comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Wessie Road (U10652)
posted 10 minutes ago
between the coach and the system, I don't think there will be any radical upturn in overall defensive effectiveness.
=======================================================
A number of different points have been made in rebuttal of this, including the one you are replying to about the defensive record at home, but all you’ve done here is ignore all the points, and repeat your original assertion.
You did originally support your view by arguing that defences are under more pressure when their team spends most of its time in the opposition’s half.....a slightly eccentric point, but at least an answer.
But then we moved on from that, and you still haven’t answered why you seem to think our attacking style is part of the problem when most of the goals we concede are when everybody is back, nor why a systemic failure doesn’t appear to be in evidence when we’re at home.
It’s not really how debating works, Brian.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Debating is where one or more parties discuss a topic or topics, typically with differing points of view. I've offered my views and reasons, and you have offered yours, so that's exactly how debating works. It's also rare in debate for one party to alter their view to align with the other, which is also the case here.
As for the flow of this thread, my point remains that I believe Van Dijk will not radically improve Liverpool, and Ive not seen anything substantive to persuade me otherwise. Your desire to offer a reductive view which isnt tremendously convincing. I'll ask you a question though - why do previously reliable and competent defenders seem to regularly fall to pieces playing for Liverpool? What, for example, has happened to the previously (at Southampton) impressive Lovren? Why does he look so bad now when previously Liverpool were prepared to throw piles of cash at Southampton to sign him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You still haven't provided a decent explanation though.
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 7 minutes ago
Ah, so you are one of them who only like stats that help you.
Got ya.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not at all, but I believe stats can be misleading, inconsistent, incomplete and/or misrepresentative, so I consider them usually to be part or an argument rather than the sole basis of one. Context permitting. Do you think you have the best defence in the country (at home)? If so, why is VVD needed?
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Wessie Road (U10652)
posted 10 minutes ago
between the coach and the system, I don't think there will be any radical upturn in overall defensive effectiveness.
=======================================================
A number of different points have been made in rebuttal of this, including the one you are replying to about the defensive record at home, but all you’ve done here is ignore all the points, and repeat your original assertion.
You did originally support your view by arguing that defences are under more pressure when their team spends most of its time in the opposition’s half.....a slightly eccentric point, but at least an answer.
But then we moved on from that, and you still haven’t answered why you seem to think our attacking style is part of the problem when most of the goals we concede are when everybody is back, nor why a systemic failure doesn’t appear to be in evidence when we’re at home.
It’s not really how debating works, Brian.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Debating is where one or more parties discuss a topic or topics, typically with differing points of view. I've offered my views and reasons, and you have offered yours, so that's exactly how debating works. It's also rare in debate for one party to alter their view to align with the other, which is also the case here.
As for the flow of this thread, my point remains that I believe Van Dijk will not radically improve Liverpool, and Ive not seen anything substantive to persuade me otherwise. Your desire to offer a reductive view which isnt tremendously convincing. I'll ask you a question though - why do previously reliable and competent defenders seem to regularly fall to pieces playing for Liverpool? What, for example, has happened to the previously (at Southampton) impressive Lovren? Why does he look so bad now when previously Liverpool were prepared to throw piles of cash at Southampton to sign him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You still haven't provided a decent explanation though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Explanation for what exactly? Ive explained my position, why are you unable to account for the demise of Lovren?
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 7 minutes ago
Ah, so you are one of them who only like stats that help you.
Got ya.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not at all, but I believe stats can be misleading, inconsistent, incomplete and/or misrepresentative, so I consider them usually to be part or an argument rather than the sole basis of one. Context permitting. Do you think you have the best defence in the country (at home)? If so, why is VVD needed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have to play away games as well unfortunately.
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Wessie Road (U10652)
posted 10 minutes ago
between the coach and the system, I don't think there will be any radical upturn in overall defensive effectiveness.
=======================================================
A number of different points have been made in rebuttal of this, including the one you are replying to about the defensive record at home, but all you’ve done here is ignore all the points, and repeat your original assertion.
You did originally support your view by arguing that defences are under more pressure when their team spends most of its time in the opposition’s half.....a slightly eccentric point, but at least an answer.
But then we moved on from that, and you still haven’t answered why you seem to think our attacking style is part of the problem when most of the goals we concede are when everybody is back, nor why a systemic failure doesn’t appear to be in evidence when we’re at home.
It’s not really how debating works, Brian.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Debating is where one or more parties discuss a topic or topics, typically with differing points of view. I've offered my views and reasons, and you have offered yours, so that's exactly how debating works. It's also rare in debate for one party to alter their view to align with the other, which is also the case here.
As for the flow of this thread, my point remains that I believe Van Dijk will not radically improve Liverpool, and Ive not seen anything substantive to persuade me otherwise. Your desire to offer a reductive view which isnt tremendously convincing. I'll ask you a question though - why do previously reliable and competent defenders seem to regularly fall to pieces playing for Liverpool? What, for example, has happened to the previously (at Southampton) impressive Lovren? Why does he look so bad now when previously Liverpool were prepared to throw piles of cash at Southampton to sign him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You still haven't provided a decent explanation though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Explanation for what exactly? Ive explained my position, why are you unable to account for the demise of Lovren?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
An explanation for why the goals we concede are supposedly due to the system we play, despite plenty of evidence against it.
There are several factors related to Lovren as an individual.
Firstly, he hadn’t been a consistent defender before we signed him. He was erratic at Lyon. He did appear to have matured at Saints which is why our scouts/recruitment were obviously convinced to go for him, but sadly it appears to have been an error.
A factor in him appearing more consistent for Southampton could well have been having Wanyama and Schneiderlin in front of him. A defensive shield that we do not offer. Indeed, Spurs have certainly suffered defensively this season without Wanyama available through injury.
Thirdly, maybe Liverpool are just too big for him. He wouldn’t be the first player to seemingly play very well elsewhere but unable to replicate or improve that form at a bigger club.
Finally, is the argument that Lovren hasn’t been as bad for Liverpool as has been made out. He has had fairly long periods of consistent performance. Unfortunately these have been interspersed with horrific individual errors, which have meant that any goodwill he gains from 20 good games quickly evaporates when he drops a game changing clanger. Moreno suffered the same fate this season when being our most consistent player until Sevilla when he collapsed individually and directly affected the result.
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 7 minutes ago
Ah, so you are one of them who only like stats that help you.
Got ya.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not at all, but I believe stats can be misleading, inconsistent, incomplete and/or misrepresentative, so I consider them usually to be part or an argument rather than the sole basis of one. Context permitting. Do you think you have the best defence in the country (at home)? If so, why is VVD needed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because clearly away from home we have been unable to replicate how well we defend at Home.
Probably partly down to a lack of leadership. Playing at home will always be easier for most players, and when things get tough you have a home crowd to spur you on. Away from home you need a bit more steel and can’t rely on a big crowd to lift you. VVD is undoubtedly a leader. Everyone who has been asked who managed or played with him says so, as did his status as Southampton Captain. That’s ignoring his dominant aerial presence that has seen him win more aerial duels than anyone since he came to England.
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Wessie Road (U10652)
posted 10 minutes ago
between the coach and the system, I don't think there will be any radical upturn in overall defensive effectiveness.
=======================================================
A number of different points have been made in rebuttal of this, including the one you are replying to about the defensive record at home, but all you’ve done here is ignore all the points, and repeat your original assertion.
You did originally support your view by arguing that defences are under more pressure when their team spends most of its time in the opposition’s half.....a slightly eccentric point, but at least an answer.
But then we moved on from that, and you still haven’t answered why you seem to think our attacking style is part of the problem when most of the goals we concede are when everybody is back, nor why a systemic failure doesn’t appear to be in evidence when we’re at home.
It’s not really how debating works, Brian.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Debating is where one or more parties discuss a topic or topics, typically with differing points of view. I've offered my views and reasons, and you have offered yours, so that's exactly how debating works. It's also rare in debate for one party to alter their view to align with the other, which is also the case here.
As for the flow of this thread, my point remains that I believe Van Dijk will not radically improve Liverpool, and Ive not seen anything substantive to persuade me otherwise. Your desire to offer a reductive view which isnt tremendously convincing. I'll ask you a question though - why do previously reliable and competent defenders seem to regularly fall to pieces playing for Liverpool? What, for example, has happened to the previously (at Southampton) impressive Lovren? Why does he look so bad now when previously Liverpool were prepared to throw piles of cash at Southampton to sign him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You still haven't provided a decent explanation though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Explanation for what exactly? Ive explained my position, why are you unable to account for the demise of Lovren?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t disagree that Lovren has faltered, which I find slightly strange is that you seem to think this is a problem with Liverpool rather than a jump in expectation.
Both Neville and Carragher agreed on sky last season that you could tell within a couple of training sessions whether a new player would cut it at Utd or Liverpool. It’s not an ability thing, it’s a mentality. It sets players apart.
There so many examples of players going to a big club with big expectations and making stupid mistakes - not being able to handle the pressure.
Lovren is just one of many. It happened before Klopp and his style of football and it’ll happen many times after he leaves.
OP - Virgil Van Dijk will improve Liverpool significantly in the defensive sphere of their play & also in the attacking third.
He's a tough, ball-playing centre-half with vision. Excellent in the air, strong on & off the ball.
Exciting times ahead.
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 37 minutes ago
It’s not that you maybe wrong, you just are wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite, as until he's played, nothing can be shown as fact. As such, your suggestion that you can speak definitely is incorrect and unsupported, so literally speaking, it is currently you who is wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you are wrong because you can’t provide any argument as to why our system is so good defensively, best home defence in the country.
You are providing an opinion which is wrong!
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 24 minutes ago
There are several factors related to Lovren as an individual.
Firstly, he hadn’t been a consistent defender before we signed him. He was erratic at Lyon. He did appear to have matured at Saints which is why our scouts/recruitment were obviously convinced to go for him, but sadly it appears to have been an error.
A factor in him appearing more consistent for Southampton could well have been having Wanyama and Schneiderlin in front of him. A defensive shield that we do not offer. Indeed, Spurs have certainly suffered defensively this season without Wanyama available through injury.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good points and well reasoned. I removed the second half of your post to save space but essentially the last part of it which I kept points to a Southampton system which protected defenders in a way that Liverpool's does not. I think that is a significant observation, and one reason why VVD may not make as big an impact as some hope.
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 24 minutes ago
There are several factors related to Lovren as an individual.
Firstly, he hadn’t been a consistent defender before we signed him. He was erratic at Lyon. He did appear to have matured at Saints which is why our scouts/recruitment were obviously convinced to go for him, but sadly it appears to have been an error.
A factor in him appearing more consistent for Southampton could well have been having Wanyama and Schneiderlin in front of him. A defensive shield that we do not offer. Indeed, Spurs have certainly suffered defensively this season without Wanyama available through injury.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good points and well reasoned. I removed the second half of your post to save space but essentially the last part of it which I kept points to a Southampton system which protected defenders in a way that Liverpool's does not. I think that is a significant observation, and one reason why VVD may not make as big an impact as some hope.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Keita is coming in summer and will help with that. For now, a reduced amount of individual errors will still see an improvement.
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 37 minutes ago
It’s not that you maybe wrong, you just are wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite, as until he's played, nothing can be shown as fact. As such, your suggestion that you can speak definitely is incorrect and unsupported, so literally speaking, it is currently you who is wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you are wrong because you can’t provide any argument as to why our system is so good defensively, best home defence in the country.
You are providing an opinion which is wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't disprove a prediction until time has passed sufficiently to allow it to be either proven or disproven. In this case that has not yet happened, so you are literally and factually unable to conclude that I am wrong. If you can't understand this, you are wasting everybody's time.
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 24 minutes ago
There are several factors related to Lovren as an individual.
Firstly, he hadn’t been a consistent defender before we signed him. He was erratic at Lyon. He did appear to have matured at Saints which is why our scouts/recruitment were obviously convinced to go for him, but sadly it appears to have been an error.
A factor in him appearing more consistent for Southampton could well have been having Wanyama and Schneiderlin in front of him. A defensive shield that we do not offer. Indeed, Spurs have certainly suffered defensively this season without Wanyama available through injury.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good points and well reasoned. I removed the second half of your post to save space but essentially the last part of it which I kept points to a Southampton system which protected defenders in a way that Liverpool's does not. I think that is a significant observation, and one reason why VVD may not make as big an impact as some hope.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Keita is coming in summer and will help with that. For now, a reduced amount of individual errors will still see an improvement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can't disagree with any of that.
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 37 minutes ago
It’s not that you maybe wrong, you just are wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite, as until he's played, nothing can be shown as fact. As such, your suggestion that you can speak definitely is incorrect and unsupported, so literally speaking, it is currently you who is wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you are wrong because you can’t provide any argument as to why our system is so good defensively, best home defence in the country.
You are providing an opinion which is wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, if you want to use only statistics to support your claim, you cannot definitely say the defence is the best home defence in the country until everyone has played everyone at home, otherwise you are not comparing like for like, and so the comparison doesn't hold water.
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 37 minutes ago
It’s not that you maybe wrong, you just are wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite, as until he's played, nothing can be shown as fact. As such, your suggestion that you can speak definitely is incorrect and unsupported, so literally speaking, it is currently you who is wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you are wrong because you can’t provide any argument as to why our system is so good defensively, best home defence in the country.
You are providing an opinion which is wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't disprove a prediction until time has passed sufficiently to allow it to be either proven or disproven. In this case that has not yet happened, so you are literally and factually unable to conclude that I am wrong. If you can't understand this, you are wasting everybody's time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fully understand it but as in you are providing an opinion as to why he won’t improve us because it’s the system that is at fault and not the players.
That’s where your wrong!
You’ve been provided with evidence as to the fact that the majority of the goals we concede is down to mistakes mate by individuals and not the system.
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 24 minutes ago
There are several factors related to Lovren as an individual.
Firstly, he hadn’t been a consistent defender before we signed him. He was erratic at Lyon. He did appear to have matured at Saints which is why our scouts/recruitment were obviously convinced to go for him, but sadly it appears to have been an error.
A factor in him appearing more consistent for Southampton could well have been having Wanyama and Schneiderlin in front of him. A defensive shield that we do not offer. Indeed, Spurs have certainly suffered defensively this season without Wanyama available through injury.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good points and well reasoned. I removed the second half of your post to save space but essentially the last part of it which I kept points to a Southampton system which protected defenders in a way that Liverpool's does not. I think that is a significant observation, and one reason why VVD may not make as big an impact as some hope.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But VVD hasn’t had Wanyama or Schneiderlin in front of him at Saints.
You aren’t comparing like for like.
Nobody is looking at paying big money for Romeu or whoever else Saints have had in midfield since. It didn’t stop VVD being seen as one of the best defenders in the league before his injury though.
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 37 minutes ago
It’s not that you maybe wrong, you just are wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite, as until he's played, nothing can be shown as fact. As such, your suggestion that you can speak definitely is incorrect and unsupported, so literally speaking, it is currently you who is wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you are wrong because you can’t provide any argument as to why our system is so good defensively, best home defence in the country.
You are providing an opinion which is wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, if you want to use only statistics to support your claim, you cannot definitely say the defence is the best home defence in the country until everyone has played everyone at home, otherwise you are not comparing like for like, and so the comparison doesn't hold water.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can say it’s the best to date, which it is.
You haven’t been able to offer any explanation at all as to why a flawed system would work so well at home.
All you can offer is a failure to discredit the evidence.
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 37 minutes ago
It’s not that you maybe wrong, you just are wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite, as until he's played, nothing can be shown as fact. As such, your suggestion that you can speak definitely is incorrect and unsupported, so literally speaking, it is currently you who is wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you are wrong because you can’t provide any argument as to why our system is so good defensively, best home defence in the country.
You are providing an opinion which is wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't disprove a prediction until time has passed sufficiently to allow it to be either proven or disproven. In this case that has not yet happened, so you are literally and factually unable to conclude that I am wrong. If you can't understand this, you are wasting everybody's time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fully understand it but as in you are providing an opinion as to why he won’t improve us because it’s the system that is at fault and not the players.
That’s where your wrong!
You’ve been provided with evidence as to the fact that the majority of the goals we concede is down to mistakes mate by individuals and not the system.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say he wouldn't improve the team, I said he wouldn't improve the team as much as some expect. At least try to understand what you are responding to.
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 24 minutes ago
There are several factors related to Lovren as an individual.
Firstly, he hadn’t been a consistent defender before we signed him. He was erratic at Lyon. He did appear to have matured at Saints which is why our scouts/recruitment were obviously convinced to go for him, but sadly it appears to have been an error.
A factor in him appearing more consistent for Southampton could well have been having Wanyama and Schneiderlin in front of him. A defensive shield that we do not offer. Indeed, Spurs have certainly suffered defensively this season without Wanyama available through injury.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good points and well reasoned. I removed the second half of your post to save space but essentially the last part of it which I kept points to a Southampton system which protected defenders in a way that Liverpool's does not. I think that is a significant observation, and one reason why VVD may not make as big an impact as some hope.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But VVD hasn’t had Wanyama or Schneiderlin in front of him at Saints.
You aren’t comparing like for like.
Nobody is looking at paying big money for Romeu or whoever else Saints have had in midfield since. It didn’t stop VVD being seen as one of the best defenders in the league before his injury though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not comparing like for like in terms of players, but certainly in terms of system
Certainly or speculatively?
Saints have had about 4 different managers between Lovren and VVD.
If they have all played the same way then I would be shocked.
You are on the ropes and are reaching, to be honest.
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 37 minutes ago
It’s not that you maybe wrong, you just are wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite, as until he's played, nothing can be shown as fact. As such, your suggestion that you can speak definitely is incorrect and unsupported, so literally speaking, it is currently you who is wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you are wrong because you can’t provide any argument as to why our system is so good defensively, best home defence in the country.
You are providing an opinion which is wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, if you want to use only statistics to support your claim, you cannot definitely say the defence is the best home defence in the country until everyone has played everyone at home, otherwise you are not comparing like for like, and so the comparison doesn't hold water.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can say it’s the best to date, which it is.
You haven’t been able to offer any explanation at all as to why a flawed system would work so well at home.
All you can offer is a failure to discredit the evidence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say that if the system wasnt flawed, it would work better away from home.
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 2 minutes ago
Certainly or speculatively?
Saints have had about 4 different managers between Lovren and VVD.
If they have all played the same way then I would be shocked.
You are on the ropes and are reaching, to be honest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't sound to me like you know the answer, so you aren't really in a position to offer comment.
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 37 minutes ago
It’s not that you maybe wrong, you just are wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite, as until he's played, nothing can be shown as fact. As such, your suggestion that you can speak definitely is incorrect and unsupported, so literally speaking, it is currently you who is wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you are wrong because you can’t provide any argument as to why our system is so good defensively, best home defence in the country.
You are providing an opinion which is wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, if you want to use only statistics to support your claim, you cannot definitely say the defence is the best home defence in the country until everyone has played everyone at home, otherwise you are not comparing like for like, and so the comparison doesn't hold water.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can say it’s the best to date, which it is.
You haven’t been able to offer any explanation at all as to why a flawed system would work so well at home.
All you can offer is a failure to discredit the evidence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say that if the system wasnt flawed, it would work better away from home.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have made a lot of individual mistakes away from home that cannot be blamed on the system. Look at the Watford and Spurs games for perfect examples.
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 37 minutes ago
It’s not that you maybe wrong, you just are wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite, as until he's played, nothing can be shown as fact. As such, your suggestion that you can speak definitely is incorrect and unsupported, so literally speaking, it is currently you who is wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you are wrong because you can’t provide any argument as to why our system is so good defensively, best home defence in the country.
You are providing an opinion which is wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, if you want to use only statistics to support your claim, you cannot definitely say the defence is the best home defence in the country until everyone has played everyone at home, otherwise you are not comparing like for like, and so the comparison doesn't hold water.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can say it’s the best to date, which it is.
You haven’t been able to offer any explanation at all as to why a flawed system would work so well at home.
All you can offer is a failure to discredit the evidence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say that if the system wasnt flawed, it would work better away from home.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have made a lot of individual mistakes away from home that cannot be blamed on the system. Look at the Watford and Spurs games for perfect examples.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Players can make mistakes for a multitude of reasons, and one of those can be that they feel the cumulative effects of a system which they have to work exceptionally hard within to keep the team afloat. Eventually something gives. Or as you say, sometimes players are just bad.
Sign in if you want to comment
Van Dijk won't improve Liverpool significan
Page 3 of 68
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
posted on 29/12/17
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Wessie Road (U10652)
posted 10 minutes ago
between the coach and the system, I don't think there will be any radical upturn in overall defensive effectiveness.
=======================================================
A number of different points have been made in rebuttal of this, including the one you are replying to about the defensive record at home, but all you’ve done here is ignore all the points, and repeat your original assertion.
You did originally support your view by arguing that defences are under more pressure when their team spends most of its time in the opposition’s half.....a slightly eccentric point, but at least an answer.
But then we moved on from that, and you still haven’t answered why you seem to think our attacking style is part of the problem when most of the goals we concede are when everybody is back, nor why a systemic failure doesn’t appear to be in evidence when we’re at home.
It’s not really how debating works, Brian.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Debating is where one or more parties discuss a topic or topics, typically with differing points of view. I've offered my views and reasons, and you have offered yours, so that's exactly how debating works. It's also rare in debate for one party to alter their view to align with the other, which is also the case here.
As for the flow of this thread, my point remains that I believe Van Dijk will not radically improve Liverpool, and Ive not seen anything substantive to persuade me otherwise. Your desire to offer a reductive view which isnt tremendously convincing. I'll ask you a question though - why do previously reliable and competent defenders seem to regularly fall to pieces playing for Liverpool? What, for example, has happened to the previously (at Southampton) impressive Lovren? Why does he look so bad now when previously Liverpool were prepared to throw piles of cash at Southampton to sign him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You still haven't provided a decent explanation though.
posted on 29/12/17
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 7 minutes ago
Ah, so you are one of them who only like stats that help you.
Got ya.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not at all, but I believe stats can be misleading, inconsistent, incomplete and/or misrepresentative, so I consider them usually to be part or an argument rather than the sole basis of one. Context permitting. Do you think you have the best defence in the country (at home)? If so, why is VVD needed?
posted on 29/12/17
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Wessie Road (U10652)
posted 10 minutes ago
between the coach and the system, I don't think there will be any radical upturn in overall defensive effectiveness.
=======================================================
A number of different points have been made in rebuttal of this, including the one you are replying to about the defensive record at home, but all you’ve done here is ignore all the points, and repeat your original assertion.
You did originally support your view by arguing that defences are under more pressure when their team spends most of its time in the opposition’s half.....a slightly eccentric point, but at least an answer.
But then we moved on from that, and you still haven’t answered why you seem to think our attacking style is part of the problem when most of the goals we concede are when everybody is back, nor why a systemic failure doesn’t appear to be in evidence when we’re at home.
It’s not really how debating works, Brian.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Debating is where one or more parties discuss a topic or topics, typically with differing points of view. I've offered my views and reasons, and you have offered yours, so that's exactly how debating works. It's also rare in debate for one party to alter their view to align with the other, which is also the case here.
As for the flow of this thread, my point remains that I believe Van Dijk will not radically improve Liverpool, and Ive not seen anything substantive to persuade me otherwise. Your desire to offer a reductive view which isnt tremendously convincing. I'll ask you a question though - why do previously reliable and competent defenders seem to regularly fall to pieces playing for Liverpool? What, for example, has happened to the previously (at Southampton) impressive Lovren? Why does he look so bad now when previously Liverpool were prepared to throw piles of cash at Southampton to sign him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You still haven't provided a decent explanation though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Explanation for what exactly? Ive explained my position, why are you unable to account for the demise of Lovren?
posted on 29/12/17
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 7 minutes ago
Ah, so you are one of them who only like stats that help you.
Got ya.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not at all, but I believe stats can be misleading, inconsistent, incomplete and/or misrepresentative, so I consider them usually to be part or an argument rather than the sole basis of one. Context permitting. Do you think you have the best defence in the country (at home)? If so, why is VVD needed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have to play away games as well unfortunately.
posted on 29/12/17
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Wessie Road (U10652)
posted 10 minutes ago
between the coach and the system, I don't think there will be any radical upturn in overall defensive effectiveness.
=======================================================
A number of different points have been made in rebuttal of this, including the one you are replying to about the defensive record at home, but all you’ve done here is ignore all the points, and repeat your original assertion.
You did originally support your view by arguing that defences are under more pressure when their team spends most of its time in the opposition’s half.....a slightly eccentric point, but at least an answer.
But then we moved on from that, and you still haven’t answered why you seem to think our attacking style is part of the problem when most of the goals we concede are when everybody is back, nor why a systemic failure doesn’t appear to be in evidence when we’re at home.
It’s not really how debating works, Brian.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Debating is where one or more parties discuss a topic or topics, typically with differing points of view. I've offered my views and reasons, and you have offered yours, so that's exactly how debating works. It's also rare in debate for one party to alter their view to align with the other, which is also the case here.
As for the flow of this thread, my point remains that I believe Van Dijk will not radically improve Liverpool, and Ive not seen anything substantive to persuade me otherwise. Your desire to offer a reductive view which isnt tremendously convincing. I'll ask you a question though - why do previously reliable and competent defenders seem to regularly fall to pieces playing for Liverpool? What, for example, has happened to the previously (at Southampton) impressive Lovren? Why does he look so bad now when previously Liverpool were prepared to throw piles of cash at Southampton to sign him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You still haven't provided a decent explanation though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Explanation for what exactly? Ive explained my position, why are you unable to account for the demise of Lovren?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
An explanation for why the goals we concede are supposedly due to the system we play, despite plenty of evidence against it.
posted on 29/12/17
There are several factors related to Lovren as an individual.
Firstly, he hadn’t been a consistent defender before we signed him. He was erratic at Lyon. He did appear to have matured at Saints which is why our scouts/recruitment were obviously convinced to go for him, but sadly it appears to have been an error.
A factor in him appearing more consistent for Southampton could well have been having Wanyama and Schneiderlin in front of him. A defensive shield that we do not offer. Indeed, Spurs have certainly suffered defensively this season without Wanyama available through injury.
Thirdly, maybe Liverpool are just too big for him. He wouldn’t be the first player to seemingly play very well elsewhere but unable to replicate or improve that form at a bigger club.
Finally, is the argument that Lovren hasn’t been as bad for Liverpool as has been made out. He has had fairly long periods of consistent performance. Unfortunately these have been interspersed with horrific individual errors, which have meant that any goodwill he gains from 20 good games quickly evaporates when he drops a game changing clanger. Moreno suffered the same fate this season when being our most consistent player until Sevilla when he collapsed individually and directly affected the result.
posted on 29/12/17
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 7 minutes ago
Ah, so you are one of them who only like stats that help you.
Got ya.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not at all, but I believe stats can be misleading, inconsistent, incomplete and/or misrepresentative, so I consider them usually to be part or an argument rather than the sole basis of one. Context permitting. Do you think you have the best defence in the country (at home)? If so, why is VVD needed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because clearly away from home we have been unable to replicate how well we defend at Home.
Probably partly down to a lack of leadership. Playing at home will always be easier for most players, and when things get tough you have a home crowd to spur you on. Away from home you need a bit more steel and can’t rely on a big crowd to lift you. VVD is undoubtedly a leader. Everyone who has been asked who managed or played with him says so, as did his status as Southampton Captain. That’s ignoring his dominant aerial presence that has seen him win more aerial duels than anyone since he came to England.
posted on 29/12/17
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Wessie Road (U10652)
posted 10 minutes ago
between the coach and the system, I don't think there will be any radical upturn in overall defensive effectiveness.
=======================================================
A number of different points have been made in rebuttal of this, including the one you are replying to about the defensive record at home, but all you’ve done here is ignore all the points, and repeat your original assertion.
You did originally support your view by arguing that defences are under more pressure when their team spends most of its time in the opposition’s half.....a slightly eccentric point, but at least an answer.
But then we moved on from that, and you still haven’t answered why you seem to think our attacking style is part of the problem when most of the goals we concede are when everybody is back, nor why a systemic failure doesn’t appear to be in evidence when we’re at home.
It’s not really how debating works, Brian.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Debating is where one or more parties discuss a topic or topics, typically with differing points of view. I've offered my views and reasons, and you have offered yours, so that's exactly how debating works. It's also rare in debate for one party to alter their view to align with the other, which is also the case here.
As for the flow of this thread, my point remains that I believe Van Dijk will not radically improve Liverpool, and Ive not seen anything substantive to persuade me otherwise. Your desire to offer a reductive view which isnt tremendously convincing. I'll ask you a question though - why do previously reliable and competent defenders seem to regularly fall to pieces playing for Liverpool? What, for example, has happened to the previously (at Southampton) impressive Lovren? Why does he look so bad now when previously Liverpool were prepared to throw piles of cash at Southampton to sign him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You still haven't provided a decent explanation though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Explanation for what exactly? Ive explained my position, why are you unable to account for the demise of Lovren?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t disagree that Lovren has faltered, which I find slightly strange is that you seem to think this is a problem with Liverpool rather than a jump in expectation.
Both Neville and Carragher agreed on sky last season that you could tell within a couple of training sessions whether a new player would cut it at Utd or Liverpool. It’s not an ability thing, it’s a mentality. It sets players apart.
There so many examples of players going to a big club with big expectations and making stupid mistakes - not being able to handle the pressure.
Lovren is just one of many. It happened before Klopp and his style of football and it’ll happen many times after he leaves.
posted on 29/12/17
OP - Virgil Van Dijk will improve Liverpool significantly in the defensive sphere of their play & also in the attacking third.
He's a tough, ball-playing centre-half with vision. Excellent in the air, strong on & off the ball.
Exciting times ahead.
posted on 29/12/17
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 37 minutes ago
It’s not that you maybe wrong, you just are wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite, as until he's played, nothing can be shown as fact. As such, your suggestion that you can speak definitely is incorrect and unsupported, so literally speaking, it is currently you who is wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you are wrong because you can’t provide any argument as to why our system is so good defensively, best home defence in the country.
You are providing an opinion which is wrong!
posted on 29/12/17
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 24 minutes ago
There are several factors related to Lovren as an individual.
Firstly, he hadn’t been a consistent defender before we signed him. He was erratic at Lyon. He did appear to have matured at Saints which is why our scouts/recruitment were obviously convinced to go for him, but sadly it appears to have been an error.
A factor in him appearing more consistent for Southampton could well have been having Wanyama and Schneiderlin in front of him. A defensive shield that we do not offer. Indeed, Spurs have certainly suffered defensively this season without Wanyama available through injury.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good points and well reasoned. I removed the second half of your post to save space but essentially the last part of it which I kept points to a Southampton system which protected defenders in a way that Liverpool's does not. I think that is a significant observation, and one reason why VVD may not make as big an impact as some hope.
posted on 29/12/17
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 24 minutes ago
There are several factors related to Lovren as an individual.
Firstly, he hadn’t been a consistent defender before we signed him. He was erratic at Lyon. He did appear to have matured at Saints which is why our scouts/recruitment were obviously convinced to go for him, but sadly it appears to have been an error.
A factor in him appearing more consistent for Southampton could well have been having Wanyama and Schneiderlin in front of him. A defensive shield that we do not offer. Indeed, Spurs have certainly suffered defensively this season without Wanyama available through injury.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good points and well reasoned. I removed the second half of your post to save space but essentially the last part of it which I kept points to a Southampton system which protected defenders in a way that Liverpool's does not. I think that is a significant observation, and one reason why VVD may not make as big an impact as some hope.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Keita is coming in summer and will help with that. For now, a reduced amount of individual errors will still see an improvement.
posted on 29/12/17
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 37 minutes ago
It’s not that you maybe wrong, you just are wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite, as until he's played, nothing can be shown as fact. As such, your suggestion that you can speak definitely is incorrect and unsupported, so literally speaking, it is currently you who is wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you are wrong because you can’t provide any argument as to why our system is so good defensively, best home defence in the country.
You are providing an opinion which is wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't disprove a prediction until time has passed sufficiently to allow it to be either proven or disproven. In this case that has not yet happened, so you are literally and factually unable to conclude that I am wrong. If you can't understand this, you are wasting everybody's time.
posted on 29/12/17
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 24 minutes ago
There are several factors related to Lovren as an individual.
Firstly, he hadn’t been a consistent defender before we signed him. He was erratic at Lyon. He did appear to have matured at Saints which is why our scouts/recruitment were obviously convinced to go for him, but sadly it appears to have been an error.
A factor in him appearing more consistent for Southampton could well have been having Wanyama and Schneiderlin in front of him. A defensive shield that we do not offer. Indeed, Spurs have certainly suffered defensively this season without Wanyama available through injury.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good points and well reasoned. I removed the second half of your post to save space but essentially the last part of it which I kept points to a Southampton system which protected defenders in a way that Liverpool's does not. I think that is a significant observation, and one reason why VVD may not make as big an impact as some hope.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Keita is coming in summer and will help with that. For now, a reduced amount of individual errors will still see an improvement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can't disagree with any of that.
posted on 29/12/17
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 37 minutes ago
It’s not that you maybe wrong, you just are wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite, as until he's played, nothing can be shown as fact. As such, your suggestion that you can speak definitely is incorrect and unsupported, so literally speaking, it is currently you who is wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you are wrong because you can’t provide any argument as to why our system is so good defensively, best home defence in the country.
You are providing an opinion which is wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, if you want to use only statistics to support your claim, you cannot definitely say the defence is the best home defence in the country until everyone has played everyone at home, otherwise you are not comparing like for like, and so the comparison doesn't hold water.
posted on 29/12/17
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 37 minutes ago
It’s not that you maybe wrong, you just are wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite, as until he's played, nothing can be shown as fact. As such, your suggestion that you can speak definitely is incorrect and unsupported, so literally speaking, it is currently you who is wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you are wrong because you can’t provide any argument as to why our system is so good defensively, best home defence in the country.
You are providing an opinion which is wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't disprove a prediction until time has passed sufficiently to allow it to be either proven or disproven. In this case that has not yet happened, so you are literally and factually unable to conclude that I am wrong. If you can't understand this, you are wasting everybody's time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fully understand it but as in you are providing an opinion as to why he won’t improve us because it’s the system that is at fault and not the players.
That’s where your wrong!
You’ve been provided with evidence as to the fact that the majority of the goals we concede is down to mistakes mate by individuals and not the system.
posted on 29/12/17
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 24 minutes ago
There are several factors related to Lovren as an individual.
Firstly, he hadn’t been a consistent defender before we signed him. He was erratic at Lyon. He did appear to have matured at Saints which is why our scouts/recruitment were obviously convinced to go for him, but sadly it appears to have been an error.
A factor in him appearing more consistent for Southampton could well have been having Wanyama and Schneiderlin in front of him. A defensive shield that we do not offer. Indeed, Spurs have certainly suffered defensively this season without Wanyama available through injury.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good points and well reasoned. I removed the second half of your post to save space but essentially the last part of it which I kept points to a Southampton system which protected defenders in a way that Liverpool's does not. I think that is a significant observation, and one reason why VVD may not make as big an impact as some hope.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But VVD hasn’t had Wanyama or Schneiderlin in front of him at Saints.
You aren’t comparing like for like.
Nobody is looking at paying big money for Romeu or whoever else Saints have had in midfield since. It didn’t stop VVD being seen as one of the best defenders in the league before his injury though.
posted on 29/12/17
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 37 minutes ago
It’s not that you maybe wrong, you just are wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite, as until he's played, nothing can be shown as fact. As such, your suggestion that you can speak definitely is incorrect and unsupported, so literally speaking, it is currently you who is wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you are wrong because you can’t provide any argument as to why our system is so good defensively, best home defence in the country.
You are providing an opinion which is wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, if you want to use only statistics to support your claim, you cannot definitely say the defence is the best home defence in the country until everyone has played everyone at home, otherwise you are not comparing like for like, and so the comparison doesn't hold water.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can say it’s the best to date, which it is.
You haven’t been able to offer any explanation at all as to why a flawed system would work so well at home.
All you can offer is a failure to discredit the evidence.
posted on 29/12/17
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 37 minutes ago
It’s not that you maybe wrong, you just are wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite, as until he's played, nothing can be shown as fact. As such, your suggestion that you can speak definitely is incorrect and unsupported, so literally speaking, it is currently you who is wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you are wrong because you can’t provide any argument as to why our system is so good defensively, best home defence in the country.
You are providing an opinion which is wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't disprove a prediction until time has passed sufficiently to allow it to be either proven or disproven. In this case that has not yet happened, so you are literally and factually unable to conclude that I am wrong. If you can't understand this, you are wasting everybody's time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fully understand it but as in you are providing an opinion as to why he won’t improve us because it’s the system that is at fault and not the players.
That’s where your wrong!
You’ve been provided with evidence as to the fact that the majority of the goals we concede is down to mistakes mate by individuals and not the system.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say he wouldn't improve the team, I said he wouldn't improve the team as much as some expect. At least try to understand what you are responding to.
posted on 29/12/17
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 24 minutes ago
There are several factors related to Lovren as an individual.
Firstly, he hadn’t been a consistent defender before we signed him. He was erratic at Lyon. He did appear to have matured at Saints which is why our scouts/recruitment were obviously convinced to go for him, but sadly it appears to have been an error.
A factor in him appearing more consistent for Southampton could well have been having Wanyama and Schneiderlin in front of him. A defensive shield that we do not offer. Indeed, Spurs have certainly suffered defensively this season without Wanyama available through injury.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good points and well reasoned. I removed the second half of your post to save space but essentially the last part of it which I kept points to a Southampton system which protected defenders in a way that Liverpool's does not. I think that is a significant observation, and one reason why VVD may not make as big an impact as some hope.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But VVD hasn’t had Wanyama or Schneiderlin in front of him at Saints.
You aren’t comparing like for like.
Nobody is looking at paying big money for Romeu or whoever else Saints have had in midfield since. It didn’t stop VVD being seen as one of the best defenders in the league before his injury though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not comparing like for like in terms of players, but certainly in terms of system
posted on 29/12/17
Certainly or speculatively?
Saints have had about 4 different managers between Lovren and VVD.
If they have all played the same way then I would be shocked.
You are on the ropes and are reaching, to be honest.
posted on 29/12/17
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 37 minutes ago
It’s not that you maybe wrong, you just are wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite, as until he's played, nothing can be shown as fact. As such, your suggestion that you can speak definitely is incorrect and unsupported, so literally speaking, it is currently you who is wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you are wrong because you can’t provide any argument as to why our system is so good defensively, best home defence in the country.
You are providing an opinion which is wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, if you want to use only statistics to support your claim, you cannot definitely say the defence is the best home defence in the country until everyone has played everyone at home, otherwise you are not comparing like for like, and so the comparison doesn't hold water.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can say it’s the best to date, which it is.
You haven’t been able to offer any explanation at all as to why a flawed system would work so well at home.
All you can offer is a failure to discredit the evidence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say that if the system wasnt flawed, it would work better away from home.
posted on 29/12/17
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 2 minutes ago
Certainly or speculatively?
Saints have had about 4 different managers between Lovren and VVD.
If they have all played the same way then I would be shocked.
You are on the ropes and are reaching, to be honest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't sound to me like you know the answer, so you aren't really in a position to offer comment.
posted on 29/12/17
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 37 minutes ago
It’s not that you maybe wrong, you just are wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite, as until he's played, nothing can be shown as fact. As such, your suggestion that you can speak definitely is incorrect and unsupported, so literally speaking, it is currently you who is wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you are wrong because you can’t provide any argument as to why our system is so good defensively, best home defence in the country.
You are providing an opinion which is wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, if you want to use only statistics to support your claim, you cannot definitely say the defence is the best home defence in the country until everyone has played everyone at home, otherwise you are not comparing like for like, and so the comparison doesn't hold water.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can say it’s the best to date, which it is.
You haven’t been able to offer any explanation at all as to why a flawed system would work so well at home.
All you can offer is a failure to discredit the evidence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say that if the system wasnt flawed, it would work better away from home.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have made a lot of individual mistakes away from home that cannot be blamed on the system. Look at the Watford and Spurs games for perfect examples.
posted on 29/12/17
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by KLS. (U1695)
posted 37 minutes ago
It’s not that you maybe wrong, you just are wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite, as until he's played, nothing can be shown as fact. As such, your suggestion that you can speak definitely is incorrect and unsupported, so literally speaking, it is currently you who is wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you are wrong because you can’t provide any argument as to why our system is so good defensively, best home defence in the country.
You are providing an opinion which is wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, if you want to use only statistics to support your claim, you cannot definitely say the defence is the best home defence in the country until everyone has played everyone at home, otherwise you are not comparing like for like, and so the comparison doesn't hold water.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can say it’s the best to date, which it is.
You haven’t been able to offer any explanation at all as to why a flawed system would work so well at home.
All you can offer is a failure to discredit the evidence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say that if the system wasnt flawed, it would work better away from home.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have made a lot of individual mistakes away from home that cannot be blamed on the system. Look at the Watford and Spurs games for perfect examples.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Players can make mistakes for a multitude of reasons, and one of those can be that they feel the cumulative effects of a system which they have to work exceptionally hard within to keep the team afloat. Eventually something gives. Or as you say, sometimes players are just bad.
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