comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 18 minutes ago
That big Pharma supress cures for disease to maintain long term profits from medications they manufacture & have under patent
It's big business & it's market is sick people.
Better for them & profits to have more sick people or people who are permanently medicated on something or another. especially medicines they hold the patents for
--------------------------
I know from experience that there are some fairly nefarious individuals heading up pharma companies, and they absolutely do not always have patient's interests at heart.
This particular conspiracy theory however, is entirely illogical and makes no sense whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sorry, but what part of that makes no sense or is illogical?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, in fairness it depends what Peks meant.
Do they direct funding and attention to areas which are more profitable? Absolutely.
Would their research teams discover a cure for cancer, only for some big execs in suits to come along and tell them to bury it? Absolutely not.
Not sure what Peks meant, but there are a number of people who genuinely seem to believe the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody can be sure what peks meant, because he likely doesn't even know himself.
His original comment was a ringing endorsement of RFK Jr after someone mentioned the latter's crackpot antivaxx conspiracy theories.
His argument that conspiracy theories aren't really necessary to explain how big pharma works is the one point that we can probably all agree upon, but there's no understanding how he seems to have needed RFK Jr to open his eyes to this.
The irony in all this is that peks would in all likelihood have been dead for many years if it hadn't been for universal public healthcare and if his own medical condition hadn't been extremely profitable for the medical-pharmaceutical complex.
Would their research teams discover a cure for cancer, only for some big execs in suits to come along and tell them to bury it? Absolutely not.
======
Even if it meant going out of business? And drugs or treatments that had cost billions to make and billions to distribute, providing thousands of jobs across the world to suddenly become redundant overnight?
If you could find a cure for say, diabetes, then I would wager about three quarters of pharma would be filing for bankruptcy within months.
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 25 minutes ago
Would their research teams discover a cure for cancer, only for some big execs in suits to come along and tell them to bury it? Absolutely not.
======
Even if it meant going out of business? And drugs or treatments that had cost billions to make and billions to distribute, providing thousands of jobs across the world to suddenly become redundant overnight?
If you could find a cure for say, diabetes, then I would wager about three quarters of pharma would be filing for bankruptcy within months.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is the company that made the breakthrough would be absolutely minted, as it would hold the patent for 25 years and sales would likely dwarf all the other products the company marketed for that particular disease.
Shareholder dividends would be through the roof and the execs would be able to award themselves absolutely mammoth bonuses.
So yeah, there absolutely would be an incentive for them to market it.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 hours, 3 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 25 minutes ago
Would their research teams discover a cure for cancer, only for some big execs in suits to come along and tell them to bury it? Absolutely not.
======
Even if it meant going out of business? And drugs or treatments that had cost billions to make and billions to distribute, providing thousands of jobs across the world to suddenly become redundant overnight?
If you could find a cure for say, diabetes, then I would wager about three quarters of pharma would be filing for bankruptcy within months.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is the company that made the breakthrough would be absolutely minted, as it would hold the patent for 25 years and sales would likely dwarf all the other products the company marketed for that particular disease.
Shareholder dividends would be through the roof and the execs would be able to award themselves absolutely mammoth bonuses.
So yeah, there absolutely would be an incentive for them to market it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think that's what would happen. Such a cure would have to be cheap or become cheap soon or be subsidised or something. It would be replacing thousands of other drugs on the shelf which are all bringing in millions or billions on their own. Pharmacies would have less drugs to stock, investors would lose billions on drugs in the pipeline, people have taken out loans and made investments based on such drugs, it would mean less profit by far...
We can agree to disagree, Mamba, but why would the leaders of a pharmaceutical company give a sheet about their competitors or about profits 25 years down the line when the immediate profits for the company (and therefore its shareholders and top executives) would be absolutely massive?
You're telling me they'd sit on the discovery and risk a competitor making the decision they didn't dare make themselves.
It's one thing to get involved in price-fixing and other ways of adulterating competition, but that's only when/because companies don't perceive a massive potential reward of going it on their own.
Offer any company in any sector an almost guaranteed huge advantage over the rest of the field and they'll grab it with both hands. That just the way cutthroat capitalism works.
Yep, what ioag said. The only way it would even be feasible is if there were some back-handed agreement between competing pharma companies to suppress this stuff and I find that incredibly hard to believe. To use the diabetes example, 75% of pharma companies would not go bust if a cure is found. It may impact Novo Nordisk who produce most of the insulin preparations, but even they would be unlikely to suppress it because if a cure exists its only a matter of time before it gets into the hands of a competitor one way or another.
My biggest gripe with this theory though is that people never seem to take into account the sheer scale of people that would need to be in on it. Do you know how many people are involved in the production of a drug in one way or another, including the researchers and scientists themselves who have absolutely no interest in hiding their accomplishments? All of them just keep silent about it? Not a chance.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 22 hours, 5 minutes ago
Mostly the BBc
-------------------------------
Was the claim / verdict structure taken from a BBC article or your own creation?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the BBC article
spot on Tony Benn
https://x.com/JamesMelville/status/1846884546660188627
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 41 minutes ago
Yep, what ioag said. The only way it would even be feasible is if there were some back-handed agreement between competing pharma companies to suppress this stuff and I find that incredibly hard to believe. To use the diabetes example, 75% of pharma companies would not go bust if a cure is found. It may impact Novo Nordisk who produce most of the insulin preparations, but even they would be unlikely to suppress it because if a cure exists its only a matter of time before it gets into the hands of a competitor one way or another.
My biggest gripe with this theory though is that people never seem to take into account the sheer scale of people that would need to be in on it. Do you know how many people are involved in the production of a drug in one way or another, including the researchers and scientists themselves who have absolutely no interest in hiding their accomplishments? All of them just keep silent about it? Not a chance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If all of them stayed silent then we wouldn't even be talking about it, would we? In any case, the research is usually compartmentalised no?. They also have non-disclosure stuff and assassinations and sheet. Also, could take time for stuff to come out too.
I'm just saying I wouldn't dismiss these theories. They carried out the
How many people knew about something like the Tuskegee experiment? Had to involve hundreds if not thousands of people.
And it was still plausibly denied for decades.
Also, most of pharma's business is not cures. It's treating symptoms. A disease like diabetes affects every part of the body and apart from insulin diabetics take all sorts of other medicines. One day it's the eyes, next day the back, legs, knees, headaches outta nowhere, nausea and countless others. Diabetes is also linked to many other diseases, some of which are chronic. Amy diabetics eventually develop other conditions and complications. It weakens the immune system, so patients need a lot of drugs and expensive medical care. When covid comes they get mowed down like a corn field.
@Mamba: It's one thing to completely dismiss a theory and quite another to consider it the most plausible scenario though.
@bloodred, interesting you should mention Novo Nordisk up there. I didn't read it in full detail, but only yesterday I half-read an article about them and if I got the gist of it correctly, they're discontinuing the manufacture of some insulin administration pen with huge repercussions for millions of people who rely on them in resource-poor settings, all because it's become much more profitable to repackage Ozempic as a weight loss drug.
Agreed. Of course I'm not saying it's the most plausible but we live in a world of acute capitalism. They create wars and kill people like ants just to sell arms and control wealth and resources. Wouldn't put it past pharma to do something similar tbh.
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 51 minutes ago
Agreed. Of course I'm not saying it's the most plausible but we live in a world of acute capitalism. They create wars and kill people like ants just to sell arms and control wealth and resources. Wouldn't put it past pharma to do something similar tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont disagree with that. I have little doubt about the indifference that some decision-makers within pharma show towards human life when it comes to making profit. The history of pharma is littered with examples of some downright sinister stuff, and the story ioag just raised about Novo Nordisk is unfortunately the type of thing that's all too common and very little can be done about.
But I draw the line at the 'cure suppression' stuff. Not because I don't think they'd stoop that low, but just on a practical level I don't see how it is feasible. I think people who push that claim (not saying you are) often think of "pharma" as one big conglomerate, rather than consider the dynamic of thousands of competing companies which imo makes it almost impossible.
My biggest gripe with this theory though is that people never seem to take into account the sheer scale of people that would need to be in on it. Do you know how many people are involved in the production of a drug in one way or another, including the researchers and scientists themselves who have absolutely no interest in hiding their accomplishments? All of them just keep silent about it? Not a chance.
———
This is the case with most crack pot conspiracy theories. People simply fail to, or ignore, that sheer impracticalities of what they’re proposing.
I think the psychological studies into conspiracy theorists conclude that many that think this way assume, incorrectly, that the people involved have far more control over the world than they do, and it’s more comforting to assume this than to acknowledge the lack of control and chaos that exists in the world.
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 39 minutes ago
My biggest gripe with this theory though is that people never seem to take into account the sheer scale of people that would need to be in on it. Do you know how many people are involved in the production of a drug in one way or another, including the researchers and scientists themselves who have absolutely no interest in hiding their accomplishments? All of them just keep silent about it? Not a chance.
———
This is the case with most crack pot conspiracy theories. People simply fail to, or ignore, that sheer impracticalities of what they’re proposing.
I think the psychological studies into conspiracy theorists conclude that many that think this way assume, incorrectly, that the people involved have far more control over the world than they do, and it’s more comforting to assume this than to acknowledge the lack of control and chaos that exists in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried to do the math on the COVID conspiracists who were claiming that no ICU and respiratory wards were overflowing/there weren’t ventilator or oxygen shortages/etc. once.
I forget the exact outcome now, but there’d have to have been (very literally) millions of people around the world conspiring to uphold that particular myth
But they still believed it to be true.
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 39 minutes ago
My biggest gripe with this theory though is that people never seem to take into account the sheer scale of people that would need to be in on it. Do you know how many people are involved in the production of a drug in one way or another, including the researchers and scientists themselves who have absolutely no interest in hiding their accomplishments? All of them just keep silent about it? Not a chance.
———
This is the case with most crack pot conspiracy theories. People simply fail to, or ignore, that sheer impracticalities of what they’re proposing.
I think the psychological studies into conspiracy theorists conclude that many that think this way assume, incorrectly, that the people involved have far more control over the world than they do, and it’s more comforting to assume this than to acknowledge the lack of control and chaos that exists in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried to do the math on the COVID conspiracists who were claiming that no ICU and respiratory wards were overflowing/there weren’t ventilator or oxygen shortages/etc. once.
I forget the exact outcome now, but there’d have to have been (very literally) millions of people around the world conspiring to uphold that particular myth
But they still believed it to be true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They’re mental. It’d take millions upon millions of people to all be in collusion across the globe. You only have to go on facking Twitter to see that you can’t get people to agree on anything, let alone something on this scale.
Also, please do not EVER say ‘math’ to me again. Maths or mathematics are the only acceptable words to use.
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 39 minutes ago
My biggest gripe with this theory though is that people never seem to take into account the sheer scale of people that would need to be in on it. Do you know how many people are involved in the production of a drug in one way or another, including the researchers and scientists themselves who have absolutely no interest in hiding their accomplishments? All of them just keep silent about it? Not a chance.
———
This is the case with most crack pot conspiracy theories. People simply fail to, or ignore, that sheer impracticalities of what they’re proposing.
I think the psychological studies into conspiracy theorists conclude that many that think this way assume, incorrectly, that the people involved have far more control over the world than they do, and it’s more comforting to assume this than to acknowledge the lack of control and chaos that exists in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried to do the math on the COVID conspiracists who were claiming that no ICU and respiratory wards were overflowing/there weren’t ventilator or oxygen shortages/etc. once.
I forget the exact outcome now, but there’d have to have been (very literally) millions of people around the world conspiring to uphold that particular myth
But they still believed it to be true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They’re mental. It’d take millions upon millions of people to all be in collusion across the globe. You only have to go on facking Twitter to see that you can’t get people to agree on anything, let alone something on this scale.
Also, please do not EVER say ‘math’ to me again. Maths or mathematics are the only acceptable words to use.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Efficiency shapes the evolution of human communication, Daz.
May I call you Daz, Daz?
If you want to indulge America’s cultural imperialism by saying it, then fine. But I will have no part of it.
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 29 minutes ago
If you want to indulge America’s cultural imperialism by saying it, then fine. But I will have no part of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
K
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 4 hours, 16 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 51 minutes ago
Agreed. Of course I'm not saying it's the most plausible but we live in a world of acute capitalism. They create wars and kill people like ants just to sell arms and control wealth and resources. Wouldn't put it past pharma to do something similar tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont disagree with that. I have little doubt about the indifference that some decision-makers within pharma show towards human life when it comes to making profit. The history of pharma is littered with examples of some downright sinister stuff, and the story ioag just raised about Novo Nordisk is unfortunately the type of thing that's all too common and very little can be done about.
But I draw the line at the 'cure suppression' stuff. Not because I don't think they'd stoop that low, but just on a practical level I don't see how it is feasible. I think people who push that claim (not saying you are) often think of "pharma" as one big conglomerate, rather than consider the dynamic of thousands of competing companies which imo makes it almost impossible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair points but some issues are a bit more complex IMO. Big conglomerate or not, legal rights and the use of patents is where the game is at. Once something is patented then everyone else in the world is excluded and they have a monopoly. They don't always share all the info between them, each does their own thing to some extent and they don't need to suppress anything all together at the same time.
What, in your opinion, would one of them do if they found a cure for diabetes today, knowing it would possibly be their demise as well as that of competing companies? I have little faith that it would be released just like that. Think of the repercussions. They'd need 10-15 years to prepare for that.
They wouldn't need to be talking to other companies to suppress anything IMO. They could suppress it and in fact spend millions on hawk-eyed medical lawyers to ensure nobody even tries to encroach on their patent. By looking after themselves in that regard they look after their competition as well and the competition need not worry because if they go out of business due to some new cure or medicine then so does most of everyone else.
The big pharma companies are all very similar and have similar competing products on pharmacy shelves that deal with the same diseases or symptoms. One company wouldn't need to talk to another to suppress anything. What hurts one of them hurts all of them. It's just common sense for their business.
I see DNA gene editing is now possible so pharma better start getting ready to go out of business for the most part.
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 9 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 39 minutes ago
My biggest gripe with this theory though is that people never seem to take into account the sheer scale of people that would need to be in on it. Do you know how many people are involved in the production of a drug in one way or another, including the researchers and scientists themselves who have absolutely no interest in hiding their accomplishments? All of them just keep silent about it? Not a chance.
———
This is the case with most crack pot conspiracy theories. People simply fail to, or ignore, that sheer impracticalities of what they’re proposing.
I think the psychological studies into conspiracy theorists conclude that many that think this way assume, incorrectly, that the people involved have far more control over the world than they do, and it’s more comforting to assume this than to acknowledge the lack of control and chaos that exists in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried to do the math on the COVID conspiracists who were claiming that no ICU and respiratory wards were overflowing/there weren’t ventilator or oxygen shortages/etc. once.
I forget the exact outcome now, but there’d have to have been (very literally) millions of people around the world conspiring to uphold that particular myth
But they still believed it to be true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They’re mental. It’d take millions upon millions of people to all be in collusion across the globe. You only have to go on facking Twitter to see that you can’t get people to agree on anything, let alone something on this scale.
Also, please do not EVER say ‘math’ to me again. Maths or mathematics are the only acceptable words to use.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That sums it up....
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Trump headed to the White House?
Page 9 of 10
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posted on 17/10/24
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 18 minutes ago
That big Pharma supress cures for disease to maintain long term profits from medications they manufacture & have under patent
It's big business & it's market is sick people.
Better for them & profits to have more sick people or people who are permanently medicated on something or another. especially medicines they hold the patents for
--------------------------
I know from experience that there are some fairly nefarious individuals heading up pharma companies, and they absolutely do not always have patient's interests at heart.
This particular conspiracy theory however, is entirely illogical and makes no sense whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sorry, but what part of that makes no sense or is illogical?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, in fairness it depends what Peks meant.
Do they direct funding and attention to areas which are more profitable? Absolutely.
Would their research teams discover a cure for cancer, only for some big execs in suits to come along and tell them to bury it? Absolutely not.
Not sure what Peks meant, but there are a number of people who genuinely seem to believe the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody can be sure what peks meant, because he likely doesn't even know himself.
His original comment was a ringing endorsement of RFK Jr after someone mentioned the latter's crackpot antivaxx conspiracy theories.
His argument that conspiracy theories aren't really necessary to explain how big pharma works is the one point that we can probably all agree upon, but there's no understanding how he seems to have needed RFK Jr to open his eyes to this.
The irony in all this is that peks would in all likelihood have been dead for many years if it hadn't been for universal public healthcare and if his own medical condition hadn't been extremely profitable for the medical-pharmaceutical complex.
posted on 17/10/24
Would their research teams discover a cure for cancer, only for some big execs in suits to come along and tell them to bury it? Absolutely not.
======
Even if it meant going out of business? And drugs or treatments that had cost billions to make and billions to distribute, providing thousands of jobs across the world to suddenly become redundant overnight?
If you could find a cure for say, diabetes, then I would wager about three quarters of pharma would be filing for bankruptcy within months.
posted on 17/10/24
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 25 minutes ago
Would their research teams discover a cure for cancer, only for some big execs in suits to come along and tell them to bury it? Absolutely not.
======
Even if it meant going out of business? And drugs or treatments that had cost billions to make and billions to distribute, providing thousands of jobs across the world to suddenly become redundant overnight?
If you could find a cure for say, diabetes, then I would wager about three quarters of pharma would be filing for bankruptcy within months.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is the company that made the breakthrough would be absolutely minted, as it would hold the patent for 25 years and sales would likely dwarf all the other products the company marketed for that particular disease.
Shareholder dividends would be through the roof and the execs would be able to award themselves absolutely mammoth bonuses.
So yeah, there absolutely would be an incentive for them to market it.
posted on 17/10/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 hours, 3 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 25 minutes ago
Would their research teams discover a cure for cancer, only for some big execs in suits to come along and tell them to bury it? Absolutely not.
======
Even if it meant going out of business? And drugs or treatments that had cost billions to make and billions to distribute, providing thousands of jobs across the world to suddenly become redundant overnight?
If you could find a cure for say, diabetes, then I would wager about three quarters of pharma would be filing for bankruptcy within months.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is the company that made the breakthrough would be absolutely minted, as it would hold the patent for 25 years and sales would likely dwarf all the other products the company marketed for that particular disease.
Shareholder dividends would be through the roof and the execs would be able to award themselves absolutely mammoth bonuses.
So yeah, there absolutely would be an incentive for them to market it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think that's what would happen. Such a cure would have to be cheap or become cheap soon or be subsidised or something. It would be replacing thousands of other drugs on the shelf which are all bringing in millions or billions on their own. Pharmacies would have less drugs to stock, investors would lose billions on drugs in the pipeline, people have taken out loans and made investments based on such drugs, it would mean less profit by far...
posted on 17/10/24
We can agree to disagree, Mamba, but why would the leaders of a pharmaceutical company give a sheet about their competitors or about profits 25 years down the line when the immediate profits for the company (and therefore its shareholders and top executives) would be absolutely massive?
You're telling me they'd sit on the discovery and risk a competitor making the decision they didn't dare make themselves.
It's one thing to get involved in price-fixing and other ways of adulterating competition, but that's only when/because companies don't perceive a massive potential reward of going it on their own.
Offer any company in any sector an almost guaranteed huge advantage over the rest of the field and they'll grab it with both hands. That just the way cutthroat capitalism works.
posted on 17/10/24
Yep, what ioag said. The only way it would even be feasible is if there were some back-handed agreement between competing pharma companies to suppress this stuff and I find that incredibly hard to believe. To use the diabetes example, 75% of pharma companies would not go bust if a cure is found. It may impact Novo Nordisk who produce most of the insulin preparations, but even they would be unlikely to suppress it because if a cure exists its only a matter of time before it gets into the hands of a competitor one way or another.
My biggest gripe with this theory though is that people never seem to take into account the sheer scale of people that would need to be in on it. Do you know how many people are involved in the production of a drug in one way or another, including the researchers and scientists themselves who have absolutely no interest in hiding their accomplishments? All of them just keep silent about it? Not a chance.
posted on 17/10/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 22 hours, 5 minutes ago
Mostly the BBc
-------------------------------
Was the claim / verdict structure taken from a BBC article or your own creation?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the BBC article
posted on 17/10/24
spot on Tony Benn
https://x.com/JamesMelville/status/1846884546660188627
posted on 17/10/24
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 41 minutes ago
Yep, what ioag said. The only way it would even be feasible is if there were some back-handed agreement between competing pharma companies to suppress this stuff and I find that incredibly hard to believe. To use the diabetes example, 75% of pharma companies would not go bust if a cure is found. It may impact Novo Nordisk who produce most of the insulin preparations, but even they would be unlikely to suppress it because if a cure exists its only a matter of time before it gets into the hands of a competitor one way or another.
My biggest gripe with this theory though is that people never seem to take into account the sheer scale of people that would need to be in on it. Do you know how many people are involved in the production of a drug in one way or another, including the researchers and scientists themselves who have absolutely no interest in hiding their accomplishments? All of them just keep silent about it? Not a chance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If all of them stayed silent then we wouldn't even be talking about it, would we? In any case, the research is usually compartmentalised no?. They also have non-disclosure stuff and assassinations and sheet. Also, could take time for stuff to come out too.
I'm just saying I wouldn't dismiss these theories. They carried out the
posted on 17/10/24
How many people knew about something like the Tuskegee experiment? Had to involve hundreds if not thousands of people.
And it was still plausibly denied for decades.
posted on 17/10/24
Also, most of pharma's business is not cures. It's treating symptoms. A disease like diabetes affects every part of the body and apart from insulin diabetics take all sorts of other medicines. One day it's the eyes, next day the back, legs, knees, headaches outta nowhere, nausea and countless others. Diabetes is also linked to many other diseases, some of which are chronic. Amy diabetics eventually develop other conditions and complications. It weakens the immune system, so patients need a lot of drugs and expensive medical care. When covid comes they get mowed down like a corn field.
posted on 17/10/24
@Mamba: It's one thing to completely dismiss a theory and quite another to consider it the most plausible scenario though.
@bloodred, interesting you should mention Novo Nordisk up there. I didn't read it in full detail, but only yesterday I half-read an article about them and if I got the gist of it correctly, they're discontinuing the manufacture of some insulin administration pen with huge repercussions for millions of people who rely on them in resource-poor settings, all because it's become much more profitable to repackage Ozempic as a weight loss drug.
posted on 17/10/24
Agreed. Of course I'm not saying it's the most plausible but we live in a world of acute capitalism. They create wars and kill people like ants just to sell arms and control wealth and resources. Wouldn't put it past pharma to do something similar tbh.
posted on 17/10/24
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 51 minutes ago
Agreed. Of course I'm not saying it's the most plausible but we live in a world of acute capitalism. They create wars and kill people like ants just to sell arms and control wealth and resources. Wouldn't put it past pharma to do something similar tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont disagree with that. I have little doubt about the indifference that some decision-makers within pharma show towards human life when it comes to making profit. The history of pharma is littered with examples of some downright sinister stuff, and the story ioag just raised about Novo Nordisk is unfortunately the type of thing that's all too common and very little can be done about.
But I draw the line at the 'cure suppression' stuff. Not because I don't think they'd stoop that low, but just on a practical level I don't see how it is feasible. I think people who push that claim (not saying you are) often think of "pharma" as one big conglomerate, rather than consider the dynamic of thousands of competing companies which imo makes it almost impossible.
posted on 17/10/24
My biggest gripe with this theory though is that people never seem to take into account the sheer scale of people that would need to be in on it. Do you know how many people are involved in the production of a drug in one way or another, including the researchers and scientists themselves who have absolutely no interest in hiding their accomplishments? All of them just keep silent about it? Not a chance.
———
This is the case with most crack pot conspiracy theories. People simply fail to, or ignore, that sheer impracticalities of what they’re proposing.
I think the psychological studies into conspiracy theorists conclude that many that think this way assume, incorrectly, that the people involved have far more control over the world than they do, and it’s more comforting to assume this than to acknowledge the lack of control and chaos that exists in the world.
posted on 17/10/24
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 39 minutes ago
My biggest gripe with this theory though is that people never seem to take into account the sheer scale of people that would need to be in on it. Do you know how many people are involved in the production of a drug in one way or another, including the researchers and scientists themselves who have absolutely no interest in hiding their accomplishments? All of them just keep silent about it? Not a chance.
———
This is the case with most crack pot conspiracy theories. People simply fail to, or ignore, that sheer impracticalities of what they’re proposing.
I think the psychological studies into conspiracy theorists conclude that many that think this way assume, incorrectly, that the people involved have far more control over the world than they do, and it’s more comforting to assume this than to acknowledge the lack of control and chaos that exists in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried to do the math on the COVID conspiracists who were claiming that no ICU and respiratory wards were overflowing/there weren’t ventilator or oxygen shortages/etc. once.
I forget the exact outcome now, but there’d have to have been (very literally) millions of people around the world conspiring to uphold that particular myth
But they still believed it to be true.
posted on 17/10/24
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 39 minutes ago
My biggest gripe with this theory though is that people never seem to take into account the sheer scale of people that would need to be in on it. Do you know how many people are involved in the production of a drug in one way or another, including the researchers and scientists themselves who have absolutely no interest in hiding their accomplishments? All of them just keep silent about it? Not a chance.
———
This is the case with most crack pot conspiracy theories. People simply fail to, or ignore, that sheer impracticalities of what they’re proposing.
I think the psychological studies into conspiracy theorists conclude that many that think this way assume, incorrectly, that the people involved have far more control over the world than they do, and it’s more comforting to assume this than to acknowledge the lack of control and chaos that exists in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried to do the math on the COVID conspiracists who were claiming that no ICU and respiratory wards were overflowing/there weren’t ventilator or oxygen shortages/etc. once.
I forget the exact outcome now, but there’d have to have been (very literally) millions of people around the world conspiring to uphold that particular myth
But they still believed it to be true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They’re mental. It’d take millions upon millions of people to all be in collusion across the globe. You only have to go on facking Twitter to see that you can’t get people to agree on anything, let alone something on this scale.
Also, please do not EVER say ‘math’ to me again. Maths or mathematics are the only acceptable words to use.
posted on 17/10/24
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 39 minutes ago
My biggest gripe with this theory though is that people never seem to take into account the sheer scale of people that would need to be in on it. Do you know how many people are involved in the production of a drug in one way or another, including the researchers and scientists themselves who have absolutely no interest in hiding their accomplishments? All of them just keep silent about it? Not a chance.
———
This is the case with most crack pot conspiracy theories. People simply fail to, or ignore, that sheer impracticalities of what they’re proposing.
I think the psychological studies into conspiracy theorists conclude that many that think this way assume, incorrectly, that the people involved have far more control over the world than they do, and it’s more comforting to assume this than to acknowledge the lack of control and chaos that exists in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried to do the math on the COVID conspiracists who were claiming that no ICU and respiratory wards were overflowing/there weren’t ventilator or oxygen shortages/etc. once.
I forget the exact outcome now, but there’d have to have been (very literally) millions of people around the world conspiring to uphold that particular myth
But they still believed it to be true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They’re mental. It’d take millions upon millions of people to all be in collusion across the globe. You only have to go on facking Twitter to see that you can’t get people to agree on anything, let alone something on this scale.
Also, please do not EVER say ‘math’ to me again. Maths or mathematics are the only acceptable words to use.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Efficiency shapes the evolution of human communication, Daz.
May I call you Daz, Daz?
posted on 17/10/24
If you want to indulge America’s cultural imperialism by saying it, then fine. But I will have no part of it.
posted on 17/10/24
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 29 minutes ago
If you want to indulge America’s cultural imperialism by saying it, then fine. But I will have no part of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
K
posted on 17/10/24
Ok Dath
posted on 17/10/24
posted on 18/10/24
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 4 hours, 16 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 51 minutes ago
Agreed. Of course I'm not saying it's the most plausible but we live in a world of acute capitalism. They create wars and kill people like ants just to sell arms and control wealth and resources. Wouldn't put it past pharma to do something similar tbh.
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I dont disagree with that. I have little doubt about the indifference that some decision-makers within pharma show towards human life when it comes to making profit. The history of pharma is littered with examples of some downright sinister stuff, and the story ioag just raised about Novo Nordisk is unfortunately the type of thing that's all too common and very little can be done about.
But I draw the line at the 'cure suppression' stuff. Not because I don't think they'd stoop that low, but just on a practical level I don't see how it is feasible. I think people who push that claim (not saying you are) often think of "pharma" as one big conglomerate, rather than consider the dynamic of thousands of competing companies which imo makes it almost impossible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair points but some issues are a bit more complex IMO. Big conglomerate or not, legal rights and the use of patents is where the game is at. Once something is patented then everyone else in the world is excluded and they have a monopoly. They don't always share all the info between them, each does their own thing to some extent and they don't need to suppress anything all together at the same time.
What, in your opinion, would one of them do if they found a cure for diabetes today, knowing it would possibly be their demise as well as that of competing companies? I have little faith that it would be released just like that. Think of the repercussions. They'd need 10-15 years to prepare for that.
They wouldn't need to be talking to other companies to suppress anything IMO. They could suppress it and in fact spend millions on hawk-eyed medical lawyers to ensure nobody even tries to encroach on their patent. By looking after themselves in that regard they look after their competition as well and the competition need not worry because if they go out of business due to some new cure or medicine then so does most of everyone else.
The big pharma companies are all very similar and have similar competing products on pharmacy shelves that deal with the same diseases or symptoms. One company wouldn't need to talk to another to suppress anything. What hurts one of them hurts all of them. It's just common sense for their business.
posted on 18/10/24
I see DNA gene editing is now possible so pharma better start getting ready to go out of business for the most part.
posted on 18/10/24
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 9 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 39 minutes ago
My biggest gripe with this theory though is that people never seem to take into account the sheer scale of people that would need to be in on it. Do you know how many people are involved in the production of a drug in one way or another, including the researchers and scientists themselves who have absolutely no interest in hiding their accomplishments? All of them just keep silent about it? Not a chance.
———
This is the case with most crack pot conspiracy theories. People simply fail to, or ignore, that sheer impracticalities of what they’re proposing.
I think the psychological studies into conspiracy theorists conclude that many that think this way assume, incorrectly, that the people involved have far more control over the world than they do, and it’s more comforting to assume this than to acknowledge the lack of control and chaos that exists in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried to do the math on the COVID conspiracists who were claiming that no ICU and respiratory wards were overflowing/there weren’t ventilator or oxygen shortages/etc. once.
I forget the exact outcome now, but there’d have to have been (very literally) millions of people around the world conspiring to uphold that particular myth
But they still believed it to be true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They’re mental. It’d take millions upon millions of people to all be in collusion across the globe. You only have to go on facking Twitter to see that you can’t get people to agree on anything, let alone something on this scale.
Also, please do not EVER say ‘math’ to me again. Maths or mathematics are the only acceptable words to use.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That sums it up....
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