ohh sorry i forgot about liverpool , lets make it the big 7 so you can be included again, i would hate to see you crying
comment by wearethefamousthfc1882 (U10288)
posted 1 minute ago
yeh its shame we dont pay big wages to the likes of fat boy carrol and chubby adams like you do
Must be great to see your hard earned busker playing money to go down the drain like that
--------------------------------------------------------------
Both players who turned Spurs down. Come on stop or we're gonna have to introduce a top five of idiotic comments of the day, where you'd probably have three entries already.
comment by The Adventures Of Batmanu Eboué & Robin Van Persie - Part time Napoli & Basel fan here. LAM (U2725) posted 3 seconds ago
100
---
Yeah, forget big 4, 5, 6 or 7, you're all in the big 100 and so are Ipswich.
To answer the OP I reckon Ade and Villa would be an amazing partnership. They way both of them play I think they would really compliment each other. I'm not so sure about Suarez and Villa though, not even sure how an RVP/Villa partnership would work.
I doubt he will ever come to England to be honest and I'm certain he won't be going anywhere this January unless he fancies a trip to China to partner Anelka that is.
spurs 4.0 liverpool ..
As Jim royal qwould say
BIG CLUB MY AR_SE
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15017076
Tottenham Hotspur's rallying slogan "Glory Glory" could soon be transformed into the slightly more 21st Century sounding "Flair, Style and Adventure" as the club embarks on a major business rebranding.
The north London team is looking to reach out its a potentially huge fan base around the world, and then leverage that global interest in Spurs to hopefully sign a number of new sponsorship deals.
At the heart of it all is the concept that there is a huge, as-yet-untapped, "brand" at the core of the club.
All this is based on a solid foundation of a continued and growing demand for Premier League football around the world, which is broadcast in 207 countries.
Around the world Premier League football was watched on TV last year by 3.9 billion people, 1.24 billion of them in Asia alone.
"The appetite is growing," says Tottenham Hotspur executive director Charlie Wijeratna, a former lawyer and investment banker.
"On top of this Premier League platform you have Tottenham Hotspur. The interest is massive in Asia, including China.
"There are more people outside the UK who like and follow Spurs than there are inside the UK."
The club sells out every match at its 36,500 capacity White Hart Lane ground, has 23,500 season ticket holders, and a further 32,000 people on a paid-for waiting list for season tickets.
'Zero revenues'
However, he says that while Spurs has an estimated three million core fans in the UK, there are another 179 million supporters in other parts of the world who follow the team's fortunes.
Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote
How do we create value for sponsors from all these people who want to support us?”
Charlie Wijeratna Tottenham Hotspur FC
After Asia the next most popular sphere is in sub-Saharan Africa, including South Africa, where the club has been a trailblazer in terms of touring.
"But we drive zero revenues from these 179 million fans at present," says Mr Wijeratna at a Sports Marketing 360 event in London.
"Manchester United are three to four years ahead of us in this. Very few other clubs derive any income from all these people who care about them overseas."
He adds: "How do we create value for sponsors from all these people who want to support us?"
Mr Wijeratna said there were currently aspects of sponsoring a football club that could be gauged - such as the value of tickets and hospitality.
Spurs in action against Orlando Pirates in South Africa in summer 2011 Spurs are popular in sub-Saharan Africa, including in South Africa
Media value can also be measured in terms of LED advertising, backdrop boarding and programme and magazine advertisements.
But he said these tangible and measurable benefits were small compared to the "intangible" benefits of being associated with the Spurs brand.
"Tottenham Hotspur's brand is the club's most valuable asset," asserts Mr Wijeratna
"The greatest value of a sponsorship lies in being associated with the brand - the marks, imagery and values."
And he said the power of the brand could be harnessed for the benefit of commercial partners of Spurs.
'Distinctive brand'
"We play attractive football, that is something that goes back to the start of the last century," says Mr Wijeratna, who joined Spurs last November from London 2012 Olympic Games organisers Locog.
Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote
We will be giving commercial partners access to something people want to be involved with”
Charlie Wijeratna Tottenham Hotspur FC
"We want people to think about what makes us different - Spurs has a distinctive brand around these issues of flair, style and adventure."
He said the club had gone through a thorough process to work out what made Tottenham Hotspur different from other clubs.
Now the club is to launch a new website in November, along with a new coherent brand image which makes use of Spurs' famous cockerel logo.
"We are trying to find commercial partners who value [the Spurs brand]," Mr Wijeratna says.
"We will be giving commercial partners access to something people want to be involved with."
He said that although Spurs had sold, via the Premier League, the TV rights to its live league matches, it had other valuable media assets.
Tottenham Hotspur fans in Hong Kong The club is launching a new website to help connect with its fans around the globe
"We own the access to our players at all other times, such as training," says Mr Wijeratna.
"We can create bespoke content, filming training for example. There is an immense interest in the players and in this side of things.
"At the moment I don't think the club is really making the most of that."
He said the best way to use all this potential content was with sponsors, who could run commercial programmes off the back of this "compelling content".
Stadium issues
The club received a boost earlier this week when it signed a planning agreement to build a new stadium at the 20-acre Northumberland Park site next to White Hart Lane.
"This will be the best stadium in the country," says Mr Wijeratna.
"It has been designed with the fan experience as the most important thing."
He said the club, which is currently building a new state-of-the-art training complex, desperately needed a new, bigger, stadium.
White Hart Lane stadium The capacity at White Hart Lane is not big enough to meet demand
"We are one of two or three clubs in the country who can fill a 60,000 stadium relatively easily," he says.
"At present we cannot fulfil demand. Also, Arsenal and Manchester United take considerably more revenue from each home game than we do, that is because of the size of the stadium."
When the club played Real Madrid in the quarter-final of last year's Champions League, they only had 5,000 tickets available for sale and 70,000 applications to buy them.
Tottenham, however, have not given up hope of becoming the long-term tenants of the Olympic Stadium after next year's Games.
They have mounted a legal challenge against West Ham's current winning bid.
Mr Wijeratna said the decision to also apply to use the Olympic Stadium was a prudent business decision, but would not comment further because of the ongoing legal case.
Financial fair play
According to the latest Deloitte analysis of the football club business in Europe, the club was the tenth biggest in the continent - and by extension the world - in terms of revenues.
"When financial fair play kicks in that will change the balance," says Mr Wijeratna, referring to the new Uefa monetary guidelines which state clubs can only spend the revenues their business brings in.
He said it meant clubs like Manchester City and Chelsea would no longer be able to rely on the deep pockets of their owners.
"Spurs makes an operating profit, and has done for a long time," says the former Sky television executive.
"Very quietly Spurs is getting 'with it'. We are going on a journey, and it is going to be very exciting."
So far this week we're supposed to be signing Kaka, Tevez, Torres and now Villa.
-----------Friedel
-----------Kaboul
------Parker---Modric
Lennon-Kaka-VDV-Bale
-----Tevez-Ade-Villa
I know Kaboul's playing well but I think we're asking a bit much of him...
Torres would be on the bench, obviously
"Okay - seeing as you have no definitive data so actually cannot prove me wrong - why don't Spurs pay big wages."
Massive cannot understand English .
Spurs cannot pay these big wages because they do not have the revenues.
But neither do Liverpool. And probably several other PL clubs.
Specifically, SIGNIFICANT revenues derived from the mythical "massive fanbase worldwide" .
Now, if you have DEFINITIVE DATA that shows the Pooools' revenue is derived from the mythicals dipping into their pockets, buying replica kit etc, please feel free to show us ...
The RDBD (demoted to supporting the team Pep Guardiola manages) (U1062)
Firstly LFC pay far higher wages. We bring in a fair bit from global merchandising and have the highest paying sponser in the league.
It's just true. Don't know why you're getting so upset as you've just agreed with me!
he cant prove it but we all know that shirts sold in india, africa asia china are all black market so no money gos to the clubs and these people are just glory hunters and support teams in the top 4
so i guess liverpools world wide fan base must be disappearing quicker than the artic ice flows
wearethefamousthfc1882 :
Of course he can't.
Merchandising revenues would be broken down by region etc. Standard business practice, no.
Sponsorship : yes.
Sponsors operate on the premise again that the more viewers of the club, the more might be buying their wares. But again, if such stats exists, they aren't likely to be known to the club.
So in summary :
1. Big sponsorship deals = bigger .
2. No tangible data on the ROI for the "mythicals"
Liverpool fans must be happy to see their club with a much bigger fanbase with much bigger advertising income and paying their players much bigger income trailing in the wake of Spurs.
How many 'global' supporters will never choose to support Liverpool in the future due to not seeing them in the Champions league.More importantly how long will the advertisers be prepared to pay top dollar to a team with no Champions league presence
Are all Spurs fans pedant?
Does sponsership not come under merchandising?
Small club. Small club mentality?
We are trailing in Spurs wake? With what exactly? Could someone please tell me what Spurs have achieved? I'm looking at their record and it says;
League Cup 2008.
Oooooh, I'm green with envy
Living in the past again Robbing_Hoody (U6374) you must be a real LFC fan.
Indiana Patel the new Bill Kenwright (U11558)
Yawn. Are you a teenager by any chance?
We pay bigger wages than Spurs. Someone asked why Spurs don't pay big wages, I answered, and I'm right. No-one has been able to argue otherwise.
Back to work for me. In the meantime why don't you try and come up with something with at least a semblence of constructiveness. There's a good lad.
We are trailing in Spurs wake? With what exactly? Could someone please tell me what Spurs have achieved?
==
Care to look at the league table now?
Or at the end of last season?
Or the season before that?
Face it. Your team is no longer any good.
Well done for your past .
Apologies for the present
Commiserations for the future
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Robbing_Hoody (U6374)
But with all that extra revenue how come you have failed to qualify to qualify for the Champions league over the past few seasons and even now you are going to struggle to qualify for next years tournament,
Almost every Liverpool supporter to a man/woman/child has used the excuse of not spending the amounts other teams do(man city/chelsea/utd) but you are at least 2 years behind Spurs squad wise and yet you generate so much more income and pay so much more in wages?
Can you please explain this? and could you please explain it without your usual insults
Sharron Lennon (U11892)
Erm, so what have Spurs achieved then? Do you get an open top bus for that?
The future - we're all right thanks.
Here is a prediction. Harry goes to manage England at the end of the year. Lots of Spurs players get offered decent wages at clubs that actually win things and now Redknapps not there the team breaks up.
LFC, on the other hand, are owned by 17 millionnaire and billionnaires who only bought the club for one reason - profit.
This is most easily generated by being in the CL so they will keep throwing money at it until it happens.
The future? Look pretty good thanks. I've been watching football to know it happens in cycles. Some clubs are always there or there abouts and some arn't. Which of those do you think Spurs falls into?
comment by Robbing_Hoody (U6374)
LFC, on the other hand, are owned by 17 millionnaire and billionnaires who only bought the club for one reason - profit.
How long will they be prepared to wait and how much would they be prepared to splash out to achieve these goals?..if they are looking to make a profit they will have a ceiling spending wise
Typical cockneys, embracing mediocrity like it's some sort of achievement...
comment by Indiana Patel the new Bill Kenwright (U11558)
posted 32 minutes ago
Liverpool fans must be happy to see their club with a much bigger fanbase with much bigger advertising income and paying their players much bigger income trailing in the wake of Spurs.
How many 'global' supporters will never choose to support Liverpool in the future due to not seeing them in the Champions league.More importantly how long will the advertisers be prepared to pay top dollar to a team with no Champions league presence
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trailing in the wake? I'm sorry did Spurs win something I wasn't aware of?
comment by Bring Back Rushies Moustache (U6045)
Tick tock tick tock 22 years and counting.
Here is a prediction
===
Stopped reading here.
Here's mine.
Liverpool fans soon realise that 'King Kenny' actually has no idea how to manage a modern day side. He gets away with Liverpool finishing mid-table for 2 years before the fans' blind-sightedness finally clears.
John Henry realises he splashed £90m on Carroll, Downing, Adam, Henderson, and none of them are actually any good. He sells for a small loss before the going gets too tough.
Good eh?
"I've been watching football to know it happens in cycles"
Then it'll be easier to take when you continue fighting for 7th
Sign in if you want to comment
David Villa up for grabs?
Page 5 of 8
6 | 7 | 8
posted on 14/12/11
ohh sorry i forgot about liverpool , lets make it the big 7 so you can be included again, i would hate to see you crying
posted on 14/12/11
comment by wearethefamousthfc1882 (U10288)
posted 1 minute ago
yeh its shame we dont pay big wages to the likes of fat boy carrol and chubby adams like you do
Must be great to see your hard earned busker playing money to go down the drain like that
--------------------------------------------------------------
Both players who turned Spurs down. Come on stop or we're gonna have to introduce a top five of idiotic comments of the day, where you'd probably have three entries already.
posted on 14/12/11
comment by The Adventures Of Batmanu Eboué & Robin Van Persie - Part time Napoli & Basel fan here. LAM (U2725) posted 3 seconds ago
100
---
Yeah, forget big 4, 5, 6 or 7, you're all in the big 100 and so are Ipswich.
posted on 14/12/11
To answer the OP I reckon Ade and Villa would be an amazing partnership. They way both of them play I think they would really compliment each other. I'm not so sure about Suarez and Villa though, not even sure how an RVP/Villa partnership would work.
I doubt he will ever come to England to be honest and I'm certain he won't be going anywhere this January unless he fancies a trip to China to partner Anelka that is.
posted on 14/12/11
spurs 4.0 liverpool ..
As Jim royal qwould say
BIG CLUB MY AR_SE
posted on 14/12/11
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15017076
Tottenham Hotspur's rallying slogan "Glory Glory" could soon be transformed into the slightly more 21st Century sounding "Flair, Style and Adventure" as the club embarks on a major business rebranding.
The north London team is looking to reach out its a potentially huge fan base around the world, and then leverage that global interest in Spurs to hopefully sign a number of new sponsorship deals.
At the heart of it all is the concept that there is a huge, as-yet-untapped, "brand" at the core of the club.
All this is based on a solid foundation of a continued and growing demand for Premier League football around the world, which is broadcast in 207 countries.
Around the world Premier League football was watched on TV last year by 3.9 billion people, 1.24 billion of them in Asia alone.
"The appetite is growing," says Tottenham Hotspur executive director Charlie Wijeratna, a former lawyer and investment banker.
"On top of this Premier League platform you have Tottenham Hotspur. The interest is massive in Asia, including China.
"There are more people outside the UK who like and follow Spurs than there are inside the UK."
The club sells out every match at its 36,500 capacity White Hart Lane ground, has 23,500 season ticket holders, and a further 32,000 people on a paid-for waiting list for season tickets.
'Zero revenues'
However, he says that while Spurs has an estimated three million core fans in the UK, there are another 179 million supporters in other parts of the world who follow the team's fortunes.
Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote
How do we create value for sponsors from all these people who want to support us?”
Charlie Wijeratna Tottenham Hotspur FC
After Asia the next most popular sphere is in sub-Saharan Africa, including South Africa, where the club has been a trailblazer in terms of touring.
"But we drive zero revenues from these 179 million fans at present," says Mr Wijeratna at a Sports Marketing 360 event in London.
"Manchester United are three to four years ahead of us in this. Very few other clubs derive any income from all these people who care about them overseas."
He adds: "How do we create value for sponsors from all these people who want to support us?"
Mr Wijeratna said there were currently aspects of sponsoring a football club that could be gauged - such as the value of tickets and hospitality.
Spurs in action against Orlando Pirates in South Africa in summer 2011 Spurs are popular in sub-Saharan Africa, including in South Africa
Media value can also be measured in terms of LED advertising, backdrop boarding and programme and magazine advertisements.
But he said these tangible and measurable benefits were small compared to the "intangible" benefits of being associated with the Spurs brand.
"Tottenham Hotspur's brand is the club's most valuable asset," asserts Mr Wijeratna
"The greatest value of a sponsorship lies in being associated with the brand - the marks, imagery and values."
And he said the power of the brand could be harnessed for the benefit of commercial partners of Spurs.
'Distinctive brand'
"We play attractive football, that is something that goes back to the start of the last century," says Mr Wijeratna, who joined Spurs last November from London 2012 Olympic Games organisers Locog.
Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote
We will be giving commercial partners access to something people want to be involved with”
Charlie Wijeratna Tottenham Hotspur FC
"We want people to think about what makes us different - Spurs has a distinctive brand around these issues of flair, style and adventure."
He said the club had gone through a thorough process to work out what made Tottenham Hotspur different from other clubs.
Now the club is to launch a new website in November, along with a new coherent brand image which makes use of Spurs' famous cockerel logo.
"We are trying to find commercial partners who value [the Spurs brand]," Mr Wijeratna says.
"We will be giving commercial partners access to something people want to be involved with."
He said that although Spurs had sold, via the Premier League, the TV rights to its live league matches, it had other valuable media assets.
Tottenham Hotspur fans in Hong Kong The club is launching a new website to help connect with its fans around the globe
"We own the access to our players at all other times, such as training," says Mr Wijeratna.
"We can create bespoke content, filming training for example. There is an immense interest in the players and in this side of things.
"At the moment I don't think the club is really making the most of that."
He said the best way to use all this potential content was with sponsors, who could run commercial programmes off the back of this "compelling content".
Stadium issues
The club received a boost earlier this week when it signed a planning agreement to build a new stadium at the 20-acre Northumberland Park site next to White Hart Lane.
"This will be the best stadium in the country," says Mr Wijeratna.
"It has been designed with the fan experience as the most important thing."
He said the club, which is currently building a new state-of-the-art training complex, desperately needed a new, bigger, stadium.
White Hart Lane stadium The capacity at White Hart Lane is not big enough to meet demand
"We are one of two or three clubs in the country who can fill a 60,000 stadium relatively easily," he says.
"At present we cannot fulfil demand. Also, Arsenal and Manchester United take considerably more revenue from each home game than we do, that is because of the size of the stadium."
When the club played Real Madrid in the quarter-final of last year's Champions League, they only had 5,000 tickets available for sale and 70,000 applications to buy them.
Tottenham, however, have not given up hope of becoming the long-term tenants of the Olympic Stadium after next year's Games.
They have mounted a legal challenge against West Ham's current winning bid.
Mr Wijeratna said the decision to also apply to use the Olympic Stadium was a prudent business decision, but would not comment further because of the ongoing legal case.
Financial fair play
According to the latest Deloitte analysis of the football club business in Europe, the club was the tenth biggest in the continent - and by extension the world - in terms of revenues.
"When financial fair play kicks in that will change the balance," says Mr Wijeratna, referring to the new Uefa monetary guidelines which state clubs can only spend the revenues their business brings in.
He said it meant clubs like Manchester City and Chelsea would no longer be able to rely on the deep pockets of their owners.
"Spurs makes an operating profit, and has done for a long time," says the former Sky television executive.
"Very quietly Spurs is getting 'with it'. We are going on a journey, and it is going to be very exciting."
posted on 14/12/11
So far this week we're supposed to be signing Kaka, Tevez, Torres and now Villa.
-----------Friedel
-----------Kaboul
------Parker---Modric
Lennon-Kaka-VDV-Bale
-----Tevez-Ade-Villa
I know Kaboul's playing well but I think we're asking a bit much of him...
posted on 14/12/11
Torres would be on the bench, obviously
posted on 14/12/11
"Okay - seeing as you have no definitive data so actually cannot prove me wrong - why don't Spurs pay big wages."
Massive cannot understand English .
Spurs cannot pay these big wages because they do not have the revenues.
But neither do Liverpool. And probably several other PL clubs.
Specifically, SIGNIFICANT revenues derived from the mythical "massive fanbase worldwide" .
Now, if you have DEFINITIVE DATA that shows the Pooools' revenue is derived from the mythicals dipping into their pockets, buying replica kit etc, please feel free to show us ...
posted on 14/12/11
The RDBD (demoted to supporting the team Pep Guardiola manages) (U1062)
Firstly LFC pay far higher wages. We bring in a fair bit from global merchandising and have the highest paying sponser in the league.
It's just true. Don't know why you're getting so upset as you've just agreed with me!
posted on 14/12/11
he cant prove it but we all know that shirts sold in india, africa asia china are all black market so no money gos to the clubs and these people are just glory hunters and support teams in the top 4
so i guess liverpools world wide fan base must be disappearing quicker than the artic ice flows
posted on 14/12/11
wearethefamousthfc1882 :
Of course he can't.
Merchandising revenues would be broken down by region etc. Standard business practice, no.
Sponsorship : yes.
Sponsors operate on the premise again that the more viewers of the club, the more might be buying their wares. But again, if such stats exists, they aren't likely to be known to the club.
So in summary :
1. Big sponsorship deals = bigger .
2. No tangible data on the ROI for the "mythicals"
posted on 14/12/11
Liverpool fans must be happy to see their club with a much bigger fanbase with much bigger advertising income and paying their players much bigger income trailing in the wake of Spurs.
How many 'global' supporters will never choose to support Liverpool in the future due to not seeing them in the Champions league.More importantly how long will the advertisers be prepared to pay top dollar to a team with no Champions league presence
posted on 14/12/11
Are all Spurs fans pedant?
Does sponsership not come under merchandising?
Small club. Small club mentality?
We are trailing in Spurs wake? With what exactly? Could someone please tell me what Spurs have achieved? I'm looking at their record and it says;
League Cup 2008.
Oooooh, I'm green with envy
posted on 14/12/11
Living in the past again Robbing_Hoody (U6374) you must be a real LFC fan.
posted on 14/12/11
Indiana Patel the new Bill Kenwright (U11558)
Yawn. Are you a teenager by any chance?
We pay bigger wages than Spurs. Someone asked why Spurs don't pay big wages, I answered, and I'm right. No-one has been able to argue otherwise.
Back to work for me. In the meantime why don't you try and come up with something with at least a semblence of constructiveness. There's a good lad.
posted on 14/12/11
We are trailing in Spurs wake? With what exactly? Could someone please tell me what Spurs have achieved?
==
Care to look at the league table now?
Or at the end of last season?
Or the season before that?
Face it. Your team is no longer any good.
Well done for your past .
Apologies for the present
Commiserations for the future
posted on 14/12/11
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 14/12/11
comment by Robbing_Hoody (U6374)
But with all that extra revenue how come you have failed to qualify to qualify for the Champions league over the past few seasons and even now you are going to struggle to qualify for next years tournament,
Almost every Liverpool supporter to a man/woman/child has used the excuse of not spending the amounts other teams do(man city/chelsea/utd) but you are at least 2 years behind Spurs squad wise and yet you generate so much more income and pay so much more in wages?
Can you please explain this? and could you please explain it without your usual insults
posted on 14/12/11
Sharron Lennon (U11892)
Erm, so what have Spurs achieved then? Do you get an open top bus for that?
The future - we're all right thanks.
Here is a prediction. Harry goes to manage England at the end of the year. Lots of Spurs players get offered decent wages at clubs that actually win things and now Redknapps not there the team breaks up.
LFC, on the other hand, are owned by 17 millionnaire and billionnaires who only bought the club for one reason - profit.
This is most easily generated by being in the CL so they will keep throwing money at it until it happens.
The future? Look pretty good thanks. I've been watching football to know it happens in cycles. Some clubs are always there or there abouts and some arn't. Which of those do you think Spurs falls into?
posted on 14/12/11
comment by Robbing_Hoody (U6374)
LFC, on the other hand, are owned by 17 millionnaire and billionnaires who only bought the club for one reason - profit.
How long will they be prepared to wait and how much would they be prepared to splash out to achieve these goals?..if they are looking to make a profit they will have a ceiling spending wise
posted on 14/12/11
Typical cockneys, embracing mediocrity like it's some sort of achievement...
posted on 14/12/11
comment by Indiana Patel the new Bill Kenwright (U11558)
posted 32 minutes ago
Liverpool fans must be happy to see their club with a much bigger fanbase with much bigger advertising income and paying their players much bigger income trailing in the wake of Spurs.
How many 'global' supporters will never choose to support Liverpool in the future due to not seeing them in the Champions league.More importantly how long will the advertisers be prepared to pay top dollar to a team with no Champions league presence
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trailing in the wake? I'm sorry did Spurs win something I wasn't aware of?
posted on 14/12/11
comment by Bring Back Rushies Moustache (U6045)
Tick tock tick tock 22 years and counting.
posted on 14/12/11
Here is a prediction
===
Stopped reading here.
Here's mine.
Liverpool fans soon realise that 'King Kenny' actually has no idea how to manage a modern day side. He gets away with Liverpool finishing mid-table for 2 years before the fans' blind-sightedness finally clears.
John Henry realises he splashed £90m on Carroll, Downing, Adam, Henderson, and none of them are actually any good. He sells for a small loss before the going gets too tough.
Good eh?
"I've been watching football to know it happens in cycles"
Then it'll be easier to take when you continue fighting for 7th
Page 5 of 8
6 | 7 | 8