Wumpatrol
why feel threatened by people who for all you know just want the same things as you for their families and want to live peacefully. Is it because they speak and dress differently from you? And how could you possibly know which ideology they support?
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Intelligent questions, some of which I can’t answer.

I think it’s all rolled into one really: Islamic ideology rejects democracy and freedom of speech, in my experience there is little integration and some 2nd and even 3rd generation Muslims in this country hardly speak English, the attire to me personally is oppressive - especially towards women, I don’t like the way animals are killed, I often disagree with Muslim speakers on TV or Youtube (“ISIS are wrong BUT British foreign policy is to blame/Muslims are misunderstood as it’s a religion of peace” etc), I don’t like going into a English park and feeling like I’m overseas (nothing to do with colour) - I like quintessential England, keep seeing polls/articles about British Muslims saying they are Muslim not British or sympathise with ISIS.

That article in the guardian doesn't go far enough to really show the origins of ISIS. It all comes down to the invasion of Iraq and the steps taken by the US to fight the Sunni militia that came up after the said invasion and the dismantling of every institution that existed contrary to the origin plan of rebuilding Iraq.

And I am no expert but my gut tells me they went against the original plan because they wanted to keep the place volatile to justify their stay there and siphon oil. It's only after they were having 10s of soldiers killed every week that they decided to pay a Shia militia to tackle the Sunni insurgency (most of which was Sadams government and army) which later on took power in Iraq and had no intention to reintegrate the Sunni's into government. So yes, it is the West's fault too.

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I agree Wumpatrol, it's complex and therefore open to many different viewpoints.

I think it's interesting how this journalist states: "Principally, Isis is the product of a genocide that continued unabated as the world stood back and watched."

What is British culture?

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" Speaking English should be a requirement for anyone who lives here and therefore I'm against things like this"

I agree with the first part of your sentence but it is useful for officers to have second languages for incidents involving tourists for example or liasing with colleagues overseas. However I don't think it should be a requirement although more should be done to encourage applicants from all parts of Britain - to allow better understanding of the communities they police but also to change the allegedly racist culture (if true) within the police force.

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Mudd

In your OP you blatantly lie by saying Cameron blames muslim's as a whole,thus inciting hatred,and sadly,providing weak minded and educated haters among the muslim community to feel alienated,and victimhood will enhance islamist recruiting and brainwashing.......well done sir.

Why would you put your false slant on such a sensitive subject?

Also,kindly stop aligning yourself with Wum in order to wrongly accuse me of absolving the west..............how many times do I have to say I was against Bush n Blair,with the WMD lies,that led to our troops dying,and then retreating from Iraq a Kabul and Tripoli.Western policies aided Islamism,in certain zones,and gave good propaganda to muslm natzi types.

It is more complex than western foreign policy however,and Islamism in Africa grows,free from our blame.In Wum's Kenya the US embassy was blown up in 1998,and musim nutters do not need our input for their sectarian agenda.

Islamist bile toward non-muslim's,women,gay folk and liberal free thinking is their fault and problem.

I do not want to see muslim's die by western bombs or muslim made bombs,and seek to counter extremism,be it white racist,islamist,Ir a,or uvf,black power,fundamentalist evangelical,or Catholic Jesuit,zionist right wing Judaism.................ALL RACISM AND BIGOTRY.

I am not some western warmonger,yank cheerleader,as you try to imply.

I think for myself,ta.

Finally,Mudd quoted an MI5 operative,who said western war in Iraq and Kabul radicalised muslim's who saw this as an attack on islam.........................NOW,IF THAT IS NOT PROOF RELIGION/ISLAM.MUSLIM FAITH is part of the problem,I give up.
Muslim's say this is nothing to do with religion or islam,but Mudd has provided proof that it is crucial,in the islamist cocktail of creating an unholy war on the rest of the world.
Without the politico/religious mix,islamism would not be such a potent force,and Catholic nationalism and Protestant loyalism have blended faith and fatherland with horrid results.

Muslim's go off to defend islam from the western infidel...................yea,but it ain't religious,you know,lol.
Muslim's went to Yugoslavia to defend muslim's,they never met,in Bosnia,because there is a muslim global brotherhood,based on religion,and islam,rather than anything else,and this is dangerous,as religious wars between Catholic and Protestant have ended,only to be replaced by fanatical Islamism,which came after Christianity,and is nowgoing through it's crazy violent stage,using so called western policies as ammo.

A bit off topic but compare the difference in reporting:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33604257

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2015/07/20/west-midlands-men-among-10-charged-with-abusing-teenage-boys/

BBC exposed.

TBAB, it is clear to me that thinking is not your strong point as well as interpretation of information presented to you.

I did not accuse Cameron of blaming muslims, however Warsi, a fellow Tory did criticise him of doing that. It is the same approach where muslims get blamed for ISIS and stuff of that nature.

You say that muslims go and fight where their muslim brothers are persecuted and link it to their belief systems? Right?

So, when we go and support our allies, what is it based on, religion?

You guys appear blind to the fact that a key cornerstone behind terrorism is politics, even Western terrorism. Politics

ISIS for instance, by their very name tell you they are involved in a land grab. Immediately they entered Iraq, they went first for the oil to make money and buy weapons, get more land and guess what, get involved in politics.

Now, our dear friends the turks, sat back and let ISIS butcher kurds because of, yup, you guessed it, politics. Where they not their fellow muslims?

Who funds ISIS? Our friends the Saudis, Iran is fighting ISIS as has Jordan, are they not muslims too? Are they defending ISIS against the Western oppressors as they are supposedly "muslims."

So, my dear friend, hopefully you adopt another approach to this debate as you do not understand the problem.

This is all a political game and I do not want British soldiers or tax payer money wasted in the region. If the countries in the ME feel ISIS is a problem, they should exterminate them.

We can send aid or provide tactical support, drones, etc.

Nothing more. In the interim, we need to stop persecuting our muslim brothers in the West or trying to claim their religion is the problem. If it was, the whole world would be burning as there are over a billion muslims.

Now we go to Africa, again it is political, Boko Haram, Al Shabaab and the rest of the nutters are after a land grab.

In Kenya and Nigeria, they are killing muslims and muslims are killing the terrorists. If terror was their sole purpose, why acquire land and try to protect it?

In Nigeria, a country I am intimately aware of, they do not make guns, so where are the weapons coming from and the money to support BH?

Think about it.

You want all this to stop, well, it is simple, stop propping up our so called allies in the region like the Saudis.

Some interesting reading;

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/jul/03/muslims-integrated-britain

Highlights;

83% of Muslims are proud to be a British citizen, compared to 79% of the general public.

• 77% of Muslims strongly identify with Britain while only 50% of the wider population do.

• 86.4% of Muslims feel they belong in Britain, slightly more than the 85.9% of Christians.

• 82% of Muslims want to live in diverse and mixed neighbourhoods compared to 63% of non-Muslim Britons.

• 90% of Pakistanis feel a strong sense of belonging in Britain compared to 84% of white people.

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Compare that with this;

47% of Britons see Muslims as a threat.

• Only 28% of Britons believe Muslims want to integrate into British society.

• 52% of Britons believe that Muslims create problems.

• 45% of Britons admit that they think there are too many Muslims in Britain.

• 55% of Britons would be concerned if a mosque was built in their area.

• 58% of Britons associate Islam with extremism.

Of course, the muslims are paranoid and it is all in their heads, right

Some interesting research from the US and I am more than confident we can draw similar distinctions here as we see white flight in the UK too.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/05/whites_prefer_to_live_with_whites_why_integrating_america_s_neighborhoods.html

White people become less racist just by moving to more diverse areas, study finds

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/white-people-become-less-racist-just-by-moving-to-more-diverse-areas-study-finds-9166506.html

Now, this works both ways as well but how do people integrate into a society, when they turn up and people flee or get upset when they see them in a park with them?

This is also a good read; http://socialintegrationcommission.org.uk/SIC_Report_WEB.pdf

TBAB, why did you not include the full quote from MI5?

“Our involvement in Iraq radicalised, for want of a better word, a whole generation of young people – not a whole generation, a few among a generation – who saw our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan as being an attack upon Islam." A statement from the Stop the War Coalition? No – it’s Eliza Manningham-Buller, the former head of MI5. Is she somehow an apologist for making such an observation?"

comment by (Kash) Mario Balle Balle Balotelli - Justice4Gaza (U1108)
posted 10 hours, 7 minutes ago
A bit off topic but compare the difference in reporting:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33604257

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2015/07/20/west-midlands-men-among-10-charged-with-abusing-teenage-boys/

BBC exposed.
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It is always the case, tragic

It is kinda crazy. Why on earth would they report it like that?

Sadly some people will continue to deny it even when the facts are staring them in the face

Now, this works both ways as well but how do people integrate into a society, when they turn up and people flee or get upset when they see them in a park with them?
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If that's a reference to what I said earlier, then I can only apologise for not speaking Arabic (or whatever language they were speaking). I did attempt to communicate whilst waiting to use a swing or trampoline, but through head nods, hand gestures and smiles.

I think polls like the one below are why many non-Muslims in our country feel concerned by the growing UK Muslim population:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11433776/Quarter-of-British-Muslims-sympathise-with-Charlie-Hebdo-terrorists.html

Highlights:

* One in four British Muslims sympathise with terrorists behind the Charlie Hebdo attacks
* 11 per cent said that magazines which publish images of the Prophet Mohammed "deserve to be attacked."
* 20 per cent say Western society is incompatible with Islam
* Baroness Warsi, the former Foreign Office minister, said the level of sympathy for the motives behind the Charlie Hebdo attacks was "worrying".

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality

Highlights:

* Muslims in Britain have zero tolerance towards homosexual acts
* None of the 500 British Muslims interviewed believed that homosexual acts were morally acceptable
* 3% of British Muslims questioned believed that $ex between unmarried men and women was moral.

Of course, the non-Muslims are paranoid and it is all in their heads, right.

ManUtdDaredevil

In complex situations like this, where substantial immigration has taken place at a rapid rate which has negatively impacted some of the indigenous people, it is always important to listen to all opinions without speaking down to people who hold a different opinion to your own. Speaking to those with contempt and disrespect only serves to antagonise. If that is your intention then well done - you are succeeding.