comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 48 seconds ago
You guys always make it seem like I do not want us to spend money. I do but I want it spent on the right player.

Even if we have money to spend, it does not mean we should throw it around willy nilly.

I am not opposed to signing Shaw, I am opposed to spending the kind of money being talked about.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
mudd,

would you spend 15 million on him if he would give you 7 years of service??

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 19 seconds ago
You guys always make it seem like I do not want us to spend money. I do but I want it spent on the right player.

Even if we have money to spend, it does not mean we should throw it around willy nilly.

I am not opposed to signing Shaw, I am opposed to spending the kind of money being talked about.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one is trying to justify the Shaw price.

Everyone (virtually) agrees it's overpriced. However, we must look at some facts.

- We're not in the CL
- We had a shíte season last year
- We're in massive transition
- We're unlikely to compete for the title.

It only stands to reason that we'll have to pay over the odds, regardless of who we go for, if we want quality players.

comment by dunc - slayer of the gullible (U11713)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 48 seconds ago
You guys always make it seem like I do not want us to spend money. I do but I want it spent on the right player.

Even if we have money to spend, it does not mean we should throw it around willy nilly.

I am not opposed to signing Shaw, I am opposed to spending the kind of money being talked about.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
mudd,

would you spend 15 million on him if he would give you 7 years of service??
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Depends of the level of service

well it would have to be decent enough service for him to remain our first choice LB.

To be fair, the argument that we could get 10 years service and sell at a decent price is a pretty strong one.

thats the point.

if we pay 30 million for shaw and get 15 years of service out of him then it would be fantastic business.

if we pay 30 million, have him for 7 years and then flog him for 15, same result.

What about if he cannot hack it and fails?

Yes, the quality is the unknown.

For me, I'd be negotiating hard to try and build in as much money based on future performance as I can.

the we'd recoup half of what we paid out on at least.

noone knows the ins and outs of the deal, and i find it very unlikely its a staight 30 million deal.

there will be add ons somewhere, and if he doesnt succeed, then those add ons wont be paid.

it will probably be 20 - 25 million with the rest add ons.
if he doesnt succeed at utd then we'd probably stand to lose 5-10 million.

for that money, its worth the risk.

What about if he cannot hack it and fails?
-------------------------------
You could use that excuse for any player though.

What if we pay £40m for Kroos and he fails to match his bundesliga form... Should we just not bother, just in case?

It seems like you almost have a fear of what people (opposition fans?) will think if he fails.

dunc - slayer of the gullible (U11713)

Not sure we'd get £15 if he completely flops, would we?

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 10 minutes ago
What about if he cannot hack it and fails?
--------------------------

There is that risk with any signing.

Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)

You're right, you can.

But those with a proven record are surely more likely to be up to it, than those without?

I don't have a fear of him failing.

I am saying that his value has to be directly linked to a variety of things, which include the likelihood for him to succeed.

Let's look at Soldado.

A big risk, for a different reason i.e. lack of PL experience.

I don't have the attitude that it's not my money, so who cares, and I never have done.

Elvis (U7425)

Yes, but the risk is reduced if the transfer fee is significantly less than £30 million.

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 22 seconds ago
dunc - slayer of the gullible (U11713)

Not sure we'd get £15 if he completely flops, would we?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i'd say so.

just because he might fail at Utd doesnt mean he would fail elsewhere.

someone like spurs would easily pay that for him if it turns out to be he isnt quite cut out to be competing at the very top, but is good enough for those pushing that position.

take Fellaini, even now someone would pay 10 - 15 million for him.

the thing to look at is Shaw is only 18 years old and already looking like he has the ability to be a top top player.

sometimes you have to pay that little bit extra to take the risk.

even if we have him for three years and he doesnt quite do it, the kid will still only be 21 years old.

btw - I don't for one seond want us to turn into the Real Madrid of England... Buying up any player for insane money off the back of a good season.

I do, however, want us to keep the tradition of buying the top talent from our own league, especially if they are English. I'm not hugely patriotic, I just think it helps bring success and keeps the club's roots in tact.

dunc - slayer of the gullible (U11713)

Maybe - I really don't know.

I think it really depends on the circumstance.

If he flopped, and then we started playing a different left back and Shaw didn't play much for a couple of years, I don't think we'd get £15 million.

I think it's a decent argument, but I don't think it's 100%.

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 29 seconds ago
Elvis (U7425)

Yes, but the risk is reduced if the transfer fee is significantly less than £30 million.
-------------------------------

What I am saying is that even if you sign a proven world class player, there is still a risk. Veron for example.

I do agree that Shaw is overpriced, but I think that he will work out. There is probably less of a risk of him working out than there was with Veron.

"I do, however, want us to keep the tradition of buying the top talent from our own league, especially if they are English. I'm not hugely patriotic, I just think it helps bring success and keeps the club's roots in tact."

Fair play - I agree with that.

Elvis (U7425)

Of course there's a risk with any player.

But the level of risk changes, and is dependent on a range of factors.

The more you pay for a relatively unproven player, the more riskier the deal.

The more you pay for a player who has only played abroad, the more riskier the deal.

My point wasn't to say this deal is a risk and other transfers aren't.

winston,

how long would he have to have played before you deemed him worthy enough for the fee??

if he had another 2 years experience for example and he was still playing well and at the level he has been, would you be less concerend about the fee?

dunc - slayer of the gullible (U11713)

I think for £30 million, I'd expect a player who has been consistently a top player at club and international level (and preferably European) - even if only for a few seasons.

For me, £30 million for a left back is buying almost the finished article.

As a Southampton fan I don't want to sell the lad, obviously. and to get that across to any interested party I would put a £45/50M price tag on him.

I know that's crazy money but I just don't want to sell...

comment by Supa_Saint (U9391)
posted 1 minute ago
As a Southampton fan I don't want to sell the lad, obviously. and to get that across to any interested party I would put a £45/50M price tag on him.

I know that's crazy money but I just don't want to sell...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I take it you watch him every week?

Worth all the hype?

yes, that is all.