Spain were the best team all tournament so I’m not gonna be too harsh on Southgate. Losing narrowly to a top side is different to struggling against Slovenia.

But I do think that England could also have been seen as a top side like Spain with a braver manager.

comment by CSTP (U1453)
posted 49 seconds ago
Watkins wasn’t even good but he offered so much more than Kane. That much was obvious so why are we artificially limiting ourselves for the first hour before doing that. Most teams try to win from the start. Why handicap yourself when it’s already difficult enough.
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Absolutely. The best teams will punish you if you give them a head start like we did. Basically played with one arm tied behind our backs for the first 60 mins

And then everyone praises him for the subs lol. If you’re consistently looking better after taking off the players who started the match, maybe it’s a sign that they shouldn’t be starting.

Still so much talent in our squad and orhers coming through. Pick a good next manager and we can absolutely challenge in the next WC and Euros.

We lack of progressive passer in midfield that can control a game - that's been an issue for 20 years.

We also just lack any coherence or fluidity up front.

Kane might be too old at the next World Cup, and there aren’t any great young strikers coming through (it could have been Greenwood, but obviously that’s not an option). But he played like an old man this tournament too, so that probably won’t make much difference.

Get ready for Potter lads

Comment on BBC:

"At this tournament we saw the limit of Southgate’s ability as a manager - we did not see the limit of what this group of players can achieve."

Pretty much nail on the head.

comment by minididi (U17584)
posted 24 seconds ago
Comment on BBC:

"At this tournament we saw the limit of Southgate’s ability as a manager - we did not see the limit of what this group of players can achieve."

Pretty much nail on the head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yep. Spot on.

comment by minididi (U17584)
posted 4 seconds ago
Comment on BBC:

"At this tournament we saw the limit of Southgate’s ability as a manager - we did not see the limit of what this group of players can achieve."

Pretty much nail on the head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I half agree - we also just don't have several crucial types of players you often need to win international football tournaments.

comment by NPE - Maresca's Minions (U22712)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by minididi (U17584)
posted 4 seconds ago
Comment on BBC:

"At this tournament we saw the limit of Southgate’s ability as a manager - we did not see the limit of what this group of players can achieve."

Pretty much nail on the head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I half agree - we also just don't have several crucial types of players you often need to win international football tournaments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There’s not one formula tho. You have a side capable of far better than what they were set up to do. It won’t be one crucial player that changes things. It’ll be the system. It’ll be proactive managing. And a lack of stubbornness where someone is more fluid and accepting of changes and rotation.

comment by NPE - Maresca's Minions (U22712)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by minididi (U17584)
posted 4 seconds ago
Comment on BBC:

"At this tournament we saw the limit of Southgate’s ability as a manager - we did not see the limit of what this group of players can achieve."

Pretty much nail on the head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I half agree - we also just don't have several crucial types of players you often need to win international football tournaments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Could have won 2 - 1 was 100% down to the manager and we were the better team, and 1 the manager was partially at fault and we narrowly lost to the best team in the tournament. We were also a whisker away from a WC final - so the players are there.

Pickford - 7
Walker - 3
Guehi - 6
Stones - 6
Shaw - 6
Mainoo - 5
Rice - 4
Bellingham - 5
Foden - 4
Kane - 1
Saka - 6
---------
Palmer - 7
Watkins - 6
Toney - N/A

comment by NPE - Maresca's Minions (U22712)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by minididi (U17584)
posted 4 seconds ago
Comment on BBC:

"At this tournament we saw the limit of Southgate’s ability as a manager - we did not see the limit of what this group of players can achieve."

Pretty much nail on the head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I half agree - we also just don't have several crucial types of players you often need to win international football tournaments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, we had three supposed top midfielders on the pitch,yet could not get control of the game. Our players were not good enough to play out from the back and beat their press. Pickford kept kicking long played I to Spain's hands

Rice not even hitting the target with that final header was appalling

comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by NPE - Maresca's Minions (U22712)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by minididi (U17584)
posted 4 seconds ago
Comment on BBC:

"At this tournament we saw the limit of Southgate’s ability as a manager - we did not see the limit of what this group of players can achieve."

Pretty much nail on the head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I half agree - we also just don't have several crucial types of players you often need to win international football tournaments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Could have won 2 - 1 was 100% down to the manager and we were the better team, and 1 the manager was partially at fault and we narrowly lost to the best team in the tournament. We were also a whisker away from a WC final - so the players are there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think there's more reason to that for our inability to control games.

Everyone mocked Southgate saying we miss Kalvin Phillips, but what we do miss is the Modric, Jorginho, Rodri/Zubimendi type of midfielder that controls games and ensures we keep the ball. Our passivity is more than a mindset issue imo.

comment by CSTP (U1453)
posted less than a minute ago
Rice not even hitting the target with that final header was appalling
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well he hit it at the start of that play

comment by NPE - Maresca's Minions (U22712)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by NPE - Maresca's Minions (U22712)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by minididi (U17584)
posted 4 seconds ago
Comment on BBC:

"At this tournament we saw the limit of Southgate’s ability as a manager - we did not see the limit of what this group of players can achieve."

Pretty much nail on the head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I half agree - we also just don't have several crucial types of players you often need to win international football tournaments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Could have won 2 - 1 was 100% down to the manager and we were the better team, and 1 the manager was partially at fault and we narrowly lost to the best team in the tournament. We were also a whisker away from a WC final - so the players are there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think there's more reason to that for our inability to control games.

Everyone mocked Southgate saying we miss Kalvin Phillips, but what we do miss is the Modric, Jorginho, Rodri/Zubimendi type of midfielder that controls games and ensures we keep the ball. Our passivity is more than a mindset issue imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly, we needed prime Jorghi, Kova and Kante. That's the type of players we lack. Rice brutally exposed as average at this level.

comment by CSTP (U1453)
posted 1 minute ago
Rice not even hitting the target with that final header was appalling
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Rice's bigger issue is that for all his assets his progressive passing is average at this level. That bothers me more than whether he can react to a header with the instincts of a striker.

comment by NPE - Maresca's Minions (U22712)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by NPE - Maresca's Minions (U22712)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by minididi (U17584)
posted 4 seconds ago
Comment on BBC:

"At this tournament we saw the limit of Southgate’s ability as a manager - we did not see the limit of what this group of players can achieve."

Pretty much nail on the head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I half agree - we also just don't have several crucial types of players you often need to win international football tournaments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Could have won 2 - 1 was 100% down to the manager and we were the better team, and 1 the manager was partially at fault and we narrowly lost to the best team in the tournament. We were also a whisker away from a WC final - so the players are there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think there's more reason to that for our inability to control games.

Everyone mocked Southgate saying we miss Kalvin Phillips, but what we do miss is the Modric, Jorginho, Rodri/Zubimendi type of midfielder that controls games and ensures we keep the ball. Our passivity is more than a mindset issue imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh but that will happen though when we set up too defensively. Don't need Mainoo and Rice as 4s. We had huge gaps in MF cos we were too worried about defence. Also you gotta question personal or tactics as we were constantly stretched down our right. Saka was no where to be seen and walker was constantly on toast. Cucu on the other hand played it perfectly and had team mates covering

Williams was helping Cucu out defensively against Saka.

Meanwhile Saka didn’t help out Walker against Williams.

comment by CSTP (U1453)
posted less than a minute ago
Williams was helping Cucu out defensively against Saka.

Meanwhile Saka didn’t help out Walker against Williams.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly

Cucu was great imo

Might as well back Spainfor the WC then

Not enough being said about that low cross too. Perfection