He didn't actually do much conquering though did he? It gives the impression that he put in one hell of a monster performance. He was mostly quite anoymous
However I cannot unknow my knowledge and so it is very hard to say
----------------------------------------------
No it's not hard to say what you see in the cartoon. I will say what I see - removing all knowledge I have of King Kong.
I see a larger than life size Balotelli having climbed and reached the top of Big Ben the most iconic of buildings in England. He has just been a big part of the Italy team that knocked us out of the Euros and he's climed Big Ben in his Italy tracksuit and is laughing and saying I've conquered England.
Is this reasonable?
johnsonsbaby (U10461)
Is this reasonable?
--
not really, even the most offensive cartoon can be broken down into non-offensive ways if you completely take it as face value.
My view is that the illustrator knew exactly what he was doing and until he swears otherwise under oath that he did not, my view will not change.
I meant was it a reasonable assessment on my part as an amateur art critic on the cartoon?
Racists have made a link between black people and monkeys. John Barnes refuses to make that connection and I refuse with all my might to make that connection. The more we link images and sounds of monkeys with black people the more the racists get what they want - and the more people that buy into it the stronger the link becomes.
If nobody sees a monkey in that picture then the racists start to lose their power and a link that they want to perpetuate starts disappearing. Continuing to be upset by it fuels their fire and it will get stronger.
I don't see a monkey or any link to one in that cartoon. It is a man on a building. It really is.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
johnsonsbaby (U10461)
yes you accurately described the drawing.
I agree with most of what you say in terms of tackling racism, but I think this picture is just being antagonistic and that we can sit and pretend that there is nothing wrong with it and that there are aboslutely no connotations here and that people should not find anything wrong with it, but then you just have delusion - which is never helpful. It would be far better and far easier if this sensitive topic was not thrust into people's faces in any way at all and then things can simmer down again, then, perhaps, people will naturally stop making their own associations.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
And Neverending Story....
==
They get round that by making a sequel
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
we can sit and pretend that there is nothing wrong with it
------------------------------
I'm not pretending.
If your 'association' is that of monkey / black man and mine isn't it's down to our own personal experiences. I don't for one minute mean you are a racist or think a black man is monkey like but your 'association' as you have said is that.
and no matter what Whiskers say - eating their cat food will not make your kitten grow the size of the Houses of Parliament
For me this picture clearly illustrates an Italian footballer dominating english football. I don't think anyone can argue that that is not a perfectly valid image.
Would it have been more appropriate to have Pirlo rather than Balotelli as the subject? In the context that he was the star player yes. But does he share King Kong's character attributes that evidently resonate so clearly with Balotelli eg misunderstood, enigmatic bad boy with a soft side. No, Balotelli is a much better fit with the King Kong character.
Would it have been better to use a different character to draw parallels with? Can't think of any others that so evidently share so many attributes with Balotelli and so neatly fit the context of portraying dominance over an enemy.
But he's black and King Kong is a guerilla so it must be racist. Any other parallels between the characters that reference anything other than race must therefore be ignored.
It can represent both things. When I saw the image I took both these interpretations from it.
Which has a better chance of stamping out racism, showing that picture to a child and saying-
it's as a man on a building ............or .........
it's a man depicted as a monkey on a building ??
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
If we stop making the connection that racists want you to make, even if the artist (which I doubt) was making a racist image - don't make the connection and then they fail, he fails, and can't do it again. Keep making the connection and you can be offended ad infinitum!
Wider audience - 'oh look at Balotelli, he put those English in their place'
Artist - well that failed.
Wider audience - 'disgraceful, depicting Balotelli as a monkey'
Artist - well that went very well, what can I do next ....
Sausages eh....would you like to know what's in them??
I don't get the point of vegetarian sausages, why do you as a vegetarian want to eat something that looks like a product that disgusts you?
Perhaps a fly flew in and got stuck on your brown sauce, without you knowing.
Christ is this still going?
johnsonsbaby (U10461)
....
Wider audience - 'disgraceful, depicting Balotelli as a monkey'
Artist - oh dear this has severely damaged my reputation
Other Artists - Let's not make the same mistake he made
There are two possible routes through this as you see,
Cobnob (U12084)
welcome back!
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 4 minutes ago
Perhaps a fly flew in and got stuck on your brown sauce, without you knowing.
===
How the hell did you know I had brown sauce?
Bet you cant guess what number I am think of now......brown sauce, just a lucky guess!
comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 1 minute ago
johnsonsbaby (U10461)
....
Wider audience - 'disgraceful, depicting Balotelli as a monkey'
Artist - oh dear this has severely damaged my reputation
Other Artists - Let's not make the same mistake he made
There are two possible routes through this as you see,
------------------------------------
No chance. Artist will never stop showing their work just because people bring race into it.
Sign in if you want to comment
Race Row or...
Page 13 of 21
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posted on 28/6/12
He didn't actually do much conquering though did he? It gives the impression that he put in one hell of a monster performance. He was mostly quite anoymous
posted on 28/6/12
However I cannot unknow my knowledge and so it is very hard to say
----------------------------------------------
No it's not hard to say what you see in the cartoon. I will say what I see - removing all knowledge I have of King Kong.
I see a larger than life size Balotelli having climbed and reached the top of Big Ben the most iconic of buildings in England. He has just been a big part of the Italy team that knocked us out of the Euros and he's climed Big Ben in his Italy tracksuit and is laughing and saying I've conquered England.
Is this reasonable?
posted on 28/6/12
johnsonsbaby (U10461)
Is this reasonable?
--
not really, even the most offensive cartoon can be broken down into non-offensive ways if you completely take it as face value.
My view is that the illustrator knew exactly what he was doing and until he swears otherwise under oath that he did not, my view will not change.
posted on 28/6/12
I meant was it a reasonable assessment on my part as an amateur art critic on the cartoon?
Racists have made a link between black people and monkeys. John Barnes refuses to make that connection and I refuse with all my might to make that connection. The more we link images and sounds of monkeys with black people the more the racists get what they want - and the more people that buy into it the stronger the link becomes.
If nobody sees a monkey in that picture then the racists start to lose their power and a link that they want to perpetuate starts disappearing. Continuing to be upset by it fuels their fire and it will get stronger.
I don't see a monkey or any link to one in that cartoon. It is a man on a building. It really is.
posted on 28/6/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/6/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/6/12
johnsonsbaby (U10461)
yes you accurately described the drawing.
I agree with most of what you say in terms of tackling racism, but I think this picture is just being antagonistic and that we can sit and pretend that there is nothing wrong with it and that there are aboslutely no connotations here and that people should not find anything wrong with it, but then you just have delusion - which is never helpful. It would be far better and far easier if this sensitive topic was not thrust into people's faces in any way at all and then things can simmer down again, then, perhaps, people will naturally stop making their own associations.
posted on 28/6/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/6/12
And Neverending Story....
==
They get round that by making a sequel
posted on 28/6/12
posted on 28/6/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/6/12
we can sit and pretend that there is nothing wrong with it
------------------------------
I'm not pretending.
If your 'association' is that of monkey / black man and mine isn't it's down to our own personal experiences. I don't for one minute mean you are a racist or think a black man is monkey like but your 'association' as you have said is that.
and no matter what Whiskers say - eating their cat food will not make your kitten grow the size of the Houses of Parliament
posted on 28/6/12
For me this picture clearly illustrates an Italian footballer dominating english football. I don't think anyone can argue that that is not a perfectly valid image.
Would it have been more appropriate to have Pirlo rather than Balotelli as the subject? In the context that he was the star player yes. But does he share King Kong's character attributes that evidently resonate so clearly with Balotelli eg misunderstood, enigmatic bad boy with a soft side. No, Balotelli is a much better fit with the King Kong character.
Would it have been better to use a different character to draw parallels with? Can't think of any others that so evidently share so many attributes with Balotelli and so neatly fit the context of portraying dominance over an enemy.
But he's black and King Kong is a guerilla so it must be racist. Any other parallels between the characters that reference anything other than race must therefore be ignored.
posted on 28/6/12
It can represent both things. When I saw the image I took both these interpretations from it.
posted on 28/6/12
Which has a better chance of stamping out racism, showing that picture to a child and saying-
it's as a man on a building ............or .........
it's a man depicted as a monkey on a building ??
posted on 28/6/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/6/12
If we stop making the connection that racists want you to make, even if the artist (which I doubt) was making a racist image - don't make the connection and then they fail, he fails, and can't do it again. Keep making the connection and you can be offended ad infinitum!
Wider audience - 'oh look at Balotelli, he put those English in their place'
Artist - well that failed.
Wider audience - 'disgraceful, depicting Balotelli as a monkey'
Artist - well that went very well, what can I do next ....
posted on 28/6/12
Sausages eh....would you like to know what's in them??
I don't get the point of vegetarian sausages, why do you as a vegetarian want to eat something that looks like a product that disgusts you?
posted on 28/6/12
Perhaps a fly flew in and got stuck on your brown sauce, without you knowing.
posted on 28/6/12
Christ is this still going?
posted on 28/6/12
johnsonsbaby (U10461)
....
Wider audience - 'disgraceful, depicting Balotelli as a monkey'
Artist - oh dear this has severely damaged my reputation
Other Artists - Let's not make the same mistake he made
There are two possible routes through this as you see,
posted on 28/6/12
Cobnob (U12084)
welcome back!
posted on 28/6/12
Hell no!!!
posted on 28/6/12
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 4 minutes ago
Perhaps a fly flew in and got stuck on your brown sauce, without you knowing.
===
How the hell did you know I had brown sauce?
Bet you cant guess what number I am think of now......brown sauce, just a lucky guess!
posted on 28/6/12
comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 1 minute ago
johnsonsbaby (U10461)
....
Wider audience - 'disgraceful, depicting Balotelli as a monkey'
Artist - oh dear this has severely damaged my reputation
Other Artists - Let's not make the same mistake he made
There are two possible routes through this as you see,
------------------------------------
No chance. Artist will never stop showing their work just because people bring race into it.
Page 13 of 21
14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18