The perception is by the agreived party, why don't you message Balotelli and explain he should calm down.
Its not just the colour of the skin that is different is it?
The events surrounding Balotelli and the Euro's recently have contributed to the image.
If Homer had been a victim of racial abuse previuosly then he as King Kong may have been viewed differently.
You can not just ignore recent and past history, events that occur to certain people will define how that person and events around them are percieved.
Comparing this to Homer is frankly rediculous
For me, that perception shouldn't alter just because the character changes. The symbolisation and message ought to remain the same.
------------------------------------------
Completely agree.
For me, that perception shouldn't alter just because the character changes. The symbolisation and message ought to remain the same.
Sorry in advance if this offends anyone.
There is a drawing of children playing in a yard. In one picture Mother Teresa watches over them. In another Gary Glitter.
Would your perception of the message change?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
We would do well to remember that only racists compare black people to apes.
For me an ape is an animal and when I see an ape I don't think of a person, I think of an animal. To make a connection means you are buying into the racists' insult. Stop making that connection and then the racists' ape connection ceases to have any meaning whatsoever for those of us who aren't racist!
comment by johnsonsbaby (U10461)
posted 48 seconds ago
We would do well to remember that only racists compare black people to apes.
For me an ape is an animal and when I see an ape I don't think of a person, I think of an animal. To make a connection means you are buying into the racists' insult. Stop making that connection and then the racists' ape connection ceases to have any meaning whatsoever for those of us who aren't racist!
------------------------------------------------
Exactly!
The only ape in the Premier League is Gareth Bale - my lord does that man look like a chimp!
Yep, tell the black players that the monkey noises etc are not in connection with them, racism will cease to exist.
Hate to break this to you, but humans are animals.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Anyone going to answer that ^?
I had the evolution argument in my last comment believe it or not and cut it out before posting because I thought it would open a whole new can of worms!!
Cobnob - we know what the noises are intended to be but I'm with John barnes on this. Don't give the idiots credence by giving then a minute's attention or an inch of newspaper space. He never let the racists get to him, and was determined it wouldn't alter his game or frame of mind, if it did, they won.
Black people aren't apes, stop making the connection. I have.
There is a drawing of children playing in a yard. In one picture Mother Teresa watches over them. In another Gary Glitter.
Would your perception of the message change?
-----------
i'll answer
yes my perception would change, because gary glitter is a dirty perv.
ballotelli isnt a gorilla though, so its different.
AnfieldRAP
Black people being depicted as apes/monkeys has discourse that has been ingrained into culture lasting well over a century. The "humourous" cartoons that dehumanised black people by portraying them as apes for example, which distanced black people from white people through linking black people closer to apes in evolutionary terms.
A white person/fictional character being depicted as an ape doesn't have such historical/sociological/cultural weight attached to it that is present when a black person is depicted as an ape.
So the symbolism certainly does not remain the same, simply because the cultural/historical significance attached to such symbolism is very very different.
Ridiculous! Does that mean we can't call him a 'cheeky monkey' too - a term of endearment often used, with no connotations of race? Racism is deplorable, but rubbish like this just water down the real racism issues.
If you wanted to depict a person as being innocent, batting away their evil tormenters, it would be perfectly reasonable to use King Kong as a metaphor - if you decide not to do this BECAUSE the person is black - THAT IS RACISM!!!! Racism is treating somebody differently because of the colour of their skin (or their race!).
Its allegedly Mario and his crew that have made the conection and are upset, I am just saying I understand why he is upset, nothing more.
He has the right to be upset in my opinion.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
If you wanted to depict a person as being innocent, batting away their evil tormenters, it would be perfectly reasonable to use King Kong as a metaphor - if you decide not to do this BECAUSE the person is black - THAT IS RACISM!!!! Racism is treating somebody differently because of the colour of their skin (or their race!).
----------------------
comment by Cobnob (U12084)
posted 9 seconds ago
Its allegedly Mario and his crew that have made the conection and are upset, I am just saying I understand why he is upset, nothing more.
He has the right to be upset in my opinion.
-------------------------
Who said Mario and "his crew" were upset?
comment by CutMeAndIBleedRed (U7593)
posted 1 minute ago
Ridiculous! Does that mean we can't call him a 'cheeky monkey' too - a term of endearment often used, with no connotations of race? Racism is deplorable, but rubbish like this just water down the real racism issues.
If you wanted to depict a person as being innocent, batting away their evil tormenters, it would be perfectly reasonable to use King Kong as a metaphor - if you decide not to do this BECAUSE the person is black - THAT IS RACISM!!!! Racism is treating somebody differently because of the colour of their skin (or their race!).
-----------------------------------
This is what I was getting at in the OP.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
The Mother Theresa picture is a different argument altogether.
You can't compare satire of an iconic film with a random image or images.
It says in the article
The Balotelli camp was understood to be outraged by the cartoon and Gazzetta have issued an apology.
I don't see the link?
You said perception shouldn't change because the character changes, where clearly it does.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
If you are stating things like
For me, that perception shouldn't alter just because the character changes. The symbolisation and message ought to remain the same.
I can point out that this is utter dreamers drivel any way I like.
I have stated in different circumstances the drawing probably wouldn't have merited another word, but with all the racist attention around the tournament etc has altered the way the picture has been viewed.
Theerfore the character is vital in the way the picture is portrayed. To state it doesn't matter who is in the picture is rubbish.
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Page 9 of 21
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posted on 27/6/12
The perception is by the agreived party, why don't you message Balotelli and explain he should calm down.
Its not just the colour of the skin that is different is it?
The events surrounding Balotelli and the Euro's recently have contributed to the image.
If Homer had been a victim of racial abuse previuosly then he as King Kong may have been viewed differently.
You can not just ignore recent and past history, events that occur to certain people will define how that person and events around them are percieved.
Comparing this to Homer is frankly rediculous
posted on 27/6/12
For me, that perception shouldn't alter just because the character changes. The symbolisation and message ought to remain the same.
------------------------------------------
Completely agree.
posted on 27/6/12
For me, that perception shouldn't alter just because the character changes. The symbolisation and message ought to remain the same.
Sorry in advance if this offends anyone.
There is a drawing of children playing in a yard. In one picture Mother Teresa watches over them. In another Gary Glitter.
Would your perception of the message change?
posted on 27/6/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/6/12
We would do well to remember that only racists compare black people to apes.
For me an ape is an animal and when I see an ape I don't think of a person, I think of an animal. To make a connection means you are buying into the racists' insult. Stop making that connection and then the racists' ape connection ceases to have any meaning whatsoever for those of us who aren't racist!
posted on 27/6/12
comment by johnsonsbaby (U10461)
posted 48 seconds ago
We would do well to remember that only racists compare black people to apes.
For me an ape is an animal and when I see an ape I don't think of a person, I think of an animal. To make a connection means you are buying into the racists' insult. Stop making that connection and then the racists' ape connection ceases to have any meaning whatsoever for those of us who aren't racist!
------------------------------------------------
Exactly!
posted on 27/6/12
The only ape in the Premier League is Gareth Bale - my lord does that man look like a chimp!
posted on 27/6/12
Yep, tell the black players that the monkey noises etc are not in connection with them, racism will cease to exist.
Hate to break this to you, but humans are animals.
posted on 27/6/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/6/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/6/12
Anyone going to answer that ^?
posted on 27/6/12
I had the evolution argument in my last comment believe it or not and cut it out before posting because I thought it would open a whole new can of worms!!
Cobnob - we know what the noises are intended to be but I'm with John barnes on this. Don't give the idiots credence by giving then a minute's attention or an inch of newspaper space. He never let the racists get to him, and was determined it wouldn't alter his game or frame of mind, if it did, they won.
Black people aren't apes, stop making the connection. I have.
posted on 27/6/12
There is a drawing of children playing in a yard. In one picture Mother Teresa watches over them. In another Gary Glitter.
Would your perception of the message change?
-----------
i'll answer
yes my perception would change, because gary glitter is a dirty perv.
ballotelli isnt a gorilla though, so its different.
posted on 27/6/12
AnfieldRAP
Black people being depicted as apes/monkeys has discourse that has been ingrained into culture lasting well over a century. The "humourous" cartoons that dehumanised black people by portraying them as apes for example, which distanced black people from white people through linking black people closer to apes in evolutionary terms.
A white person/fictional character being depicted as an ape doesn't have such historical/sociological/cultural weight attached to it that is present when a black person is depicted as an ape.
So the symbolism certainly does not remain the same, simply because the cultural/historical significance attached to such symbolism is very very different.
posted on 27/6/12
Ridiculous! Does that mean we can't call him a 'cheeky monkey' too - a term of endearment often used, with no connotations of race? Racism is deplorable, but rubbish like this just water down the real racism issues.
If you wanted to depict a person as being innocent, batting away their evil tormenters, it would be perfectly reasonable to use King Kong as a metaphor - if you decide not to do this BECAUSE the person is black - THAT IS RACISM!!!! Racism is treating somebody differently because of the colour of their skin (or their race!).
posted on 27/6/12
Its allegedly Mario and his crew that have made the conection and are upset, I am just saying I understand why he is upset, nothing more.
He has the right to be upset in my opinion.
posted on 27/6/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/6/12
If you wanted to depict a person as being innocent, batting away their evil tormenters, it would be perfectly reasonable to use King Kong as a metaphor - if you decide not to do this BECAUSE the person is black - THAT IS RACISM!!!! Racism is treating somebody differently because of the colour of their skin (or their race!).
----------------------
posted on 27/6/12
comment by Cobnob (U12084)
posted 9 seconds ago
Its allegedly Mario and his crew that have made the conection and are upset, I am just saying I understand why he is upset, nothing more.
He has the right to be upset in my opinion.
-------------------------
Who said Mario and "his crew" were upset?
posted on 27/6/12
comment by CutMeAndIBleedRed (U7593)
posted 1 minute ago
Ridiculous! Does that mean we can't call him a 'cheeky monkey' too - a term of endearment often used, with no connotations of race? Racism is deplorable, but rubbish like this just water down the real racism issues.
If you wanted to depict a person as being innocent, batting away their evil tormenters, it would be perfectly reasonable to use King Kong as a metaphor - if you decide not to do this BECAUSE the person is black - THAT IS RACISM!!!! Racism is treating somebody differently because of the colour of their skin (or their race!).
-----------------------------------
This is what I was getting at in the OP.
posted on 27/6/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/6/12
The Mother Theresa picture is a different argument altogether.
You can't compare satire of an iconic film with a random image or images.
posted on 27/6/12
It says in the article
The Balotelli camp was understood to be outraged by the cartoon and Gazzetta have issued an apology.
I don't see the link?
You said perception shouldn't change because the character changes, where clearly it does.
posted on 27/6/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/6/12
If you are stating things like
For me, that perception shouldn't alter just because the character changes. The symbolisation and message ought to remain the same.
I can point out that this is utter dreamers drivel any way I like.
I have stated in different circumstances the drawing probably wouldn't have merited another word, but with all the racist attention around the tournament etc has altered the way the picture has been viewed.
Theerfore the character is vital in the way the picture is portrayed. To state it doesn't matter who is in the picture is rubbish.
Page 9 of 21
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