Deliberately ignore the truth if you like but Arsenal have not been operating on a 'budget' compared to the teams they have finished ahead of.
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Your points about ambition, about Wenger not doing a good enough job, about the top 4 trophy, i get and to some degree agree. But ^ that statement is a load of . Sorry, but it just sounds like a whinings of an upset scousers that decided to have a right old whinge just because one football club got the better of his club.

Your statement is pure opinion. Not backed up by facts, figures or an iota of truth. If you want a reasonable and coherent discussion, please go ahead. But don't involve made up garbage which suits your purpose.

Arsenal NOT operating on a budget?? Ok mate.

There you go again

Who are these clubs that have been operating on a bigger budget than Arsenal since 2004? Name them, give us facts.

You've just said that statement is rubbish & 'garbage'

Well tell us, enlighten us poor unreasonable souls that aren't coherent ...who are these clubs?

To be fair I haven't seen a post directly answering TAS's comments, just posts saying he's wrong

I think i've made a clear enough statement regarding the your questions. I suggest you scroll back and actually read the contents of this article again, instead of repeating yourself.

Whose shouting Henry's cat?

Who isn't debating?

I've contended that Wenger has been doing the minimum over the last 9 years and there are no other clubs that should reasonably have been expected to finished ahead of Arsenal because they've been working with a much bigger budget!

No one has come back with fact. No absolute....this club has had a much bigger budget than us and should definitely have beaten us.

The clubs with a bigger budget have been finishing ahead of Arsenal. Wenger has outperformed nobody...

No one has come back with fact. No absolute....this club has had a much bigger budget than us and should definitely have beaten us.
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Another statement not back up by facts. This is getting boring, absolute

No WUM...this is for you to back up to disprove? It's a question I'm asking you guys

Who has been working with a bigger budget in the Premier League since 2004 and should definitely have been finishing above Arsenal thus stopping them getting in the top 4?

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/transfer-league-table-last-five-seasons.html

This is a table of spending over some vague 5 year period or other, it tells you what everyone (including probably you) already knows. Read it, draw some conclusions. Arsenal's spend is less than the obvious 'top 3', and Spurs and Liverpool. Arsenal are performing better than Spurs and Liverpool, "by the numbers". Doubtless this is because Liverpool have 'almost gone bust' recently, because your financial restraints count while Arsenal's don't, or something like that.

Arsenal's wage bill is generally around about the 4th biggest in the league these days, they finish about 4th these days. Shock. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that isn't true either these days.

I'm fairly sure, several Arsenal fans have said Wenger's achievements are disappointing and could clearly be better - so, not sure why you keep banging on about it to be fair. I think you want us to throw our arms in the air and say "it's all a tragic failure, we're all stupid", which is never going to happen for many reasons.

And how can you bkam

Ffs. Also how can you blame financial limitations when your board and manager have made it abundantly clear that for the last few years they've had money to spend ? It's been wengers decision not to spend it, therefore that's a poor excuse. It's also been his decision to sell key players to rivals and give youth a chance to an extent.

Let's look at it another way

Rafa Benitez has often been the subject of derision and fun poking by other clubs fans...true?

Rafa arrived at Anfield in the summer of 2004. Arsenal were champions and Liverpool were a team struggling to get into the CL and that 2003-4 season they finished 30 points behind Arsenal - this is fact

So you'd agree I'm sure that at that point Arsenal were a much stronger club with a base of been a Champion team.

Over the next 6 seasons Rafa's Liverpool finished ahead of Arsenal in 3 of the 6 seasons Rafa was at the club. Indeed in some of those seasons as many as 15 and also 14 points ahead of Arsenal.

Liverpool also won the CL, the FA Cup and reached another CL final, they challenged for the title right to the wire, indeed 86 points would of won the league in 8 of the previous seasons

Rafa gets ridiculed but Arsene apparently did an 'amazing' job in keeping the club in the top 4?

How does that work?

I'm not blaming anything, it's not my place to justify any of this to anyone.

For me Wenger's big mistake was showing too much faith in youth and giving them too long a contracts. When they didn't turn out to be the world beaters he hoped for we were stuck with an expensive, underachieving squad we couldn't afford to replace quickly. It was a gamble, but didn't work out. But, having made that decision and failed to achieve the 'best case', he still achieved the minimum that the board could stomach - so no great disaster, no massive loss, despite what you would have everyone believe.

Some great sage once said, "You won't win anything with kids", well turns out he was probably right. Ho-hum, ever onwards.

"Rafa gets ridiculed but Arsene apparently did an 'amazing' job in keeping the club in the top 4?

How does that work?"

Dunno, maybe the Liverpool fans had stupidly unrealistic expectations on the back of their glorious 70s history. Maybe the Liverpool board/fans listen to the newspapers too much - either way, turns out Arsenal made the better choice in keeping Wenger and Liverpool slipped further back getting rid of Rafa. Sorry, who are we having a go at again?

Thanks Henry's cat

Going back to our base line of 2004. Tottenham finished 45 points behind Champions Arsenal

Is it reasonable that Spurs should because they had some more money spent in players have achieved a more than 45 point turnaround and be therefore beating Arsenal to 4th spot?

This also needs to take into account the stability that Arsenal had since 1996 with Arsene and the time he'd had to develop enough young players through the system to offset any funding gap

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/170274-rafael-benitez-arsene-wenger-alex-ferguson-their-transfer-histories#articles/170274-rafael-benitez-arsene-wenger-alex-ferguson-their-transfer-histories

"The three managers records since 2004....

Alex Ferguson IN (19) £159.10m OUT (62) £128.50m
Rafael Benitez IN (49) £210.50m OUT (80) £125.28m
Arsene Wenger IN (34) £ 99.25m OUT (62) £108.20m"

That's up til 2009. 6 years. £210m spent, and one title challenge.

So I take it from the recent comments Henry's cat when faced with fact it is fair to say that Arsene has been treading water and not doing the amazing job he thinks he is

Therefore when he makes a comment about top 4 & CL football, looking smug, actually everyone should rightly cringe and say "hold on a minute"

I'm certainly not unreasonable and fully prepared to debate, I'm not upset (in fact I am slightly upset as I think the Arsenal fans have had the wool pulled over their eyes by Arsene and the board & some of my good friends are Gooners) or slandering anyone as some on here do. I've based my thoughts on the facts of the matter. Cheers

absolutetruth decides to go when i've 'finally' linked him with some real figures.

I see WUM, thanks for the simple notion of spending figures

Delightfully ignores the facts that from our base in 2004 Liverpool as a club were 30 points behind Arsenal.

Would the majority of Arsenal fans take that reality that you showed there. That you can spend £100 million net and win the CL?

When you consider the spend of Chelsea & City to try and win the CL against Liverpool coming from 30 points of the top of the league and winning it by spending only £100 million...wow, what a job that man did huh?

"Is it reasonable that Spurs should because they had some more money spent in players have achieved a more than 45 point turnaround and be therefore beating Arsenal to 4th spot?"

I assume this is saying Spurs should have done better? Well, not necessarily no, it depends on where they are starting from and what they got rid of - it's all very well you dismissing 'net spend', but it is important when comparing the performance on and off the pitch between different clubs.

One team may well have spent £100m on talent, but if they sold the best players for £200m, they're probably fooked - or at best 'treading water', as you put it. Surely none of this is surprising? If you can 'tread water' and make a profit in the transfer market, you're doing a pretty good job by anyone's measure. Trophies have to be considered a bonus when three others clubs písh 3 or 4 times your profit on their lunch.

Well you wanted facts and i've provided you with them. If you want to twist those facts to support your warped logic, knock yourself out fella.

WUM....for your logic to work Liverpool would of had to be at the same base line in 2004 as Arsenal.

Clearly they weren't - 30 points worse in actual fact. If my logic is 'warped' I don't know what to tell you, your never going to admit it. By your logic Spurs should have been beating Arsenal having been 45 points behind them in 2004

If Arsene breaks up a Championship team 2004 onwards and the club lets some players go messing about with contracts like offering Pires one year for example then clearly that's not very good management if your overall level drops.

The club still found the money to pay £12 million for 16 year olds.

And trophies are not a 'bonus'. I know there has been a lot of brain washing at the Emirates...but the truth is it is about winning trophies

Are you calling me "WUM", or Serial?

I never seen someone go to such lengths to wind-up another team's fans as you have in the last 24, or so, hours. And you call someone else WUM? It's fairly tragic if I'm honest.

base line?! I've included figures for the entirety of the 6 years there. What has any "baseline" got to do with it?!

Listen mate, i'm afraid you're not winding anyone up but yourself. Liverpool are out of the FA Cup. So what?! Shít happens. Deal with it.

Sorry, I forgot Serial's full name - a little embarressing if I'm honest. I stand by the rest of my post though.

I AM NOT A WUM