If someone bids £150m for Saka, Arteta is not getting a say.
Arteta has a say in the decision making process over who gets sold and who comes in, but the final decision does not lie with him. This has been the case since 2018 when we restructured. He is not a manager, he's a head coach. The difference might seem subtle, but he has less responsibility.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 11 seconds ago
Why shouldn't Arsenal expect to be in the Champions League?
=======
There are 6 teams who expect to be in the CL, but only 4 places. Going into next season we are not among the 4 best placed teams to achieve that. Thus to make it the minimum requirement is not a fair demand. That is why it has to be judged on what we do, and if we do well but the 4 better placed teams do better then that is not really on the manager is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So are you dismissing what Klopp has achieved having a net spend less than us?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Klopp was given time. He wasn't sacked for finishing 8th.
Net spend doesn't tell the story of Liverpools success. They sold a player for £160m and signed a keeper and CB for £70m+ each.
Again, as said it has to be judged on what we do. The points total for top 4 is very low this season. Emery (and Poch) lost his job for failing to capatalise on it. If next season 4th is pushing 80 points and we get, say, 75, can you really punish Arteta for missing out on top 4?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never said I would. But you have to set a target and then assess why he failed. Was it down to the manager or not. You cannot excuse it before the project has even begun and say it will all someone else fault like many are doing here.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted less than a minute ago
Thats a part of management, no? I have no issues if Arteta sold Saka (player I rate the most highly home-grown ever) for £150m if he could make us title contenders.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, that is above the manager at Arsenal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Guen is being sold because Arteta wishes it. Same with every player at Arsenal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You think Arteta is negotiating the fee? Interesting.
You think Klopp was on the phone to Barca negotiating the Coutinho sale?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I don't and neither did Klopp. But I am sure Liverpool did ask Klopp we've had a bid of £140m should we sell?
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 1 minute ago
Arteta has a say in the decision making process over who gets sold and who comes in, but the final decision does not lie with him. This has been the case since 2018 when we restructured. He is not a manager, he's a head coach. The difference might seem subtle, but he has less responsibility.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same as Liverpool and at most clubs these days.
No-one has done that J99, you're just making lazy arguments like you have been doing for most of the thread because you can't be bothered to fully engage in the counter arguments.
To be frank, I'm quite sick of you doing it.
I'm going to say this one more time - either engage properly and sincerely with me or don't bother at all.
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 20 seconds ago
No-one has done that J99, you're just making lazy arguments like you have been doing for most of the thread because you can't be bothered to fully engage in the counter arguments.
To be frank, I'm quite sick of you doing it.
I'm going to say this one more time - either engage properly and sincerely with me or don't bother at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am making arguments. They are only lazy for you because you don't have an anwser to them and are determined to give Arteta a pass whatever happens.
J99, I have given you answers throughout the entire thread and all you've done is impose your own view without analysing what other people are saying to you.
You're oversimplifying the arguments and aren't reading my posts properly at all. You're accusing me of things that I haven't done and then you're putting forward lazy arguments because you can't be bothered to read what I've wrote. You're responding to your own perception of what I've said, rather than what I've actually said.
If you're going to keep doing it, and you have been doing it for ages now, then I can't be bothered to continue debating with you on this topic.
You clearly have no intention of listening to opinions that don't align with your own.
What's the point?
'Here you were having a go at me for comparing a different era to present and you are doing the same.'
Context was different though, mate.
Look, we seem to be going round in circles a bit here, and I've kinda lost the urge to continue doing so.
Sorry if it seemed like I was just trying to trip you up. Point I was making was that having realistic expectations isn't necessarily the same as lowering them.
At least not in my book.
Samir,
You have given me answer to what? I am not convinced by anything you have said. You have been continually making excuses of why Arteta is going to fail.
How hard is it for you to believe I don't think he will. I believe he will get us to the CL. Thats his job and his target. If he does fail we'll see at that time why he failed and judge then. That could be down to the manager. But it might not be. You cannot have a more open mind than that!
I have objected to his style up till now only because I don't think it will get closer to that CL target that is crucial to our finances. But I have also said almost everytime I have critiqued his style up till now that it maybe understandable with the players he has and he may change next season. I hope he does.
Do you really think Arteta is going to fail?
comment by Lexington 125.2 (U8879)
posted 1 minute ago
'Here you were having a go at me for comparing a different era to present and you are doing the same.'
Context was different though, mate.
Look, we seem to be going round in circles a bit here, and I've kinda lost the urge to continue doing so.
Sorry if it seemed like I was just trying to trip you up. Point I was making was that having realistic expectations isn't necessarily the same as lowering them.
At least not in my book.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know why its so hard to accept that I think thats not the way to go. In my experience you get what strive for and realism is often just another word for pessimism or lack of belief.
So you don't lack belief but think Arteta is going to fail?
You have been continually making excuses of why Arteta is going to fail.
-------------
I have done no such thing. And I have not said he should get a free pass no matter what - there has to be progress and I gave you my criteria for what 'progress' constitutes.
The problem is you're not looking at the external factors or other actors that we are competing with who will have a huge say on Champions League based on their spending habits and the existing conditions of their squads.
Why you ignore these, when they are very prominent factors, I don't know.
We have 6 competitors for 4 places normally. We've now had Leicester and Wolves in the mix - the latter of whom have finished in a European spot for a 2nd consecutive season after being promoted.
It is not as easy to achieve as it was in Wenger's days - you only need to see how much Man Utd have spent and struggled to see that too.
I don't know how many times you want me to repeat that we should be looking to get in there as an objective - but if he doesn't get it, it doesn't instantaneously mean he's flopped.
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 59 seconds ago
Do you really think Arteta is going to fail?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The opposite I think he will succeed because I believe in him. But I don't think he can succeed with defence first, ala Moyes, in the premier. Against the top 4, I think its great to play like Atletico, but against everyone else we should be 'scoring first and often' with the attackers we have. Had we done that against Leicester instead of trying to shut it down, or Brighton or Spurs we could have been challenging for a CL position now. I don't rate Man Utd or Chelsea or Wolves that highly.
Do you see how you can't compare him to Moyes and say that his tactics are flawed and then say you believe in him?
Samir
Excuse:
The problem is you're not looking at the external factors or other actors that we are competing with who will have a huge say on Champions League based on their spending habits and the existing conditions of their squads.
Excuse:
We have 6 competitors for 4 places normally. We've now had Leicester and Wolves in the mix - the latter of whom have finished in a European spot for a 2nd consecutive season after being promoted.
Excuse:
It is not as easy to achieve as it was in Wenger's days - you only need to see how much Man Utd have spent and struggled to see that too.
-----------------------------------------------------------
You see thats what it looks like to me. Look at the teams directly ahead of us.
Wilder, Mourinho (just installed), Nuno, Rodgers, Ole, Lampard, Klopp.
I think Arteta is good if not better than all of them. Why can't Arteta do a Klopp? you have to believe that he can and hold him to it. If you start giving him excuses before he starts how are we judge if he is doing well or not? If he does fail we can assess the issues at that point.
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 2 minutes ago
Do you see how you can't compare him to Moyes and say that his tactics are flawed and then say you believe in him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because at the moment I cannot judge if thats by design or expediency. I think that will become a little more apparent next season.
Feels a lot like you're playing both sides so you'll never have to admit you were wrong 😉
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 2 minutes ago
Feels a lot like you're playing both sides so you'll never have to admit you were wrong 😉
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double talking?
Pete doing a no show on a day when Russia & Tory collision exposed
Not very Wide Putin of him 👎
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 44 seconds ago
Feels a lot like you're playing both sides so you'll never have to admit you were wrong 😉
----------------------------------------------------------------------
By saying its too early to judge a tactic I've noticed at HT in every game we have played so far after the restart? I don't think so. It can be down to a few factors. But its a regret. We really shouldn't be hoping to qualify for a Europa at this point. We should have hoping to qualify for the CL looking at the teams we have dropped points against and how we have dropped those points by hanging back!
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 2 minutes ago
Feels a lot like you're playing both sides so you'll never have to admit you were wrong 😉
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double talking?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a little nuanced. Double talking is putting down a team that you don't say is the team you want to be picked but then saying it won't be picked either.
What the hell is double talking?
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 2 minutes ago
Feels a lot like you're playing both sides so you'll never have to admit you were wrong 😉
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double talking?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a little nuanced. Double talking is putting down a team that you don't say is the team you want to be picked but then saying it won't be picked either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was clearly written that the team posted was if Arteta wanted to change everything. It was highlighting the options he has at his disposal. Then I clearly stated I think he will make 5 or 6 changes.
Sign in if you want to comment
THE Arsenal Thread
Page 21699 of 31849
21700 | 21701 | 21702 | 21703 | 21704
posted on 21/7/20
If someone bids £150m for Saka, Arteta is not getting a say.
posted on 21/7/20
Arteta has a say in the decision making process over who gets sold and who comes in, but the final decision does not lie with him. This has been the case since 2018 when we restructured. He is not a manager, he's a head coach. The difference might seem subtle, but he has less responsibility.
posted on 21/7/20
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 11 seconds ago
Why shouldn't Arsenal expect to be in the Champions League?
=======
There are 6 teams who expect to be in the CL, but only 4 places. Going into next season we are not among the 4 best placed teams to achieve that. Thus to make it the minimum requirement is not a fair demand. That is why it has to be judged on what we do, and if we do well but the 4 better placed teams do better then that is not really on the manager is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So are you dismissing what Klopp has achieved having a net spend less than us?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Klopp was given time. He wasn't sacked for finishing 8th.
Net spend doesn't tell the story of Liverpools success. They sold a player for £160m and signed a keeper and CB for £70m+ each.
Again, as said it has to be judged on what we do. The points total for top 4 is very low this season. Emery (and Poch) lost his job for failing to capatalise on it. If next season 4th is pushing 80 points and we get, say, 75, can you really punish Arteta for missing out on top 4?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never said I would. But you have to set a target and then assess why he failed. Was it down to the manager or not. You cannot excuse it before the project has even begun and say it will all someone else fault like many are doing here.
posted on 21/7/20
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted less than a minute ago
Thats a part of management, no? I have no issues if Arteta sold Saka (player I rate the most highly home-grown ever) for £150m if he could make us title contenders.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, that is above the manager at Arsenal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Guen is being sold because Arteta wishes it. Same with every player at Arsenal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You think Arteta is negotiating the fee? Interesting.
You think Klopp was on the phone to Barca negotiating the Coutinho sale?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I don't and neither did Klopp. But I am sure Liverpool did ask Klopp we've had a bid of £140m should we sell?
posted on 21/7/20
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 1 minute ago
Arteta has a say in the decision making process over who gets sold and who comes in, but the final decision does not lie with him. This has been the case since 2018 when we restructured. He is not a manager, he's a head coach. The difference might seem subtle, but he has less responsibility.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same as Liverpool and at most clubs these days.
posted on 21/7/20
No-one has done that J99, you're just making lazy arguments like you have been doing for most of the thread because you can't be bothered to fully engage in the counter arguments.
To be frank, I'm quite sick of you doing it.
I'm going to say this one more time - either engage properly and sincerely with me or don't bother at all.
posted on 21/7/20
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 20 seconds ago
No-one has done that J99, you're just making lazy arguments like you have been doing for most of the thread because you can't be bothered to fully engage in the counter arguments.
To be frank, I'm quite sick of you doing it.
I'm going to say this one more time - either engage properly and sincerely with me or don't bother at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am making arguments. They are only lazy for you because you don't have an anwser to them and are determined to give Arteta a pass whatever happens.
posted on 21/7/20
J99, I have given you answers throughout the entire thread and all you've done is impose your own view without analysing what other people are saying to you.
You're oversimplifying the arguments and aren't reading my posts properly at all. You're accusing me of things that I haven't done and then you're putting forward lazy arguments because you can't be bothered to read what I've wrote. You're responding to your own perception of what I've said, rather than what I've actually said.
If you're going to keep doing it, and you have been doing it for ages now, then I can't be bothered to continue debating with you on this topic.
You clearly have no intention of listening to opinions that don't align with your own.
What's the point?
posted on 21/7/20
'Here you were having a go at me for comparing a different era to present and you are doing the same.'
Context was different though, mate.
Look, we seem to be going round in circles a bit here, and I've kinda lost the urge to continue doing so.
Sorry if it seemed like I was just trying to trip you up. Point I was making was that having realistic expectations isn't necessarily the same as lowering them.
At least not in my book.
posted on 21/7/20
Samir,
You have given me answer to what? I am not convinced by anything you have said. You have been continually making excuses of why Arteta is going to fail.
How hard is it for you to believe I don't think he will. I believe he will get us to the CL. Thats his job and his target. If he does fail we'll see at that time why he failed and judge then. That could be down to the manager. But it might not be. You cannot have a more open mind than that!
I have objected to his style up till now only because I don't think it will get closer to that CL target that is crucial to our finances. But I have also said almost everytime I have critiqued his style up till now that it maybe understandable with the players he has and he may change next season. I hope he does.
posted on 21/7/20
Do you really think Arteta is going to fail?
posted on 21/7/20
comment by Lexington 125.2 (U8879)
posted 1 minute ago
'Here you were having a go at me for comparing a different era to present and you are doing the same.'
Context was different though, mate.
Look, we seem to be going round in circles a bit here, and I've kinda lost the urge to continue doing so.
Sorry if it seemed like I was just trying to trip you up. Point I was making was that having realistic expectations isn't necessarily the same as lowering them.
At least not in my book.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know why its so hard to accept that I think thats not the way to go. In my experience you get what strive for and realism is often just another word for pessimism or lack of belief.
posted on 21/7/20
So you don't lack belief but think Arteta is going to fail?
posted on 21/7/20
You have been continually making excuses of why Arteta is going to fail.
-------------
I have done no such thing. And I have not said he should get a free pass no matter what - there has to be progress and I gave you my criteria for what 'progress' constitutes.
The problem is you're not looking at the external factors or other actors that we are competing with who will have a huge say on Champions League based on their spending habits and the existing conditions of their squads.
Why you ignore these, when they are very prominent factors, I don't know.
We have 6 competitors for 4 places normally. We've now had Leicester and Wolves in the mix - the latter of whom have finished in a European spot for a 2nd consecutive season after being promoted.
It is not as easy to achieve as it was in Wenger's days - you only need to see how much Man Utd have spent and struggled to see that too.
I don't know how many times you want me to repeat that we should be looking to get in there as an objective - but if he doesn't get it, it doesn't instantaneously mean he's flopped.
posted on 21/7/20
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 59 seconds ago
Do you really think Arteta is going to fail?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The opposite I think he will succeed because I believe in him. But I don't think he can succeed with defence first, ala Moyes, in the premier. Against the top 4, I think its great to play like Atletico, but against everyone else we should be 'scoring first and often' with the attackers we have. Had we done that against Leicester instead of trying to shut it down, or Brighton or Spurs we could have been challenging for a CL position now. I don't rate Man Utd or Chelsea or Wolves that highly.
posted on 21/7/20
Do you see how you can't compare him to Moyes and say that his tactics are flawed and then say you believe in him?
posted on 21/7/20
Samir
Excuse:
The problem is you're not looking at the external factors or other actors that we are competing with who will have a huge say on Champions League based on their spending habits and the existing conditions of their squads.
Excuse:
We have 6 competitors for 4 places normally. We've now had Leicester and Wolves in the mix - the latter of whom have finished in a European spot for a 2nd consecutive season after being promoted.
Excuse:
It is not as easy to achieve as it was in Wenger's days - you only need to see how much Man Utd have spent and struggled to see that too.
-----------------------------------------------------------
You see thats what it looks like to me. Look at the teams directly ahead of us.
Wilder, Mourinho (just installed), Nuno, Rodgers, Ole, Lampard, Klopp.
I think Arteta is good if not better than all of them. Why can't Arteta do a Klopp? you have to believe that he can and hold him to it. If you start giving him excuses before he starts how are we judge if he is doing well or not? If he does fail we can assess the issues at that point.
posted on 21/7/20
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 2 minutes ago
Do you see how you can't compare him to Moyes and say that his tactics are flawed and then say you believe in him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because at the moment I cannot judge if thats by design or expediency. I think that will become a little more apparent next season.
posted on 21/7/20
Feels a lot like you're playing both sides so you'll never have to admit you were wrong 😉
posted on 21/7/20
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 2 minutes ago
Feels a lot like you're playing both sides so you'll never have to admit you were wrong 😉
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double talking?
posted on 21/7/20
Pete doing a no show on a day when Russia & Tory collision exposed
Not very Wide Putin of him 👎
posted on 21/7/20
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 44 seconds ago
Feels a lot like you're playing both sides so you'll never have to admit you were wrong 😉
----------------------------------------------------------------------
By saying its too early to judge a tactic I've noticed at HT in every game we have played so far after the restart? I don't think so. It can be down to a few factors. But its a regret. We really shouldn't be hoping to qualify for a Europa at this point. We should have hoping to qualify for the CL looking at the teams we have dropped points against and how we have dropped those points by hanging back!
posted on 21/7/20
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 2 minutes ago
Feels a lot like you're playing both sides so you'll never have to admit you were wrong 😉
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double talking?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a little nuanced. Double talking is putting down a team that you don't say is the team you want to be picked but then saying it won't be picked either.
posted on 21/7/20
What the hell is double talking?
posted on 21/7/20
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 2 minutes ago
Feels a lot like you're playing both sides so you'll never have to admit you were wrong 😉
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double talking?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a little nuanced. Double talking is putting down a team that you don't say is the team you want to be picked but then saying it won't be picked either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was clearly written that the team posted was if Arteta wanted to change everything. It was highlighting the options he has at his disposal. Then I clearly stated I think he will make 5 or 6 changes.
Page 21699 of 31849
21700 | 21701 | 21702 | 21703 | 21704