comment by TCW (U6489)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TCW (U6489)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 1 hour, 43 minutes ago
comment by Murder on Zidanes floor, Butt you better not Gil Giroud, Pique, gonna burn this Bogdán Prowse Wright Brown (U7958)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 35 seconds ago
Does our culture suggest that?
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Well in the secularist society you are advocating, people would be forced to respect British and Christian culture which doesn't include anything multi-cultural
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Britain says it is a country that is tolerant to all views

Qatar does not make the same claim.
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I will not tolerate intolerance.
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So do not go?
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Fantastic. Everyone who feels the same can stay behind.

Then maybe while it's happening we could build a big biodome over Qatar, and then start a beautiful new world on the outside.
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There will be a beautiful Qatar world cup. Funny that half of the population are foreign and most are westerners.

I will be there and will take my family. Something I would not do in Russia.

I don't see how someone could go after racism and defend other forms of genetic intolerance

comment by TCW (U6489)
posted 22 seconds ago
I don't see how someone could go after racism and defend other forms of genetic intolerance
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My attending the world cup in Qatar is not an endorsement of their views on gay people.

Have you been to Italy? or the Vatican?

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by TCW (U6489)
posted 22 seconds ago
I don't see how someone could go after racism and defend other forms of genetic intolerance
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My attending the world cup in Qatar is not an endorsement of their views on gay people.

Have you been to Italy? or the Vatican?
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General statement.

Though it isn't just an attitude towards g'ays. There's also the migrant worker sheet. And yes, you can blame the companies, and they may well be most culpable. But the government have the power to stamp their authority down much more strongly.

But that wouldn't be financially viable perhaps.

BREAKING: Raheem Sterling has told Liverpool that he wants to leave the club. [Sky Sports News]

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb Lannister - Summer is coming (U20351)
posted 16 minutes ago
Mudd, you're doing your usual strawman argument designed to muddy a very clear debate.

Thousands of people will die building this world cup. It doesn't matter what nationality the companies are that are doing it. It's happening on Qatari soil and the people in charge of Qatar are letting it happen when they can very easily not let it happen.

You're basically saying that you're prepared to let these innocent people die just because you disagree with the governments of the US and the UK going to war illegally.


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Robb we talked about this. When we got to Qatar we realised their oil and gas industry was not set up to international standards and accidents happened.

We worked with the Qataris to sort out their regulation and legislation and today their standards are at par with ours and their disposal of produced water for instance is better than the EU standard.

This demonstrates clearly they are willing to work to change things. The construction companies alas do not give 2 shts about the workforce and have not bothered to work with the regulators. This in my humble opinion is wilful negligence on their part as they will not do this anywhere else in the West. Some may even go so far as to label it a form of racism.

I cannot understand how people are not enraged with these contractors who have a duty of care to their workers but be upset with the Qataris who are not the ones building the stadia.

It is selective outrage fueled by bias and I find it completely dishonest
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Do the Qataris not contract out the construction of stadiums and set their own human rights, employment and health and safety laws? Or should western companies do that all for them and Qatar shoulder none of the responsibility?
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Well, we did it for them in the oil and gas industry because their standards were not up to scratch. Why have the construction companies refused to?

Qatar does not know better, the companies do. So why are they not helping them out? Do you not see how bad this is? They know they are better standards but choose not to apply them, safe in the knowledge people like you would not be bothered
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People like me are bothered. Hence why I don't want the World Cup held in a country that 'does not know better.' I do not know all the ins and outs of which company is responsible for construction or who is hiring the labour, all I know is that people are dying because of this World Cup being hosted in a country with unethical human rights, employment and health and safety laws.

You keep questioning the moral compass of people you don't know though.
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I do because their outrage is selectively applied. The best way to get a country to move forward is not to distance yourself from it but to educate it.

Rome was not built in a day. This is why I am quite pleased they have the world cup. It will do the country and the region a world of good
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So your happy to see thousands die for the what you see as the good of a region (even though you are not asking the region to change, you are telling the western world to impose their own standards whilst they are there), yet question others moral compasses.

comment by TCW (U6489)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by TCW (U6489)
posted 22 seconds ago
I don't see how someone could go after racism and defend other forms of genetic intolerance
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My attending the world cup in Qatar is not an endorsement of their views on gay people.

Have you been to Italy? or the Vatican?
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General statement.
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Simple question really. My wife is black and my kids are mixed. Taking them to a country where they could be racially abused is not a good idea, don't you think?

I ask again, how does the Qatari govt catch gay people. Do they check who you are sleeping with?

I was on the tube last week in liberal London and there were 2 gay men cuddling, they got dirty looks and were eventually told to tone it down as there were kids on the train.

So your happy to see thousands die for the what you see as the good of a region (even though you are not asking the region to change, you are telling the western world to impose their own standards whilst they are there), yet question others moral compasses.
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No I am not, why am I upset with the construction companies? I have explained they are willing to change and given examples and have suggested we pressure our contractors to help them change.

Like I said previously, please read my posts properly. You seem to be attributing things to me I have not said

Also there's the always fun 'being a woman in the middle east' thing.

Ultimately I think cultural respect is a two way street. Both sides should be able to make some sort of concession. I don't think anyone is asking to bang their boyfriend during the Qatari national anthem in the middle of the stadium. But maybe we could try to produce the world cup in a more idealistic manner. All people coming together peacefully and as few dying in preparation as possible.

I don't think Qatar is the easiest or best choice for that vision. Not yet, anyway. Just a few years or possibly a couple of decades early.

Someone else said on this thread that they thought that other countries in the region might be more suitable. I don't know enough about the region to say anything on that though.

comment by TCW (U6489)
posted 4 minutes ago
Though it isn't just an attitude towards g'ays. There's also the migrant worker sheet. And yes, you can blame the companies, and they may well be most culpable. But the government have the power to stamp their authority down much more strongly.

But that wouldn't be financially viable perhaps.
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I agree but there are 2 sides to it

1) They do not know better
2) Some do but are making money of it

It is up to a company to say, sorry we will not work like this. Them ditching their principles for cash. That is disgusting

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by TCW (U6489)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by TCW (U6489)
posted 22 seconds ago
I don't see how someone could go after racism and defend other forms of genetic intolerance
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My attending the world cup in Qatar is not an endorsement of their views on gay people.

Have you been to Italy? or the Vatican?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
General statement.
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Simple question really. My wife is black and my kids are mixed. Taking them to a country where they could be racially abused is not a good idea, don't you think?

I ask again, how does the Qatari govt catch gay people. Do they check who you are sleeping with?

I was on the tube last week in liberal London and there were 2 gay men cuddling, they got dirty looks and were eventually told to tone it down as there were kids on the train.
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So you're fine with the state of racism in Italy. You think, oh my family is black so we just won't go and that's peachy.

How do they enforce being gay? Booking the same hotel room together maybe. That's pretty inconvenient. But i'm sure that you can be gay, just don't ask don't tell policy.

Do you like that policy for the American military? I think it's over now though.

In London, if police were on that train, the aggrieved party would be the gay couple. In Qatar, the people heckling them.§

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by TCW (U6489)
posted 1 minute ago
Also there's the always fun 'being a woman in the middle east' thing.

Ultimately I think cultural respect is a two way street. Both sides should be able to make some sort of concession. I don't think anyone is asking to bang their boyfriend during the Qatari national anthem in the middle of the stadium. But maybe we could try to produce the world cup in a more idealistic manner. All people coming together peacefully and as few dying in preparation as possible.

I don't think Qatar is the easiest or best choice for that vision. Not yet, anyway. Just a few years or possibly a couple of decades early.

Someone else said on this thread that they thought that other countries in the region might be more suitable. I don't know enough about the region to say anything on that though.

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The way I hope things pan out is that we are able to positively touch the lives of young people and they grow up with different views. Happens a lot already.

They are not as hard line with their religion as the Saudis. Even i nBahrain, yo ucan get your fix and there are "women" and "men" around if you want to have fun.

Progress can be made in the region. The UAE would have been a better host.

The Saudis did host youth tournaments some time ago. Would not recommend attending though. They were upset with Mrs Obama for not covering her head

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

What now for Splatter? Will this have any realistic impact on his chances of standing?

comment by Wearethefamous THFC .. (U19211)
posted 2 minutes ago
Do you know how many people died building the Suez canal .. about 22000 people


Building things is dangerous
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So why are people upset with people dying in Qatar then?

Actually that's something I should thank this site for because there hasn't been nearly enough moderate journalism around the issue and reading the other side has made me much less rabid about it all.

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comment by Wearethefamous THFC .. (U19211)
posted 24 seconds ago
Dropping bombs on isis is no bad thing, need a lot more of it to wipe the caaaants out
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You seem to be mixing up your brown people again

mudd - i echo all your views by the way. not so much a fan of your footy posts though.

You know what is kind of weirdly funny?

no where in the world will you see men holding hands and hugging and spending time together than in ME countries. Not because they are homosexual but because culturally don't see it as an issue.

As a Brit with foreign background I went to my country of origin and was uncomfortable with how my relatives would simply hold my hand in public. Got used to it but it was well weird initially.

Also what gets me is that men kissing and cuddling in public being frowned upon isn't homophobic as its frowned upon for men and women to do so too.

Equality isn't the right to do something. Its equally not allowing it too