Sorry, didn't read the whole thread of that conversation
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 40 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 29 minutes ago
There is nothing likable about Trump or Vance. They are both lying sack of sh!ts on a scale I have never seen before and are both disgusting, gross and utterly vile human beings.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Always had you down as a Republican tbh
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if I was my opinion would still be the same.
I don't understand where this view comes from that Trump is/was somehow peaceful.
He decided to pull out of Afghanistan and set a date that meant little transition could take place which allowed the Taliban to assume power once again.
He's already said he won't help Ukraine, and urged Israel to "finish the job".
So I suppose he's peaceful in the sense that wars are over quickly but that's because he's content to leave people to their fate.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 10 minutes ago
"I think we're due a mass extinction event soon."
Isn't that what they told us Covid would be?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm thinking more catastrophic climate collapse, potentially exacerbated by nuclear fallout.
On your "all politicians lie", of course they do, merely as a matter of course. A bit like in the haggling scene in Life of Brian.
But again, that's just like equating ingrowing toenails and ebola. Not all lies are the same. There are malicious lies (and even half-truths for what it's worth) that are clearly intended to stoke hatred and discrimination against minorities.
I don't know what it is with people who their entire lives have based a lot of the rules by which they live on notions of 'common decency' but for whom any such red lines have simply ceased to exist just because it's someone from 'their team' who's overstepped all those limits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There’s plenty of possibilities between a nuclear war, super volcanos, climate change etc
The only reason they're not allowed to vote is that they're not considered mature enough to make such important decisions.
Just a pity this wasn’t applied to those that voted for Brexit
The voting age issue is a funny when with the mental conservatives. A 16 year old can be raaaaped, told they must give birth to this child, work and provide for this child and pay taxes, but they cannot have a voice on the politics of their country.
Land of the free.
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Trump is an idiot
but at least he'll put an end to the War in Ukraine & tackle the ludicrous mass immigration of illegals into the US
hopefully he'll begin the cultural fight back against the neo-marxist ultra social liberalism .... wokeism
Anyhow he's much better than the horrific Democrats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won't end the war
Also, why is it everybody thinks the immigration thing is such a big deal? Seems all those living 2000 miles from the border have a problem with it while those close to the border(me) don't care and spend time along said border without any issues at all.
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 18 minutes ago
I don't understand where this view comes from that Trump is/was somehow peaceful.
He decided to pull out of Afghanistan and set a date that meant little transition could take place which allowed the Taliban to assume power once again.
He's already said he won't help Ukraine, and urged Israel to "finish the job".
So I suppose he's peaceful in the sense that wars are over quickly but that's because he's content to leave people to their fate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s utter horseshiiiit.
He also unilaterally decided to move the US Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, dropped record weights of munitions on Syria and Afghanistan (verifiably more in a single year than supposed warmonger-in-chief Obama ever did), and escalated US military involvement in each of Yemen, Somalia, and Pakistan.
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Trump is an idiot
but at least he'll put an end to the War in Ukraine & tackle the ludicrous mass immigration of illegals into the US
hopefully he'll begin the cultural fight back against the neo-marxist ultra social liberalism .... wokeism
Anyhow he's much better than the horrific Democrats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won't end the war
Also, why is it everybody thinks the immigration thing is such a big deal? Seems all those living 2000 miles from the border have a problem with it while those close to the border(me) don't care and spend time along said border without any issues at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The answer you’re looking for is racism.
comment by Calafiori knows how to Partey (U21076)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 6 minutes ago
Sorry, just to add to the above, I'd also bring down the voting age to 16, maybe even 14. After all, millions and millions of adults already approach voting with about as much thought and common sense as a kid would put into it anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If JD Vance has his ways all kids will be allowed a vote, with parents being allowed to control their votes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If this happens then the Republicans will be in power for ever more. Vance is fully aware that the backward, jesus loving Reps bang out twice as many children as the far smarter Dems.
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unl... (U17054)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Trump is an idiot
but at least he'll put an end to the War in Ukraine & tackle the ludicrous mass immigration of illegals into the US
hopefully he'll begin the cultural fight back against the neo-marxist ultra social liberalism .... wokeism
Anyhow he's much better than the horrific Democrats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won't end the war
Also, why is it everybody thinks the immigration thing is such a big deal? Seems all those living 2000 miles from the border have a problem with it while those close to the border(me) don't care and spend time along said border without any issues at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The answer you’re looking for is racism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We voted Brexit for the same reason
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 5 hours, 8 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 22 minutes ago
I don't agree with RFK Jr on Israel.
But on alot of things, like Ukraine & Pharma he's spot on the money
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Care to expand on the pharma bit?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
here is his interview with Lex Fridman explaining just this point
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9ss-fzklLE
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
Nor did he reprise his suggestion that childless people should have less political representation than voters with kids.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You know, as a father of two that's actually an idea I can get on board with.
I would actually only get 1.5 votes right now, as my eldest is already of voting age, and my youngest's vote would have to be split between my partner and myself. But yeah, why should the interests of that younger person not be represented at the polling booth?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because a lot of people would be using that voting power to represent themselves, not the child.
Gen Z / Gen Alpha are very liberal... You think that would show at the polls?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You see, I think that's the wrong approach.
You're looking at it (as is Vance, undoubtably) purely from the perspective of which side would benefit more from such a policy.
I'm looking at it from the perspective of children being human beings who are also in this world and who stand to win or lose as much as adults from the outcome of an election.
The only reason they're not allowed to vote is that they're not considered mature enough to make such important decisions. But that doesn't imply in any way that their interests are less important than those of anyone who's of a voting age.
Who knows, perhaps the responsibility of having to proportionally represent children who are not old enough to vote would make some parents think more carefully about the longer-term repercussions of their vote. (Yeah, that's not happening, I know).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The whole idea stinks to me anyway... It plays into the idea that people with children are more invested in the betterment of the world and it's future... There is really no evidence of that bar your own anecdotal evidence.
I'm not having children because, in part, i don't want to further impact the planet by over populating it... That's caring about a future that is not even connected to me.
Also, parents are naturally and understandably protective of their own little bubble. You might decide that your kids would prefer a town without immigrants, so they have a better chance at a job. You might decide they would like the local wildlife park to be turned into houses to give them a better chance on the property ladder. Of course, you'd have zero idea if they really wanted to make those choices.
It's just a bad idea. If they are old enough to make reasoned decisions on their future, then just let them vote.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 3 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 19 minutes ago
https://x.com/strandjunker/status/1846272393725264250?s=61&t=ncpdEcJLIN1zPASIYpgYDA
This is the plan ^^
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No idea who that woman is, but she's got some pretty usable quotes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was hoping that was a metaphor and that she had a decent rack
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
Nor did he reprise his suggestion that childless people should have less political representation than voters with kids.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You know, as a father of two that's actually an idea I can get on board with.
I would actually only get 1.5 votes right now, as my eldest is already of voting age, and my youngest's vote would have to be split between my partner and myself. But yeah, why should the interests of that younger person not be represented at the polling booth?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because a lot of people would be using that voting power to represent themselves, not the child.
Gen Z / Gen Alpha are very liberal... You think that would show at the polls?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You see, I think that's the wrong approach.
You're looking at it (as is Vance, undoubtably) purely from the perspective of which side would benefit more from such a policy.
I'm looking at it from the perspective of children being human beings who are also in this world and who stand to win or lose as much as adults from the outcome of an election.
The only reason they're not allowed to vote is that they're not considered mature enough to make such important decisions. But that doesn't imply in any way that their interests are less important than those of anyone who's of a voting age.
Who knows, perhaps the responsibility of having to proportionally represent children who are not old enough to vote would make some parents think more carefully about the longer-term repercussions of their vote. (Yeah, that's not happening, I know).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The whole idea stinks to me anyway... It plays into the idea that people with children are more invested in the betterment of the world and it's future... There is really no evidence of that bar your own anecdotal evidence.
I'm not having children because, in part, i don't want to further impact the planet by over populating it... That's caring about a future that is not even connected to me.
Also, parents are naturally and understandably protective of their own little bubble. You might decide that your kids would prefer a town without immigrants, so they have a better chance at a job. You might decide they would like the local wildlife park to be turned into houses to give them a better chance on the property ladder. Of course, you'd have zero idea if they really wanted to make those choices.
It's just a bad idea. If they are old enough to make reasoned decisions on their future, then just let them vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said above. Vance knows the reps would gain massively from children having a vote. The average innbred Rep supporter has 4-6 children while the average Dem supporter has 1-3 children.
What about those pesky immigants though?
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
There you go again, trying to equate all politicians as the same.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Ask for specifics to justify these kinds of 'both sides are awful' statements and he has nothing. Well, apart from something about Harris being confused about electric vehicles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Harris claimed unemployment was at it's lowest in history.
CLAIM: “We now have historic low unemployment in America.”
VERDICT: The current rate of unemployment is not at its lowest level in US history and it was lower at one point under Donald Trump.
CLAIM: “In terms of manufacturing… creating almost 800,000 new jobs.”
VERDICT: This claim is somewhat exaggerated. From May to September 2024, the sector lost 44,000 jobs.
As of September 2024, just over 12.9 million people were working in manufacturing - 90,000 more than at the peak under Trump.
CLAIM: ‘Lowest Black unemployment rate in generations’
The Black unemployment rate in August, the most recent month available, was 6.1 percent.
Black unemployment was also low under Trump, which was not “generations” ago. Trump set a record low of 5.3 percent in September 2019 which was later eclipsed by the record low under Biden.
_____________________________________
All politicians lie.
Starmers lied and made excuses, Boris lied and made excuses, Trump and Harris also lie.
Cynical, maybe, but they're all in it for themselves one way or another. Bernie Sanders is the exemption to the rule imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where did you copy-paste those examples from? I suspect that you didn't rigorously research the original quotes attributed to Harris, check them for context, and then check the factual record via neutral sources. The format is very much that of a piece of partisan political content released on social media.
Let's take a look at some of the detail.
“We now have historic low unemployment in America.” Firstly, where does this quote come from? Secondly, there's a difference between saying 'historic low unemployment' and claiming it is specifically 'lowest in history'. It's true to say that unemployment rates under Biden have been low in historic terms, and also true to point out that the current administration has done a great job of rebuilding the economy, including bringing unemployment down, after Trump's handling of the pandemic (mixed messages; calling it a hoax; suggesting bleach instead of masks; hesitating to lock down when there was an opportunity to contain the spread before vaccines were available; providing sporadic encouragement to anti-vax movements) resulted in a much higher spike in unemployment and much deeper economic pain than had been necessary. So I would not call this decontextualised quote a lie on Harris's part. It's a statement she would be able to defend with recourse to objective facts, even if you could contend that it's talking about that factual material in a particularly positive manner.
Earlier you indicated that you agreed with me that the enumerated flaws of Trump are qualitatively different from the flaws of Harris. Then you went away and found some material that you seem to be using to support your initial claim that both sides are (similarly) flawed. Do you not accept that there is a qualitative difference between the kind of statement that a 'normal' politician makes that maybe puts the desired spin on things but is based in reality and utter, egregious lies? If Harris says the above about the economy, we can have a debate with her about it: challenge her with qualifications and different interpretations of the data. If Vance says Trump saved Obamacare, or Trump claims that the Biden administration is withholding aid to hurricane victims, or that FEMA will make a payment of $750 and then confiscate your land - that's a very different thing. It's abject and knowing dishonesty. It's the opposite of the truth, not something that can be debated. And it's far more corrosive to democracy, because the shamelessness quickly catches on, becomes normalised, is no longer disqualifying, and eventually there is no longer a fair discussion of different ideas based on objective reality.
(And Boris Johnson went somewhat down this path, and differs from Tory politicians who came before him in this respect, ushering in a post-truth world in the UK.)
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Trump is an idiot
but at least he'll put an end to the War in Ukraine & tackle the ludicrous mass immigration of illegals into the US
hopefully he'll begin the cultural fight back against the neo-marxist ultra social liberalism .... wokeism
Anyhow he's much better than the horrific Democrats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won't end the war
Also, why is it everybody thinks the immigration thing is such a big deal? Seems all those living 2000 miles from the border have a problem with it while those close to the border(me) don't care and spend time along said border without any issues at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure there was an Arizona sherrif who was quite upset about it. Kari lake? She lives in your state too.
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Trump is an idiot
but at least he'll put an end to the War in Ukraine & tackle the ludicrous mass immigration of illegals into the US
hopefully he'll begin the cultural fight back against the neo-marxist ultra social liberalism .... wokeism
Anyhow he's much better than the horrific Democrats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won't end the war
Also, why is it everybody thinks the immigration thing is such a big deal? Seems all those living 2000 miles from the border have a problem with it while those close to the border(me) don't care and spend time along said border without any issues at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure there was an Arizona sherrif who was quite upset about it. Kari lake? She lives in your state too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kari lake is certifiably insane. Almost equal to trump.
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 18 minutes ago
I don't understand where this view comes from that Trump is/was somehow peaceful.
He decided to pull out of Afghanistan and set a date that meant little transition could take place which allowed the Taliban to assume power once again.
He's already said he won't help Ukraine, and urged Israel to "finish the job".
So I suppose he's peaceful in the sense that wars are over quickly but that's because he's content to leave people to their fate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s utter horseshiiiit.
He also unilaterally decided to move the US Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, dropped record weights of munitions on Syria and Afghanistan (verifiably more in a single year than supposed warmonger-in-chief Obama ever did), and escalated US military involvement in each of Yemen, Somalia, and Pakistan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not forgetting that he challenged military doctrine that strategic nuclear weapons should only be deployed in retaliation (i.e. their sole purpose being a deterrent). If we have them, why can't we use them? - he asked. And today he's more confused, more thin skinned and has far greater sense of grievance than he did in 2016.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 18 minutes ago
I don't understand where this view comes from that Trump is/was somehow peaceful.
He decided to pull out of Afghanistan and set a date that meant little transition could take place which allowed the Taliban to assume power once again.
He's already said he won't help Ukraine, and urged Israel to "finish the job".
So I suppose he's peaceful in the sense that wars are over quickly but that's because he's content to leave people to their fate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s utter horseshiiiit.
He also unilaterally decided to move the US Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, dropped record weights of munitions on Syria and Afghanistan (verifiably more in a single year than supposed warmonger-in-chief Obama ever did), and escalated US military involvement in each of Yemen, Somalia, and Pakistan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not forgetting that he challenged military doctrine that strategic nuclear weapons should only be deployed in retaliation (i.e. their sole purpose being a deterrent). If we have them, why can't we use them? - he asked. And today he's more confused, more thin skinned and has far greater sense of grievance than he did in 2016.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And if he loses to a black woman....well who knows what he's capable of
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 43 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Trump is an idiot
but at least he'll put an end to the War in Ukraine & tackle the ludicrous mass immigration of illegals into the US
hopefully he'll begin the cultural fight back against the neo-marxist ultra social liberalism .... wokeism
Anyhow he's much better than the horrific Democrats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won't end the war
Also, why is it everybody thinks the immigration thing is such a big deal? Seems all those living 2000 miles from the border have a problem with it while those close to the border(me) don't care and spend time along said border without any issues at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure there was an Arizona sherrif who was quite upset about it. Kari lake? She lives in your state too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Coz she is a mentalist as well.
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 43 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Trump is an idiot
but at least he'll put an end to the War in Ukraine & tackle the ludicrous mass immigration of illegals into the US
hopefully he'll begin the cultural fight back against the neo-marxist ultra social liberalism .... wokeism
Anyhow he's much better than the horrific Democrats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won't end the war
Also, why is it everybody thinks the immigration thing is such a big deal? Seems all those living 2000 miles from the border have a problem with it while those close to the border(me) don't care and spend time along said border without any issues at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure there was an Arizona sherrif who was quite upset about it. Kari lake? She lives in your state too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Coz she is a mentalist as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
She's not alone FFS. WTF?
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 43 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Trump is an idiot
but at least he'll put an end to the War in Ukraine & tackle the ludicrous mass immigration of illegals into the US
hopefully he'll begin the cultural fight back against the neo-marxist ultra social liberalism .... wokeism
Anyhow he's much better than the horrific Democrats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won't end the war
Also, why is it everybody thinks the immigration thing is such a big deal? Seems all those living 2000 miles from the border have a problem with it while those close to the border(me) don't care and spend time along said border without any issues at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure there was an Arizona sherrif who was quite upset about it. Kari lake? She lives in your state too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Coz she is a mentalist as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
She's not alone FFS. WTF?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Take it from someone living close by, trekking washes and terrain along the border and someone with plenty of Mexican friends here. The border issue is nowhere near the issue people want you to believe, it is a problem mostly pedaled by those living nowhere near the border who have rarely, if ever, left their county, never mind their state.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
There you go again, trying to equate all politicians as the same.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Ask for specifics to justify these kinds of 'both sides are awful' statements and he has nothing. Well, apart from something about Harris being confused about electric vehicles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Harris claimed unemployment was at it's lowest in history.
CLAIM: “We now have historic low unemployment in America.”
VERDICT: The current rate of unemployment is not at its lowest level in US history and it was lower at one point under Donald Trump.
CLAIM: “In terms of manufacturing… creating almost 800,000 new jobs.”
VERDICT: This claim is somewhat exaggerated. From May to September 2024, the sector lost 44,000 jobs.
As of September 2024, just over 12.9 million people were working in manufacturing - 90,000 more than at the peak under Trump.
CLAIM: ‘Lowest Black unemployment rate in generations’
The Black unemployment rate in August, the most recent month available, was 6.1 percent.
Black unemployment was also low under Trump, which was not “generations” ago. Trump set a record low of 5.3 percent in September 2019 which was later eclipsed by the record low under Biden.
_____________________________________
All politicians lie.
Starmers lied and made excuses, Boris lied and made excuses, Trump and Harris also lie.
Cynical, maybe, but they're all in it for themselves one way or another. Bernie Sanders is the exemption to the rule imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where did you copy-paste those examples from? I suspect that you didn't rigorously research the original quotes attributed to Harris, check them for context, and then check the factual record via neutral sources. The format is very much that of a piece of partisan political content released on social media.
Let's take a look at some of the detail.
“We now have historic low unemployment in America.” Firstly, where does this quote come from? Secondly, there's a difference between saying 'historic low unemployment' and claiming it is specifically 'lowest in history'. It's true to say that unemployment rates under Biden have been low in historic terms, and also true to point out that the current administration has done a great job of rebuilding the economy, including bringing unemployment down, after Trump's handling of the pandemic (mixed messages; calling it a hoax; suggesting bleach instead of masks; hesitating to lock down when there was an opportunity to contain the spread before vaccines were available; providing sporadic encouragement to anti-vax movements) resulted in a much higher spike in unemployment and much deeper economic pain than had been necessary. So I would not call this decontextualised quote a lie on Harris's part. It's a statement she would be able to defend with recourse to objective facts, even if you could contend that it's talking about that factual material in a particularly positive manner.
Earlier you indicated that you agreed with me that the enumerated flaws of Trump are qualitatively different from the flaws of Harris. Then you went away and found some material that you seem to be using to support your initial claim that both sides are (similarly) flawed. Do you not accept that there is a qualitative difference between the kind of statement that a 'normal' politician makes that maybe puts the desired spin on things but is based in reality and utter, egregious lies? If Harris says the above about the economy, we can have a debate with her about it: challenge her with qualifications and different interpretations of the data. If Vance says Trump saved Obamacare, or Trump claims that the Biden administration is withholding aid to hurricane victims, or that FEMA will make a payment of $750 and then confiscate your land - that's a very different thing. It's abject and knowing dishonesty. It's the opposite of the truth, not something that can be debated. And it's far more corrosive to democracy, because the shamelessness quickly catches on, becomes normalised, is no longer disqualifying, and eventually there is no longer a fair discussion of different ideas based on objective reality.
(And Boris Johnson went somewhat down this path, and differs from Tory politicians who came before him in this respect, ushering in a post-truth world in the UK.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Excellent post.
Sign in if you want to comment
Trump headed to the White House?
Page 7 of 10
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
posted on 16/10/24
Sorry, didn't read the whole thread of that conversation
posted on 16/10/24
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 40 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 29 minutes ago
There is nothing likable about Trump or Vance. They are both lying sack of sh!ts on a scale I have never seen before and are both disgusting, gross and utterly vile human beings.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Always had you down as a Republican tbh
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if I was my opinion would still be the same.
posted on 16/10/24
I don't understand where this view comes from that Trump is/was somehow peaceful.
He decided to pull out of Afghanistan and set a date that meant little transition could take place which allowed the Taliban to assume power once again.
He's already said he won't help Ukraine, and urged Israel to "finish the job".
So I suppose he's peaceful in the sense that wars are over quickly but that's because he's content to leave people to their fate.
posted on 16/10/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 10 minutes ago
"I think we're due a mass extinction event soon."
Isn't that what they told us Covid would be?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm thinking more catastrophic climate collapse, potentially exacerbated by nuclear fallout.
On your "all politicians lie", of course they do, merely as a matter of course. A bit like in the haggling scene in Life of Brian.
But again, that's just like equating ingrowing toenails and ebola. Not all lies are the same. There are malicious lies (and even half-truths for what it's worth) that are clearly intended to stoke hatred and discrimination against minorities.
I don't know what it is with people who their entire lives have based a lot of the rules by which they live on notions of 'common decency' but for whom any such red lines have simply ceased to exist just because it's someone from 'their team' who's overstepped all those limits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There’s plenty of possibilities between a nuclear war, super volcanos, climate change etc
posted on 16/10/24
The only reason they're not allowed to vote is that they're not considered mature enough to make such important decisions.
Just a pity this wasn’t applied to those that voted for Brexit
posted on 16/10/24
The voting age issue is a funny when with the mental conservatives. A 16 year old can be raaaaped, told they must give birth to this child, work and provide for this child and pay taxes, but they cannot have a voice on the politics of their country.
Land of the free.
posted on 16/10/24
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Trump is an idiot
but at least he'll put an end to the War in Ukraine & tackle the ludicrous mass immigration of illegals into the US
hopefully he'll begin the cultural fight back against the neo-marxist ultra social liberalism .... wokeism
Anyhow he's much better than the horrific Democrats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won't end the war
Also, why is it everybody thinks the immigration thing is such a big deal? Seems all those living 2000 miles from the border have a problem with it while those close to the border(me) don't care and spend time along said border without any issues at all.
posted on 16/10/24
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 18 minutes ago
I don't understand where this view comes from that Trump is/was somehow peaceful.
He decided to pull out of Afghanistan and set a date that meant little transition could take place which allowed the Taliban to assume power once again.
He's already said he won't help Ukraine, and urged Israel to "finish the job".
So I suppose he's peaceful in the sense that wars are over quickly but that's because he's content to leave people to their fate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s utter horseshiiiit.
He also unilaterally decided to move the US Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, dropped record weights of munitions on Syria and Afghanistan (verifiably more in a single year than supposed warmonger-in-chief Obama ever did), and escalated US military involvement in each of Yemen, Somalia, and Pakistan.
posted on 16/10/24
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Trump is an idiot
but at least he'll put an end to the War in Ukraine & tackle the ludicrous mass immigration of illegals into the US
hopefully he'll begin the cultural fight back against the neo-marxist ultra social liberalism .... wokeism
Anyhow he's much better than the horrific Democrats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won't end the war
Also, why is it everybody thinks the immigration thing is such a big deal? Seems all those living 2000 miles from the border have a problem with it while those close to the border(me) don't care and spend time along said border without any issues at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The answer you’re looking for is racism.
posted on 16/10/24
comment by Calafiori knows how to Partey (U21076)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 6 minutes ago
Sorry, just to add to the above, I'd also bring down the voting age to 16, maybe even 14. After all, millions and millions of adults already approach voting with about as much thought and common sense as a kid would put into it anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If JD Vance has his ways all kids will be allowed a vote, with parents being allowed to control their votes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If this happens then the Republicans will be in power for ever more. Vance is fully aware that the backward, jesus loving Reps bang out twice as many children as the far smarter Dems.
posted on 16/10/24
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unl... (U17054)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Trump is an idiot
but at least he'll put an end to the War in Ukraine & tackle the ludicrous mass immigration of illegals into the US
hopefully he'll begin the cultural fight back against the neo-marxist ultra social liberalism .... wokeism
Anyhow he's much better than the horrific Democrats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won't end the war
Also, why is it everybody thinks the immigration thing is such a big deal? Seems all those living 2000 miles from the border have a problem with it while those close to the border(me) don't care and spend time along said border without any issues at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The answer you’re looking for is racism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We voted Brexit for the same reason
posted on 16/10/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 5 hours, 8 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 22 minutes ago
I don't agree with RFK Jr on Israel.
But on alot of things, like Ukraine & Pharma he's spot on the money
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Care to expand on the pharma bit?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
here is his interview with Lex Fridman explaining just this point
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9ss-fzklLE
posted on 16/10/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
Nor did he reprise his suggestion that childless people should have less political representation than voters with kids.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You know, as a father of two that's actually an idea I can get on board with.
I would actually only get 1.5 votes right now, as my eldest is already of voting age, and my youngest's vote would have to be split between my partner and myself. But yeah, why should the interests of that younger person not be represented at the polling booth?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because a lot of people would be using that voting power to represent themselves, not the child.
Gen Z / Gen Alpha are very liberal... You think that would show at the polls?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You see, I think that's the wrong approach.
You're looking at it (as is Vance, undoubtably) purely from the perspective of which side would benefit more from such a policy.
I'm looking at it from the perspective of children being human beings who are also in this world and who stand to win or lose as much as adults from the outcome of an election.
The only reason they're not allowed to vote is that they're not considered mature enough to make such important decisions. But that doesn't imply in any way that their interests are less important than those of anyone who's of a voting age.
Who knows, perhaps the responsibility of having to proportionally represent children who are not old enough to vote would make some parents think more carefully about the longer-term repercussions of their vote. (Yeah, that's not happening, I know).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The whole idea stinks to me anyway... It plays into the idea that people with children are more invested in the betterment of the world and it's future... There is really no evidence of that bar your own anecdotal evidence.
I'm not having children because, in part, i don't want to further impact the planet by over populating it... That's caring about a future that is not even connected to me.
Also, parents are naturally and understandably protective of their own little bubble. You might decide that your kids would prefer a town without immigrants, so they have a better chance at a job. You might decide they would like the local wildlife park to be turned into houses to give them a better chance on the property ladder. Of course, you'd have zero idea if they really wanted to make those choices.
It's just a bad idea. If they are old enough to make reasoned decisions on their future, then just let them vote.
posted on 16/10/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 3 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 19 minutes ago
https://x.com/strandjunker/status/1846272393725264250?s=61&t=ncpdEcJLIN1zPASIYpgYDA
This is the plan ^^
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No idea who that woman is, but she's got some pretty usable quotes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was hoping that was a metaphor and that she had a decent rack
posted on 16/10/24
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
Nor did he reprise his suggestion that childless people should have less political representation than voters with kids.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You know, as a father of two that's actually an idea I can get on board with.
I would actually only get 1.5 votes right now, as my eldest is already of voting age, and my youngest's vote would have to be split between my partner and myself. But yeah, why should the interests of that younger person not be represented at the polling booth?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because a lot of people would be using that voting power to represent themselves, not the child.
Gen Z / Gen Alpha are very liberal... You think that would show at the polls?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You see, I think that's the wrong approach.
You're looking at it (as is Vance, undoubtably) purely from the perspective of which side would benefit more from such a policy.
I'm looking at it from the perspective of children being human beings who are also in this world and who stand to win or lose as much as adults from the outcome of an election.
The only reason they're not allowed to vote is that they're not considered mature enough to make such important decisions. But that doesn't imply in any way that their interests are less important than those of anyone who's of a voting age.
Who knows, perhaps the responsibility of having to proportionally represent children who are not old enough to vote would make some parents think more carefully about the longer-term repercussions of their vote. (Yeah, that's not happening, I know).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The whole idea stinks to me anyway... It plays into the idea that people with children are more invested in the betterment of the world and it's future... There is really no evidence of that bar your own anecdotal evidence.
I'm not having children because, in part, i don't want to further impact the planet by over populating it... That's caring about a future that is not even connected to me.
Also, parents are naturally and understandably protective of their own little bubble. You might decide that your kids would prefer a town without immigrants, so they have a better chance at a job. You might decide they would like the local wildlife park to be turned into houses to give them a better chance on the property ladder. Of course, you'd have zero idea if they really wanted to make those choices.
It's just a bad idea. If they are old enough to make reasoned decisions on their future, then just let them vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said above. Vance knows the reps would gain massively from children having a vote. The average innbred Rep supporter has 4-6 children while the average Dem supporter has 1-3 children.
posted on 16/10/24
What about those pesky immigants though?
posted on 16/10/24
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
There you go again, trying to equate all politicians as the same.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Ask for specifics to justify these kinds of 'both sides are awful' statements and he has nothing. Well, apart from something about Harris being confused about electric vehicles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Harris claimed unemployment was at it's lowest in history.
CLAIM: “We now have historic low unemployment in America.”
VERDICT: The current rate of unemployment is not at its lowest level in US history and it was lower at one point under Donald Trump.
CLAIM: “In terms of manufacturing… creating almost 800,000 new jobs.”
VERDICT: This claim is somewhat exaggerated. From May to September 2024, the sector lost 44,000 jobs.
As of September 2024, just over 12.9 million people were working in manufacturing - 90,000 more than at the peak under Trump.
CLAIM: ‘Lowest Black unemployment rate in generations’
The Black unemployment rate in August, the most recent month available, was 6.1 percent.
Black unemployment was also low under Trump, which was not “generations” ago. Trump set a record low of 5.3 percent in September 2019 which was later eclipsed by the record low under Biden.
_____________________________________
All politicians lie.
Starmers lied and made excuses, Boris lied and made excuses, Trump and Harris also lie.
Cynical, maybe, but they're all in it for themselves one way or another. Bernie Sanders is the exemption to the rule imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where did you copy-paste those examples from? I suspect that you didn't rigorously research the original quotes attributed to Harris, check them for context, and then check the factual record via neutral sources. The format is very much that of a piece of partisan political content released on social media.
Let's take a look at some of the detail.
“We now have historic low unemployment in America.” Firstly, where does this quote come from? Secondly, there's a difference between saying 'historic low unemployment' and claiming it is specifically 'lowest in history'. It's true to say that unemployment rates under Biden have been low in historic terms, and also true to point out that the current administration has done a great job of rebuilding the economy, including bringing unemployment down, after Trump's handling of the pandemic (mixed messages; calling it a hoax; suggesting bleach instead of masks; hesitating to lock down when there was an opportunity to contain the spread before vaccines were available; providing sporadic encouragement to anti-vax movements) resulted in a much higher spike in unemployment and much deeper economic pain than had been necessary. So I would not call this decontextualised quote a lie on Harris's part. It's a statement she would be able to defend with recourse to objective facts, even if you could contend that it's talking about that factual material in a particularly positive manner.
Earlier you indicated that you agreed with me that the enumerated flaws of Trump are qualitatively different from the flaws of Harris. Then you went away and found some material that you seem to be using to support your initial claim that both sides are (similarly) flawed. Do you not accept that there is a qualitative difference between the kind of statement that a 'normal' politician makes that maybe puts the desired spin on things but is based in reality and utter, egregious lies? If Harris says the above about the economy, we can have a debate with her about it: challenge her with qualifications and different interpretations of the data. If Vance says Trump saved Obamacare, or Trump claims that the Biden administration is withholding aid to hurricane victims, or that FEMA will make a payment of $750 and then confiscate your land - that's a very different thing. It's abject and knowing dishonesty. It's the opposite of the truth, not something that can be debated. And it's far more corrosive to democracy, because the shamelessness quickly catches on, becomes normalised, is no longer disqualifying, and eventually there is no longer a fair discussion of different ideas based on objective reality.
(And Boris Johnson went somewhat down this path, and differs from Tory politicians who came before him in this respect, ushering in a post-truth world in the UK.)
posted on 16/10/24
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Trump is an idiot
but at least he'll put an end to the War in Ukraine & tackle the ludicrous mass immigration of illegals into the US
hopefully he'll begin the cultural fight back against the neo-marxist ultra social liberalism .... wokeism
Anyhow he's much better than the horrific Democrats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won't end the war
Also, why is it everybody thinks the immigration thing is such a big deal? Seems all those living 2000 miles from the border have a problem with it while those close to the border(me) don't care and spend time along said border without any issues at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure there was an Arizona sherrif who was quite upset about it. Kari lake? She lives in your state too.
posted on 16/10/24
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Trump is an idiot
but at least he'll put an end to the War in Ukraine & tackle the ludicrous mass immigration of illegals into the US
hopefully he'll begin the cultural fight back against the neo-marxist ultra social liberalism .... wokeism
Anyhow he's much better than the horrific Democrats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won't end the war
Also, why is it everybody thinks the immigration thing is such a big deal? Seems all those living 2000 miles from the border have a problem with it while those close to the border(me) don't care and spend time along said border without any issues at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure there was an Arizona sherrif who was quite upset about it. Kari lake? She lives in your state too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kari lake is certifiably insane. Almost equal to trump.
posted on 16/10/24
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 18 minutes ago
I don't understand where this view comes from that Trump is/was somehow peaceful.
He decided to pull out of Afghanistan and set a date that meant little transition could take place which allowed the Taliban to assume power once again.
He's already said he won't help Ukraine, and urged Israel to "finish the job".
So I suppose he's peaceful in the sense that wars are over quickly but that's because he's content to leave people to their fate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s utter horseshiiiit.
He also unilaterally decided to move the US Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, dropped record weights of munitions on Syria and Afghanistan (verifiably more in a single year than supposed warmonger-in-chief Obama ever did), and escalated US military involvement in each of Yemen, Somalia, and Pakistan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not forgetting that he challenged military doctrine that strategic nuclear weapons should only be deployed in retaliation (i.e. their sole purpose being a deterrent). If we have them, why can't we use them? - he asked. And today he's more confused, more thin skinned and has far greater sense of grievance than he did in 2016.
posted on 16/10/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 18 minutes ago
I don't understand where this view comes from that Trump is/was somehow peaceful.
He decided to pull out of Afghanistan and set a date that meant little transition could take place which allowed the Taliban to assume power once again.
He's already said he won't help Ukraine, and urged Israel to "finish the job".
So I suppose he's peaceful in the sense that wars are over quickly but that's because he's content to leave people to their fate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s utter horseshiiiit.
He also unilaterally decided to move the US Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, dropped record weights of munitions on Syria and Afghanistan (verifiably more in a single year than supposed warmonger-in-chief Obama ever did), and escalated US military involvement in each of Yemen, Somalia, and Pakistan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not forgetting that he challenged military doctrine that strategic nuclear weapons should only be deployed in retaliation (i.e. their sole purpose being a deterrent). If we have them, why can't we use them? - he asked. And today he's more confused, more thin skinned and has far greater sense of grievance than he did in 2016.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And if he loses to a black woman....well who knows what he's capable of
posted on 16/10/24
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 43 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Trump is an idiot
but at least he'll put an end to the War in Ukraine & tackle the ludicrous mass immigration of illegals into the US
hopefully he'll begin the cultural fight back against the neo-marxist ultra social liberalism .... wokeism
Anyhow he's much better than the horrific Democrats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won't end the war
Also, why is it everybody thinks the immigration thing is such a big deal? Seems all those living 2000 miles from the border have a problem with it while those close to the border(me) don't care and spend time along said border without any issues at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure there was an Arizona sherrif who was quite upset about it. Kari lake? She lives in your state too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Coz she is a mentalist as well.
posted on 16/10/24
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 43 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Trump is an idiot
but at least he'll put an end to the War in Ukraine & tackle the ludicrous mass immigration of illegals into the US
hopefully he'll begin the cultural fight back against the neo-marxist ultra social liberalism .... wokeism
Anyhow he's much better than the horrific Democrats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won't end the war
Also, why is it everybody thinks the immigration thing is such a big deal? Seems all those living 2000 miles from the border have a problem with it while those close to the border(me) don't care and spend time along said border without any issues at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure there was an Arizona sherrif who was quite upset about it. Kari lake? She lives in your state too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Coz she is a mentalist as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
She's not alone FFS. WTF?
posted on 16/10/24
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 43 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Trump is an idiot
but at least he'll put an end to the War in Ukraine & tackle the ludicrous mass immigration of illegals into the US
hopefully he'll begin the cultural fight back against the neo-marxist ultra social liberalism .... wokeism
Anyhow he's much better than the horrific Democrats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won't end the war
Also, why is it everybody thinks the immigration thing is such a big deal? Seems all those living 2000 miles from the border have a problem with it while those close to the border(me) don't care and spend time along said border without any issues at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure there was an Arizona sherrif who was quite upset about it. Kari lake? She lives in your state too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Coz she is a mentalist as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
She's not alone FFS. WTF?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Take it from someone living close by, trekking washes and terrain along the border and someone with plenty of Mexican friends here. The border issue is nowhere near the issue people want you to believe, it is a problem mostly pedaled by those living nowhere near the border who have rarely, if ever, left their county, never mind their state.
posted on 16/10/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
There you go again, trying to equate all politicians as the same.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Ask for specifics to justify these kinds of 'both sides are awful' statements and he has nothing. Well, apart from something about Harris being confused about electric vehicles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Harris claimed unemployment was at it's lowest in history.
CLAIM: “We now have historic low unemployment in America.”
VERDICT: The current rate of unemployment is not at its lowest level in US history and it was lower at one point under Donald Trump.
CLAIM: “In terms of manufacturing… creating almost 800,000 new jobs.”
VERDICT: This claim is somewhat exaggerated. From May to September 2024, the sector lost 44,000 jobs.
As of September 2024, just over 12.9 million people were working in manufacturing - 90,000 more than at the peak under Trump.
CLAIM: ‘Lowest Black unemployment rate in generations’
The Black unemployment rate in August, the most recent month available, was 6.1 percent.
Black unemployment was also low under Trump, which was not “generations” ago. Trump set a record low of 5.3 percent in September 2019 which was later eclipsed by the record low under Biden.
_____________________________________
All politicians lie.
Starmers lied and made excuses, Boris lied and made excuses, Trump and Harris also lie.
Cynical, maybe, but they're all in it for themselves one way or another. Bernie Sanders is the exemption to the rule imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where did you copy-paste those examples from? I suspect that you didn't rigorously research the original quotes attributed to Harris, check them for context, and then check the factual record via neutral sources. The format is very much that of a piece of partisan political content released on social media.
Let's take a look at some of the detail.
“We now have historic low unemployment in America.” Firstly, where does this quote come from? Secondly, there's a difference between saying 'historic low unemployment' and claiming it is specifically 'lowest in history'. It's true to say that unemployment rates under Biden have been low in historic terms, and also true to point out that the current administration has done a great job of rebuilding the economy, including bringing unemployment down, after Trump's handling of the pandemic (mixed messages; calling it a hoax; suggesting bleach instead of masks; hesitating to lock down when there was an opportunity to contain the spread before vaccines were available; providing sporadic encouragement to anti-vax movements) resulted in a much higher spike in unemployment and much deeper economic pain than had been necessary. So I would not call this decontextualised quote a lie on Harris's part. It's a statement she would be able to defend with recourse to objective facts, even if you could contend that it's talking about that factual material in a particularly positive manner.
Earlier you indicated that you agreed with me that the enumerated flaws of Trump are qualitatively different from the flaws of Harris. Then you went away and found some material that you seem to be using to support your initial claim that both sides are (similarly) flawed. Do you not accept that there is a qualitative difference between the kind of statement that a 'normal' politician makes that maybe puts the desired spin on things but is based in reality and utter, egregious lies? If Harris says the above about the economy, we can have a debate with her about it: challenge her with qualifications and different interpretations of the data. If Vance says Trump saved Obamacare, or Trump claims that the Biden administration is withholding aid to hurricane victims, or that FEMA will make a payment of $750 and then confiscate your land - that's a very different thing. It's abject and knowing dishonesty. It's the opposite of the truth, not something that can be debated. And it's far more corrosive to democracy, because the shamelessness quickly catches on, becomes normalised, is no longer disqualifying, and eventually there is no longer a fair discussion of different ideas based on objective reality.
(And Boris Johnson went somewhat down this path, and differs from Tory politicians who came before him in this respect, ushering in a post-truth world in the UK.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Excellent post.
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