A handful of attacks = persecution?
In no way are Jews being persecuted in France, targeted by violent bigots definitely, but its not organised and it does not make France an anti Semitic country any more than the verbal and physical attacks on poles in the UK makes us a racist country.
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
JSpurs
because they have been, historically, victimised and slaughtered, dispropotionately blamed for other states failures.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a seperste argument though.
In favour of a Jewish state, two arguments have been raised :
1. Jewish people are discrimated and attacked when living elsewhere
2. Jewish people dont want to feel like they are in a minority
The counter argument to 1 is that Jews live all round the world now and arent victimised or attacked any more elsewhere than they are in Israel
The counter argument to 2 is that noone else has their own state so as not to feel like they are in a minority, so so should Jewosh people.
The truth of the matter, imo, is that there is no valid jsutification for the existence of a Jewish state, and certainly not at the expense of another people who were previously in posession of the land.
We take it for granted that the state is justified, because America and the countries and organisations that they control tell us that there is. They tell us that because American politicians want Jewish americans to vote for them.
It's a nonsense, imo.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 31 seconds ago
A handful of attacks = persecution?
In no way are Jews being persecuted in France, targeted by violent bigots definitely, but its not organised and it does not make France an anti Semitic country any more than the verbal and physical attacks on poles in the UK makes us a racist country.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can argue over words but there is no doubt that Jews in France feel threatened by a large radical group inside France
----------------------------------------------------
But the fact that Israel exists makes no difference to their plight. They are still in France.
If they did consider it necessary to move due to persecution, then they could seek asylum in another country anyway.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by JSpurs (U1059)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
JSpurs
because they have been, historically, victimised and slaughtered, dispropotionately blamed for other states failures.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a seperste argument though.
In favour of a Jewish state, two arguments have been raised :
1. Jewish people are discrimated and attacked when living elsewhere
2. Jewish people dont want to feel like they are in a minority
The counter argument to 1 is that Jews live all round the world now and arent victimised or attacked any more elsewhere than they are in Israel
The counter argument to 2 is that noone else has their own state so as not to feel like they are in a minority, so so should Jewosh people.
The truth of the matter, imo, is that there is no valid jsutification for the existence of a Jewish state, and certainly not at the expense of another people who were previously in posession of the land.
We take it for granted that the state is justified, because America and the countries and organisations that they control tell us that there is. They tell us that because American politicians want Jewish americans to vote for them.
It's a nonsense, imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, American politicians are desperare to court a minority that make up 1.7 to 2.6% of the population.
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by JSpurs (U1059)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
JSpurs
because they have been, historically, victimised and slaughtered, dispropotionately blamed for other states failures.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a seperste argument though.
In favour of a Jewish state, two arguments have been raised :
1. Jewish people are discrimated and attacked when living elsewhere
2. Jewish people dont want to feel like they are in a minority
The counter argument to 1 is that Jews live all round the world now and arent victimised or attacked any more elsewhere than they are in Israel
The counter argument to 2 is that noone else has their own state so as not to feel like they are in a minority, so so should Jewosh people.
The truth of the matter, imo, is that there is no valid jsutification for the existence of a Jewish state, and certainly not at the expense of another people who were previously in posession of the land.
We take it for granted that the state is justified, because America and the countries and organisations that they control tell us that there is. They tell us that because American politicians want Jewish americans to vote for them.
It's a nonsense, imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of these points were covered in greater detail yesterday. Are you saying Israel should be dismantled?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess I am.
I see no jusitifcation for the existence in the 21st century of a country to promote and protect a particular religion to the exclusion of others.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 31 seconds ago
A handful of attacks = persecution?
In no way are Jews being persecuted in France, targeted by violent bigots definitely, but its not organised and it does not make France an anti Semitic country any more than the verbal and physical attacks on poles in the UK makes us a racist country.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can argue over words but there is no doubt that Jews in France feel threatened by a large radical group inside France.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No more or less than the rest of French people, including Muslims.
Muslims who it is arguable are being culturally discriminated against by the state trying to dictate what is acceptable for them to wear and by employers who discriminate when muslims apply for jobs, but that's getting away from the point.
There has always been anti Jewish and anti Muslim attacks in Europe, this is nothing new but to say that jews in 21st century France are persecuted is false.
We all feel threatened by the rise in fundamental Islamic terrorism just like we felt threatened by Irish nationalism terror attacks, we beat them by living our lives regardless of the threats.
comment by JSpurs (U1059)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by JSpurs (U1059)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
JSpurs
because they have been, historically, victimised and slaughtered, dispropotionately blamed for other states failures.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a seperste argument though.
In favour of a Jewish state, two arguments have been raised :
1. Jewish people are discrimated and attacked when living elsewhere
2. Jewish people dont want to feel like they are in a minority
The counter argument to 1 is that Jews live all round the world now and arent victimised or attacked any more elsewhere than they are in Israel
The counter argument to 2 is that noone else has their own state so as not to feel like they are in a minority, so so should Jewosh people.
The truth of the matter, imo, is that there is no valid jsutification for the existence of a Jewish state, and certainly not at the expense of another people who were previously in posession of the land.
We take it for granted that the state is justified, because America and the countries and organisations that they control tell us that there is. They tell us that because American politicians want Jewish americans to vote for them.
It's a nonsense, imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of these points were covered in greater detail yesterday. Are you saying Israel should be dismantled?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess I am.
I see no jusitifcation for the existence in the 21st century of a country to promote and protect a particular religion to the exclusion of others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you would also be against Palestine being a country?
Most of the ME in fact.
Or is it just the nasty Jews who control America like a puppet?
Evening Hec.
I saw a programme by Adrian Chiles on marsailles, and a school where most kids were muslim and the jewish pupils were afraid to say they were jews
Jews are leaving Paris after attacks on them, similar to London and brussels.
Jewish graves were attacked in Belfast after Celtic played the Israeli team, so far right anti- semitism is being replaced by islamist and far left nutters.
In university, jewish students are called zio, and hatred of israel is openly displayed, even by the NUS who refuse to condemn isis, but give platforms to Israel haters.
comment by JSpurs (U1059)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by JSpurs (U1059)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
JSpurs
because they have been, historically, victimised and slaughtered, dispropotionately blamed for other states failures.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a seperste argument though.
In favour of a Jewish state, two arguments have been raised :
1. Jewish people are discrimated and attacked when living elsewhere
2. Jewish people dont want to feel like they are in a minority
The counter argument to 1 is that Jews live all round the world now and arent victimised or attacked any more elsewhere than they are in Israel
The counter argument to 2 is that noone else has their own state so as not to feel like they are in a minority, so so should Jewosh people.
The truth of the matter, imo, is that there is no valid jsutification for the existence of a Jewish state, and certainly not at the expense of another people who were previously in posession of the land.
We take it for granted that the state is justified, because America and the countries and organisations that they control tell us that there is. They tell us that because American politicians want Jewish americans to vote for them.
It's a nonsense, imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of these points were covered in greater detail yesterday. Are you saying Israel should be dismantled?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess I am.
I see no jusitifcation for the existence in the 21st century of a country to promote and protect a particular religion to the exclusion of others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Many arabs and non jews live in Israel.
Not many, if any, jews or christians in several mostly muslim states.Saudi, Afghanistan, Pakistan, iraq, Syria, yemen,Iran etc etc.
Aftet petsecution and the final solution, no wonder jews sought a safe haven.
Arab neighbours and hamas try to wipe them out, hence hard and at times ectreme retaliation from israel.
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by JSpurs (U1059)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by JSpurs (U1059)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
JSpurs
because they have been, historically, victimised and slaughtered, dispropotionately blamed for other states failures.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a seperste argument though.
In favour of a Jewish state, two arguments have been raised :
1. Jewish people are discrimated and attacked when living elsewhere
2. Jewish people dont want to feel like they are in a minority
The counter argument to 1 is that Jews live all round the world now and arent victimised or attacked any more elsewhere than they are in Israel
The counter argument to 2 is that noone else has their own state so as not to feel like they are in a minority, so so should Jewosh people.
The truth of the matter, imo, is that there is no valid jsutification for the existence of a Jewish state, and certainly not at the expense of another people who were previously in posession of the land.
We take it for granted that the state is justified, because America and the countries and organisations that they control tell us that there is. They tell us that because American politicians want Jewish americans to vote for them.
It's a nonsense, imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of these points were covered in greater detail yesterday. Are you saying Israel should be dismantled?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess I am.
I see no jusitifcation for the existence in the 21st century of a country to promote and protect a particular religion to the exclusion of others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you would also be against Palestine being a country?
Most of the ME in fact.
Or is it just the nasty Jews who control America like a puppet?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All borders are man made really, unless we are an island....and even then, ulster says no, along with scots and welsh, who like a border😃
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 23 hours, 54 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 2 minutes ago
Counting that's different French and Dutch people are largely white and Christian so taking their land would be wrong.
Look for a close to 3000 year old claim on some land owned by some Muslims instead and give them that land, if they fight back then they deserve all the punishment they get...
I really don't get it either, I think you have to start with the position that Israel is in the right and people who oppose them are in the wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The area has had many peoples living there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So has London...
Think you might get some fighting if you had a foreign people try to kick the locals out and take it for themselves regardless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmmmm, white flight since the seventies😉
Sizzle admits whites were pushed out of London.Not only by landlord prices and developers.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Free Israel, Ulster, Uk and Usa😁
Sizzle.
You were delighted a white jewish bloke did not win the mayoral contest, but if the tory was a muslim, and the labour candidate was a jew , which intolerance would you set aside to pick a London mayor?
comment by thebluebellsareblue (U9292)
posted 34 minutes ago
Evening Hec.
I saw a programme by Adrian Chiles on marsailles, and a school where most kids were muslim and the jewish pupils were afraid to say they were jews
Jews are leaving Paris after attacks on them, similar to London and brussels.
Jewish graves were attacked in Belfast after Celtic played the Israeli team, so far right anti- semitism is being replaced by islamist and far left nutters.
In university, jewish students are called zio, and hatred of israel is openly displayed, even by the NUS who refuse to condemn isis, but give platforms to Israel haters.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello tbab
In Bristol bacon sandwiches were thrown at the mosque, pupils are called terrorists, headscarves are being pulled off of heads and abuse hauled on buses and trams.
Haters are going to hate.
I personally don't have an issue with the state of Isreal, but as I said above the land grab of palestinian land, the disproportionate and collective punishment metered out to the non militant men women and children the palestinians shouldn't be above criticism and condemnation.
That's not a lefty opinion that's just normal, what happened to the Jews historically should not be a bar on what they're doing now.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Sizzle
Not sure if you know, but aul timer Sandy is taking a break from ja, and he gave you a shout.
Chelsea fan in peace.
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsareblue (U9292)
posted 34 minutes ago
Evening Hec.
I saw a programme by Adrian Chiles on marsailles, and a school where most kids were muslim and the jewish pupils were afraid to say they were jews
Jews are leaving Paris after attacks on them, similar to London and brussels.
Jewish graves were attacked in Belfast after Celtic played the Israeli team, so far right anti- semitism is being replaced by islamist and far left nutters.
In university, jewish students are called zio, and hatred of israel is openly displayed, even by the NUS who refuse to condemn isis, but give platforms to Israel haters.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello tbab
In Bristol bacon sandwiches were thrown at the mosque, pupils are called terrorists, headscarves are being pulled off of heads and abuse hauled on buses and trams.
Haters are going to hate.
I personally don't have an issue with the state of Isreal, but as I said above the land grab of palestinian land, the disproportionate and collective punishment metered out to the non militant men women and children the palestinians shouldn't be above criticism and condemnation.
That's not a lefty opinion that's just normal, what happened to the Jews historically should not be a bar on what they're doing now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry hec, I was not trying to downplay racist attacks on muslim folk, but I felt the attacks on jews in Euroe were being dismissed, to an extent
Pwicks in belfast have left pig heads at the south belfast islamic centre, and the synagogue in north belfast....racist skumbags all.
In some loyalist areas there are anti-mmuslim acts hete, but loyalists are also supporting muslim and east european newcomers, and I try to do a wee bit to get loyalists to stop such racist abuse.
I also think Israel and Palestine should exist side by side, with no violence.
Hamas ned to wise up and the Idf need to be proportionate.
There are attacks on christian churches in israel, by hardline jewish groups, so I am not saying they are angels.
None of us are.
Personally I think Israel and Palestine should both exist.
Israel does wrong, but have historically had wrongs done to them. They are a product of their environment.
The Palestine cause does not help itself all the time they have Hamas in government - an organisation that's covenant calls for extermination of Jews and obliteration of Israel. This too is a product of their environment.
The former fans the latter, which in turn fans the former. The cycle continues.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Sizzle
When people think they have no future they do things no normal person would do, what right minded person thinks it an aspiration to blow themselves and their enemy up?
It's catch-22 in that conflict, no amount of violence is going to solve it but as tbab will probably testify too, a solution however imperfect and painful has to be preferable to what's happening now, its only my opinion but its the Isrealis that are going to take the bigger pain.
Militarily vastly superior they are the ones that are going to have to give an inch. The others are going to have to swallow their pride, accept that what's lost is lost and gone forever (Phil Coulter) and they're both going to have to become neighbours.
Sign in if you want to comment
Relationship between Left and Fascism
Page 30 of 45
31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35
posted on 13/11/16
A handful of attacks = persecution?
In no way are Jews being persecuted in France, targeted by violent bigots definitely, but its not organised and it does not make France an anti Semitic country any more than the verbal and physical attacks on poles in the UK makes us a racist country.
posted on 13/11/16
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
JSpurs
because they have been, historically, victimised and slaughtered, dispropotionately blamed for other states failures.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a seperste argument though.
In favour of a Jewish state, two arguments have been raised :
1. Jewish people are discrimated and attacked when living elsewhere
2. Jewish people dont want to feel like they are in a minority
The counter argument to 1 is that Jews live all round the world now and arent victimised or attacked any more elsewhere than they are in Israel
The counter argument to 2 is that noone else has their own state so as not to feel like they are in a minority, so so should Jewosh people.
The truth of the matter, imo, is that there is no valid jsutification for the existence of a Jewish state, and certainly not at the expense of another people who were previously in posession of the land.
We take it for granted that the state is justified, because America and the countries and organisations that they control tell us that there is. They tell us that because American politicians want Jewish americans to vote for them.
It's a nonsense, imo.
posted on 13/11/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/11/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/11/16
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 31 seconds ago
A handful of attacks = persecution?
In no way are Jews being persecuted in France, targeted by violent bigots definitely, but its not organised and it does not make France an anti Semitic country any more than the verbal and physical attacks on poles in the UK makes us a racist country.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can argue over words but there is no doubt that Jews in France feel threatened by a large radical group inside France
----------------------------------------------------
But the fact that Israel exists makes no difference to their plight. They are still in France.
If they did consider it necessary to move due to persecution, then they could seek asylum in another country anyway.
posted on 13/11/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/11/16
comment by JSpurs (U1059)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
JSpurs
because they have been, historically, victimised and slaughtered, dispropotionately blamed for other states failures.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a seperste argument though.
In favour of a Jewish state, two arguments have been raised :
1. Jewish people are discrimated and attacked when living elsewhere
2. Jewish people dont want to feel like they are in a minority
The counter argument to 1 is that Jews live all round the world now and arent victimised or attacked any more elsewhere than they are in Israel
The counter argument to 2 is that noone else has their own state so as not to feel like they are in a minority, so so should Jewosh people.
The truth of the matter, imo, is that there is no valid jsutification for the existence of a Jewish state, and certainly not at the expense of another people who were previously in posession of the land.
We take it for granted that the state is justified, because America and the countries and organisations that they control tell us that there is. They tell us that because American politicians want Jewish americans to vote for them.
It's a nonsense, imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, American politicians are desperare to court a minority that make up 1.7 to 2.6% of the population.
posted on 13/11/16
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by JSpurs (U1059)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
JSpurs
because they have been, historically, victimised and slaughtered, dispropotionately blamed for other states failures.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a seperste argument though.
In favour of a Jewish state, two arguments have been raised :
1. Jewish people are discrimated and attacked when living elsewhere
2. Jewish people dont want to feel like they are in a minority
The counter argument to 1 is that Jews live all round the world now and arent victimised or attacked any more elsewhere than they are in Israel
The counter argument to 2 is that noone else has their own state so as not to feel like they are in a minority, so so should Jewosh people.
The truth of the matter, imo, is that there is no valid jsutification for the existence of a Jewish state, and certainly not at the expense of another people who were previously in posession of the land.
We take it for granted that the state is justified, because America and the countries and organisations that they control tell us that there is. They tell us that because American politicians want Jewish americans to vote for them.
It's a nonsense, imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of these points were covered in greater detail yesterday. Are you saying Israel should be dismantled?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess I am.
I see no jusitifcation for the existence in the 21st century of a country to promote and protect a particular religion to the exclusion of others.
posted on 13/11/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/11/16
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 31 seconds ago
A handful of attacks = persecution?
In no way are Jews being persecuted in France, targeted by violent bigots definitely, but its not organised and it does not make France an anti Semitic country any more than the verbal and physical attacks on poles in the UK makes us a racist country.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can argue over words but there is no doubt that Jews in France feel threatened by a large radical group inside France.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No more or less than the rest of French people, including Muslims.
Muslims who it is arguable are being culturally discriminated against by the state trying to dictate what is acceptable for them to wear and by employers who discriminate when muslims apply for jobs, but that's getting away from the point.
There has always been anti Jewish and anti Muslim attacks in Europe, this is nothing new but to say that jews in 21st century France are persecuted is false.
We all feel threatened by the rise in fundamental Islamic terrorism just like we felt threatened by Irish nationalism terror attacks, we beat them by living our lives regardless of the threats.
posted on 13/11/16
comment by JSpurs (U1059)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by JSpurs (U1059)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
JSpurs
because they have been, historically, victimised and slaughtered, dispropotionately blamed for other states failures.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a seperste argument though.
In favour of a Jewish state, two arguments have been raised :
1. Jewish people are discrimated and attacked when living elsewhere
2. Jewish people dont want to feel like they are in a minority
The counter argument to 1 is that Jews live all round the world now and arent victimised or attacked any more elsewhere than they are in Israel
The counter argument to 2 is that noone else has their own state so as not to feel like they are in a minority, so so should Jewosh people.
The truth of the matter, imo, is that there is no valid jsutification for the existence of a Jewish state, and certainly not at the expense of another people who were previously in posession of the land.
We take it for granted that the state is justified, because America and the countries and organisations that they control tell us that there is. They tell us that because American politicians want Jewish americans to vote for them.
It's a nonsense, imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of these points were covered in greater detail yesterday. Are you saying Israel should be dismantled?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess I am.
I see no jusitifcation for the existence in the 21st century of a country to promote and protect a particular religion to the exclusion of others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you would also be against Palestine being a country?
Most of the ME in fact.
Or is it just the nasty Jews who control America like a puppet?
posted on 13/11/16
Evening Hec.
I saw a programme by Adrian Chiles on marsailles, and a school where most kids were muslim and the jewish pupils were afraid to say they were jews
Jews are leaving Paris after attacks on them, similar to London and brussels.
Jewish graves were attacked in Belfast after Celtic played the Israeli team, so far right anti- semitism is being replaced by islamist and far left nutters.
In university, jewish students are called zio, and hatred of israel is openly displayed, even by the NUS who refuse to condemn isis, but give platforms to Israel haters.
posted on 13/11/16
comment by JSpurs (U1059)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by JSpurs (U1059)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
JSpurs
because they have been, historically, victimised and slaughtered, dispropotionately blamed for other states failures.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a seperste argument though.
In favour of a Jewish state, two arguments have been raised :
1. Jewish people are discrimated and attacked when living elsewhere
2. Jewish people dont want to feel like they are in a minority
The counter argument to 1 is that Jews live all round the world now and arent victimised or attacked any more elsewhere than they are in Israel
The counter argument to 2 is that noone else has their own state so as not to feel like they are in a minority, so so should Jewosh people.
The truth of the matter, imo, is that there is no valid jsutification for the existence of a Jewish state, and certainly not at the expense of another people who were previously in posession of the land.
We take it for granted that the state is justified, because America and the countries and organisations that they control tell us that there is. They tell us that because American politicians want Jewish americans to vote for them.
It's a nonsense, imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of these points were covered in greater detail yesterday. Are you saying Israel should be dismantled?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess I am.
I see no jusitifcation for the existence in the 21st century of a country to promote and protect a particular religion to the exclusion of others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Many arabs and non jews live in Israel.
Not many, if any, jews or christians in several mostly muslim states.Saudi, Afghanistan, Pakistan, iraq, Syria, yemen,Iran etc etc.
Aftet petsecution and the final solution, no wonder jews sought a safe haven.
Arab neighbours and hamas try to wipe them out, hence hard and at times ectreme retaliation from israel.
posted on 13/11/16
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by JSpurs (U1059)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by JSpurs (U1059)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
JSpurs
because they have been, historically, victimised and slaughtered, dispropotionately blamed for other states failures.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a seperste argument though.
In favour of a Jewish state, two arguments have been raised :
1. Jewish people are discrimated and attacked when living elsewhere
2. Jewish people dont want to feel like they are in a minority
The counter argument to 1 is that Jews live all round the world now and arent victimised or attacked any more elsewhere than they are in Israel
The counter argument to 2 is that noone else has their own state so as not to feel like they are in a minority, so so should Jewosh people.
The truth of the matter, imo, is that there is no valid jsutification for the existence of a Jewish state, and certainly not at the expense of another people who were previously in posession of the land.
We take it for granted that the state is justified, because America and the countries and organisations that they control tell us that there is. They tell us that because American politicians want Jewish americans to vote for them.
It's a nonsense, imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of these points were covered in greater detail yesterday. Are you saying Israel should be dismantled?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess I am.
I see no jusitifcation for the existence in the 21st century of a country to promote and protect a particular religion to the exclusion of others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you would also be against Palestine being a country?
Most of the ME in fact.
Or is it just the nasty Jews who control America like a puppet?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All borders are man made really, unless we are an island....and even then, ulster says no, along with scots and welsh, who like a border😃
posted on 13/11/16
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 23 hours, 54 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 2 minutes ago
Counting that's different French and Dutch people are largely white and Christian so taking their land would be wrong.
Look for a close to 3000 year old claim on some land owned by some Muslims instead and give them that land, if they fight back then they deserve all the punishment they get...
I really don't get it either, I think you have to start with the position that Israel is in the right and people who oppose them are in the wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The area has had many peoples living there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So has London...
Think you might get some fighting if you had a foreign people try to kick the locals out and take it for themselves regardless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmmmm, white flight since the seventies😉
Sizzle admits whites were pushed out of London.Not only by landlord prices and developers.
posted on 13/11/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/11/16
Free Israel, Ulster, Uk and Usa😁
posted on 13/11/16
Sizzle.
You were delighted a white jewish bloke did not win the mayoral contest, but if the tory was a muslim, and the labour candidate was a jew , which intolerance would you set aside to pick a London mayor?
posted on 13/11/16
comment by thebluebellsareblue (U9292)
posted 34 minutes ago
Evening Hec.
I saw a programme by Adrian Chiles on marsailles, and a school where most kids were muslim and the jewish pupils were afraid to say they were jews
Jews are leaving Paris after attacks on them, similar to London and brussels.
Jewish graves were attacked in Belfast after Celtic played the Israeli team, so far right anti- semitism is being replaced by islamist and far left nutters.
In university, jewish students are called zio, and hatred of israel is openly displayed, even by the NUS who refuse to condemn isis, but give platforms to Israel haters.
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Hello tbab
In Bristol bacon sandwiches were thrown at the mosque, pupils are called terrorists, headscarves are being pulled off of heads and abuse hauled on buses and trams.
Haters are going to hate.
I personally don't have an issue with the state of Isreal, but as I said above the land grab of palestinian land, the disproportionate and collective punishment metered out to the non militant men women and children the palestinians shouldn't be above criticism and condemnation.
That's not a lefty opinion that's just normal, what happened to the Jews historically should not be a bar on what they're doing now.
posted on 13/11/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/11/16
Sizzle
Not sure if you know, but aul timer Sandy is taking a break from ja, and he gave you a shout.
Chelsea fan in peace.
posted on 13/11/16
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsareblue (U9292)
posted 34 minutes ago
Evening Hec.
I saw a programme by Adrian Chiles on marsailles, and a school where most kids were muslim and the jewish pupils were afraid to say they were jews
Jews are leaving Paris after attacks on them, similar to London and brussels.
Jewish graves were attacked in Belfast after Celtic played the Israeli team, so far right anti- semitism is being replaced by islamist and far left nutters.
In university, jewish students are called zio, and hatred of israel is openly displayed, even by the NUS who refuse to condemn isis, but give platforms to Israel haters.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello tbab
In Bristol bacon sandwiches were thrown at the mosque, pupils are called terrorists, headscarves are being pulled off of heads and abuse hauled on buses and trams.
Haters are going to hate.
I personally don't have an issue with the state of Isreal, but as I said above the land grab of palestinian land, the disproportionate and collective punishment metered out to the non militant men women and children the palestinians shouldn't be above criticism and condemnation.
That's not a lefty opinion that's just normal, what happened to the Jews historically should not be a bar on what they're doing now.
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Sorry hec, I was not trying to downplay racist attacks on muslim folk, but I felt the attacks on jews in Euroe were being dismissed, to an extent
Pwicks in belfast have left pig heads at the south belfast islamic centre, and the synagogue in north belfast....racist skumbags all.
In some loyalist areas there are anti-mmuslim acts hete, but loyalists are also supporting muslim and east european newcomers, and I try to do a wee bit to get loyalists to stop such racist abuse.
I also think Israel and Palestine should exist side by side, with no violence.
Hamas ned to wise up and the Idf need to be proportionate.
There are attacks on christian churches in israel, by hardline jewish groups, so I am not saying they are angels.
None of us are.
posted on 13/11/16
Personally I think Israel and Palestine should both exist.
Israel does wrong, but have historically had wrongs done to them. They are a product of their environment.
The Palestine cause does not help itself all the time they have Hamas in government - an organisation that's covenant calls for extermination of Jews and obliteration of Israel. This too is a product of their environment.
The former fans the latter, which in turn fans the former. The cycle continues.
posted on 13/11/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/11/16
Sizzle
When people think they have no future they do things no normal person would do, what right minded person thinks it an aspiration to blow themselves and their enemy up?
It's catch-22 in that conflict, no amount of violence is going to solve it but as tbab will probably testify too, a solution however imperfect and painful has to be preferable to what's happening now, its only my opinion but its the Isrealis that are going to take the bigger pain.
Militarily vastly superior they are the ones that are going to have to give an inch. The others are going to have to swallow their pride, accept that what's lost is lost and gone forever (Phil Coulter) and they're both going to have to become neighbours.
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