isis slaughter kurd and turk students today,in Turkey,as islamists run amok in Africa,so the caliphate is expanding daily,and surely,it can't be all our fault?

If it is,do we just give up,sit back and watch parts of the world go nasty,as some leaders made a bad call,in the past?

I am not a bomb em all advocate,and learn from history..........ignoring or appeasing Hitler and the natzi's went well,eh.

The West are in a no win situation, when we failed to intervene to stop Saddam gassing his own population we're heartless and only interested in guarding our own interest and oil supplies.When we intervene in Afghanistan to stop the Taliban overunning the country we're massacaring innocent Muslims.

I for one would be very happy to see no more western service personnel lost fighting in Muslim countries, perhaps when Boko Haram and Isis have finished slaughtering their own peace will return to some of these Muslim countries ....... but I'll not hold my breath.

Cameron was right today on one point at least, the lack of integration by Muslim people in particular is a big problem in this country and many other Western countries. On my travels I have also seen a similar lack of integration by Muslim people in Kenya, where they seem to treat black Africans as second class citizens.

Some will undoubtedly regard my views as racist but they're not, I have witnessed this with my own eyes and it concerns me that it isn't more of an issue for the politicians of all persuasions.

comment by thebluebellsareblue (U9292)
posted 37 minutes ago
Mudd

Sad to see two Spanish bikers die in the USA.

Good to see Rossi doing well at the MotoGP though.

Are you a biker/petrolhead?

I was a biker,and last Monday spun my BMW M3 car on the motorway into Belfast,and smashed the rear end badly.
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Yeah,tragic. I like motogp and f1. Used to own bikes and even did a race sim around Brands

The reason why I found the park comment sad was that people moan about integration but you see people not happy that brown people are using the same parks in large numbers as them.

What does that day about us? Every race has racist elements in it. The white man is not the only person who has issues dealing with racism.

Just sad to see views like that. Depresses me greatly.

Then you wonder why Asians live close to each other and wonder why they refuse to integrate in some areas
How can you win when someone is not happy seeing you using the same park as him?

Tragic.

"The West are in a no win situation, when we failed to intervene to stop Saddam gassing his own population"

Dp you know who provided Sadaam with most of the machinery for the gas he was using to kill the kurds with?

Do you know whose actions led to the creation of the taliban in the first place?

comment by Wumpatrol (U5046)
posted 1 minute ago
"The West are in a no win situation, when we failed to intervene to stop Saddam gassing his own population"

Dp you know who provided Sadaam with most of the machinery for the gas he was using to kill the kurds with?

Do you know whose actions led to the creation of the taliban in the first place?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I blame the media in this country. A lot of people are completely ignorant of our roles in the ME.

Some do not know that we were funding Isis initially to topple Assad.

When Galloway challenged Cameron,he was mocked.

Our chickens are coming home to roost.

There are issues in the region and western intervention is not the sole problem but I find it amazing how we absolve ourselves from the chaos we caused.

"On my travels I have also seen a similar lack of integration by Muslim people in Kenya, where they seem to treat black Africans as second class citizens."

This is actually true but the problem in the first place lies with us Kenyan people and the way we treated the Somalis when they came to Kenya. They were a target for vile abuse and there was a genuine contempt to everything Somali. I remember it so well when I was growing up. Why would they want to integrate with people that treated them and continue to treat them as dirt?

comment by Wumpatrol (U5046)
posted 1 minute ago
"The West are in a no win situation, when we failed to intervene to stop Saddam gassing his own population"

Dp you know who provided Sadaam with most of the machinery for the gas he was using to kill the kurds with?

Do you know whose actions led to the creation of the taliban in the first place?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you realise that weapons were originally supplied to Saddam because of Western fears of a fundamentalist Iran, the same Iran that has been gung ho on developing an independent nuclear weapon?

Apart from the North Koreans I can't think of any country less suited to owning such a weapon.

"There are issues in the region and western
intervention is not the sole problem but I find it
amazing how we absolve ourselves from the chaos we caused."

Absolutely. The classic divide and conquer had lead to problems way after the Western powers have gone. In so many instances where there is nothing to benefit the Western powers, they have just sat back and watched as people killed each other.

"Do you realise that weapons were originally
supplied to Saddam because of Western fears of a
fundamentalist Iran, the same Iran that has been gung ho on developing an independent nuclear
weapon?"

I realize that but I find the fact that you see that as justified absolutely shocking.

Wum

Business will sell weapons to anyone,so it is not OUR fault Saddam used gas on his people,and we are always told he was ok,and kept the nuttier elements in check,even though his party are leading isis members.

We cannot be held wholly responsible for the Taliban,isis,AQ,boko haram because of past events............it is somewhat racist to say the natives can not think and organize themselves.
This was all lovely until the crusaders came,guff,will not wash.

Do I see efforts to suppress a fundamentalist and unstable Islamic regime hell bent on developing a nuclear weapon as justifiable?

Err, yes I do.

Do I agree with the use that Saddam put some of the weapons to against his own people ........ of course not.

So I am a racist now. Not surprised the most idiotic comment on the thread came from you. Also, nobody in the thread has claimed that the West is "wholy responsible" so calm your titties.

Suppress them by using nerve gas? You are kidding me right? And who on earth gave the West the mandate to decide who should and should not have nuclear weapons? If anything the US should be the first one to be stripped of the right because you know, they used it indiscriminately on the Japanese people. Who are they to point their fingers at anyone?

Muslim extremists are actively converting non-muslims to their cause,and brainwashing them to the death cult jihadi rape machine.

Cameron addressed forced marriage,and FGM,plus attitudes to gay people and women,so is this our fault too,somehow?
Some muslims view us as apes and pigs,as we are infidels,and this is not down to anything other than muslim bigotry.We skirt around how some muslims use the quran to be sexist,homophobic and sectarian.

I am amazed how quiet the LGBT and woman';s rights groups are,as they fear being islamophobic,perhaps.

Incidentally,Bosnia and Kosovo supply most foreign isis fighters,and the west actually helped the muslim's there,attacking serbs with bombs,but hey,just keep spinning the west is bad line,and it is all our fault.

Didn't take long did it?

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

I believe the nuclear non-prolifferation treaty extends well beyond the West, and as for the US dropping the H bombs on Japan I believe most historians agree that the loss of life involved, whilst horrific, was considerably less than was likely had a full scale invasion of the main Japanese islands been necessary.

Do you think the Japanese would have thought twice about using such a weapon against the US if they had such a thing available to them?

The fact that you are resorting to insults reduces the strength of your argument.

I have not insulted you, only the person resorting to calling me a racist because his argument has no legs to stand on

I wonder again how easily you find it to justify the use of nuclear weapons just because they aren't as powerful as they ones available today or that Japan would have used them if they had them! You can justify just about any Western atrocity can't you? Speaks volumes of the volumes of brainwashing that has occured thanks to the Western media always painting the Western powers out to fight for democracy and human values. What a load of nonsense.

Also, I bet those historians are from Western countries?

I don't mind having a sensible debate with anyone but when people resort to insults it suggests that they are losing the argument.

You seem unwilling or unable to accept any of the well reasoned points that have been made to you. Perhaps you should look for the "brainwashing" you refer to a little closer to home.

Well reasoned points?

1. Providing Iraq with nerve gas to use against Iran was justified.
2. Dropping 2 nukes on Japan was justified.

Yes, I don't mind not having a debate with someone who thinks the above are well reasoned points.

The reason why I found the park comment sad was that people moan about integration but you see people not happy that brown people are using the same parks in large numbers as them.

What does that day about us?
____________________
I somehow missed this comment made earlier People treat foreigners like dirt when they come in and then later start crying that they have not integrated with the rest of the society.

Wum

Which people treat foreigners like dirt?


Again,my racist reference was not serious,and sad that you know this,but insist on playing unsulted victim.
When I was not on here you wrongly claimed I absolved the west in relation to isis etc,and now you flap about,insulting the British people,who welcome millions of new faces to this land,where we largely live in peace,with freedom and dignity.

Not too many of us climbing on lorries trying to get out,Wum,but feel free to swap with a migrant at Calais.

Do you like living among us,ny the way,or is it awful for you?

Mudd

You quote an MI5 operative,saying muslims saw our involvement in certain areas as an attack on islam.

So,it is muslim's acting on religious convictions then,to defend global islam?

That is not what most muslim's are saying,but I tend to agree,and the fact that many muslim's are viewing the world on muslim and non-muslim lines,speaks volumes.That is why muslim ghettos form,and why Cameron is correct to counter islamist crazies.