comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 6 minutes ago
"FFP was brought in to specifically stifle City and any other club that might dare to challenge the ‘Established Elite’ as they call themselves. Only the most gullible would think it was introduced to protect the league in general."
It was actually Portsmouth going into administration and dropping down the leagues due to spending beyond their means.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that what they made you believe?
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 27 minutes ago
From an emotive perspective, the opposite could be said too though. City have ultimately won the cases about their own conduct so far once it’s gone past the regulators, so there’s clearly justification for their actions.
I’m not sure it’s relevant to this particular case though. City said before the ruling change they thought the original rules were unlawful and so were the amended rules. The pl decided to put them in. City have challenged and they’ve been deemed unlawful.
The alternative is advocating for a regulator to be able to implement unlawful rules and surely no one wants that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arsenal would probably disagree
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 6 minutes ago
"FFP was brought in to specifically stifle City and any other club that might dare to challenge the ‘Established Elite’ as they call themselves. Only the most gullible would think it was introduced to protect the league in general."
It was actually Portsmouth going into administration and dropping down the leagues due to spending beyond their means.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that what they made you believe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who?
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 3 minutes ago
The Established Elite
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Last time I looked senior executives at Liverpool don't have to refer to John Henry as His Highness. What does Pep have to call City's owner?
I didn’t realise John Henry was a member of a Royal Family, obvious really with a name like Henry I suppose.
I admire his down to earth relationship with his subjects
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 32 seconds ago
I didn’t realise John Henry was a member of a Royal Family, obvious really with a name like Henry I suppose.
I admire his down to earth relationship with his subjects
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The man bleating about an established elite or cartel holds the titles of Vice President, Dep' PM and is a billionaire senior royal of the ruling family of a nation state
How are Liverpool's owners part of an established elite when they bought LFC (2010) after Mansour bought City (2008)?
I’ve never heard Mansour bleating about anything!
"Part of City’s challenge in the APT case saw them take aim at the voting structure of the league, arguing that votes that led to rules being implemented led to a “tyranny of the majority”. This claim was rejected by the tribunal but invited the question of how else the league might adopt and enforce its rules. Perhaps by decree on the part of its champions?"
Tyranny of the majority, cartel, established elite are all narratives peddled by the club and, subsequently, their fanbase online like Boris.
Its a load of shiite and you know it. What makes it funnier is the owner of your club is the epitome of an 'established elite or a cartel.
Yer
Is funny Man Cs* fans winin anoot the elite when they r own bye the King of Arabia ffs
comment by #4zA (U22472)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yer
Is funny Man Cs* fans winin anoot the elite when they r own bye the King of Arabia ffs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This.
After years of us being accused of delaying tactics, without any proof, for the 115 case; I found it amusing to learn that the Premier League has a track record of delaying tactics, and hence breaching their own rules, in the APT findings legal document.
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 54 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 32 seconds ago
I didn’t realise John Henry was a member of a Royal Family, obvious really with a name like Henry I suppose.
I admire his down to earth relationship with his subjects
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The man bleating about an established elite or cartel holds the titles of Vice President, Dep' PM and is a billionaire senior royal of the ruling family of a nation state
How are Liverpool's owners part of an established elite when they bought LFC (2010) after Mansour bought City (2008)?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of interest, how do you know how Pep and Mansour address each other other?
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 51 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 27 minutes ago
From an emotive perspective, the opposite could be said too though. City have ultimately won the cases about their own conduct so far once it’s gone past the regulators, so there’s clearly justification for their actions.
I’m not sure it’s relevant to this particular case though. City said before the ruling change they thought the original rules were unlawful and so were the amended rules. The pl decided to put them in. City have challenged and they’ve been deemed unlawful.
The alternative is advocating for a regulator to be able to implement unlawful rules and surely no one wants that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arsenal would probably disagree
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As long as they can financially dope themselves with a low interest loan, I don't think they care.
comment by mancWoohoo- maximus mardius cob-onius (U10676)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 51 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 27 minutes ago
From an emotive perspective, the opposite could be said too though. City have ultimately won the cases about their own conduct so far once it’s gone past the regulators, so there’s clearly justification for their actions.
I’m not sure it’s relevant to this particular case though. City said before the ruling change they thought the original rules were unlawful and so were the amended rules. The pl decided to put them in. City have challenged and they’ve been deemed unlawful.
The alternative is advocating for a regulator to be able to implement unlawful rules and surely no one wants that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arsenal would probably disagree
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As long as they can financially dope themselves with a low interest loan, I don't think they care.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I imagine they’re already starting one of their secret petitions
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
"Part of City’s challenge in the APT case saw them take aim at the voting structure of the league, arguing that votes that led to rules being implemented led to a “tyranny of the majority”. This claim was rejected by the tribunal but invited the question of how else the league might adopt and enforce its rules. Perhaps by decree on the part of its champions?"
Tyranny of the majority, cartel, established elite are all narratives peddled by the club and, subsequently, their fanbase online like Boris.
Its a load of shiite and you know it. What makes it funnier is the owner of your club is the epitome of an 'established elite or a cartel.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who wrote that first paragraph? As that wasn’t rejected by the tribunal, they agreed that the premier league abused a dominant position.
Melts may correct me here but from what I can gather, details of the tribunal’s statement can only be released if both parties agree.
City are quite happy to have full disclosure but the PL are cherry picking what’s being released.
I wonder why?
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 minute ago
Melts may correct me here but from what I can gather, details of the tribunal’s statement can only be released if both parties agree.
City are quite happy to have full disclosure but the PL are cherry picking what’s being released.
I wonder why?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The tribunals released, spent about three hours yesterday reading it! For some reason, the PL sat on it for two weeks….
City are all about full disclosure as we all know.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
"Part of City’s challenge in the APT case saw them take aim at the voting structure of the league, arguing that votes that led to rules being implemented led to a “tyranny of the majority”. This claim was rejected by the tribunal but invited the question of how else the league might adopt and enforce its rules. Perhaps by decree on the part of its champions?"
Tyranny of the majority, cartel, established elite are all narratives peddled by the club and, subsequently, their fanbase online like Boris.
Its a load of shiite and you know it. What makes it funnier is the owner of your club is the epitome of an 'established elite or a cartel.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who wrote that first paragraph? As that wasn’t rejected by the tribunal, they agreed that the premier league abused a dominant position.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/oct/09/manchester-city-rage-against-machine-premier-league
Where are you getting the tribunal didn't reject the tyranny of majority claim?
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 minute ago
Melts may correct me here but from what I can gather, details of the tribunal’s statement can only be released if both parties agree.
City are quite happy to have full disclosure but the PL are cherry picking what’s being released.
I wonder why?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The tribunals released, spent about three hours yesterday reading it! For some reason, the PL sat on it for two weeks….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Premier League delay tactics
The governance is shocking.
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 54 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 32 seconds ago
I didn’t realise John Henry was a member of a Royal Family, obvious really with a name like Henry I suppose.
I admire his down to earth relationship with his subjects
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The man bleating about an established elite or cartel holds the titles of Vice President, Dep' PM and is a billionaire senior royal of the ruling family of a nation state
How are Liverpool's owners part of an established elite when they bought LFC (2010) after Mansour bought City (2008)?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of interest, how do you know how Pep and Mansour address each other other?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You quoted it on Cleverson's article
Out of interest how are FSG part of the established elite if they bought the club after Mansour bought City?
What did they have to do to gain entry to this secretive shadowy cabal?
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
"Part of City’s challenge in the APT case saw them take aim at the voting structure of the league, arguing that votes that led to rules being implemented led to a “tyranny of the majority”. This claim was rejected by the tribunal but invited the question of how else the league might adopt and enforce its rules. Perhaps by decree on the part of its champions?"
Tyranny of the majority, cartel, established elite are all narratives peddled by the club and, subsequently, their fanbase online like Boris.
Its a load of shiite and you know it. What makes it funnier is the owner of your club is the epitome of an 'established elite or a cartel.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who wrote that first paragraph? As that wasn’t rejected by the tribunal, they agreed that the premier league abused a dominant position.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/oct/09/manchester-city-rage-against-machine-premier-league
Where are you getting the tribunal didn't reject the tyranny of majority claim?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it’s not a claim, it was part of city’s argument for the question of did the PL abuse their position to dominance, to which the tribunal said yes.
There seems to be so many journalists reporting on this that clearly either haven’t read or understood the judgment and that’s on both sides of the argument too.
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 54 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 32 seconds ago
I didn’t realise John Henry was a member of a Royal Family, obvious really with a name like Henry I suppose.
I admire his down to earth relationship with his subjects
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The man bleating about an established elite or cartel holds the titles of Vice President, Dep' PM and is a billionaire senior royal of the ruling family of a nation state
How are Liverpool's owners part of an established elite when they bought LFC (2010) after Mansour bought City (2008)?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of interest, how do you know how Pep and Mansour address each other other?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You quoted it on Cleverson's article
Out of interest how are FSG part of the established elite if they bought the club after Mansour bought City?
What did they have to do to gain entry to this secretive shadowy cabal?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly, I haven't got a clue how Pep and HRH address each other in private.
Secondly, I didn't invent the term 'Established Elite', it was more of a media creation.
Hope that helps.
Sign in if you want to comment
City win APT case
Page 13 of 16
12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16
posted on 9/10/24
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 6 minutes ago
"FFP was brought in to specifically stifle City and any other club that might dare to challenge the ‘Established Elite’ as they call themselves. Only the most gullible would think it was introduced to protect the league in general."
It was actually Portsmouth going into administration and dropping down the leagues due to spending beyond their means.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that what they made you believe?
posted on 9/10/24
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 27 minutes ago
From an emotive perspective, the opposite could be said too though. City have ultimately won the cases about their own conduct so far once it’s gone past the regulators, so there’s clearly justification for their actions.
I’m not sure it’s relevant to this particular case though. City said before the ruling change they thought the original rules were unlawful and so were the amended rules. The pl decided to put them in. City have challenged and they’ve been deemed unlawful.
The alternative is advocating for a regulator to be able to implement unlawful rules and surely no one wants that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arsenal would probably disagree
posted on 9/10/24
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 6 minutes ago
"FFP was brought in to specifically stifle City and any other club that might dare to challenge the ‘Established Elite’ as they call themselves. Only the most gullible would think it was introduced to protect the league in general."
It was actually Portsmouth going into administration and dropping down the leagues due to spending beyond their means.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that what they made you believe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who?
posted on 9/10/24
The Established Elite
posted on 9/10/24
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 3 minutes ago
The Established Elite
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Last time I looked senior executives at Liverpool don't have to refer to John Henry as His Highness. What does Pep have to call City's owner?
posted on 9/10/24
I didn’t realise John Henry was a member of a Royal Family, obvious really with a name like Henry I suppose.
I admire his down to earth relationship with his subjects
posted on 9/10/24
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 32 seconds ago
I didn’t realise John Henry was a member of a Royal Family, obvious really with a name like Henry I suppose.
I admire his down to earth relationship with his subjects
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The man bleating about an established elite or cartel holds the titles of Vice President, Dep' PM and is a billionaire senior royal of the ruling family of a nation state
How are Liverpool's owners part of an established elite when they bought LFC (2010) after Mansour bought City (2008)?
posted on 9/10/24
I’ve never heard Mansour bleating about anything!
posted on 9/10/24
"Part of City’s challenge in the APT case saw them take aim at the voting structure of the league, arguing that votes that led to rules being implemented led to a “tyranny of the majority”. This claim was rejected by the tribunal but invited the question of how else the league might adopt and enforce its rules. Perhaps by decree on the part of its champions?"
Tyranny of the majority, cartel, established elite are all narratives peddled by the club and, subsequently, their fanbase online like Boris.
Its a load of shiite and you know it. What makes it funnier is the owner of your club is the epitome of an 'established elite or a cartel.
posted on 9/10/24
Yer
Is funny Man Cs* fans winin anoot the elite when they r own bye the King of Arabia ffs
posted on 9/10/24
comment by #4zA (U22472)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yer
Is funny Man Cs* fans winin anoot the elite when they r own bye the King of Arabia ffs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This.
posted on 9/10/24
After years of us being accused of delaying tactics, without any proof, for the 115 case; I found it amusing to learn that the Premier League has a track record of delaying tactics, and hence breaching their own rules, in the APT findings legal document.
posted on 9/10/24
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 54 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 32 seconds ago
I didn’t realise John Henry was a member of a Royal Family, obvious really with a name like Henry I suppose.
I admire his down to earth relationship with his subjects
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The man bleating about an established elite or cartel holds the titles of Vice President, Dep' PM and is a billionaire senior royal of the ruling family of a nation state
How are Liverpool's owners part of an established elite when they bought LFC (2010) after Mansour bought City (2008)?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of interest, how do you know how Pep and Mansour address each other other?
posted on 9/10/24
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 51 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 27 minutes ago
From an emotive perspective, the opposite could be said too though. City have ultimately won the cases about their own conduct so far once it’s gone past the regulators, so there’s clearly justification for their actions.
I’m not sure it’s relevant to this particular case though. City said before the ruling change they thought the original rules were unlawful and so were the amended rules. The pl decided to put them in. City have challenged and they’ve been deemed unlawful.
The alternative is advocating for a regulator to be able to implement unlawful rules and surely no one wants that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arsenal would probably disagree
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As long as they can financially dope themselves with a low interest loan, I don't think they care.
posted on 9/10/24
comment by mancWoohoo- maximus mardius cob-onius (U10676)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 51 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 27 minutes ago
From an emotive perspective, the opposite could be said too though. City have ultimately won the cases about their own conduct so far once it’s gone past the regulators, so there’s clearly justification for their actions.
I’m not sure it’s relevant to this particular case though. City said before the ruling change they thought the original rules were unlawful and so were the amended rules. The pl decided to put them in. City have challenged and they’ve been deemed unlawful.
The alternative is advocating for a regulator to be able to implement unlawful rules and surely no one wants that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arsenal would probably disagree
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As long as they can financially dope themselves with a low interest loan, I don't think they care.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I imagine they’re already starting one of their secret petitions
posted on 9/10/24
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
"Part of City’s challenge in the APT case saw them take aim at the voting structure of the league, arguing that votes that led to rules being implemented led to a “tyranny of the majority”. This claim was rejected by the tribunal but invited the question of how else the league might adopt and enforce its rules. Perhaps by decree on the part of its champions?"
Tyranny of the majority, cartel, established elite are all narratives peddled by the club and, subsequently, their fanbase online like Boris.
Its a load of shiite and you know it. What makes it funnier is the owner of your club is the epitome of an 'established elite or a cartel.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who wrote that first paragraph? As that wasn’t rejected by the tribunal, they agreed that the premier league abused a dominant position.
posted on 9/10/24
Melts may correct me here but from what I can gather, details of the tribunal’s statement can only be released if both parties agree.
City are quite happy to have full disclosure but the PL are cherry picking what’s being released.
I wonder why?
posted on 9/10/24
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 minute ago
Melts may correct me here but from what I can gather, details of the tribunal’s statement can only be released if both parties agree.
City are quite happy to have full disclosure but the PL are cherry picking what’s being released.
I wonder why?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The tribunals released, spent about three hours yesterday reading it! For some reason, the PL sat on it for two weeks….
posted on 9/10/24
City are all about full disclosure as we all know.
posted on 9/10/24
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
"Part of City’s challenge in the APT case saw them take aim at the voting structure of the league, arguing that votes that led to rules being implemented led to a “tyranny of the majority”. This claim was rejected by the tribunal but invited the question of how else the league might adopt and enforce its rules. Perhaps by decree on the part of its champions?"
Tyranny of the majority, cartel, established elite are all narratives peddled by the club and, subsequently, their fanbase online like Boris.
Its a load of shiite and you know it. What makes it funnier is the owner of your club is the epitome of an 'established elite or a cartel.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who wrote that first paragraph? As that wasn’t rejected by the tribunal, they agreed that the premier league abused a dominant position.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/oct/09/manchester-city-rage-against-machine-premier-league
Where are you getting the tribunal didn't reject the tyranny of majority claim?
posted on 9/10/24
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 minute ago
Melts may correct me here but from what I can gather, details of the tribunal’s statement can only be released if both parties agree.
City are quite happy to have full disclosure but the PL are cherry picking what’s being released.
I wonder why?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The tribunals released, spent about three hours yesterday reading it! For some reason, the PL sat on it for two weeks….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Premier League delay tactics
The governance is shocking.
posted on 9/10/24
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 54 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 32 seconds ago
I didn’t realise John Henry was a member of a Royal Family, obvious really with a name like Henry I suppose.
I admire his down to earth relationship with his subjects
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The man bleating about an established elite or cartel holds the titles of Vice President, Dep' PM and is a billionaire senior royal of the ruling family of a nation state
How are Liverpool's owners part of an established elite when they bought LFC (2010) after Mansour bought City (2008)?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of interest, how do you know how Pep and Mansour address each other other?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You quoted it on Cleverson's article
Out of interest how are FSG part of the established elite if they bought the club after Mansour bought City?
What did they have to do to gain entry to this secretive shadowy cabal?
posted on 9/10/24
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
"Part of City’s challenge in the APT case saw them take aim at the voting structure of the league, arguing that votes that led to rules being implemented led to a “tyranny of the majority”. This claim was rejected by the tribunal but invited the question of how else the league might adopt and enforce its rules. Perhaps by decree on the part of its champions?"
Tyranny of the majority, cartel, established elite are all narratives peddled by the club and, subsequently, their fanbase online like Boris.
Its a load of shiite and you know it. What makes it funnier is the owner of your club is the epitome of an 'established elite or a cartel.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who wrote that first paragraph? As that wasn’t rejected by the tribunal, they agreed that the premier league abused a dominant position.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/oct/09/manchester-city-rage-against-machine-premier-league
Where are you getting the tribunal didn't reject the tyranny of majority claim?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it’s not a claim, it was part of city’s argument for the question of did the PL abuse their position to dominance, to which the tribunal said yes.
There seems to be so many journalists reporting on this that clearly either haven’t read or understood the judgment and that’s on both sides of the argument too.
posted on 9/10/24
*Position of dominance
posted on 9/10/24
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 54 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 32 seconds ago
I didn’t realise John Henry was a member of a Royal Family, obvious really with a name like Henry I suppose.
I admire his down to earth relationship with his subjects
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The man bleating about an established elite or cartel holds the titles of Vice President, Dep' PM and is a billionaire senior royal of the ruling family of a nation state
How are Liverpool's owners part of an established elite when they bought LFC (2010) after Mansour bought City (2008)?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of interest, how do you know how Pep and Mansour address each other other?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You quoted it on Cleverson's article
Out of interest how are FSG part of the established elite if they bought the club after Mansour bought City?
What did they have to do to gain entry to this secretive shadowy cabal?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly, I haven't got a clue how Pep and HRH address each other in private.
Secondly, I didn't invent the term 'Established Elite', it was more of a media creation.
Hope that helps.
Page 13 of 16
12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16