Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Again he will get the support from ed and the board until CL qualification is no longer possible.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Stretty - (U3123)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
I keep telling people, LvG is doing a poor job, my issue is that so was Jose, so why replace him with someone who did a poorer job?
Because Jose is one of the two best managers in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
who's the other one...?
I know most of you don't really like the media, but after the Chelsea game Mark Ogden spoke to an American sports station.
Ogden is the chief football writer for the Indpendant now. He thinks there's many people inside United that aren't confident in Van Gaal, he's there because of Woodward's belief in him. He also says that Woodward is undermined by the Co92 and that's why Giggs isn't in the job yet.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 1 minute ago
Elvis
But what proof is there to suggest either can do that?
In dreamland we would all love for that to happen and them to succeed but is it really possible? For me it's this fantasy land thinking that is making me worry about the future of our club.
---------
I haven't said they will succeed. Just refuting Don's claims that we need to get away from that kind of thinking, as you can bet the club is aiming for that very thing.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 1 minute ago
Jose is a 2 year manager with a scorched earth policy of management and does not fancy youth players. All hat is left for him to be is a lilypool fan and he would be the most anti-United manager ever to exist.
I honestly cannot take any united fan who sees Mourinho an seriously. They are just thinking about the next game rather than the next few seasons. We have the money to be Real Madrid, does not mean we therefore behave like them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LVG joined united for 3 years before retiring.
Pep spent 4 years at Barca, 3 at Bayern.
Average tenure of a PL manager is now c. 2 years.
Think people need to get away from this looking for a manager for the next 20 years mentality.
------
Not true. The club will be hoping that Giggs or Neville can do just that when the time comes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yep, well they tried that with moyes, giving him a 6 year contract, and that didn't even last 12 months.
-------
And? That means that Giggs and Neville will also fail? Great logic there mate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
no, that wasn't my point.
the point was that the board clearly don't view building a dynasty as all that important, they view having a successful manager in place as key.
and there is absolutely zero evidence that neville or giggs can be a success at any club, let alone united, whereas there is 20 trophies' worth of evidence that mourinho (as simply one example of many) can be a success.
It's one of the following
The board have faith in LVG
Pep is coming in the summer
We don't want Jose but can't get an alternative target
If it isn't number then the boards hand will be forced soon enough given the upcoming fixtures
comment by Mata's Left Foot - Louis van Gaal's Red and White Army! (U11781)
posted 1 minute ago
I know 1982, the board level is very outdated now. I think we should start employing a DoF model, set some sort of philosophy at playing level and hire a manager who adheres to it and buys players for it. Times are changing, Woodward shouldn't be relied upon to run the football side of things.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Said this for a while. Its the only way we can keep continuity.
Don just because of Moyes does not mean we stop aiming for a long term manager. It is a mentality that assumes the manager has already failed.
And? That means that Giggs and Neville will also fail? Great logic there mate.
Hold on there is nothing to suggest either will be a remotely competent manager as of yet. I would bank money both will fail in management.
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Stretty - (U3123)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
I keep telling people, LvG is doing a poor job, my issue is that so was Jose, so why replace him with someone who did a poorer job?
Because Jose is one of the two best managers in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
who's the other one...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
pep.
comment by Mata's Left Foot - Louis van Gaal's Red and White Army! (U11781)
posted 1 minute ago
He also says that Woodward is undermined by the Co92 and that's why Giggs isn't in the job yet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't really understand this bit.... what do they have to do with anything, they have no power or say in anything other than Ed ensuring Giggs was involved on the coaching side
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 1 minute ago
Jose is a 2 year manager with a scorched earth policy of management and does not fancy youth players. All hat is left for him to be is a lilypool fan and he would be the most anti-United manager ever to exist.
I honestly cannot take any united fan who sees Mourinho an seriously. They are just thinking about the next game rather than the next few seasons. We have the money to be Real Madrid, does not mean we therefore behave like them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LVG joined united for 3 years before retiring.
Pep spent 4 years at Barca, 3 at Bayern.
Average tenure of a PL manager is now c. 2 years.
Think people need to get away from this looking for a manager for the next 20 years mentality.
------
Not true. The club will be hoping that Giggs or Neville can do just that when the time comes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yep, well they tried that with moyes, giving him a 6 year contract, and that didn't even last 12 months.
-------
And? That means that Giggs and Neville will also fail? Great logic there mate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
no, that wasn't my point.
the point was that the board clearly don't view building a dynasty as all that important, they view having a successful manager in place as key.
and there is absolutely zero evidence that neville or giggs can be a success at any club, let alone united, whereas there is 20 trophies' worth of evidence that mourinho (as simply one example of many) can be a success.
---------
They have been preparing Giggs for almost a decade to be United manager. Just because they don't feel he is ready yet doesn't mean that they aren't planning on him being there long term when he does take over. In the meantime they have to accept shorter term options. Getting Pep for 3 years with Giggs then taking over would be perfect.
My stance is pretty clear on this.
I think the ideal scenario is LVG turning this around. However, the dreadful run of form we are in suggests that this will be difficult therefore he could well go if it gets any worse. IMO he has been far from great and while I can see some good things there are plenty of baffling decisions he makes as well.
Secondly, if he were to resign/be sacked then Mourinho should be a consideration as he has proved himself a successful manager over his career bar the last few months. If he were hired though he would need to be told in no uncertain terms what the values of the club are and what is expected and in return he could get full control. Something I don't think he has ever had. SAF speaks well of Mourinho and if he could see Jose managing United then I don't see why we can't. We all have opinions though and that is what makes football so great.
What I would like now though is, if LVG is staying, is a stamement from the board backing him to stop all this speculation. It could well be we are working on Guardiola and he would be the logical choice to succeed LVG and continue & improve the passing game we are trying to achieve.
I did think he would be gone a few days ago but it seems he is here to stay for now so let's hope for an upturn in results and performances. It may only take someone sparking into life in front of goal for us to do this and I feel an early goal in a game is vital for us at the moment.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 1 minute ago
Elvis
But what proof is there to suggest either can do that?
In dreamland we would all love for that to happen and them to succeed but is it really possible? For me it's this fantasy land thinking that is making me worry about the future of our club.
---------
I haven't said they will succeed. Just refuting Don's claims that we need to get away from that kind of thinking, as you can bet the club is aiming for that very thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yes but every club in the world hopes to find a manager to be a success with them for 4-6 + years (other than caretakers). all of rodgers/pellegrini/pochettino/koeman have been hired in the hope that they are good enough to stick around for years and really build a team, none of them were brought in as quick fixes.
when they do well, they are heroes, when they fail they are sacked - and rodgers went from one to the other in 16 months.
moyes was given a 6 year contract; when it turned out that he was rubbish he got chopped, he wasn't saved because one scotsman 25 years ago had a rough start to his career and then became a legend.
question is what would success be for LVG? and many on here seem to think that if he scrapes 4th this season that is good enough, but it really shouldn't be.
Elvis
But don is staying that long term mangers don't really exist these days. I could want us to get the ghost of Matt Busby and for him to manage us for the next 50 years but there's no proof it can work.
I would love Giggs and/or Neville to succeed and last a long time but do you honestly think it's likely?
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 9 seconds ago
My stance is pretty clear on this.
I think the ideal scenario is LVG turning this around. However, the dreadful run of form we are in suggests that this will be difficult therefore he could well go if it gets any worse. IMO he has been far from great and while I can see some good things there are plenty of baffling decisions he makes as well.
Secondly, if he were to resign/be sacked then Mourinho should be a consideration as he has proved himself a successful manager over his career bar the last few months. If he were hired though he would need to be told in no uncertain terms what the values of the club are and what is expected and in return he could get full control. Something I don't think he has ever had. SAF speaks well of Mourinho and if he could see Jose managing United then I don't see why we can't. We all have opinions though and that is what makes football so great.
What I would like now though is, if LVG is staying, is a stamement from the board backing him to stop all this speculation. It could well be we are working on Guardiola and he would be the logical choice to succeed LVG and continue & improve the passing game we are trying to achieve.
I did think he would be gone a few days ago but it seems he is here to stay for now so let's hope for an upturn in results and performances. It may only take someone sparking into life in front of goal for us to do this and I feel an early goal in a game is vital for us at the moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agree with pretty much all of this.
Diafol
Pretty much agree with that. Only concern is that I've seen little in the past 18 months that gives me much confidence LVG can sort things out and improve us. Would love it if he could.
This is the reality people need to get used to. Gone are the days where a manager can build a team for success for decades. Unless good results can be maintained within a period of rebuilding then I'm afraid it's curtains for managers. Just look at Moyes, he was given a SIX year contract and sacked after 10 months because he didn't maintain a required standard whilst building his own team. Top 4 has seen to that, it's the standard buy which clubs can maintin their finances and therefore build to compete at the top.
Whatever way you look at it there is only one long term option available, from the front runners (in terms of who will stay as long as the board want him) and that's Giggs.
LVG is off at the latest in 18 months
Mourinho as people have said is a short term success garanteed option then tends to become unpredictable.(My own opinion though is he wants to create something somewhere and I think United is high on that list) If he won a league title at United I think he would be given time to turn it round if he has a season like this.
Pep is a short stay manager, he even left his boyhood club when there was surely more titles in that side.
There are a few outsiders like Blanc/Conte but if it's a current manager we are looking for I'd presume it's someone who has won the EC.
SAF was a one off, if we get five years out of our next manager we will be doing great.
On a side note, if it's going to be Giggs and we see the Scholes, Butt, Neville lined up behind him in the dug out I will cringe.
What I would like now though is, if LVG is staying, is a stamement from the board backing him to stop all this speculation.
***
the LVG circus continued to Swansea despite the run of results he has achieved recently.
What more of a louder recommendation and backing of LVGs regiem do you need from MUFC
I get why people wouldn't want Mourinho due to his character, but if you did get him, that is a frightening prospect. I actually think your squad is in the perfect situation for him as he always does a few changes that improve a squad, he did it with real, inter and Chelsea both times.
It is a high pressure management that he employs, which is why he only really lasts three years. The idea he doesn't love good squads behind is a myth though.
Personally, I would stick with Van Gaal for a while yet if you aren't going to go after Mourinho. I have nothing to back this up but personal opinion, but I don't think giggs would be a success for you.
Good post Melton especially the 1st para.
Melton
Agreed, I think if Jose ain't an option we have little choice but to stay with LVG for the time being. I'm just worried he's gonna become even more stubborn and we will see a similar scenario when he left previous clubs which didn't end well.
Sign in if you want to comment
No way Jose?
Page 4 of 10
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posted on 30/12/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/12/15
Again he will get the support from ed and the board until CL qualification is no longer possible.
posted on 30/12/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/12/15
comment by Stretty - (U3123)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
I keep telling people, LvG is doing a poor job, my issue is that so was Jose, so why replace him with someone who did a poorer job?
Because Jose is one of the two best managers in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
who's the other one...?
posted on 30/12/15
I know most of you don't really like the media, but after the Chelsea game Mark Ogden spoke to an American sports station.
Ogden is the chief football writer for the Indpendant now. He thinks there's many people inside United that aren't confident in Van Gaal, he's there because of Woodward's belief in him. He also says that Woodward is undermined by the Co92 and that's why Giggs isn't in the job yet.
posted on 30/12/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/12/15
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 1 minute ago
Elvis
But what proof is there to suggest either can do that?
In dreamland we would all love for that to happen and them to succeed but is it really possible? For me it's this fantasy land thinking that is making me worry about the future of our club.
---------
I haven't said they will succeed. Just refuting Don's claims that we need to get away from that kind of thinking, as you can bet the club is aiming for that very thing.
posted on 30/12/15
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 1 minute ago
Jose is a 2 year manager with a scorched earth policy of management and does not fancy youth players. All hat is left for him to be is a lilypool fan and he would be the most anti-United manager ever to exist.
I honestly cannot take any united fan who sees Mourinho an seriously. They are just thinking about the next game rather than the next few seasons. We have the money to be Real Madrid, does not mean we therefore behave like them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LVG joined united for 3 years before retiring.
Pep spent 4 years at Barca, 3 at Bayern.
Average tenure of a PL manager is now c. 2 years.
Think people need to get away from this looking for a manager for the next 20 years mentality.
------
Not true. The club will be hoping that Giggs or Neville can do just that when the time comes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yep, well they tried that with moyes, giving him a 6 year contract, and that didn't even last 12 months.
-------
And? That means that Giggs and Neville will also fail? Great logic there mate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
no, that wasn't my point.
the point was that the board clearly don't view building a dynasty as all that important, they view having a successful manager in place as key.
and there is absolutely zero evidence that neville or giggs can be a success at any club, let alone united, whereas there is 20 trophies' worth of evidence that mourinho (as simply one example of many) can be a success.
posted on 30/12/15
It's one of the following
The board have faith in LVG
Pep is coming in the summer
We don't want Jose but can't get an alternative target
If it isn't number then the boards hand will be forced soon enough given the upcoming fixtures
posted on 30/12/15
comment by Mata's Left Foot - Louis van Gaal's Red and White Army! (U11781)
posted 1 minute ago
I know 1982, the board level is very outdated now. I think we should start employing a DoF model, set some sort of philosophy at playing level and hire a manager who adheres to it and buys players for it. Times are changing, Woodward shouldn't be relied upon to run the football side of things.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Said this for a while. Its the only way we can keep continuity.
Don just because of Moyes does not mean we stop aiming for a long term manager. It is a mentality that assumes the manager has already failed.
posted on 30/12/15
And? That means that Giggs and Neville will also fail? Great logic there mate.
Hold on there is nothing to suggest either will be a remotely competent manager as of yet. I would bank money both will fail in management.
posted on 30/12/15
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Stretty - (U3123)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
I keep telling people, LvG is doing a poor job, my issue is that so was Jose, so why replace him with someone who did a poorer job?
Because Jose is one of the two best managers in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
who's the other one...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
pep.
posted on 30/12/15
comment by Mata's Left Foot - Louis van Gaal's Red and White Army! (U11781)
posted 1 minute ago
He also says that Woodward is undermined by the Co92 and that's why Giggs isn't in the job yet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't really understand this bit.... what do they have to do with anything, they have no power or say in anything other than Ed ensuring Giggs was involved on the coaching side
posted on 30/12/15
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 1 minute ago
Jose is a 2 year manager with a scorched earth policy of management and does not fancy youth players. All hat is left for him to be is a lilypool fan and he would be the most anti-United manager ever to exist.
I honestly cannot take any united fan who sees Mourinho an seriously. They are just thinking about the next game rather than the next few seasons. We have the money to be Real Madrid, does not mean we therefore behave like them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LVG joined united for 3 years before retiring.
Pep spent 4 years at Barca, 3 at Bayern.
Average tenure of a PL manager is now c. 2 years.
Think people need to get away from this looking for a manager for the next 20 years mentality.
------
Not true. The club will be hoping that Giggs or Neville can do just that when the time comes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yep, well they tried that with moyes, giving him a 6 year contract, and that didn't even last 12 months.
-------
And? That means that Giggs and Neville will also fail? Great logic there mate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
no, that wasn't my point.
the point was that the board clearly don't view building a dynasty as all that important, they view having a successful manager in place as key.
and there is absolutely zero evidence that neville or giggs can be a success at any club, let alone united, whereas there is 20 trophies' worth of evidence that mourinho (as simply one example of many) can be a success.
---------
They have been preparing Giggs for almost a decade to be United manager. Just because they don't feel he is ready yet doesn't mean that they aren't planning on him being there long term when he does take over. In the meantime they have to accept shorter term options. Getting Pep for 3 years with Giggs then taking over would be perfect.
posted on 30/12/15
My stance is pretty clear on this.
I think the ideal scenario is LVG turning this around. However, the dreadful run of form we are in suggests that this will be difficult therefore he could well go if it gets any worse. IMO he has been far from great and while I can see some good things there are plenty of baffling decisions he makes as well.
Secondly, if he were to resign/be sacked then Mourinho should be a consideration as he has proved himself a successful manager over his career bar the last few months. If he were hired though he would need to be told in no uncertain terms what the values of the club are and what is expected and in return he could get full control. Something I don't think he has ever had. SAF speaks well of Mourinho and if he could see Jose managing United then I don't see why we can't. We all have opinions though and that is what makes football so great.
What I would like now though is, if LVG is staying, is a stamement from the board backing him to stop all this speculation. It could well be we are working on Guardiola and he would be the logical choice to succeed LVG and continue & improve the passing game we are trying to achieve.
I did think he would be gone a few days ago but it seems he is here to stay for now so let's hope for an upturn in results and performances. It may only take someone sparking into life in front of goal for us to do this and I feel an early goal in a game is vital for us at the moment.
posted on 30/12/15
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 1 minute ago
Elvis
But what proof is there to suggest either can do that?
In dreamland we would all love for that to happen and them to succeed but is it really possible? For me it's this fantasy land thinking that is making me worry about the future of our club.
---------
I haven't said they will succeed. Just refuting Don's claims that we need to get away from that kind of thinking, as you can bet the club is aiming for that very thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yes but every club in the world hopes to find a manager to be a success with them for 4-6 + years (other than caretakers). all of rodgers/pellegrini/pochettino/koeman have been hired in the hope that they are good enough to stick around for years and really build a team, none of them were brought in as quick fixes.
when they do well, they are heroes, when they fail they are sacked - and rodgers went from one to the other in 16 months.
moyes was given a 6 year contract; when it turned out that he was rubbish he got chopped, he wasn't saved because one scotsman 25 years ago had a rough start to his career and then became a legend.
question is what would success be for LVG? and many on here seem to think that if he scrapes 4th this season that is good enough, but it really shouldn't be.
posted on 30/12/15
Elvis
But don is staying that long term mangers don't really exist these days. I could want us to get the ghost of Matt Busby and for him to manage us for the next 50 years but there's no proof it can work.
I would love Giggs and/or Neville to succeed and last a long time but do you honestly think it's likely?
posted on 30/12/15
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 9 seconds ago
My stance is pretty clear on this.
I think the ideal scenario is LVG turning this around. However, the dreadful run of form we are in suggests that this will be difficult therefore he could well go if it gets any worse. IMO he has been far from great and while I can see some good things there are plenty of baffling decisions he makes as well.
Secondly, if he were to resign/be sacked then Mourinho should be a consideration as he has proved himself a successful manager over his career bar the last few months. If he were hired though he would need to be told in no uncertain terms what the values of the club are and what is expected and in return he could get full control. Something I don't think he has ever had. SAF speaks well of Mourinho and if he could see Jose managing United then I don't see why we can't. We all have opinions though and that is what makes football so great.
What I would like now though is, if LVG is staying, is a stamement from the board backing him to stop all this speculation. It could well be we are working on Guardiola and he would be the logical choice to succeed LVG and continue & improve the passing game we are trying to achieve.
I did think he would be gone a few days ago but it seems he is here to stay for now so let's hope for an upturn in results and performances. It may only take someone sparking into life in front of goal for us to do this and I feel an early goal in a game is vital for us at the moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agree with pretty much all of this.
posted on 30/12/15
Diafol
Pretty much agree with that. Only concern is that I've seen little in the past 18 months that gives me much confidence LVG can sort things out and improve us. Would love it if he could.
posted on 30/12/15
This is the reality people need to get used to. Gone are the days where a manager can build a team for success for decades. Unless good results can be maintained within a period of rebuilding then I'm afraid it's curtains for managers. Just look at Moyes, he was given a SIX year contract and sacked after 10 months because he didn't maintain a required standard whilst building his own team. Top 4 has seen to that, it's the standard buy which clubs can maintin their finances and therefore build to compete at the top.
Whatever way you look at it there is only one long term option available, from the front runners (in terms of who will stay as long as the board want him) and that's Giggs.
LVG is off at the latest in 18 months
Mourinho as people have said is a short term success garanteed option then tends to become unpredictable.(My own opinion though is he wants to create something somewhere and I think United is high on that list) If he won a league title at United I think he would be given time to turn it round if he has a season like this.
Pep is a short stay manager, he even left his boyhood club when there was surely more titles in that side.
There are a few outsiders like Blanc/Conte but if it's a current manager we are looking for I'd presume it's someone who has won the EC.
SAF was a one off, if we get five years out of our next manager we will be doing great.
On a side note, if it's going to be Giggs and we see the Scholes, Butt, Neville lined up behind him in the dug out I will cringe.
posted on 30/12/15
What I would like now though is, if LVG is staying, is a stamement from the board backing him to stop all this speculation.
***
the LVG circus continued to Swansea despite the run of results he has achieved recently.
What more of a louder recommendation and backing of LVGs regiem do you need from MUFC
posted on 30/12/15
I get why people wouldn't want Mourinho due to his character, but if you did get him, that is a frightening prospect. I actually think your squad is in the perfect situation for him as he always does a few changes that improve a squad, he did it with real, inter and Chelsea both times.
It is a high pressure management that he employs, which is why he only really lasts three years. The idea he doesn't love good squads behind is a myth though.
Personally, I would stick with Van Gaal for a while yet if you aren't going to go after Mourinho. I have nothing to back this up but personal opinion, but I don't think giggs would be a success for you.
posted on 30/12/15
Leave not love!
posted on 30/12/15
Good post Melton especially the 1st para.
posted on 30/12/15
Melton
Agreed, I think if Jose ain't an option we have little choice but to stay with LVG for the time being. I'm just worried he's gonna become even more stubborn and we will see a similar scenario when he left previous clubs which didn't end well.
Page 4 of 10
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