If none of them wanted to join, then fine, but we didn't go in for them did we.
====
Everything is just basic and simple for you Fred. Some things are a tad more complicated than you think perhaps.

We didn't go for them probably because our manager and transfer team don't see him as suitable for us. Ugarte was banded around since last year and we didn't go near him all that time. In the midst of it all, the only player we went for was Zubi. That says something.

You don't even work in football like our committee, and often offer the worst, least thought out opinions on football on here, so it's understandable if you that's how you see it.

And regarding the Rice comment. Arsenal are in trouble because they have lost Rice and Merino (and Odegaard), and they still have Partey.
=====
Party will do well to marshall their midfield on his own against City.

A one man midfield. Can't wait to see how it works.

comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted about a minute ago
And regarding the Rice comment. Arsenal are in trouble because they have lost Rice and Merino (and Odegaard), and they still have Partey.
=====
Party will do well to marshall their midfield on his own against City.

A one man midfield. Can't wait to see how it works.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing wrong with a 1 man midfield!

comment by Szoboss (U6997)
posted 46 minutes ago
comment by Michael Edwards FC 2.0 loading…{Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 28 minutes ago
Can we please not pretend that the club has this elaborate list of only elite level footballers that can improve our team...we are opportunistic. We thought we could sign him for less than his release clause and failed.

Profile or no profile the only reason we pursued him specifically & so aggressively was because of the opportunity to get him at lesser than his market rate
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't agree with any of that ME. Of course they do, every club will do. Klopp even said that he realised his heart wasn't 100% in the job when he met to discuss targets for the 2024 summer window.

Doesn't mean we wont be opportunistic where we can be but we'll have targets, both immediate and longer term.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbh I don't expect anyone to agree with that, but it's just the way things are unfolding and the way I see it.

Lets take the DM position for example. We know we identified Tchoumeni but we couldn't sign him because Real beat us to it. Right. Zero problems. You can't always land your targets and it's Real.

Then we identified Lavia who we knew from day 1 that we had to cough up £50m for. We negotiated, and negotiated and "walked away" until the very last minute and then when the opportunity arose that we might sneak Caicedo from under Chelsea's noses, we went in all guns blazing. £100m on the table with Klopp's, Ljinders and Schmadtke's shlong just laying there. We lost both targets to our opportunistic nature and not taking a £50m risk on Lavia

We then identified Zubimendi, probably got encouraged by his agent that we could land him. We knew the release clause but for some reason couldn't agree a fee with the club

Then within a few days, a player who the club made the world believe was the only player that could improve this Liverpool midfield, but we didn't think he was worth his release clause...this player decided you know what...maybe I'm better off where I am after some convincing from his current employer.

Opportunity lost because we didn't want to take the risk.

Any hypotheticals about would've, could've, should've doesn't matter...those are events as they unfolded and as they were reported.

We will sign the right player under the right circumstances...but circumstances trump the player. That's the way it is these days.

but we didn't think he was worth his release clause
-----
huh, everything points to that we would have, its just Sociedad wanted him to trigger it himself (pressure move as its essentially forcing yourself out as the club dont want him to ) rather than just accept a bid from us

out of the club, but they didnt want him to leave*

comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 8 seconds ago
but we didn't think he was worth his release clause
-----
huh, everything points to that we would have, its just Sociedad wanted him to trigger it himself (pressure move as its essentially forcing yourself out as the club dont want him to ) rather than just accept a bid from us
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why would we bid on a release clause?

All release clauses have to be paid in by the players in La LIga

I know.

You can still just agree a fee in that range.. they wanted him to trigger the clause himself rather than accept a bid though

Tbh I went through all that waffle just to say this

"circumstances trump the player"

Our fanbase needs to give up this idea we have an elite list. Day by day it's being proven to be absolute bollox

comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 36 minutes ago
And regarding the Rice comment. Arsenal are in trouble because they have lost Rice and Merino (and Odegaard), and they still have Partey.
=====
Party will do well to marshall their midfield on his own against City.

A one man midfield. Can't wait to see how it works.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jorginho too, who was superb against Spurs apparently.

comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 38 minutes ago
If none of them wanted to join, then fine, but we didn't go in for them did we.
====
Everything is just basic and simple for you Fred. Some things are a tad more complicated than you think perhaps.

We didn't go for them probably because our manager and transfer team don't see him as suitable for us. Ugarte was banded around since last year and we didn't go near him all that time. In the midst of it all, the only player we went for was Zubi. That says something.

You don't even work in football like our committee, and often offer the worst, least thought out opinions on football on here, so it's understandable if you that's how you see it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you always need to get personal? No need, whatsoever. It's just diiiickhead behaviour tbh.

It's not like I have a massively wild opinion thinking we could have signed a 6 in the window. It was pretty much the leading opinion of 90% of pundits as well, who are a lot closer to the game than any of us armchair pundits.

comment by Michael Edwards FC 2.0 loading…{Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 6 minutes ago
Tbh I went through all that waffle just to say this

"circumstances trump the player"

Our fanbase needs to give up this idea we have an elite list. Day by day it's being proven to be absolute bollox
----------------------------------------------------------------------

In my opinion you're looking at this is a very binary way.

Just because we have proven ourselves to be opportunistic doesn't mean there isn't a list of targets, both long and short term.

The circumstances of a player have always been hugely important. Not just the availability/willingness to sell, rivals for the signature or attachment to existing club but also character of the player and likely club fit. But the circumstance and player ability must be considered together; in my view it's absurd to suggest we buy players JUST because their circumstances make that possible. We simply wouldn't be successful as a football team if the recruitment is as random as you seem to be suggesting.

We have spend the last decade competing with one of the most lavishly funded and strategically aligned clubs there have ever been, managed by one of the great managers. We've not done that through haphazard opportunism. We've done it through careful, considered and strategic recruitment. DM has been a problem, no doubt about it. But don't let that taint the rather obvious truth about our recruitment.

Then we identified Lavia who we knew from day 1 that we had to cough up £50m for. We negotiated, and negotiated and "walked away" until the very last minute and then when the opportunity arose that we might sneak Caicedo from under Chelsea's noses, we went in all guns blazing. £100m on the table with Klopp's, Ljinders and Schmadtke's shlong just laying there. We lost both targets to our opportunistic nature and not taking a £50m risk on Lavia
=====
At what point in the storyline did we identify Lavia? When the rumours started or when the bid went in? Chelsea outbid us for Lavia and offered more money to the club and the players as well. Look how they're operating at Stamford Bridge? I don't blame the club for not really coming out on top there.

If there’s a list of targets, why is our squad not full? Like, where are they?

We then identified Zubimendi, probably got encouraged by his agent that we could land him. We knew the release clause but for some reason couldn't agree a fee with the club

Then within a few days, a player who the club made the world believe was the only player that could improve this Liverpool midfield, but we didn't think he was worth his release clause...this player decided you know what...maybe I'm better off where I am after some convincing from his current employer.
======
So we couldn't agree a fee with a club that was actively trying to convince their player to stay?

FSG out.

Any hypotheticals about would've, could've, should've doesn't matter...those are events as they unfolded and as they were reported.
=====
Not really saan. You can make any narrative you want based on reports. That's just the one you chose.

Also failed to mention we signed Grav, Endo, Szobo, AMA, Diaz, Gakpo during the same time period. Finished 3rd in the league, won a couple of trophies or so. Basically just picking the negatives is what you're doing. Things could always be better, but they're not as bad as made out.

All I'm gonna say is when we wanted a Van Dijk we went out and got ourselves a Van Dijk. When we wanted a Alisson, we got ourselves a Alisson.

Both players were identified as top targets by the club to push us to the next level.

If Zubimendi is supposedly the only deep-lying midfielder who would've improved us (I see it as the same situation as the two players above)...why are we negotiating a fee on a release clause?
Why did we allow doubt to creep into this player's head.

https://tinyurl.com/3xpypekx

comment by Fred: Sign Someone!!!! (U3979)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 38 minutes ago
If none of them wanted to join, then fine, but we didn't go in for them did we.
====
Everything is just basic and simple for you Fred. Some things are a tad more complicated than you think perhaps.

We didn't go for them probably because our manager and transfer team don't see him as suitable for us. Ugarte was banded around since last year and we didn't go near him all that time. In the midst of it all, the only player we went for was Zubi. That says something.

You don't even work in football like our committee, and often offer the worst, least thought out opinions on football on here, so it's understandable if you that's how you see it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you always need to get personal? No need, whatsoever. It's just diiiickhead behaviour tbh.

It's not like I have a massively wild opinion thinking we could have signed a 6 in the window. It was pretty much the leading opinion of 90% of pundits as well, who are a lot closer to the game than any of us armchair pundits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing personal there Fred. Man the fack up FFS.

I didn't say it was a wild opinion. Would have been nice to sign a 6 that the manager and club want and that also wants to be at the club. IMO, it wasn't to be. A new player like say, Ugarte, is as much a risk as deciding to try out Grav at 6. Signings have to improve the team, that's the aim.

Early doors, but does anyone think we'd be doing better with Ugarte instead of Grav at 6. Genuine question too as it's a matter of opinion with ni way to confirm what would have actually happened. At the moment I feel it was the right decision to go with Grav after Zubi said no.

Revisit the issue in January, which might be a bkessiyin disguise as Slot will have more data and info to work with after 6 months on the job. Hopefully it will lead to better decision making.

comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Fred: Sign Someone!!!! (U3979)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 38 minutes ago
If none of them wanted to join, then fine, but we didn't go in for them did we.
====
Everything is just basic and simple for you Fred. Some things are a tad more complicated than you think perhaps.

We didn't go for them probably because our manager and transfer team don't see him as suitable for us. Ugarte was banded around since last year and we didn't go near him all that time. In the midst of it all, the only player we went for was Zubi. That says something.

You don't even work in football like our committee, and often offer the worst, least thought out opinions on football on here, so it's understandable if you that's how you see it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you always need to get personal? No need, whatsoever. It's just diiiickhead behaviour tbh.

It's not like I have a massively wild opinion thinking we could have signed a 6 in the window. It was pretty much the leading opinion of 90% of pundits as well, who are a lot closer to the game than any of us armchair pundits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing personal there Fred. Man the fack up FFS.

I didn't say it was a wild opinion. Would have been nice to sign a 6 that the manager and club want and that also wants to be at the club. IMO, it wasn't to be. A new player like say, Ugarte, is as much a risk as deciding to try out Grav at 6. Signings have to improve the team, that's the aim.

Early doors, but does anyone think we'd be doing better with Ugarte instead of Grav at 6. Genuine question too as it's a matter of opinion with ni way to confirm what would have actually happened. At the moment I feel it was the right decision to go with Grav after Zubi said no.

Revisit the issue in January, which might be a bkessiyin disguise as Slot will have more data and info to work with after 6 months on the job. Hopefully it will lead to better decision making.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, let's not forget that when these conversations were going on in the summer, nobody expected Grav to excel the way he has in the role. That's been a huge asset to the team.

"Early doors, but does anyone think we'd be doing better with Ugarte instead of Grav at 6."

We've played four games. We will now be playing twice a week. We need options.

It’s the lack of pace in midfield that will hurt us. We can’t play this system without Szob atm really. If he’s out then you probably put AMA there, but who plays alongside Grav will also lack pace, and not just a bit. We’ll get smashed in transition I reckon, and it’s a glaring weakness in the skill set of our midfield as a whole. In fact I can’t really think of a slower midfield in the top half of the Prem. Utd maybe.

comment by Fred: Sign Someone!!!! (U3979)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Fred: Sign Someone!!!! (U3979)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 38 minutes ago
If none of them wanted to join, then fine, but we didn't go in for them did we.
====
Everything is just basic and simple for you Fred. Some things are a tad more complicated than you think perhaps.

We didn't go for them probably because our manager and transfer team don't see him as suitable for us. Ugarte was banded around since last year and we didn't go near him all that time. In the midst of it all, the only player we went for was Zubi. That says something.

You don't even work in football like our committee, and often offer the worst, least thought out opinions on football on here, so it's understandable if you that's how you see it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you always need to get personal? No need, whatsoever. It's just diiiickhead behaviour tbh.

It's not like I have a massively wild opinion thinking we could have signed a 6 in the window. It was pretty much the leading opinion of 90% of pundits as well, who are a lot closer to the game than any of us armchair pundits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing personal there Fred. Man the fack up FFS.

I didn't say it was a wild opinion. Would have been nice to sign a 6 that the manager and club want and that also wants to be at the club. IMO, it wasn't to be. A new player like say, Ugarte, is as much a risk as deciding to try out Grav at 6. Signings have to improve the team, that's the aim.

Early doors, but does anyone think we'd be doing better with Ugarte instead of Grav at 6. Genuine question too as it's a matter of opinion with ni way to confirm what would have actually happened. At the moment I feel it was the right decision to go with Grav after Zubi said no.

Revisit the issue in January, which might be a bkessiyin disguise as Slot will have more data and info to work with after 6 months on the job. Hopefully it will lead to better decision making.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, let's not forget that when these conversations were going on in the summer, nobody expected Grav to excel the way he has in the role. That's been a huge asset to the team.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shouldn't we learn a lesson from that?

I knew something like that could happen. Not exactly as it happened of course, I thought it'd AMA, but as I kept saying all summer, Slot and the club will have a plan, we have other players that can play the position and we should only sign the chosen ones now.

Also said Diaz was perfect, just need the new manager to add goals and assists to his game, and he has started this season well enough in that department.

Long story short, we'll see how it goes but so far I am pretty happy with how things are going. That could change soon because we can't afford two defeats in succession in the league. Pressure is on Slot this weekend.

comment by Michael Edwards FC 2.0 loading…{Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 12 minutes ago
All I'm gonna say is when we wanted a Van Dijk we went out and got ourselves a Van Dijk. When we wanted a Alisson, we got ourselves a Alisson.

Both players were identified as top targets by the club to push us to the next level.

If Zubimendi is supposedly the only deep-lying midfielder who would've improved us (I see it as the same situation as the two players above)...why are we negotiating a fee on a release clause?
Why did we allow doubt to creep into this player's head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

To point out the obvious, we didn’t just go and get VVD. We were caught tapping him up and Southampton refused to speak to us for 6 months!

This is guesswork obviously but I’d imagine we received some sort of encouragement that a lower offer would be considered. Or indeed a higher offer with structured payments. We just triggered Szobo’s release fee so I assume if it was felt that was the only route then we’d have done the same.

Either way, I’m not sure how this plays into your idea that we’re opportunistic and circumstance driven. If anything it’s an example of lack of opportunism, not being decisive enough. Albeit I personally believe the outcome would have been the same.

comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Fred: Sign Someone!!!! (U3979)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Fred: Sign Someone!!!! (U3979)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 38 minutes ago
If none of them wanted to join, then fine, but we didn't go in for them did we.
====
Everything is just basic and simple for you Fred. Some things are a tad more complicated than you think perhaps.

We didn't go for them probably because our manager and transfer team don't see him as suitable for us. Ugarte was banded around since last year and we didn't go near him all that time. In the midst of it all, the only player we went for was Zubi. That says something.

You don't even work in football like our committee, and often offer the worst, least thought out opinions on football on here, so it's understandable if you that's how you see it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you always need to get personal? No need, whatsoever. It's just diiiickhead behaviour tbh.

It's not like I have a massively wild opinion thinking we could have signed a 6 in the window. It was pretty much the leading opinion of 90% of pundits as well, who are a lot closer to the game than any of us armchair pundits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing personal there Fred. Man the fack up FFS.

I didn't say it was a wild opinion. Would have been nice to sign a 6 that the manager and club want and that also wants to be at the club. IMO, it wasn't to be. A new player like say, Ugarte, is as much a risk as deciding to try out Grav at 6. Signings have to improve the team, that's the aim.

Early doors, but does anyone think we'd be doing better with Ugarte instead of Grav at 6. Genuine question too as it's a matter of opinion with ni way to confirm what would have actually happened. At the moment I feel it was the right decision to go with Grav after Zubi said no.

Revisit the issue in January, which might be a bkessiyin disguise as Slot will have more data and info to work with after 6 months on the job. Hopefully it will lead to better decision making.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, let's not forget that when these conversations were going on in the summer, nobody expected Grav to excel the way he has in the role. That's been a huge asset to the team.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shouldn't we learn a lesson from that?

I knew something like that could happen. Not exactly as it happened of course, I thought it'd AMA, but as I kept saying all summer, Slot and the club will have a plan, we have other players that can play the position and we should only sign the chosen ones now.

Also said Diaz was perfect, just need the new manager to add goals and assists to his game, and he has started this season well enough in that department.

Long story short, we'll see how it goes but so far I am pretty happy with how things are going. That could change soon because we can't afford two defeats in succession in the league. Pressure is on Slot this weekend.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Forest blip aside, it has been a fantastic start to the season. But we haven't had to rotate our midfield once yet. Once we have a far more pressing run of games, then we will find out how suited this squad is.

Endo will do a job this season and I'm absolutely fine with that.

Leftfield option, is Lavia getting minutes? Can imagine Chelsea might be looking to loan-out if not sell some of their swollen squad, I wonder if Lavia might become an option