Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 4 minutes ago
As for the claim that the UK is institutionally racist - there is no evidence for this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is plenty of evidence, even this week it came out the Queen had some clause that they couldn't employ anyone of colour in the palace and they were exempt from discriminatory laws, the Steven Lawerence case, the government, every single comment section in every newspaper, the prison service, police force, mainstream media companies, big tech companies, finance sector, education sector..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No mate, because the report said UKs not institutionally racist, means its not institutionally racist!
comment by Just Shoot, now a Marxist (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 23 seconds ago
I read a comment earlier along the lines of "if a white player spoke out and said they were not going to take the knee like Zaha, how would you react". I.e. if Zaha is allowed to not take the knee without getting abuse for it, can a white player? If Zaha disagrees does that make him racist? Blah blah blah
My answer to this is that if a white player did the same as Zaha, i would have an issue with it, while with Zaha I don't. The reason is this: Zaha is part of the community who is affected by the racism and so if he decides that kneeling is not benefiting him/his people then that is his perogative to stop kneeling; he is not actively criticising the fact the others are kneeling or booing himself.
Now if a white player said the same thing, the issue is that they are not qualified to say the success/effectiveness of the kneeling regarding tackling racism. What they should be doing is supporting the general consensus of their black teammates (which is to kneel). Its akin to a man telling a woman about sexism
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That means you are the dictionary definition of a racist. Well done.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fantastic. I bet you are one of the people who wish white people can say the N word too "because black people can"
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 8 seconds ago
I read a comment earlier along the lines of "if a white player spoke out and said they were not going to take the knee like Zaha, how would you react". I.e. if Zaha is allowed to not take the knee without getting abuse for it, can a white player? If Zaha disagrees does that make him racist? Blah blah blah
My answer to this is that if a white player did the same as Zaha, i would have an issue with it, while with Zaha I don't. The reason is this: Zaha is part of the community who is affected by the racism and so if he decides that kneeling is not benefiting him/his people then that is his perogative to stop kneeling; he is not actively criticising the fact the others are kneeling or booing himself.
Now if a white player said the same thing, the issue is that they are not qualified to say the success/effectiveness of the kneeling regarding tackling racism. What they should be doing is supporting the general consensus of their black teammates (which is to kneel). Its akin to a man telling a woman about sexism
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t you think things like this lose any weight when they become contrived and not spontaneous?
A bit like the poppy wearing thing
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
People who defend the booing/boo are either:
Racist
Racially prejudiced
Or willfully naive, happy to defend racists due to conformation bias.
That's it.
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 4 minutes ago
As for the claim that the UK is institutionally racist - there is no evidence for this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is plenty of evidence, even this week it came out the Queen had some clause that they couldn't employ anyone of colour in the palace and they were exempt from discriminatory laws, the Steven Lawerence case, the government, every single comment section in every newspaper, the prison service, police force, mainstream media companies, big tech companies, finance sector, education sector..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's go through each one. The Queen is exempt from multiple laws, and multiple rulings made about her are centuries old, the reality is pointing one old law still on the books as proof of present day institutional racism is laughable, Stephen Lawrence was about thirty years ago and the reports that followed are highly contested.
Newspapers are not institutionally racist, neither is the prison service, mainstream media companies, or big tech, or education or finance. Ridiculous claims.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How on earth are they ridiculous claims. There has been a disgusting, disturbing repeated example of Stephen Lawrence just the other day where police were not trying to treat it as race related. Barely anything has changed
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 32 seconds ago
People who defend the booing/boo are either:
Racist
Racially prejudiced
Or willfully naive, happy to defend racists due to conformation bias.
That's it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Classic JA606 bigot.
I can understand anyone who feels as though the gesture is a bit pointless and doesn't achieve anything, but I can't understand anyone booing.
It goes on for about 10 seconds, and is clearly something the majority of players feel passionate about.
Is it really asking too much to respectfully shut up for 10 seconds?
comment by Just Shoot, now a Marxist (U10408)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Just Shoot, now a Marxist (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 23 seconds ago
I read a comment earlier along the lines of "if a white player spoke out and said they were not going to take the knee like Zaha, how would you react". I.e. if Zaha is allowed to not take the knee without getting abuse for it, can a white player? If Zaha disagrees does that make him racist? Blah blah blah
My answer to this is that if a white player did the same as Zaha, i would have an issue with it, while with Zaha I don't. The reason is this: Zaha is part of the community who is affected by the racism and so if he decides that kneeling is not benefiting him/his people then that is his perogative to stop kneeling; he is not actively criticising the fact the others are kneeling or booing himself.
Now if a white player said the same thing, the issue is that they are not qualified to say the success/effectiveness of the kneeling regarding tackling racism. What they should be doing is supporting the general consensus of their black teammates (which is to kneel). Its akin to a man telling a woman about sexism
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That means you are the dictionary definition of a racist. Well done.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fantastic. I bet you are one of the people who wish white people can say the N word too "because black people can"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Got me. I'm Mr. Equality. 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a shame. You should learn the difference between equality and equity.
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 2 minutes ago
I can understand anyone who feels as though the gesture is a bit pointless and doesn't achieve anything, but I can't understand anyone booing.
It goes on for about 10 seconds, and is clearly something the majority of players feel passionate about.
Is it really asking too much to respectfully shut up for 10 seconds?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly is. Look at the extremes to how people are trying to justify it here. Talking about its to do with it being too political and marxist, and that "no1 ever booed KICK IT OUT campaigns". The same campaigns that achieved feck all
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 4 minutes ago
As for the claim that the UK is institutionally racist - there is no evidence for this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is plenty of evidence, even this week it came out the Queen had some clause that they couldn't employ anyone of colour in the palace and they were exempt from discriminatory laws, the Steven Lawerence case, the government, every single comment section in every newspaper, the prison service, police force, mainstream media companies, big tech companies, finance sector, education sector..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's go through each one. The Queen is exempt from multiple laws, and multiple rulings made about her are centuries old, the reality is pointing one old law still on the books as proof of present day institutional racism is laughable, Stephen Lawrence was about thirty years ago and the reports that followed are highly contested.
Newspapers are not institutionally racist, neither is the prison service, mainstream media companies, or big tech, or education or finance. Ridiculous claims.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So because she's the queen, she's allowed to be have racist laws in her favour, ok cool. The Stephen Lawerence case highlighted the institutional racism in the police force and nothing has changed, in 30 years. And the rest is facts too. Whether you think it's ridiculous or not is irrelevant..to me anyway.
I was saying Boooo- urns.
comment by Alisson Becker, Liverpool's Number 9 (U3979)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 32 seconds ago
People who defend the booing/boo are either:
Racist
Racially prejudiced
Or willfully naive, happy to defend racists due to conformation bias.
That's it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Classic JA606 bigot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You must do this! You must do that! Prove to me you are who you say you are!
How did we get here?
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 4 minutes ago
As for the claim that the UK is institutionally racist - there is no evidence for this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is plenty of evidence, even this week it came out the Queen had some clause that they couldn't employ anyone of colour in the palace and they were exempt from discriminatory laws, the Steven Lawerence case, the government, every single comment section in every newspaper, the prison service, police force, mainstream media companies, big tech companies, finance sector, education sector..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's go through each one. The Queen is exempt from multiple laws, and multiple rulings made about her are centuries old, the reality is pointing one old law still on the books as proof of present day institutional racism is laughable, Stephen Lawrence was about thirty years ago and the reports that followed are highly contested.
Newspapers are not institutionally racist, neither is the prison service, mainstream media companies, or big tech, or education or finance. Ridiculous claims.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So because she's the queen, she's allowed to be have racist laws in her favour, ok cool. The Stephen Lawerence case highlighted the institutional racism in the police force and nothing has changed, in 30 years. And the rest is facts too. Whether you think it's ridiculous or not is irrelevant..to me anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think what he's saying is that the laws you're referring to are centuries old and probably forgotten about.
Doesn't make it right but law in this country goes back hundreds of years so obviously some of these niche laws are very much out of date.
I agree with you though, if there wasn't institutionalised racism it wouldn't constantly be a debate. And as a white person I absolutely do not have the ability to give an opinion on that as obviously I've not experienced it.
I agree with you though, if there wasn't institutionalised racism it wouldn't constantly be a debate. And as a white person I absolutely do not have the ability to give an opinion on that as obviously I've not experienced it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
thank you. it feels like people are trying to convince me that certain things 'don't exists' when i have seen, heard, read and felt it first hand, read about it in numerous books, seen various documentary's and films about it but people still deny it exists, it crazy.
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Alisson Becker, Liverpool's Number 9 (U3979)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 32 seconds ago
People who defend the booing/boo are either:
Racist
Racially prejudiced
Or willfully naive, happy to defend racists due to conformation bias.
That's it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Classic JA606 bigot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You must do this! You must do that! Prove to me you are who you say you are!
How did we get here?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
IRU's comment perfectly exemplifies why society is so unbelievably divided now on absolutely everything.
"My opinion is right and if you don't agree with me I can just disregard everything you're saying because you're racist". It's honestly pathetic and why no debate happens anymore and we end up with these horrendous divisions.
I've said time and time again on this thread I don't agree with taking the knee because I think it's tokenism and football players could do a lot more than be involved in this ritual. I'd support social media boycotts and actual tangible actual but I get frustrated seeing powerful white football players taking a knee yet continuing to extensively use social media which is the platform racists use to spout their BS. It's too hypocritical for me.
That doesn't make me a racist.
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 13 seconds ago
I agree with you though, if there wasn't institutionalised racism it wouldn't constantly be a debate. And as a white person I absolutely do not have the ability to give an opinion on that as obviously I've not experienced it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
thank you. it feels like people are trying to convince me that certain things 'don't exists' when i have seen, heard, read and felt it first hand, read about it in numerous books, seen various documentary's and films about it but people still deny it exists, it crazy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also AFC you are absolutely spot on in saying that Zaha should be treated differently to white footballers on this issue.
I hear your frustrations but I just get annoyed watching football players who could do so much more take a knee and think it makes a difference. Just feels to me that they don't really care enough to do something real but want to be seen to be caring
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 7 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 1 second ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 1 minute ago
To be fair, Meghan Markle claims to be a victim despite her wealth, so I am not surprised.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm no fan of Oprah Winfrey, but she was in Paris and was told she couldn't afford some handbag or something. I think that makes her a victim if prejudice, and she's a lot richer than Meghan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
She made some weird anecdote about a snooty handbag salesman in Switzerland I think, without much evidence or proof, when the real privilege is she can buy handbags more expensive than the average annual wage packet of most Americans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whats this, are you saying Oprah/Meghan can't be a victim as they are rich?
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Yeah, apparently if you have money you can't be racially abused...for some reason.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I am saying that wealth is a far greater allocator of privilege than skin colour and a much greater source of discrimination is economic.
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In that case you are a facking idiot and do not know what you are talking about.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, I just support the findings of Tony Sewell's racial and ethnic disparities report and don't utilise personal abuse when I lose an argument.
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1. I have not last the argument
2. The fact u mentioned the report which has been heavily criticised just further adds to the fact you are a facking idiot
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1. Yes you have, as you have had to resort to abuse
2. I have mentioned a report criticised by those politically interested in disagreeing with it, quelle surprise.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Well stating you are a facking idiot is the same as saying we are in June. Its a fact. Also, you must be a facking idiot to have a rule where "resorting to abuse" means youve lost an argument.
2. You ignorance is embarrassing. Why don't you go and do some research and speak to and listen to the experiences of black people instead of thinking you understand everything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1) Nope, it is you labelling people who disagree with you abusive terms simply because you can't handle meaningful disagreement constructively. There is plenty of evidence that suggests that class-based discrimination and discrimination based on economics are more prominent issues in the UK today.
2) I have read the report's findings and also speak/listen/and watch plenty of black writers and academics who disagree with you. Do not claim to speak for all non white people, nor should you conflate anecdotes with research while on that topic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Except that a lot of criticism of the report comes from academics knowledgeable in the area, Some of whom were included in the report but not accurately. This brings the entire report in question. Anyone using it to justify their racism position has clearly already made up their mind that racism is fine and is looking for something to justify that position.
Poverty is also a massive indicator of inequality. Black people are disproportionately more likely to be living in poverty. So by trying to shift the focus to economics, all you do is further highlight the institutional racism in society.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
First off, it is very common for people not ot agree with reports they are featured in. It is not some slam-dunk revelation to point out some academics are don't share the same outlook as the writer of a report. I studied history, and had to do a dissertation and I doubt 3/4 of the sources I used would have shared my conclusions, for example. It is common.
2) On eonomic inequality, actually what it reveals is that privilege and discrimination is a far more complicated affair than the critical race theory espoused by BLM and people on the left. White working class boys especially in deprived areas such as the North East are among the most disadvantaged, while some of the greatest success stories involve Asian immigrants.
As for the claim that the UK is institutionally racist - there is no evidence for this.
Rather than smearing people and using insults, maybe debate people properly next time, honeybug?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Right, so you wrote a dissertation for your degree that quoted historians who then publicly came out and stated you had misrepresented them, had that dissertation given a really poor mark by your senior academic lecturers, but still tried to claim it was a top notch bit of work that should be used to inform university policy? Or are you trying to make a false equivalency because you.dont want to accept that the report was torn apart by prominent academics?
2. So you suggest that poverty and discrimination are complicated affairs and then suggest that race plays no part because some asian immigrants do well and some white people don't? That seems like you are providing a simplistic analysis of something you claimed was complicated.
3. There is plenty of evidence of institutional racism
4. Interesting that I can't find a specific insult in my post that you replied to, but you use a condescending "honey bug" whilst requesting people don't use insults. Somewhat hypocritical isn't it?
comment by Alisson Becker, Liverpool's Number 9 (U3979)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Alisson Becker, Liverpool's Number 9 (U3979)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 32 seconds ago
People who defend the booing/boo are either:
Racist
Racially prejudiced
Or willfully naive, happy to defend racists due to conformation bias.
That's it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Classic JA606 bigot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You must do this! You must do that! Prove to me you are who you say you are!
How did we get here?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
IRU's comment perfectly exemplifies why society is so unbelievably divided now on absolutely everything.
"My opinion is right and if you don't agree with me I can just disregard everything you're saying because you're racist". It's honestly pathetic and why no debate happens anymore and we end up with these horrendous divisions.
I've said time and time again on this thread I don't agree with taking the knee because I think it's tokenism and football players could do a lot more than be involved in this ritual. I'd support social media boycotts and actual tangible actual but I get frustrated seeing powerful white football players taking a knee yet continuing to extensively use social media which is the platform racists use to spout their BS. It's too hypocritical for me.
That doesn't make me a racist.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your not alone.
I think it comes down to mentality. Some people don't mind being told what to do and are comfortable with that element of control that's over them. Others understand the issues but deal with things on their own terms and don't really like being told what to do.
To be called racist for that is shameful and to go full circle can only politically motivated.
What else can it be?
comment by Alisson Becker, Liverpool's Number 9 (U3979)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 4 minutes ago
As for the claim that the UK is institutionally racist - there is no evidence for this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is plenty of evidence, even this week it came out the Queen had some clause that they couldn't employ anyone of colour in the palace and they were exempt from discriminatory laws, the Steven Lawerence case, the government, every single comment section in every newspaper, the prison service, police force, mainstream media companies, big tech companies, finance sector, education sector..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's go through each one. The Queen is exempt from multiple laws, and multiple rulings made about her are centuries old, the reality is pointing one old law still on the books as proof of present day institutional racism is laughable, Stephen Lawrence was about thirty years ago and the reports that followed are highly contested.
Newspapers are not institutionally racist, neither is the prison service, mainstream media companies, or big tech, or education or finance. Ridiculous claims.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So because she's the queen, she's allowed to be have racist laws in her favour, ok cool. The Stephen Lawerence case highlighted the institutional racism in the police force and nothing has changed, in 30 years. And the rest is facts too. Whether you think it's ridiculous or not is irrelevant..to me anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think what he's saying is that the laws you're referring to are centuries old and probably forgotten about.
Doesn't make it right but law in this country goes back hundreds of years so obviously some of these niche laws are very much out of date.
I agree with you though, if there wasn't institutionalised racism it wouldn't constantly be a debate. And as a white person I absolutely do not have the ability to give an opinion on that as obviously I've not experienced it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Doesn't make it right but law in this country goes back hundreds of years so obviously some of these niche laws are very much out of date."
The Queen had exemptions specifically written into equality legislation in the 1960s, and 1970s. "The exemption was extended to the present day when in 2010 the Equality Act replaced the 1976 Race Relations Act, the 1975 S.e x Discrimination Act and the 1970 Equal Pay Act." From the Guardian report.
The Equality Act 2010 is not niche legislation from centuries ago.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Alisson Becker, Liverpool's Number 9 (U3979)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 4 minutes ago
As for the claim that the UK is institutionally racist - there is no evidence for this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is plenty of evidence, even this week it came out the Queen had some clause that they couldn't employ anyone of colour in the palace and they were exempt from discriminatory laws, the Steven Lawerence case, the government, every single comment section in every newspaper, the prison service, police force, mainstream media companies, big tech companies, finance sector, education sector..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's go through each one. The Queen is exempt from multiple laws, and multiple rulings made about her are centuries old, the reality is pointing one old law still on the books as proof of present day institutional racism is laughable, Stephen Lawrence was about thirty years ago and the reports that followed are highly contested.
Newspapers are not institutionally racist, neither is the prison service, mainstream media companies, or big tech, or education or finance. Ridiculous claims.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So because she's the queen, she's allowed to be have racist laws in her favour, ok cool. The Stephen Lawerence case highlighted the institutional racism in the police force and nothing has changed, in 30 years. And the rest is facts too. Whether you think it's ridiculous or not is irrelevant..to me anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think what he's saying is that the laws you're referring to are centuries old and probably forgotten about.
Doesn't make it right but law in this country goes back hundreds of years so obviously some of these niche laws are very much out of date.
I agree with you though, if there wasn't institutionalised racism it wouldn't constantly be a debate. And as a white person I absolutely do not have the ability to give an opinion on that as obviously I've not experienced it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Doesn't make it right but law in this country goes back hundreds of years so obviously some of these niche laws are very much out of date."
The Queen had exemptions specifically written into equality legislation in the 1960s, and 1970s. "The exemption was extended to the present day when in 2010 the Equality Act replaced the 1976 Race Relations Act, the 1975 S.e x Discrimination Act and the 1970 Equal Pay Act." From the Guardian report.
The Equality Act 2010 is not niche legislation from centuries ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then that is pretty disgraceful and apologies for misreading the situation.
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 54 minutes ago
Thats all very well and I don't disagree with any of it but in the real world many people associate the BLM with wanting to defund and attack the police and tear down statues.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what YOU associate with BLM because that was the narrative that was clearly pushed . Acting like Black people just woke up super angry one day and just started tearing down statues, when everyone knows this has been brewing for ages, with inequality and injustices getting filmed more regularly and getting worse, the Floyd killing was the final straw, for the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I realise that I will be called a racist on here by people like you but I couldn't give a t0ss.
If the powers that be want to keep the gesture but reduce the booing (there will always be some) then taking the knee should be promoted as a stand alone gesture that the players want to do and no BLM banners or logo should be anywhere to be seen.
Sign in if you want to comment
Why the boos at the England matches?
Page 21 of 43
22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26
posted on 8/6/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/6/21
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 4 minutes ago
As for the claim that the UK is institutionally racist - there is no evidence for this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is plenty of evidence, even this week it came out the Queen had some clause that they couldn't employ anyone of colour in the palace and they were exempt from discriminatory laws, the Steven Lawerence case, the government, every single comment section in every newspaper, the prison service, police force, mainstream media companies, big tech companies, finance sector, education sector..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No mate, because the report said UKs not institutionally racist, means its not institutionally racist!
posted on 8/6/21
comment by Just Shoot, now a Marxist (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 23 seconds ago
I read a comment earlier along the lines of "if a white player spoke out and said they were not going to take the knee like Zaha, how would you react". I.e. if Zaha is allowed to not take the knee without getting abuse for it, can a white player? If Zaha disagrees does that make him racist? Blah blah blah
My answer to this is that if a white player did the same as Zaha, i would have an issue with it, while with Zaha I don't. The reason is this: Zaha is part of the community who is affected by the racism and so if he decides that kneeling is not benefiting him/his people then that is his perogative to stop kneeling; he is not actively criticising the fact the others are kneeling or booing himself.
Now if a white player said the same thing, the issue is that they are not qualified to say the success/effectiveness of the kneeling regarding tackling racism. What they should be doing is supporting the general consensus of their black teammates (which is to kneel). Its akin to a man telling a woman about sexism
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That means you are the dictionary definition of a racist. Well done.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fantastic. I bet you are one of the people who wish white people can say the N word too "because black people can"
posted on 8/6/21
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 8 seconds ago
I read a comment earlier along the lines of "if a white player spoke out and said they were not going to take the knee like Zaha, how would you react". I.e. if Zaha is allowed to not take the knee without getting abuse for it, can a white player? If Zaha disagrees does that make him racist? Blah blah blah
My answer to this is that if a white player did the same as Zaha, i would have an issue with it, while with Zaha I don't. The reason is this: Zaha is part of the community who is affected by the racism and so if he decides that kneeling is not benefiting him/his people then that is his perogative to stop kneeling; he is not actively criticising the fact the others are kneeling or booing himself.
Now if a white player said the same thing, the issue is that they are not qualified to say the success/effectiveness of the kneeling regarding tackling racism. What they should be doing is supporting the general consensus of their black teammates (which is to kneel). Its akin to a man telling a woman about sexism
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t you think things like this lose any weight when they become contrived and not spontaneous?
A bit like the poppy wearing thing
posted on 8/6/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/6/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/6/21
People who defend the booing/boo are either:
Racist
Racially prejudiced
Or willfully naive, happy to defend racists due to conformation bias.
That's it.
posted on 8/6/21
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 4 minutes ago
As for the claim that the UK is institutionally racist - there is no evidence for this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is plenty of evidence, even this week it came out the Queen had some clause that they couldn't employ anyone of colour in the palace and they were exempt from discriminatory laws, the Steven Lawerence case, the government, every single comment section in every newspaper, the prison service, police force, mainstream media companies, big tech companies, finance sector, education sector..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's go through each one. The Queen is exempt from multiple laws, and multiple rulings made about her are centuries old, the reality is pointing one old law still on the books as proof of present day institutional racism is laughable, Stephen Lawrence was about thirty years ago and the reports that followed are highly contested.
Newspapers are not institutionally racist, neither is the prison service, mainstream media companies, or big tech, or education or finance. Ridiculous claims.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How on earth are they ridiculous claims. There has been a disgusting, disturbing repeated example of Stephen Lawrence just the other day where police were not trying to treat it as race related. Barely anything has changed
posted on 8/6/21
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 32 seconds ago
People who defend the booing/boo are either:
Racist
Racially prejudiced
Or willfully naive, happy to defend racists due to conformation bias.
That's it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Classic JA606 bigot.
posted on 8/6/21
I can understand anyone who feels as though the gesture is a bit pointless and doesn't achieve anything, but I can't understand anyone booing.
It goes on for about 10 seconds, and is clearly something the majority of players feel passionate about.
Is it really asking too much to respectfully shut up for 10 seconds?
posted on 8/6/21
comment by Just Shoot, now a Marxist (U10408)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Just Shoot, now a Marxist (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 23 seconds ago
I read a comment earlier along the lines of "if a white player spoke out and said they were not going to take the knee like Zaha, how would you react". I.e. if Zaha is allowed to not take the knee without getting abuse for it, can a white player? If Zaha disagrees does that make him racist? Blah blah blah
My answer to this is that if a white player did the same as Zaha, i would have an issue with it, while with Zaha I don't. The reason is this: Zaha is part of the community who is affected by the racism and so if he decides that kneeling is not benefiting him/his people then that is his perogative to stop kneeling; he is not actively criticising the fact the others are kneeling or booing himself.
Now if a white player said the same thing, the issue is that they are not qualified to say the success/effectiveness of the kneeling regarding tackling racism. What they should be doing is supporting the general consensus of their black teammates (which is to kneel). Its akin to a man telling a woman about sexism
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That means you are the dictionary definition of a racist. Well done.
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Fantastic. I bet you are one of the people who wish white people can say the N word too "because black people can"
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Got me. I'm Mr. Equality. 👍
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What a shame. You should learn the difference between equality and equity.
posted on 8/6/21
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 2 minutes ago
I can understand anyone who feels as though the gesture is a bit pointless and doesn't achieve anything, but I can't understand anyone booing.
It goes on for about 10 seconds, and is clearly something the majority of players feel passionate about.
Is it really asking too much to respectfully shut up for 10 seconds?
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Clearly is. Look at the extremes to how people are trying to justify it here. Talking about its to do with it being too political and marxist, and that "no1 ever booed KICK IT OUT campaigns". The same campaigns that achieved feck all
posted on 8/6/21
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 4 minutes ago
As for the claim that the UK is institutionally racist - there is no evidence for this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is plenty of evidence, even this week it came out the Queen had some clause that they couldn't employ anyone of colour in the palace and they were exempt from discriminatory laws, the Steven Lawerence case, the government, every single comment section in every newspaper, the prison service, police force, mainstream media companies, big tech companies, finance sector, education sector..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's go through each one. The Queen is exempt from multiple laws, and multiple rulings made about her are centuries old, the reality is pointing one old law still on the books as proof of present day institutional racism is laughable, Stephen Lawrence was about thirty years ago and the reports that followed are highly contested.
Newspapers are not institutionally racist, neither is the prison service, mainstream media companies, or big tech, or education or finance. Ridiculous claims.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So because she's the queen, she's allowed to be have racist laws in her favour, ok cool. The Stephen Lawerence case highlighted the institutional racism in the police force and nothing has changed, in 30 years. And the rest is facts too. Whether you think it's ridiculous or not is irrelevant..to me anyway.
posted on 8/6/21
I was saying Boooo- urns.
posted on 8/6/21
comment by Alisson Becker, Liverpool's Number 9 (U3979)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 32 seconds ago
People who defend the booing/boo are either:
Racist
Racially prejudiced
Or willfully naive, happy to defend racists due to conformation bias.
That's it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Classic JA606 bigot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You must do this! You must do that! Prove to me you are who you say you are!
How did we get here?
posted on 8/6/21
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 4 minutes ago
As for the claim that the UK is institutionally racist - there is no evidence for this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is plenty of evidence, even this week it came out the Queen had some clause that they couldn't employ anyone of colour in the palace and they were exempt from discriminatory laws, the Steven Lawerence case, the government, every single comment section in every newspaper, the prison service, police force, mainstream media companies, big tech companies, finance sector, education sector..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's go through each one. The Queen is exempt from multiple laws, and multiple rulings made about her are centuries old, the reality is pointing one old law still on the books as proof of present day institutional racism is laughable, Stephen Lawrence was about thirty years ago and the reports that followed are highly contested.
Newspapers are not institutionally racist, neither is the prison service, mainstream media companies, or big tech, or education or finance. Ridiculous claims.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So because she's the queen, she's allowed to be have racist laws in her favour, ok cool. The Stephen Lawerence case highlighted the institutional racism in the police force and nothing has changed, in 30 years. And the rest is facts too. Whether you think it's ridiculous or not is irrelevant..to me anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think what he's saying is that the laws you're referring to are centuries old and probably forgotten about.
Doesn't make it right but law in this country goes back hundreds of years so obviously some of these niche laws are very much out of date.
I agree with you though, if there wasn't institutionalised racism it wouldn't constantly be a debate. And as a white person I absolutely do not have the ability to give an opinion on that as obviously I've not experienced it.
posted on 8/6/21
I agree with you though, if there wasn't institutionalised racism it wouldn't constantly be a debate. And as a white person I absolutely do not have the ability to give an opinion on that as obviously I've not experienced it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
thank you. it feels like people are trying to convince me that certain things 'don't exists' when i have seen, heard, read and felt it first hand, read about it in numerous books, seen various documentary's and films about it but people still deny it exists, it crazy.
posted on 8/6/21
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Alisson Becker, Liverpool's Number 9 (U3979)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 32 seconds ago
People who defend the booing/boo are either:
Racist
Racially prejudiced
Or willfully naive, happy to defend racists due to conformation bias.
That's it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Classic JA606 bigot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You must do this! You must do that! Prove to me you are who you say you are!
How did we get here?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
IRU's comment perfectly exemplifies why society is so unbelievably divided now on absolutely everything.
"My opinion is right and if you don't agree with me I can just disregard everything you're saying because you're racist". It's honestly pathetic and why no debate happens anymore and we end up with these horrendous divisions.
I've said time and time again on this thread I don't agree with taking the knee because I think it's tokenism and football players could do a lot more than be involved in this ritual. I'd support social media boycotts and actual tangible actual but I get frustrated seeing powerful white football players taking a knee yet continuing to extensively use social media which is the platform racists use to spout their BS. It's too hypocritical for me.
That doesn't make me a racist.
posted on 8/6/21
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 13 seconds ago
I agree with you though, if there wasn't institutionalised racism it wouldn't constantly be a debate. And as a white person I absolutely do not have the ability to give an opinion on that as obviously I've not experienced it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
thank you. it feels like people are trying to convince me that certain things 'don't exists' when i have seen, heard, read and felt it first hand, read about it in numerous books, seen various documentary's and films about it but people still deny it exists, it crazy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also AFC you are absolutely spot on in saying that Zaha should be treated differently to white footballers on this issue.
I hear your frustrations but I just get annoyed watching football players who could do so much more take a knee and think it makes a difference. Just feels to me that they don't really care enough to do something real but want to be seen to be caring
posted on 8/6/21
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 7 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 1 second ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 1 minute ago
To be fair, Meghan Markle claims to be a victim despite her wealth, so I am not surprised.
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I'm no fan of Oprah Winfrey, but she was in Paris and was told she couldn't afford some handbag or something. I think that makes her a victim if prejudice, and she's a lot richer than Meghan.
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She made some weird anecdote about a snooty handbag salesman in Switzerland I think, without much evidence or proof, when the real privilege is she can buy handbags more expensive than the average annual wage packet of most Americans.
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Whats this, are you saying Oprah/Meghan can't be a victim as they are rich?
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Yeah, apparently if you have money you can't be racially abused...for some reason.
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No, I am saying that wealth is a far greater allocator of privilege than skin colour and a much greater source of discrimination is economic.
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In that case you are a facking idiot and do not know what you are talking about.
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Actually, I just support the findings of Tony Sewell's racial and ethnic disparities report and don't utilise personal abuse when I lose an argument.
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1. I have not last the argument
2. The fact u mentioned the report which has been heavily criticised just further adds to the fact you are a facking idiot
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1. Yes you have, as you have had to resort to abuse
2. I have mentioned a report criticised by those politically interested in disagreeing with it, quelle surprise.
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1. Well stating you are a facking idiot is the same as saying we are in June. Its a fact. Also, you must be a facking idiot to have a rule where "resorting to abuse" means youve lost an argument.
2. You ignorance is embarrassing. Why don't you go and do some research and speak to and listen to the experiences of black people instead of thinking you understand everything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1) Nope, it is you labelling people who disagree with you abusive terms simply because you can't handle meaningful disagreement constructively. There is plenty of evidence that suggests that class-based discrimination and discrimination based on economics are more prominent issues in the UK today.
2) I have read the report's findings and also speak/listen/and watch plenty of black writers and academics who disagree with you. Do not claim to speak for all non white people, nor should you conflate anecdotes with research while on that topic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Except that a lot of criticism of the report comes from academics knowledgeable in the area, Some of whom were included in the report but not accurately. This brings the entire report in question. Anyone using it to justify their racism position has clearly already made up their mind that racism is fine and is looking for something to justify that position.
Poverty is also a massive indicator of inequality. Black people are disproportionately more likely to be living in poverty. So by trying to shift the focus to economics, all you do is further highlight the institutional racism in society.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
First off, it is very common for people not ot agree with reports they are featured in. It is not some slam-dunk revelation to point out some academics are don't share the same outlook as the writer of a report. I studied history, and had to do a dissertation and I doubt 3/4 of the sources I used would have shared my conclusions, for example. It is common.
2) On eonomic inequality, actually what it reveals is that privilege and discrimination is a far more complicated affair than the critical race theory espoused by BLM and people on the left. White working class boys especially in deprived areas such as the North East are among the most disadvantaged, while some of the greatest success stories involve Asian immigrants.
As for the claim that the UK is institutionally racist - there is no evidence for this.
Rather than smearing people and using insults, maybe debate people properly next time, honeybug?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Right, so you wrote a dissertation for your degree that quoted historians who then publicly came out and stated you had misrepresented them, had that dissertation given a really poor mark by your senior academic lecturers, but still tried to claim it was a top notch bit of work that should be used to inform university policy? Or are you trying to make a false equivalency because you.dont want to accept that the report was torn apart by prominent academics?
2. So you suggest that poverty and discrimination are complicated affairs and then suggest that race plays no part because some asian immigrants do well and some white people don't? That seems like you are providing a simplistic analysis of something you claimed was complicated.
3. There is plenty of evidence of institutional racism
4. Interesting that I can't find a specific insult in my post that you replied to, but you use a condescending "honey bug" whilst requesting people don't use insults. Somewhat hypocritical isn't it?
posted on 8/6/21
comment by Alisson Becker, Liverpool's Number 9 (U3979)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Alisson Becker, Liverpool's Number 9 (U3979)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 32 seconds ago
People who defend the booing/boo are either:
Racist
Racially prejudiced
Or willfully naive, happy to defend racists due to conformation bias.
That's it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Classic JA606 bigot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You must do this! You must do that! Prove to me you are who you say you are!
How did we get here?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
IRU's comment perfectly exemplifies why society is so unbelievably divided now on absolutely everything.
"My opinion is right and if you don't agree with me I can just disregard everything you're saying because you're racist". It's honestly pathetic and why no debate happens anymore and we end up with these horrendous divisions.
I've said time and time again on this thread I don't agree with taking the knee because I think it's tokenism and football players could do a lot more than be involved in this ritual. I'd support social media boycotts and actual tangible actual but I get frustrated seeing powerful white football players taking a knee yet continuing to extensively use social media which is the platform racists use to spout their BS. It's too hypocritical for me.
That doesn't make me a racist.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your not alone.
I think it comes down to mentality. Some people don't mind being told what to do and are comfortable with that element of control that's over them. Others understand the issues but deal with things on their own terms and don't really like being told what to do.
To be called racist for that is shameful and to go full circle can only politically motivated.
What else can it be?
posted on 8/6/21
comment by Alisson Becker, Liverpool's Number 9 (U3979)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 4 minutes ago
As for the claim that the UK is institutionally racist - there is no evidence for this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is plenty of evidence, even this week it came out the Queen had some clause that they couldn't employ anyone of colour in the palace and they were exempt from discriminatory laws, the Steven Lawerence case, the government, every single comment section in every newspaper, the prison service, police force, mainstream media companies, big tech companies, finance sector, education sector..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's go through each one. The Queen is exempt from multiple laws, and multiple rulings made about her are centuries old, the reality is pointing one old law still on the books as proof of present day institutional racism is laughable, Stephen Lawrence was about thirty years ago and the reports that followed are highly contested.
Newspapers are not institutionally racist, neither is the prison service, mainstream media companies, or big tech, or education or finance. Ridiculous claims.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So because she's the queen, she's allowed to be have racist laws in her favour, ok cool. The Stephen Lawerence case highlighted the institutional racism in the police force and nothing has changed, in 30 years. And the rest is facts too. Whether you think it's ridiculous or not is irrelevant..to me anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think what he's saying is that the laws you're referring to are centuries old and probably forgotten about.
Doesn't make it right but law in this country goes back hundreds of years so obviously some of these niche laws are very much out of date.
I agree with you though, if there wasn't institutionalised racism it wouldn't constantly be a debate. And as a white person I absolutely do not have the ability to give an opinion on that as obviously I've not experienced it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Doesn't make it right but law in this country goes back hundreds of years so obviously some of these niche laws are very much out of date."
The Queen had exemptions specifically written into equality legislation in the 1960s, and 1970s. "The exemption was extended to the present day when in 2010 the Equality Act replaced the 1976 Race Relations Act, the 1975 S.e x Discrimination Act and the 1970 Equal Pay Act." From the Guardian report.
The Equality Act 2010 is not niche legislation from centuries ago.
posted on 8/6/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/6/21
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Alisson Becker, Liverpool's Number 9 (U3979)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 4 minutes ago
As for the claim that the UK is institutionally racist - there is no evidence for this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is plenty of evidence, even this week it came out the Queen had some clause that they couldn't employ anyone of colour in the palace and they were exempt from discriminatory laws, the Steven Lawerence case, the government, every single comment section in every newspaper, the prison service, police force, mainstream media companies, big tech companies, finance sector, education sector..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's go through each one. The Queen is exempt from multiple laws, and multiple rulings made about her are centuries old, the reality is pointing one old law still on the books as proof of present day institutional racism is laughable, Stephen Lawrence was about thirty years ago and the reports that followed are highly contested.
Newspapers are not institutionally racist, neither is the prison service, mainstream media companies, or big tech, or education or finance. Ridiculous claims.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So because she's the queen, she's allowed to be have racist laws in her favour, ok cool. The Stephen Lawerence case highlighted the institutional racism in the police force and nothing has changed, in 30 years. And the rest is facts too. Whether you think it's ridiculous or not is irrelevant..to me anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think what he's saying is that the laws you're referring to are centuries old and probably forgotten about.
Doesn't make it right but law in this country goes back hundreds of years so obviously some of these niche laws are very much out of date.
I agree with you though, if there wasn't institutionalised racism it wouldn't constantly be a debate. And as a white person I absolutely do not have the ability to give an opinion on that as obviously I've not experienced it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Doesn't make it right but law in this country goes back hundreds of years so obviously some of these niche laws are very much out of date."
The Queen had exemptions specifically written into equality legislation in the 1960s, and 1970s. "The exemption was extended to the present day when in 2010 the Equality Act replaced the 1976 Race Relations Act, the 1975 S.e x Discrimination Act and the 1970 Equal Pay Act." From the Guardian report.
The Equality Act 2010 is not niche legislation from centuries ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then that is pretty disgraceful and apologies for misreading the situation.
posted on 8/6/21
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 54 minutes ago
Thats all very well and I don't disagree with any of it but in the real world many people associate the BLM with wanting to defund and attack the police and tear down statues.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what YOU associate with BLM because that was the narrative that was clearly pushed . Acting like Black people just woke up super angry one day and just started tearing down statues, when everyone knows this has been brewing for ages, with inequality and injustices getting filmed more regularly and getting worse, the Floyd killing was the final straw, for the world.
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I realise that I will be called a racist on here by people like you but I couldn't give a t0ss.
If the powers that be want to keep the gesture but reduce the booing (there will always be some) then taking the knee should be promoted as a stand alone gesture that the players want to do and no BLM banners or logo should be anywhere to be seen.
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