comment by Don Vito (U4098)
posted 6 minutes ago

What on earth are you on about?
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It's pretty clear what I'm on about, we were coasting with 5 games to go, you're not coasting because you lost to your rivals 6-1 at home, or have you've selectively forgotten that memory - I don't blame you.

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What has this got to do with anything?

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The point is by putting out an unbeatable team we were completely dominant that season, that's why it's such a great achievement, because we stopped our main rivals in their tracks by not letting them take points of of us.

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Nobody on here has denied what a great achievement your unbeaten (in the league only) season was.

It was a great achievment.

However, quite a few of us think there were better achievements, like our season in 99 and Chelsea's in 2005.

I am not sure why this keeps upsetting you lot so much.

@ Busby - I didn't say that anywhere and of course I wouldn't. But we went unbeaten and won the league, and that is what we are talking about. And yes, in my opinion, the number of points is not the most important thing. The most important thing is winning the league, then going unbeaten. The final points tally is essentially unimportant if you win the league. As a team you can only beat what is in front of you.

Quite frankly I don't believe you are interested in debating this you just want to lord it over the Arsenal fans. But that's your perogative and I couldn't care less what you think, I'm interested to know why United fans think that way, and whether neutrals agree with them or with the Arsenal fans. From people I speak to who don't support either team, that invincible team was the greatest they have ever seen in the premier league. So I don't think you belittling Arsenal's achievements is likely to carry much weight on this forum or any other.

The other thing which counts is the calibre of the opposition. This season the premier league has clearly not been the highest standard. That Arsenal team contained a large number of world cup winners, and that rivalry is regularly what Utd fans on these boards say they miss. It was the battles between Vieira and Keane, RVN and Henry, etc. that really lit up the league back then. Now all the league's best players have gone to Spain. Players that didn't cut it in Europe come over here and light up our league. Rooney is somehow one of the league's best strikers, Carrick one of the best midfielders. Those two couldn't hold a candle up to RVN and Scholes and Keane. And I think the Utd fans on here know it. The treble season was where Utd just squeaked home to three trophies somehow, and it was a major achievement because the competition was there all the way along. There were a lot of close run things for the next few season and we did not win the league as often as we should have. Then in 2003-2004 we finally lived up to our potential and delivered the "perfect" league campaign.

There are United fans on here who don't want to acknowledge that. Fair enough. But the fans of other teams did, the media did, even the FA did with a commemorative trophy. If United went a season unbeaten you wouldn't be playing it down. I don't believe all these United fans genuinely believe the argument they are making on here. Maybe I am wrong. But in my experience United fans are very unwilling to admit their team has any flaws/failings at all.

What has this got to do with anything?

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It has everything to do with it, it puts into context the achievement, after all this is what we're debating, right? You overcome your rival by getting a high points tally despite losing to them, brilliant We overcome our rivals by not letting them beat us, brilliant

The one you choose is down to you, the unbeaten season I would choose every time because for me that's a special way to win the league and I will put across passionately why from a spectator point of view that means more to me than higher points - because going out their with an unbeatable mentality and stopping our rivals in our tracks in that manner is something I've never seen us do before and most likely won't again. We set out our stall with a you're not getting past us attitide. We did that all season, every game, tough, focused, disciplined.


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I am not sure why this keeps upsetting you lot so much.

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It doesn't upset me, and I get efed off with all this meta-commentary. People ask for a debate, I'll give you clear reasons as to why it's such a great achievement.

If United went a season unbeaten you wouldn't be playing it down.

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No one has played it down for the love of god.

Please get over yourselves. I know you haven't won anything since 2005, but please don't pretend this makes you any better than you are.

When you count up your 'trophies won' haul, you don't get an extra one because you were unbeaten in the league.

Walrus

Nobody is playing it down

Maybe the fact you kept playing a strong team in the league cost you in other competitions, who knows.

One thing is for sure, I would never agree that the best team in the PL era was a team that couldn't win a CL if there are other teams that have done so, particularly the United 99 side.

Where did the invinucibles get to in other comps that season just out of interest? Saves me looking it up if you laready know

I'll give you clear reasons as to why it's such a great achievement.

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See comment above.

For the last time, no one is disputing it was a great achievement.

And for the last time, if I come onto a thread where people ask which is the better achievement I'm going to give reasons as to why it's such a great achievement.

macca

We beat them in the semis of the FA Cup

Boro beat them twice in the semis of the CC


They were beaten three times altogether in the CL reaching the QF's where Chelsea beat them.

comment by Don Vito (U4098)
posted 3 minutes ago

And for the last time, if I come onto a thread where people ask which is the better achievement I'm going to give reasons as to why it's such a great achievement.

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I haven't disputed any of your reasons.

Just put better ones forward, as to why their have been better acheivements in a season by a team.

For example, would you consider that season to be Arsenals best ever season, or would it be one of the ones you won the double in, or even the one you got to the CL final in?

We're not talking about the double or the treble. Have you read the original post?

I like the way you say you've put forward "better" reasons but have spent the large portion of this thread calling people stupid and asking them why they're upset. If you actually started defending why this season would mean so much to you if that happens rather than pretending to be objective and rational I'd begin to believe you're a passionate fan rather than just some fly by that wants to give it some.

comment by Don Vito (U4098)
posted 4 seconds ago

We're not talking about the double or the treble. Have you read the original post?

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I see, you are afraid to answer the question, exactly what I expected.

To the rest of us, and this one might include Fred, a football season consists of the league and the cup competitions that your team enters.

I base the greatest achievements on how a team fares in all competitions, I don't limit it to one, to make me feel good about myself.

Liverpools season in 1977 was far superior to Arsenals 'invincible (in the league only)' season.

Not afraid to answer just don't want to spend all day here debating completely different points because I don't seem to have the black hole of time you have. Nor would I want to with someone's who's main point of debate is to ask why someone is upset or call them stupid. But you think you've won something if that makes you feel better, I'm taking a rough guess that this is the core of why you affiliate yourself with particular clubs.

comment by Don Vito (U4098)
posted 11 minutes ago

Not afraid to answer just don't want to spend all day here debating completely different points

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If you think a football season is just league games, then I can't really help you anymore.

You can't talk about an unbeaten in the league season, and not consider cup matches. The cups have an affect on your season, whether you want to believe it or not.

Next time, maybe the OP should just try not to make the goal posts so narrow when trying to big up your team.

It really is pathetic, to be honest.

So to recap:

Arsenal's unbeaten (in the league only) season was a fantastic achievement.

But there have been better seasons (all competitions) by a host of other clubs.

You can't talk about an unbeaten in the league season, and not consider cup matches. The cups have an affect on your season, whether you want to believe it or not.
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I raised that point earlier, most people chose to ignore it. Like I've been saying, it's all subjective. I can fully understand why people would consider going unbeaten the greater achievement, and why people would prefer a points total.

I just dislike this notion that it is not debateable, when evidently, it is.

If you think a football season is just league games, then I can't really help you anymore.

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Do point out where I've said that.

You seem to be having a completely different debate to the one stated by the OP and keep making assumptions about what other people think and how they feel.

The parameters for the debate were pretty clear, not my problem if you don't like it.

omment by Don Vito (U4098)
posted 2 minutes ago

If you think a football season is just league games, then I can't really help you anymore.

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Do point out where I've said that.

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That is where you have been pointing me, to stick within the OP's perameters.

Or have you conveniently forgot this?

Telling you to stick to the debate in which the cups are irrelevant because in the two seasons compared both clubs were knocked out of the cups, is different from stating that only league games count.

If you want to debate over invicibles v another team then start a thread, it's really not so hard to understand.

If you want to debate over invicibles v another team then start a thread, it's really not so hard to understand.

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Oh, you only want Arsenal to be included in the deabte, and no one else.

Why didn't you say so.

Glad you have cleared that myopic view of things up.

Oh, you only want Arsenal to be included in the deabte, and no one else.

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Do point out where I've said that. Thanks.

Do point out where I've said that. Thanks.


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No problem, here we go:

If you want to debate over invicibles v another team then start a thread

have you read the bit that says "another team"

comment by Don Vito (U4098)
posted 6 minutes ago

have you read the bit that says "another team"

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Yes, that is the bit that tells me you only want to debate about Arsenal.

Jesus, you are not the sharpest knife in the drawer are you?

Oh, you only want Arsenal to be included in the deabte, and no one else.
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Ah so "another team" according to your sharp tools of reading comprehension means "only" Arsenal rather than any other team. I see.

Wow, you're really sharp. No wonder you spend all day on ja606 putting those tools to work.

comment by Don Vito (U4098)
posted 9 minutes ago

Oh, you only want Arsenal to be included in the deabte, and no one else.
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Ah so "another team" according to your sharp tools of reading comprehension means "only" Arsenal rather than any other team. I see.


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I would think that any normal person would reason it that way.

'If you want to debate over invicibles v another team then start a thread'.

I am assuming that you mean Arsenal by 'invincibles' and anyone other than Arsenal by 'other team'.

What are you saying you mean, just out of warped curiosity.

Oh, you only want Arsenal to be included in the deabte, and no one else.

I am assuming that you mean Arsenal by 'invincibles' and anyone other than Arsenal by 'other team'.
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Can you see how the "anyone other than Arsenal" isn't the same as "you only want Arsenal to be included in the deabte,"