ways to better it.

comment by My POV (U10636)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Call Sign (U3627)
posted 12 minutes ago
FWIW after reading all of this afternoon's chat I do not believe that any ref will "cheat" to give their preferred team a favour. It is not worth their professional career or respect. Don't forget they also have other jobs like teachers, ops managers etc and have that professional profile to consider.

I know someone who was a Grade One official. He never refereed a Celtic or Rangers game but he did say there is a clique in the refs in Scotland but that clique is not club related, more jobs for the boys clique. He has said that some of the refs who get accused of what not are hard working decent guys.

Anyway onto this "unconscious bias". I think this is more relevant. Football and it's rules are open for subjectivity. Can a ref be influenced unconcsciously by a situation, a crowd, previous decisions etc - absolutely yes. We probably all make decisions in work based on previous experience of us and others. So to take decisions in isolation and claim cheating is daft. To look at similar situations in different games, with different atmospheres, crowd sizes, clubs, pressures etc would provide a better basis for identifying trends such as certain clubs getting certain decisions more favourably, other clubs being penalised more. There could always be that conscious bias of liking a player and thinking "they'd never cheat".

Look at Tottenham play Son - the good guy everyone says. 6 times he has stamped on a player. Everythime we hear he doesn't do it deliberately it will just be an accident. At what point do people start to realise their decisions were influenced by their feelings towards the person or club?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
These points get lost too easily, as it’s just put down to paranoia. Rangers fans seem to think that their hands are clean here, when we’ve had numerous occasions of them spitting the dummy out about refs. Collum didn’t ref a rangers game for months after a complaint from the club about him.

I don’t get why there’s questions asked about attempts to improve the standard of refereeing, rather than looking at ways to better it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
for the most part the noise coming from Rangers fans are they are $hite not biased.

And from what I see on here the support from celtic seems split 50/50 that the refs are bias and out to get celtic.

As a Celtic fan, I wouldn’t want the best ref in the country refereeing Celtic if they were a Celtic fan. That’s what we’re talking about here.

comment by bmcl1987 - the M stands for meltdown 🤓 (U14177)
posted 2 minutes ago
As a Celtic fan, I wouldn’t want the best ref in the country refereeing Celtic if they were a Celtic fan. That’s what we’re talking about here.
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I wouldnt care one bit, never have

comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by bmcl1987 - the M stands for meltdown 🤓 (U14177)
posted 2 minutes ago
As a Celtic fan, I wouldn’t want the best ref in the country refereeing Celtic if they were a Celtic fan. That’s what we’re talking about here.
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I wouldnt care one bit, never have
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that is your opinion. But you can see it’s different from a Celtic fan reffing a rangers game, which was what you mentioned in your post, which from what I can tell none of us are asking for. Indeed a fellow poster suggested no issues with a Celtic fan reffing a game between hearts and rangers.

Just another example of strawmanning on your part I’m afraid to say. Might not be intentional but it is what it is.

Same way how an English ref could do a Scotland international game, but I don’t think you’d be approving of an English ref reffing an England game.

comment by Call Sign (U3627)
posted 23 minutes ago
FWIW after reading all of this afternoon's chat I do not believe that any ref will "cheat" to give their preferred team a favour. It is not worth their professional career or respect. Don't forget they also have other jobs like teachers, ops managers etc and have that professional profile to consider.

I know someone who was a Grade One official. He never refereed a Celtic or Rangers game but he did say there is a clique in the refs in Scotland but that clique is not club related, more jobs for the boys clique. He has said that some of the refs who get accused of what not are hard working decent guys.

Anyway onto this "unconscious bias". I think this is more relevant. Football and it's rules are open for subjectivity. Can a ref be influenced unconcsciously by a situation, a crowd, previous decisions etc - absolutely yes. We probably all make decisions in work based on previous experience of us and others. So to take decisions in isolation and claim cheating is daft. To look at similar situations in different games, with different atmospheres, crowd sizes, clubs, pressures etc would provide a better basis for identifying trends such as certain clubs getting certain decisions more favourably, other clubs being penalised more. There could always be that conscious bias of liking a player and thinking "they'd never cheat".

Look at Tottenham play Son - the good guy everyone says. 6 times he has stamped on a player. Everythime we hear he doesn't do it deliberately it will just be an accident. At what point do people start to realise their decisions were influenced by their feelings towards the person or club?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good post 👍

comment by bmcl1987 - the M stands for meltdown 🤓 (U14177)
posted about a minute ago
Same way how an English ref could do a Scotland international game, but I don’t think you’d be approving of an English ref reffing an England game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
again I wouldnt mind.

what team a ref supports has no bearing on my opinion of him or his ability to do his job.

comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by bmcl1987 - the M stands for meltdown 🤓 (U14177)
posted about a minute ago
Same way how an English ref could do a Scotland international game, but I don’t think you’d be approving of an English ref reffing an England game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
again I wouldnt mind.

what team a ref supports has no bearing on my opinion of him or his ability to do his job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
😂😂😂😂😂

An entirely ridiculous position.

You’d have been happy with an Argentinian refereeing the World Cup final?

Or hypothetically, Scotland make it to a World Cup final. Huge moment, once in a lifetime surely. We play against Russia in said final. You “wouldn’t mind” if that referee was also Russian? That’s your genuine position that you think is credible?

I know Collum is apparently a tim.

I couldnt tell you another celtic fan ref, off the top of my head I couldnt tell you any rangers fan refs.

Believe me or not it not something Iv looked into finding out, Iv never felt the need to enquire, I dont see any bias.

comment by bmcl1987 - the M stands for meltdown 🤓 (U14177)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by bmcl1987 - the M stands for meltdown 🤓 (U14177)
posted about a minute ago
Same way how an English ref could do a Scotland international game, but I don’t think you’d be approving of an English ref reffing an England game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
again I wouldnt mind.

what team a ref supports has no bearing on my opinion of him or his ability to do his job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
😂😂😂😂😂

An entirely ridiculous position.

You’d have been happy with an Argentinian refereeing the World Cup final?

Or hypothetically, Scotland make it to a World Cup final. Huge moment, once in a lifetime surely. We play against Russia in said final. You “wouldn’t mind” if that referee was also Russian? That’s your genuine position that you think is credible?
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If that ref is the best and I if knew his history and had seen him in other games involving that team and others and knew how good he was at his job, then no I wouldnt.

If I knew nothing of the guy I wouldnt judge him.

Answer the question whodunnit 👍