comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 4 minutes ago
The BBC are running the above. I didn't fit any current players into the team and most of my knowledge on the players before the 80s is based on a history of Liverpool book I had read a couple of times before being forced to write it out, front to back, for coming home stoned when I was 15. It went something like this - "your eyes look funny". "oh I'm just tired". "what did you do with the money I gave you?" "I bought Chinese food." "so you don't want your dinner?". "I do, I'm starving!". "aha, you've been on the wacky!"
__________________

Found it (no thanks to DJ)

TOORs article
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😑
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Sorry.

comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Lexington 125.2 (U8879)
posted 7 seconds ago
Erm we were only really 'in the mix' due to other clubs' deficiencies, rather than due to our strength. Once a few others got their shiiit together, the writing was on the wall for us. To the degree that, when Arteta finally took over, there were some legitimate concerns of a relegation battle this season.
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Only in arseblog.
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You know that isn't true though, so why bother?

comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 5 seconds ago
J99, we were very fortunate last season too though. Our xGA (expected goals against) was anticipated to be a lot higher and our conversion rate was unusually high - I read somewhere that it was the highest conversion rate since Opta records began recording or something like that. This was never going to be sustainable and that became clearer when the start of 2019/2020 season happened.

Finishing 5th and getting battered 4-1 in a EL final says to me we aren't a CL team because if we were, neither of those things would have happened. A team is more than just talent; mentality comes into it too. We crumbled under pressure. So we're not a CL calibre team.
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Then you absolve Emery of all responsibility?
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How the hell have you come to that conclusion? This is why I ask whether you even bother reading my posts or not.

I've already answered this for you above.

Either read my posts properly or don't bother replying.
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Either you give Emery credit for over performing as your point on xGA shows and getting to the final but being exposed by a better team,

or

Despite Emery problems with language or whatever, the team performed well and got to the final where Emery's tactics were exposed and we lost. That carried on this season until he was finally fired.

Which one do you want?

comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 5 seconds ago
J99, we were very fortunate last season too though. Our xGA (expected goals against) was anticipated to be a lot higher and our conversion rate was unusually high - I read somewhere that it was the highest conversion rate since Opta records began recording or something like that. This was never going to be sustainable and that became clearer when the start of 2019/2020 season happened.

Finishing 5th and getting battered 4-1 in a EL final says to me we aren't a CL team because if we were, neither of those things would have happened. A team is more than just talent; mentality comes into it too. We crumbled under pressure. So we're not a CL calibre team.
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Then you absolve Emery of all responsibility?
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How the hell have you come to that conclusion? This is why I ask whether you even bother reading my posts or not.

I've already answered this for you above.

Either read my posts properly or don't bother replying.
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It was pretty clear the point you were making, Samir. Not sure what's up with J99 today tbh.

J99, stop trying to devise scenarios where the answer in your head has to be one or the other.

These matters are far more complex than 'blame the players OR blame the manager - pick one'.

This is just so reductive and disingenuous.

comment by Lexington 125.2 (U8879)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Lexington 125.2 (U8879)
posted 7 seconds ago
Erm we were only really 'in the mix' due to other clubs' deficiencies, rather than due to our strength. Once a few others got their shiiit together, the writing was on the wall for us. To the degree that, when Arteta finally took over, there were some legitimate concerns of a relegation battle this season.
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Only in arseblog.
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You know that isn't true though, so why bother?
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"some legitimate concerns of a relegation battle this season"

That is straight out of social media that only exists finanially based on bombast and hyper exaggeration. Or why you click on their link.

'Their link' being the BBC Sports Premier League table?

comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 29 seconds ago
J99, stop trying to devise scenarios where the answer in your head has to be one or the other.

These matters are far more complex than 'blame the players OR blame the manager - pick one'.

This is just so reductive and disingenuous.
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But its fundamentally true. It really is that simple. You said above that you did not believe we were a bottom half of the team, unlike Lexington who thought we were in a relegation fight. So if we have been there are or there abouts just below those top 4 teams then shouldn't the manager be the difference maker here?

Being in a relegation scrap and being a bottom half team are the same thing then?

Ok.

comment by Lexington 125.2 (U8879)
posted 2 seconds ago
Being in a relegation scrap and being a bottom half team are the same thing then?

Ok.
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There are some bottom half teams who avoid relegation fights. But you suggested we were in a relegation battle.

Also arsenal getting results ahead of xGA isn't overperforming it's getting lucky

comment by Arsenal_49 (U10665)
posted 46 minutes ago
Why do people always think we are far behind Chelsea and Man U for? both are not all that. Just because they are 9-10 points ahead of us this season it doesn't mean they are miles ahead of us. We will be up there next season challenging both for a top 4 spot and we should be aiming to finish above both of them or at least one of them.
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That's the spirit Sir

comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 29 seconds ago
J99, stop trying to devise scenarios where the answer in your head has to be one or the other.

These matters are far more complex than 'blame the players OR blame the manager - pick one'.

This is just so reductive and disingenuous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

But its fundamentally true. It really is that simple. You said above that you did not believe we were a bottom half of the team, unlike Lexington who thought we were in a relegation fight. So if we have been there are or there abouts just below those top 4 teams then shouldn't the manager be the difference maker here?
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The manager had his faults and some of those faults cost us Champions League football. The players too also had faults and some of those faults came back to bite us on the behind to cost us Champions League football.

Although we were getting results at times under Emery, we were still conceding a lot and we still had too many shots against us for my liking .We struggled for creativity and Emery was lucky that we had a player like Aubameyang who is as clinical as he is - otherwise he would have been fecked.

Both parties deserve blame. If we're basing it on league position alone without contextualising, Emery achieved more than I expected - but, for the reasons I've mentioned, it was never going to be sustainable and we rode our luck more often than not.

I was willing to give him more time to see if he could right those wrongs. He couldn't do it. His man management was poor. His communication was poor. The players' reaction to him, and his disjointed English skills, were also poor because it signified a lack of respect for a figure of authority. But the English barrier was bigger blocker to progress than I anticipated.

So no, it's not fundamentally that simple.

CALM!

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 29 seconds ago
J99, stop trying to devise scenarios where the answer in your head has to be one or the other.

These matters are far more complex than 'blame the players OR blame the manager - pick one'.

This is just so reductive and disingenuous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

But its fundamentally true. It really is that simple. You said above that you did not believe we were a bottom half of the team, unlike Lexington who thought we were in a relegation fight. So if we have been there are or there abouts just below those top 4 teams then shouldn't the manager be the difference maker here?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The manager had his faults and some of those faults cost us Champions League football. The players too also had faults and some of those faults came back to bite us on the behind to cost us Champions League football.

Although we were getting results at times under Emery, we were still conceding a lot and we still had too many shots against us for my liking .We struggled for creativity and Emery was lucky that we had a player like Aubameyang who is as clinical as he is - otherwise he would have been fecked.

Both parties deserve blame. If we're basing it on league position alone without contextualising, Emery achieved more than I expected - but, for the reasons I've mentioned, it was never going to be sustainable and we rode our luck more often than not.

I was willing to give him more time to see if he could right those wrongs. He couldn't do it. His man management was poor. His communication was poor. The players' reaction to him, and his disjointed English skills, were also poor because it signified a lack of respect for a figure of authority. But the English barrier was bigger blocker to progress than I anticipated.

So no, it's not fundamentally that simple.
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Ok so I agree with that. And we replaced him with Arteta to perform better than Emery.

Now what should be Arteta's goal? How should we judge him more than some abstract opinions?

Now what should be Arteta's goal? How should we judge him more than some abstract opinions?
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The aim is to get us back into the Champions League and eventually get us back to being title contenders.

But change is incremental and scarcely happens overnight.

We need to be part of the conversation first.

A lot of it is also dependent on how much money we get to spend in the Summer.

If we invest a lot or recruit in the right areas, and the other clubs don't, but we still struggle to make the top-4, then yes, he needs to be under immense pressure.

But if, like I expect, he's not given a whole lot to work with and we have to watch City, United and Chelsea invest vast sums of capital into their teams, then expecting top-4 would be harsh.

comment by It's Time To G... (U3245)
posted 7 minutes ago
💁‍♂️
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Are you a Russian bot? 🤖

comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 22 seconds ago
Now what should be Arteta's goal? How should we judge him more than some abstract opinions?
=====

The aim is to get us back into the Champions League and eventually get us back to being title contenders.

But change is incremental and scarcely happens overnight.

We need to be part of the conversation first.

A lot of it is also dependent on how much money we get to spend in the Summer.

If we invest a lot or recruit in the right areas, and the other clubs don't, but we still struggle to make the top-4, then yes, he needs to be under immense pressure.

But if, like I expect, he's not given a whole lot to work with and we have to watch City, United and Chelsea invest vast sums of capital into their teams, then expecting top-4 would be harsh.
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You see you are lowering expectations. Thats not good. Whether its a class at school or a unit you are managing or a football club. The same applies. You have to set targets and goals and then assess why your charges couldn't achieve those. The lower you expect from those to perform the lower they will perform. When Emery was given the job he had 2 years to get us into the CL with an option of a third year. Why should it be any different for Arteta? He is being paid millions of pounds to do that role and thats what should be expected from him.

Now if you think he won't be able to do at the very start because he won't have money then why was Wenger able to do it on even less money between 1996-2012? (I don't actually believe he won't have the money as I have shown we have been the 3rd highest spenders in the last 5 years). Surely we should believe we have a special manager like Wenger was for many many years?

Heart and the glory and me
Chaos and the big sea

'You see you are lowering expectations.'

He's seriously not.


'When Emery was given the job he had 2 years to get us into the CL with an option of a third year. Why should it be any different for Arteta?'

[context missing]


'..then why was Wenger able to do it on even less money between 1996-2012?'

Where to even begin with this...

Obviously nowhere or you could have made a point.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

So you're saying you're not in the slightest bit aware of any changes that have happened within football finances between 1996 and now?

Ok.

Again.

Judge him in May.