the main issue is that we OVERACHEIVED last season.
-------
No. No it's not. Our problems this year have abolsutely nothing to do with what happened last year. Poor defense. No depth up front. Dreadful performances from summer transfers. Lack of leadership.
All of these are bigger issues than 'overachieving' last year.
Nonsense.
I firmly believe this season is transitional as Rodgers stated near the start of the season.
--------
At what point are we not transitional? We are 3 years I to this rebuilding exercise
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 29 seconds ago
the main issue is that we OVERACHEIVED last season.
-------
No. No it's not. Our problems this year have abolsutely nothing to do with what happened last year. Poor defense. No depth up front. Dreadful performances from summer transfers. Lack of leadership.
All of these are bigger issues than 'overachieving' last year.
Nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean considering where we were before last season, we did over achieve and now the expectations were too high esp losin luis and studge.
we have been let down by some signings takin time to acclimatise but they are mostly young and will be better next season
depth up front see above. anyone wud struggle losing 2 playyers that scored 50 goals
take these in to account and we shud have expected a poor season by comparison
losing suarez hurt a lot
losing studge as well killed us
it really is that simple
the end
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 57 seconds ago
I firmly believe this season is transitional as Rodgers stated near the start of the season.
--------
At what point are we not transitional? We are 3 years I to this rebuilding exercise
----------------------------------------------------------------------
anyone not expecting the loss of 2 ky forwards and demise of our captain after last season, to not affect our performanes is an idiot. add to that 9 new players to bed in and u can see we weren't gonna be as good this year
I mean considering where we were before last season, we did over achieve and now the expectations were too high esp losin luis and studge.
-----------
before last season we were what, 7th 8th? Spend a few hundred million, bring in about 20 players who've made minimal impact. Back I the europa! What's not to be disappointed about?
comment by kennys RESPECTED fluffy fringe- the fringe MUST be respected!! (U1822)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 57 seconds ago
I firmly believe this season is transitional as Rodgers stated near the start of the season.
--------
At what point are we not transitional? We are 3 years I to this rebuilding exercise
----------------------------------------------------------------------
anyone not expecting the loss of 2 ky forwards and demise of our captain after last season, to not affect our performanes is an idiot. add to that 9 new players to bed in and u can see we weren't gonna be as good this year
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course we wouldn't be as good as last year. That's understandable. Spending sll that money snd being markedly worse is not really understandable.
What hurt about today goes beyond the defeat. It's the limp performance with no leadership, no tempo, no dynamism. Today mirrored the entire season. A collection of players with no desire or drive to succeed
From your list:
1. Yes we did have to bulk up on the squad, I agree with that. But it doesn't excuse some of the poor and pointless transfers. Bulking up a squad shouldn't be adding lots of squad players, it should be adding a few quality players that could stake a spot for the starting XI, who might push the current starting XI to the bench. Use academy players for the rest.
BRs signings like Origi, Ilori, Alberto, Aspas have added nothing to our squad this season and cost between them over £20m
2. We do, but thats again due to buying younger and inexperienced players.
3. Lallana has been plagued by injury, Lovren has been poor full stop. Has Markovic added anything Ibe could't have? Again, poor choice in the transfer market.
4. BR didn't have to buy that many players, see my response to point 1.
5. Again, who's fault is that?
-
Aside from the transfer market, he's made so many mistakes this year
We were brilliant last year playing high intensity, attacking football. Instead, he reverted initially to the possession based style that he's used in the 1st half of the previous two seasons which has not been particularly successful (performance wise). Refusing to drop players playing poorly (Lovren, Gerrard). We were absolutely wánk for the first half of the season
Finally reverts to a new 3 at the back system, which starts off pretty well, even in that defeat vs. United we weren't bad and we played very well vs Arsenal. For a while it was fine, but there were warning signs from the Soton game onwards that it could be exploited, especially after the Swansea game. Yet he still didn't change it for the Utd and Arsenal games that effectively ended our league season.
We had some good performances in that unbeaten run, but also some very average ones as well. Our attack is pretty poor, our defence playing a back 4 is pretty poor.
You suggest we need at least five players in the summer, and get rid of loads of deadwood. That's a big overhaul, and sadly I don't trust BR with doing it.
comment by kennys RESPECTED fluffy fringe- the fringe MUS... (U1822)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 29 seconds ago
the main issue is that we OVERACHEIVED last season.
-------
No. No it's not. Our problems this year have abolsutely nothing to do with what happened last year. Poor defense. No depth up front. Dreadful performances from summer transfers. Lack of leadership.
All of these are bigger issues than 'overachieving' last year.
Nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean considering where we were before last season, we did over achieve and now the expectations were too high esp losin luis and studge.
we have been let down by some signings takin time to acclimatise but they are mostly young and will be better next season
depth up front see above. anyone wud struggle losing 2 playyers that scored 50 goals
take these in to account and we shud have expected a poor season by comparison
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With Suarez going, nobody expected another title challenge. Most expected top 4, which isn't unreasonable given the money we spent. Sturridge missed around 10-15 league games last year, we all knew he was injury prone.
Yet we instead bought Balotelli (rubbish as a lone striker), Origi (not even playing for us this season), and Lambert as a replacement. That's poor planning and poor management
We are the fifth richest club and fifth highest wage paying club in the league, and where are we placed?
Losing Luis Suarez...who at the moment is Barcelona's talisman was bound to have an effect, especially after a season where we massively overachieved.
Blaming Rodgers transfers on him is idiotic, when you obviously know we have a transfer committee. Lets not forget that four clubs in the league can offer more money, wages and have the consident champions league spots to offer.
Sacking Rodgers would be clearly knee jerk, especially considering the foundations he has built that could blossom in 2-3 years!
3 at the back started having problems after we lost Lucas, he was key to its success. then we lost Gerrard to injury and the problems got worse.
I don't think it had anything to do with it being figured out, we just lost players key to making it work
v Arsenal we lost Skrtel as well who was key to the back 3
i see it as a fit players problem rather than a tactical one
"We are the fifth richest club and fifth highest wage paying club in the league, and where are we placed?"
I'm going to take a wild guess and go for 5th.
what do I win
why even mention Origi?
that's an investment for next year and we didn't lose out on any players due to funds. It's completely irrelevant
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by EL-TORO (U13505)
posted 14 seconds ago
We are the fifth richest club and fifth highest wage paying club in the league, and where are we placed?
Losing Luis Suarez...who at the moment is Barcelona's talisman was bound to have an effect, especially after a season where we massively overachieved.
Blaming Rodgers transfers on him is idiotic, when you obviously know we have a transfer committee. Lets not forget that four clubs in the league can offer more money, wages and have the consident champions league spots to offer.
Sacking Rodgers would be clearly knee jerk, especially considering the foundations he has built that could blossom in 2-3 years!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is wHat I'm saying
comment by The Kaiser's Trainers (U5676)
posted 2 minutes ago
3 at the back started having problems after we lost Lucas, he was key to its success. then we lost Gerrard to injury and the problems got worse.
I don't think it had anything to do with it being figured out, we just lost players key to making it work
v Arsenal we lost Skrtel as well who was key to the back 3
i see it as a fit players problem rather than a tactical one
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Going to disagree on this.
Swansea showed how it was done - when one of the wider 3 had the ball, they marked the CM (especialy Allen who's not strong enough to deal with man marking) and WB on that side.
Meant we either had to go long/risky pass, aimlessly pass it between the CBs, or force the WBs deep to pick up the ball which blunts the attacking threat.
Blaming Rodgers transfers on him is idiotic, when you obviously know we have a transfer committee.
---------
A transfer committee that Rodgers himself says he has the first and final say on.
don't blame the transfer committee
the real problem is we aren't a successful/big enough club to attract or keep top talent
if you don't want to admit that, then that's your problem. but it's not a 'flaw' with rodgers, it's just a painful reality
Don't disagree with that, I'm not expecting the likes of Pogba, Cavani etc, but we still can plan purchases a lot better.
I think my message is getting a little lost
I agree that Rodgers is not blameless. Some signings are poo. But some of them were shorterm to fill holes(Allen, borini) and need to be moved on when better arrives. Others were desperation ( Balo) as we didn't get first choice and the committee didn't give him his choice. Others like aspas and Alberto just were young and can only be assumed weren't what he expected wen he got them training.
Bren has done great things with the removal of deadwood and the instillation of an ethos and style to our play( on the whole). I believe he is working to a long term plan of where the squad is gonna be but it'll take time and have some ups and downs.
I am disappointed with some performances and Brens stubbornness at times to stick relentlessly to a formation/tactic rhat is working or suit the players available is infuriating. But he is young and will learn.
As for Europe, I think if we had gone in to cl group with the same team as last season and firing on all cylinders, we'd have scared the heck out of the group and run real pretty close, but alas. He will learn. I'd like top four and cl next season obviously but I'd take Europa to get this young squad, manager and his summer additions some valuable European experience and maybe with a more settled squad and a whole preseason for some like studge and Lallana we cud make some European progress as well as qualifying for the cl after next season
We can't blame the 'committee' for every poor transfer and exonerate Rodgers of blame. Rodgers says he has first and last call on all transfers. So he is responsible for our probable 90% failure rate on transfers.
Young, yes he is. Learning, I'm not sure. He repeats his mistakes too often for me.
We had one half of a season where we played the best football I've ever seen us play. But considering I don't know how we're going setup to play in the next match, it's hard to agree that we have a defined ethos.
Brendan wont bring us sustained success and cant attract world class players ....
Some liverpool fans cant grasp this ...that buck may not the man
We were outfoxed yet again by a team skirting relegation in a cup semi...
and im bitterly annoyed at the players and rodgers
"Brendan wont bring us sustained success and cant attract world class players ...."
can any manager do that?
I don't think so
Sign in if you want to comment
a dose of realism
Page 1 of 7
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posted on 19/4/15
word
posted on 19/4/15
the main issue is that we OVERACHEIVED last season.
-------
No. No it's not. Our problems this year have abolsutely nothing to do with what happened last year. Poor defense. No depth up front. Dreadful performances from summer transfers. Lack of leadership.
All of these are bigger issues than 'overachieving' last year.
Nonsense.
posted on 19/4/15
I firmly believe this season is transitional as Rodgers stated near the start of the season.
--------
At what point are we not transitional? We are 3 years I to this rebuilding exercise
posted on 19/4/15
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 29 seconds ago
the main issue is that we OVERACHEIVED last season.
-------
No. No it's not. Our problems this year have abolsutely nothing to do with what happened last year. Poor defense. No depth up front. Dreadful performances from summer transfers. Lack of leadership.
All of these are bigger issues than 'overachieving' last year.
Nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean considering where we were before last season, we did over achieve and now the expectations were too high esp losin luis and studge.
we have been let down by some signings takin time to acclimatise but they are mostly young and will be better next season
depth up front see above. anyone wud struggle losing 2 playyers that scored 50 goals
take these in to account and we shud have expected a poor season by comparison
posted on 19/4/15
losing suarez hurt a lot
losing studge as well killed us
it really is that simple
the end
posted on 19/4/15
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 57 seconds ago
I firmly believe this season is transitional as Rodgers stated near the start of the season.
--------
At what point are we not transitional? We are 3 years I to this rebuilding exercise
----------------------------------------------------------------------
anyone not expecting the loss of 2 ky forwards and demise of our captain after last season, to not affect our performanes is an idiot. add to that 9 new players to bed in and u can see we weren't gonna be as good this year
posted on 20/4/15
I mean considering where we were before last season, we did over achieve and now the expectations were too high esp losin luis and studge.
-----------
before last season we were what, 7th 8th? Spend a few hundred million, bring in about 20 players who've made minimal impact. Back I the europa! What's not to be disappointed about?
posted on 20/4/15
comment by kennys RESPECTED fluffy fringe- the fringe MUST be respected!! (U1822)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 57 seconds ago
I firmly believe this season is transitional as Rodgers stated near the start of the season.
--------
At what point are we not transitional? We are 3 years I to this rebuilding exercise
----------------------------------------------------------------------
anyone not expecting the loss of 2 ky forwards and demise of our captain after last season, to not affect our performanes is an idiot. add to that 9 new players to bed in and u can see we weren't gonna be as good this year
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course we wouldn't be as good as last year. That's understandable. Spending sll that money snd being markedly worse is not really understandable.
What hurt about today goes beyond the defeat. It's the limp performance with no leadership, no tempo, no dynamism. Today mirrored the entire season. A collection of players with no desire or drive to succeed
posted on 20/4/15
From your list:
1. Yes we did have to bulk up on the squad, I agree with that. But it doesn't excuse some of the poor and pointless transfers. Bulking up a squad shouldn't be adding lots of squad players, it should be adding a few quality players that could stake a spot for the starting XI, who might push the current starting XI to the bench. Use academy players for the rest.
BRs signings like Origi, Ilori, Alberto, Aspas have added nothing to our squad this season and cost between them over £20m
2. We do, but thats again due to buying younger and inexperienced players.
3. Lallana has been plagued by injury, Lovren has been poor full stop. Has Markovic added anything Ibe could't have? Again, poor choice in the transfer market.
4. BR didn't have to buy that many players, see my response to point 1.
5. Again, who's fault is that?
-
Aside from the transfer market, he's made so many mistakes this year
We were brilliant last year playing high intensity, attacking football. Instead, he reverted initially to the possession based style that he's used in the 1st half of the previous two seasons which has not been particularly successful (performance wise). Refusing to drop players playing poorly (Lovren, Gerrard). We were absolutely wánk for the first half of the season
Finally reverts to a new 3 at the back system, which starts off pretty well, even in that defeat vs. United we weren't bad and we played very well vs Arsenal. For a while it was fine, but there were warning signs from the Soton game onwards that it could be exploited, especially after the Swansea game. Yet he still didn't change it for the Utd and Arsenal games that effectively ended our league season.
We had some good performances in that unbeaten run, but also some very average ones as well. Our attack is pretty poor, our defence playing a back 4 is pretty poor.
You suggest we need at least five players in the summer, and get rid of loads of deadwood. That's a big overhaul, and sadly I don't trust BR with doing it.
posted on 20/4/15
comment by kennys RESPECTED fluffy fringe- the fringe MUS... (U1822)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 29 seconds ago
the main issue is that we OVERACHEIVED last season.
-------
No. No it's not. Our problems this year have abolsutely nothing to do with what happened last year. Poor defense. No depth up front. Dreadful performances from summer transfers. Lack of leadership.
All of these are bigger issues than 'overachieving' last year.
Nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean considering where we were before last season, we did over achieve and now the expectations were too high esp losin luis and studge.
we have been let down by some signings takin time to acclimatise but they are mostly young and will be better next season
depth up front see above. anyone wud struggle losing 2 playyers that scored 50 goals
take these in to account and we shud have expected a poor season by comparison
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With Suarez going, nobody expected another title challenge. Most expected top 4, which isn't unreasonable given the money we spent. Sturridge missed around 10-15 league games last year, we all knew he was injury prone.
Yet we instead bought Balotelli (rubbish as a lone striker), Origi (not even playing for us this season), and Lambert as a replacement. That's poor planning and poor management
posted on 20/4/15
We are the fifth richest club and fifth highest wage paying club in the league, and where are we placed?
Losing Luis Suarez...who at the moment is Barcelona's talisman was bound to have an effect, especially after a season where we massively overachieved.
Blaming Rodgers transfers on him is idiotic, when you obviously know we have a transfer committee. Lets not forget that four clubs in the league can offer more money, wages and have the consident champions league spots to offer.
Sacking Rodgers would be clearly knee jerk, especially considering the foundations he has built that could blossom in 2-3 years!
posted on 20/4/15
3 at the back started having problems after we lost Lucas, he was key to its success. then we lost Gerrard to injury and the problems got worse.
I don't think it had anything to do with it being figured out, we just lost players key to making it work
v Arsenal we lost Skrtel as well who was key to the back 3
i see it as a fit players problem rather than a tactical one
posted on 20/4/15
"We are the fifth richest club and fifth highest wage paying club in the league, and where are we placed?"
I'm going to take a wild guess and go for 5th.
what do I win
posted on 20/4/15
why even mention Origi?
that's an investment for next year and we didn't lose out on any players due to funds. It's completely irrelevant
posted on 20/4/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 20/4/15
comment by EL-TORO (U13505)
posted 14 seconds ago
We are the fifth richest club and fifth highest wage paying club in the league, and where are we placed?
Losing Luis Suarez...who at the moment is Barcelona's talisman was bound to have an effect, especially after a season where we massively overachieved.
Blaming Rodgers transfers on him is idiotic, when you obviously know we have a transfer committee. Lets not forget that four clubs in the league can offer more money, wages and have the consident champions league spots to offer.
Sacking Rodgers would be clearly knee jerk, especially considering the foundations he has built that could blossom in 2-3 years!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is wHat I'm saying
posted on 20/4/15
comment by The Kaiser's Trainers (U5676)
posted 2 minutes ago
3 at the back started having problems after we lost Lucas, he was key to its success. then we lost Gerrard to injury and the problems got worse.
I don't think it had anything to do with it being figured out, we just lost players key to making it work
v Arsenal we lost Skrtel as well who was key to the back 3
i see it as a fit players problem rather than a tactical one
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Going to disagree on this.
Swansea showed how it was done - when one of the wider 3 had the ball, they marked the CM (especialy Allen who's not strong enough to deal with man marking) and WB on that side.
Meant we either had to go long/risky pass, aimlessly pass it between the CBs, or force the WBs deep to pick up the ball which blunts the attacking threat.
posted on 20/4/15
Blaming Rodgers transfers on him is idiotic, when you obviously know we have a transfer committee.
---------
A transfer committee that Rodgers himself says he has the first and final say on.
posted on 20/4/15
don't blame the transfer committee
the real problem is we aren't a successful/big enough club to attract or keep top talent
if you don't want to admit that, then that's your problem. but it's not a 'flaw' with rodgers, it's just a painful reality
posted on 20/4/15
Don't disagree with that, I'm not expecting the likes of Pogba, Cavani etc, but we still can plan purchases a lot better.
posted on 20/4/15
I think my message is getting a little lost
I agree that Rodgers is not blameless. Some signings are poo. But some of them were shorterm to fill holes(Allen, borini) and need to be moved on when better arrives. Others were desperation ( Balo) as we didn't get first choice and the committee didn't give him his choice. Others like aspas and Alberto just were young and can only be assumed weren't what he expected wen he got them training.
Bren has done great things with the removal of deadwood and the instillation of an ethos and style to our play( on the whole). I believe he is working to a long term plan of where the squad is gonna be but it'll take time and have some ups and downs.
I am disappointed with some performances and Brens stubbornness at times to stick relentlessly to a formation/tactic rhat is working or suit the players available is infuriating. But he is young and will learn.
As for Europe, I think if we had gone in to cl group with the same team as last season and firing on all cylinders, we'd have scared the heck out of the group and run real pretty close, but alas. He will learn. I'd like top four and cl next season obviously but I'd take Europa to get this young squad, manager and his summer additions some valuable European experience and maybe with a more settled squad and a whole preseason for some like studge and Lallana we cud make some European progress as well as qualifying for the cl after next season
posted on 20/4/15
We can't blame the 'committee' for every poor transfer and exonerate Rodgers of blame. Rodgers says he has first and last call on all transfers. So he is responsible for our probable 90% failure rate on transfers.
posted on 20/4/15
Young, yes he is. Learning, I'm not sure. He repeats his mistakes too often for me.
We had one half of a season where we played the best football I've ever seen us play. But considering I don't know how we're going setup to play in the next match, it's hard to agree that we have a defined ethos.
posted on 20/4/15
Brendan wont bring us sustained success and cant attract world class players ....
Some liverpool fans cant grasp this ...that buck may not the man
We were outfoxed yet again by a team skirting relegation in a cup semi...
and im bitterly annoyed at the players and rodgers
posted on 20/4/15
"Brendan wont bring us sustained success and cant attract world class players ...."
can any manager do that?
I don't think so
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