So you are happy to celebrate certain aspects of Christianity, but think the religion should be scrapped ?

I am happy that you celebrate Christmas, I am also happy that everyone celebrates Christmas.

But lets not say that religion is bad and the cause of all that's wrong, because the fact that we all celebrate Christmas is proof that proves otherwise.

comment by LordDowlias (U3236)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Insufferable-Piffle (U4388)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by LordDowlias (U3236)
posted 9 minutes ago
There are a lot of nasty and spiteful people on here, that I will say.

Anyway, for all the people who want an end to religion, or Christianity, what will you be doing during December ?

I take it you will not be having a jolly-up for Christmas then ?

You wont be buying gifts for loved ones ?

Bunch of hypocrites.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure what Santa, tinsel, Xmas trees, turkeys, party hats and presents wrapped in paper have to do with "God or Jesus"? I believe in Santa as much as I do God but each to their own
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Its a Christian holiday, however inaccurate, but it is a time of year where Christians celebrate the birth of our lord Jesus Christ.

If you want to end all religions and in particular Christianity, then you should not celebrate Christmas.

Am I wrong ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are wrong to an extent. Christmas is now just a capitalist holiday for spending money on crap. A small percentage of remaining old people celebrate the Jesus stuff.

Its main purpose now is people buying crap. Most people now just carry on the capitalist traditions, not the religious ones.

If it didn't make rich people so much money, the holiday would die out as mainstream thing because not enough people are actually hardcore christians. It is just such a money making machine that it keeps getting pushed harder and harder, earlier and earlier each year.

Your missing the point though.

People on here, on this thread, have said that religion is the cause of all that's wrong in the world.

The fact that there is a Christmas to celebrate, and others like Easter, is because of religion.

On December the 25th we will all be together with our families and friends, it brings people together it's a time to rejoice. This is because of religion, and in particular Christianity.

The sentiment is till there, in whatever guise you see it.

comment by LordDowlias (U3236)
posted 6 minutes ago.

The fact that there is a Christmas to celebrate, and others like Easter, is because of religion.

On December the 25th we will all be together with our families and friends, it brings people together it's a time to rejoice. This is because of religion, and in particular Christianity.

The sentiment is till there, in whatever guise you see it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you not use that same logic that where you said religion brings people together and use it about wars in the past and present too?

comment by LordDowlias (U3236)
posted 42 minutes ago
So you are happy to celebrate certain aspects of Christianity, but think the religion should be scrapped ?

I am happy that you celebrate Christmas, I am also happy that everyone celebrates Christmas.

But lets not say that religion is bad and the cause of all that's wrong, because the fact that we all celebrate Christmas is proof that proves otherwise.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But that's it mate I'm not "celebrating" Xmas in any sort of way than I would any holidays? I buy pressies because I got bought them and the kids and grandkids expect them but there a zero religious thoughts or beliefs involved, to be fair I simply drink more than normal?

comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by LordDowlias (U3236)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Insufferable-Piffle (U4388)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by LordDowlias (U3236)
posted 9 minutes ago
There are a lot of nasty and spiteful people on here, that I will say.

Anyway, for all the people who want an end to religion, or Christianity, what will you be doing during December ?

I take it you will not be having a jolly-up for Christmas then ?

You wont be buying gifts for loved ones ?

Bunch of hypocrites.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure what Santa, tinsel, Xmas trees, turkeys, party hats and presents wrapped in paper have to do with "God or Jesus"? I believe in Santa as much as I do God but each to their own
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Its a Christian holiday, however inaccurate, but it is a time of year where Christians celebrate the birth of our lord Jesus Christ.

If you want to end all religions and in particular Christianity, then you should not celebrate Christmas.

Am I wrong ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are wrong to an extent. Christmas is now just a capitalist holiday for spending money on crap. A small percentage of remaining old people celebrate the Jesus stuff.

Its main purpose now is people buying crap. Most people now just carry on the capitalist traditions, not the religious ones.

If it didn't make rich people so much money, the holiday would die out as mainstream thing because not enough people are actually hardcore christians. It is just such a money making machine that it keeps getting pushed harder and harder, earlier and earlier each year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Baz, that articulated what I feel about Xmas better than I tried to

comment by LordDowlias (U3236)
posted 31 minutes ago
Your missing the point though.

People on here, on this thread, have said that religion is the cause of all that's wrong in the world.

The fact that there is a Christmas to celebrate, and others like Easter, is because of religion.

On December the 25th we will all be together with our families and friends, it brings people together it's a time to rejoice. This is because of religion, and in particular Christianity.

The sentiment is till there, in whatever guise you see it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Money is the reason it keeps going on this scale, not religion. The religious holiday has been hijacked by capitalism. If you are saying that religion is the reason why so many people get together at Christmas, then you are also saying that religion is also to blame for the greatest waste and climate impact of a single day in human history.

Christmas is essentially just a giant garbage ball. And you are saying that's because of christianity, because you are boasting about the benefits of it, you also have to acknowledge the negative impacts.

Either none of you are grasping what I am saying, or you are deliberately twisting the words to suit your own agenda.

Why is there a Christmas ?
Why is there an Easter ?
Why is the a Whitsun ?

Why do we have holidays for these in the first place ?

The reasons why they have spawned into something else is irrelevant, if you are not going to recognize the origins of these holidays then that's up to you.

But the facts are they all came from religion. If you think its a bad thing, because of what they are now, then do not celebrate them. If you do celebrate them, but think differently then your a hypocrite.

If it were not for Christianity, you would not have the opportunity to celebrate these times in whatever guise you chose, in the first place.

Now if religion is the root of all that's bad, then Christmas, Easter and any other religious related holidays are bad as well then ?

Why is there a Christmas ?
=====
Because Christianity copied the holiday from some pagans.

The holiday doest even belong to Christianity so shut the fack up Dowlias.

comment by Disband the PGMOL (U1282)
posted 14 seconds ago
Why is there a Christmas ?
=====
Because Christianity copied the holiday from some pagans.

The holiday doest even belong to Christianity so shut the fack up Dowlias.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Classy.

Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus.

If you do not want to recognize that then it is up to you, but I would never tell you to do what you have just told me.

I wonder if you would speak to people like that face to face.

If you do want to go down to road of Paganism being the origin of Christmas, it's still religious, so again, are you still saying that religion is the root of all that is wrong ?

comment by LordDowlias (U3236)
posted 11 minutes ago
Either none of you are grasping what I am saying, or you are deliberately twisting the words to suit your own agenda.

Why is there a Christmas ?
Why is there an Easter ?
Why is the a Whitsun ?

Why do we have holidays for these in the first place ?

The reasons why they have spawned into something else is irrelevant, if you are not going to recognize the origins of these holidays then that's up to you.

But the facts are they all came from religion. If you think its a bad thing, because of what they are now, then do not celebrate them. If you do celebrate them, but think differently then your a hypocrite.

If it were not for Christianity, you would not have the opportunity to celebrate these times in whatever guise you chose, in the first place.

Now if religion is the root of all that's bad, then Christmas, Easter and any other religious related holidays are bad as well then ?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The reasons why they have spawned into something else is irrelevant"

No, the reasons are not irrelevant.

Morbid analogy, but if a child was born because someone raaped their mother, and the mother loves this child, the child only happened because of the raaape.

That does not make raape a positive thing to celebrate.

They have made the most of the result of a bad situation.


People continue to make a positive from christmas, despite it moving away from its origins.

Also it has its negative impacts (which you don't want to attribute to religion, only the positives).

comment by Disband the PGMOL (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
Why is there a Christmas ?
=====
Because Christianity copied the holiday from some pagans.

The holiday doest even belong to Christianity so shut the fack up Dowlias.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasn’t copied so much as two ideals fused together by emperor Constantine in effort to unify pagans and Christians. I believe it was the Roman festival Saturnalia which was then merged in with the concept of celebrating christs birth

Ultimately while I’m aware that most people aren’t celebrating the birth of Jesus - Christmas is inextricably linked with the celebration of that as Easter is linked to the death and resurrection of JC

Not all religions follow them of course - Jehovahs witnesses being a prime example who basically view those events as completely man made, rooted in pagan origins and basically offensive to God

LordDowlias

I can respect that you sound like a faithful Christian who likes to see the positive side to religion but 3 times on here, you've been asked to recognise the 'other' side of religion.... wars, peedo's, corruption etc and keep ignoring it...why?

comment by LordDowlias (U3236)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Disband the PGMOL (U1282)
posted 14 seconds ago
Why is there a Christmas ?
=====
Because Christianity copied the holiday from some pagans.

The holiday doest even belong to Christianity so shut the fack up Dowlias.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Classy.

Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus.

If you do not want to recognize that then it is up to you, but I would never tell you to do what you have just told me.

I wonder if you would speak to people like that face to face.

If you do want to go down to road of Paganism being the origin of Christmas, it's still religious, so again, are you still saying that religion is the root of all that is wrong ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about me. The way you talk it's like Christmas belongs to Christianity when it is a holiday celebrate observed by many other religions throughout history.

It is or was a special day for many religions, nit just Christianity so the point you're making would only work of Christianity had ownership of this holiday, which it does not.

The evolution of our society is based on Christianity, the enlightenment changed that but we've kept the trimmings.
The OP is about organised religion and that includes Islam, Judaism et al. The heads or leaders of these
organisations who have overlooked the heinous crimes of their clergy are hypocrites and worse, they're facilitators, they moved priests around from parish to parish, they turned a blind eye and a deaf ear to victims to protect the organisation, they betrayed the teachings of their God, whatever me he goes by.

comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 3 minutes ago
The evolution of our society is based on Christianity, the enlightenment changed that but we've kept the trimmings.
The OP is about organised religion and that includes Islam, Judaism et al. The heads or leaders of these
organisations who have overlooked the heinous crimes of their clergy are hypocrites and worse, they're facilitators, they moved priests around from parish to parish, they turned a blind eye and a deaf ear to victims to protect the organisation, they betrayed the teachings of their God, whatever me he goes by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

This, 100%.

Lets talk about the corruption. But lets not say that religion is the root of everything that is wrong. Even the wars being fought over religion is down to people not following the religion as they should, people who betray their religion should be brought to justice.

If people do not have faith, then that's their right, it's their way, I have no problem with that what so ever.

What I do have a problem is, when these people who do not have faith, try telling people who do that what they have faith in is he cause of all the atrocities in life.

comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
The evolution of our society is based on Christianity, the enlightenment changed that but we've kept the trimmings.
The OP is about organised religion and that includes Islam, Judaism et al. The heads or leaders of these
organisations who have overlooked the heinous crimes of their clergy are hypocrites and worse, they're facilitators, they moved priests around from parish to parish, they turned a blind eye and a deaf ear to victims to protect the organisation, they betrayed the teachings of their God, whatever me he goes by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t disagree - religion has a bad track record. So does politics. As we’ve pointed out on this thread, there are many other examples of other institutions covering up cases of child abuse - all well documented

I get that when it’s a religious organisation, there’s a large element of hypocrisy at play. Completely accept that. I guess the point is, i haven’t seen anyone railing on here against these other institutions that are guilty of exactly the same thing. I think what this thread has highlighted is there is a wider bias here and the OP has leapt on this news article to push his agenda

comment by Disband the PGMOL (U1282)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by LordDowlias (U3236)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Disband the PGMOL (U1282)
posted 14 seconds ago
Why is there a Christmas ?
=====
Because Christianity copied the holiday from some pagans.

The holiday doest even belong to Christianity so shut the fack up Dowlias.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Classy.

Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus.

If you do not want to recognize that then it is up to you, but I would never tell you to do what you have just told me.

I wonder if you would speak to people like that face to face.

If you do want to go down to road of Paganism being the origin of Christmas, it's still religious, so again, are you still saying that religion is the root of all that is wrong ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about me. The way you talk it's like Christmas belongs to Christianity when it is a holiday celebrate observed by many other religions throughout history.

It is or was a special day for many religions, nit just Christianity so the point you're making would only work of Christianity had ownership of this holiday, which it does not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

You do not get it do you ?

People (Christians) associate Christmas with the birth of Christ. Its in the word.

My guess is you know this, but you are just trying to maneuver the discussion in a different way.

If you want you can call it Saturnalia if you want, as the Pagans called it, but the facts are you still celebrate it.

So you are still celebrating an event that was the spawn of religion.

So if you are against religion, then why do you celebrate Christmas in what ever guise you want to call it ?

Genuine question, and no offence taken to how you chose to live your life.

We don't get the world we live in today without religion. It's mankind's first attempt at

(1) a real philosophy (the historians argument)
(2) establishing a sophisticated system of control (the cynics argument).

Nothing symbolizes history & culture to our species more than the creation of religion. It's entrenched in everything. It is outdated? Yeah in my opinion. We've grown beyond the need for it, although still clearly works for point 2 in certain parts of the world.

Ultimately, for me (as an atheist), it comes down to the type of person it makes you. If religion helps you find inner peace you can't get anywhere else - go for it, happy for you.

comment by 98 Problems (and promotion ain’t one) (U12353)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
The evolution of our society is based on Christianity, the enlightenment changed that but we've kept the trimmings.
The OP is about organised religion and that includes Islam, Judaism et al. The heads or leaders of these
organisations who have overlooked the heinous crimes of their clergy are hypocrites and worse, they're facilitators, they moved priests around from parish to parish, they turned a blind eye and a deaf ear to victims to protect the organisation, they betrayed the teachings of their God, whatever me he goes by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t disagree - religion has a bad track record. So does politics. As we’ve pointed out on this thread, there are many other examples of other institutions covering up cases of child abuse - all well documented

I get that when it’s a religious organisation, there’s a large element of hypocrisy at play. Completely accept that. I guess the point is, i haven’t seen anyone railing on here against these other institutions that are guilty of exactly the same thing. I think what this thread has highlighted is there is a wider bias here and the OP has leapt on this news article to push his agenda
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The offenders are the abusers, no ifs or buts and they weasel their way into organisations that give access to children, that's, as you rightly say not unique to religion.
The scouts, football teams, schools, charities, refugee agencies the list is long.
The difference in my eyes is the cover ups, it's one thing the BBC wrongly protecting Saville it's quite another for the organised religious to do that.
This isnt about whatabootery, we, I assume, want these animals rooted out of all organisations, it's just the holy men protecting the sinner at the expense of the sinned against that's, by multiples, more outrageous than other organisations. They preach right from wrong, they instruct their flocks (or whatever non Christians call theirs) to became like Jesus would, love they neighbour isn't an invite.

We also don't get my username

comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 7 minutes ago
We don't get the world we live in today without religion. It's mankind's first attempt at

(1) a real philosophy (the historians argument)
(2) establishing a sophisticated system of control (the cynics argument).

Nothing symbolizes history & culture to our species more than the creation of religion. It's entrenched in everything. It is outdated? Yeah in my opinion. We've grown beyond the need for it, although still clearly works for point 2 in certain parts of the world.

Ultimately, for me (as an atheist), it comes down to the type of person it makes you. If religion helps you find inner peace you can't get anywhere else - go for it, happy for you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, thankyou. Your last paragraph is probably the fairest assessment I have read on this debate, being a good Christian, or a good person, by following the rules of Christianity makes it for me.

It does not mean I have to go to Church every Sunday, or even putting a crucifix up in my house, as I do not do any of those things, but I do try and live my life by the 10 commandments, but it is impossible to do them all, as they are over 2000 years old.

It's all about how you treat your fellow man/woman, and you do not have to have faith to be a good person.

comment by LordDowlias (U3236)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 7 minutes ago
We don't get the world we live in today without religion. It's mankind's first attempt at

(1) a real philosophy (the historians argument)
(2) establishing a sophisticated system of control (the cynics argument).

Nothing symbolizes history & culture to our species more than the creation of religion. It's entrenched in everything. It is outdated? Yeah in my opinion. We've grown beyond the need for it, although still clearly works for point 2 in certain parts of the world.

Ultimately, for me (as an atheist), it comes down to the type of person it makes you. If religion helps you find inner peace you can't get anywhere else - go for it, happy for you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, thankyou. Your last paragraph is probably the fairest assessment I have read on this debate, being a good Christian, or a good person, by following the rules of Christianity makes it for me.

It does not mean I have to go to Church every Sunday, or even putting a crucifix up in my house, as I do not do any of those things, but I do try and live my life by the 10 commandments, but it is impossible to do them all, as they are over 2000 years old.

It's all about how you treat your fellow man/woman, and you do not have to have faith to be a good person.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Exactly, a person can chose to practise religion to the letter, or can simply take the key principles of the teachings of the bible/religious text - Love, tolerance, kindness, honesty and apply them to their lives. In this respect it is not harmful and makes a very positive contribution to society.

Those who exploit it for gain or focus on elements of ancient texts to endorse a hateful agenda and intolerance are a part of religion, but that simply reflects an unpleasant part of society and in most civilisations, such attitudes are rejected. In the same way as many football fans have allegiance and dedication to their team, a small element take that to extreme lengths and believe they are justified in doing so, in the name of loyalty etc - it's just human nature that an element will interpret and act in this negative way. It should not undermine the whole system because of this extreme element.

I think religion and its key principles can have an important role in modern society, where there is an every growing element who seem to lack any key principles and are easily influenced by far less positive 'idols'. But to become more relevant I think religion needs to modernise and the focus needs to change from the details, which in the modern context can be easily dismissed and laughed at, and more about a guiding set of positive principles, which may have emanated from preachers 1000s of years ago, but are still relevant in the modern world.

The historically negative impacts of religion are ever decreasing as society develops, and i think people should start to focus on the positive impact it can have, and certainly there is no need to hate it in most cases.

comment by LordDowlias (U3236)
posted 4 hours, 39 minutes ago
There are a lot of nasty and spiteful people on here, that I will say.

Anyway, for all the people who want an end to religion, or Christianity, what will you be doing during December ?

I take it you will not be having a jolly-up for Christmas then ?

You wont be buying gifts for loved ones ?

Bunch of hypocrites.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
personally I hate Christmas & Easter...once upon a time it meant a holiday from work...now it's just shat in shops & on the telly for two months, & making those that can't afford it pay for toys & chocolate their kids don't need

comment by LordDowlias (U3236)
posted 4 hours, 15 minutes ago
comment by Insufferable-Piffle (U4388)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by LordDowlias (U3236)
posted 9 minutes ago
There are a lot of nasty and spiteful people on here, that I will say.

Anyway, for all the people who want an end to religion, or Christianity, what will you be doing during December ?

I take it you will not be having a jolly-up for Christmas then ?

You wont be buying gifts for loved ones ?

Bunch of hypocrites.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure what Santa, tinsel, Xmas trees, turkeys, party hats and presents wrapped in paper have to do with "God or Jesus"? I believe in Santa as much as I do God but each to their own
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Its a Christian holiday, however inaccurate, but it is a time of year where Christians celebrate the birth of our lord Jesus Christ.

If you want to end all religions and in particular Christianity, then you should not celebrate Christmas.

Am I wrong ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it's about the only thing the fackin Jehovah's get right