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comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 5 minutes ago
I imagine people have different reasons for booing or not generally supporting the gesture

- a portion are likely racist
- some perceive it is a radical political gesture and assocuate it with the BLM protests of last summer and the initial response to George Floyd
- some think footballers should not lecture fans and sports and politics don't mix
- others are probably trolls loving the reaction

Sympathy with the middle two reasons listed, even if I personally wouldnt boo
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I struggle to have sympathy with points two and three to be honest. Anyone that takes it upon themselves to interpret the actions of someone else as a political gesture (even when the people doing it have said it isn’t) and then subsequently gets offended by it may as well just be calling themselves a tw@t in the mirror.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I disagree.

I think the actions are clearly political, and this is not really relevant to how they have morphed into a generic stance against equality.

The gesture followed George Floyd, was inspired by activism in the US, and was initially labelled under BLM - which is a radical stance whether you feel prepared to admit it or not.

I also don't like the idea of hyper privileged millionaires lecturing players and pretending meaning tweets written about them means they are oppressed and not among the luckiest human beings in the history of our entire species.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Except taking the knee predates BLM which sort of negates your entire point about it being initially labelled as it...

Yeah I thought that taking the knee was long before George Floyd.

As to whoever said players should just come off all social media, that's pretty much just victim blaming.

Rather than that, why don't we try to educate future generations better and show consequences for those who are racist online, rather than punishing those on the receiving end of it?

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comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 9 seconds ago
Yeah I thought that taking the knee was long before George Floyd.

As to whoever said players should just come off all social media, that's pretty much just victim blaming.

Rather than that, why don't we try to educate future generations better and show consequences for those who are racist online, rather than punishing those on the receiving end of it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Educate just means condition everyone to think like you want them to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, I want people to think other races should be treated equally. Why are you arguing against this so hard?

comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 9 seconds ago
Yeah I thought that taking the knee was long before George Floyd.

As to whoever said players should just come off all social media, that's pretty much just victim blaming.

Rather than that, why don't we try to educate future generations better and show consequences for those who are racist online, rather than punishing those on the receiving end of it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Educate just means condition everyone to think like you want them to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it doesn't

It's giving people an understanding of the impact and consequences of certain actions so they don't turn out racist f()cks like their parents

comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 5 minutes ago
I imagine people have different reasons for booing or not generally supporting the gesture

- a portion are likely racist
- some perceive it is a radical political gesture and assocuate it with the BLM protests of last summer and the initial response to George Floyd
- some think footballers should not lecture fans and sports and politics don't mix
- others are probably trolls loving the reaction

Sympathy with the middle two reasons listed, even if I personally wouldnt boo
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I struggle to have sympathy with points two and three to be honest. Anyone that takes it upon themselves to interpret the actions of someone else as a political gesture (even when the people doing it have said it isn’t) and then subsequently gets offended by it may as well just be calling themselves a tw@t in the mirror.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I disagree.

I think the actions are clearly political, and this is not really relevant to how they have morphed into a generic stance against equality.

The gesture followed George Floyd, was inspired by activism in the US, and was initially labelled under BLM - which is a radical stance whether you feel prepared to admit it or not.

I also don't like the idea of hyper privileged millionaires lecturing players and pretending meaning tweets written about them means they are oppressed and not among the luckiest human beings in the history of our entire species.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Except taking the knee predates BLM which sort of negates your entire point about it being initially labelled as it...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Taking the knee predates BLM and was then a political action in the civil rights movement, but it has since been used and popularised by BLM riots, Kaepernick and activism generally. To pretend otherwise is delusional.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

So we agree that it is used as a general anti-racist stance and is not actually affiliated with BLM. What point were you trying to make?

comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 9 seconds ago
Yeah I thought that taking the knee was long before George Floyd.

As to whoever said players should just come off all social media, that's pretty much just victim blaming.

Rather than that, why don't we try to educate future generations better and show consequences for those who are racist online, rather than punishing those on the receiving end of it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Educate just means condition everyone to think like you want them to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not at all. I'm not one of these people who wants to live in an echo chamber and I try to see other viewpoints without dismissing people, but I feel like things like this do boil down to lack of education.

People looking for someone to blame for certain things but they don't fully understand exactly what is happening so they just go for the easy target and surround themselves with similar people who just rile each other up and validate each others' opinions, while dismissing anyone elses as being a snowflake.

I think we're not that far behind America in those stakes and they're pretty much a broken state where a third of the population is consumed by a cult.

comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 9 seconds ago
Yeah I thought that taking the knee was long before George Floyd.

As to whoever said players should just come off all social media, that's pretty much just victim blaming.

Rather than that, why don't we try to educate future generations better and show consequences for those who are racist online, rather than punishing those on the receiving end of it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Educate just means condition everyone to think like you want them to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not at all. I'm not one of these people who wants to live in an echo chamber and I try to see other viewpoints without dismissing people, but I feel like things like this do boil down to lack of education.

People looking for someone to blame for certain things but they don't fully understand exactly what is happening so they just go for the easy target and surround themselves with similar people who just rile each other up and validate each others' opinions, while dismissing anyone elses as being a snowflake.

I think we're not that far behind America in those stakes and they're pretty much a broken state where a third of the population is consumed by a cult.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where 'cancel culture' is used as an insult by people who want to be able to be as objectionable, hurtful or racist as they want without anyone calling them out on it.

comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 5 minutes ago
I imagine people have different reasons for booing or not generally supporting the gesture

- a portion are likely racist
- some perceive it is a radical political gesture and assocuate it with the BLM protests of last summer and the initial response to George Floyd
- some think footballers should not lecture fans and sports and politics don't mix
- others are probably trolls loving the reaction

Sympathy with the middle two reasons listed, even if I personally wouldnt boo
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I struggle to have sympathy with points two and three to be honest. Anyone that takes it upon themselves to interpret the actions of someone else as a political gesture (even when the people doing it have said it isn’t) and then subsequently gets offended by it may as well just be calling themselves a tw@t in the mirror.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I disagree.

I think the actions are clearly political, and this is not really relevant to how they have morphed into a generic stance against equality.

The gesture followed George Floyd, was inspired by activism in the US, and was initially labelled under BLM - which is a radical stance whether you feel prepared to admit it or not.

I also don't like the idea of hyper privileged millionaires lecturing players and pretending meaning tweets written about them means they are oppressed and not among the luckiest human beings in the history of our entire species.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Disagreeing with it by stating what that gesture symbolises to you is an odd reply given the behaviour I was criticising in my post tbh!

The gesture preceded George Floyd. The movement also preceded him, as it did Kaepernick or any of the chapters seeking to advance their political ideologies Even if when the gesture was initially used was for political motivation, it doesn’t mean it stays that way (raised fist being a prime example of that).

Even so, footballers have said what their motivations are for doing it and Kick it Out have backed that up too. Now that people know that, I’m not sure what excuse there can be for continued misinterpretation of their motivations. If there is then it’s that modern day phenomenon of perceived offence and like I said, people may as well just spend the day abusing themselves in the mirror for all the good that does.

Where 'cancel culture' is used as an insult by people who want to be able to be as objectionable, hurtful or racist as they want without anyone calling them out on it.
__________________

A lot of the time it's covered in hypocrisy too, the same people moaning about cancel culture would be those trying to stop the vote etc.

They're often the biggest snowflakes themselves, but rather than having any hobbies they just get their identity caught up in this obsession and become more and more lost.

comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 5 minutes ago
I imagine people have different reasons for booing or not generally supporting the gesture

- a portion are likely racist
- some perceive it is a radical political gesture and assocuate it with the BLM protests of last summer and the initial response to George Floyd
- some think footballers should not lecture fans and sports and politics don't mix
- others are probably trolls loving the reaction

Sympathy with the middle two reasons listed, even if I personally wouldnt boo
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I struggle to have sympathy with points two and three to be honest. Anyone that takes it upon themselves to interpret the actions of someone else as a political gesture (even when the people doing it have said it isn’t) and then subsequently gets offended by it may as well just be calling themselves a tw@t in the mirror.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I disagree.

I think the actions are clearly political, and this is not really relevant to how they have morphed into a generic stance against equality.

The gesture followed George Floyd, was inspired by activism in the US, and was initially labelled under BLM - which is a radical stance whether you feel prepared to admit it or not.

I also don't like the idea of hyper privileged millionaires lecturing players and pretending meaning tweets written about them means they are oppressed and not among the luckiest human beings in the history of our entire species.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Except taking the knee predates BLM which sort of negates your entire point about it being initially labelled as it...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Taking the knee predates BLM and was then a political action in the civil rights movement, but it has since been used and popularised by BLM riots, Kaepernick and activism generally. To pretend otherwise is delusional.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

So we agree that it is used as a general anti-racist stance and is not actually affiliated with BLM. What point were you trying to make?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is so naive.

The BLM logo is everywhere so of course the two will be linked and no amount of pleading to the contrary will work until the logo disappears.

comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 9 seconds ago
Yeah I thought that taking the knee was long before George Floyd.

As to whoever said players should just come off all social media, that's pretty much just victim blaming.

Rather than that, why don't we try to educate future generations better and show consequences for those who are racist online, rather than punishing those on the receiving end of it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Educate just means condition everyone to think like you want them to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone that says that has clearly not had much experience of decent education as that is not the case at all.

The only way through to get to the proper discussions around root causes is through education. Otherwise the debate stays on the symptoms and the superficial forever - like arguing about a gesture like taking the knee.

I don't watch my football on Sky so I don't see the BLM logo at all when I watch football.

Boo Sky for taking a stance, don't boo black players for making a stand against racism.

comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 20 seconds ago
I don't watch my football on Sky so I don't see the BLM logo at all when I watch football.

Boo Sky for taking a stance, don't boo black players for making a stand against racism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes but its not all about you.

Lots of folk watch footie on Sky and some will inevitably see the BLM movement and the taking of the knee as interlinked.

comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 5 minutes ago
I imagine people have different reasons for booing or not generally supporting the gesture

- a portion are likely racist
- some perceive it is a radical political gesture and assocuate it with the BLM protests of last summer and the initial response to George Floyd
- some think footballers should not lecture fans and sports and politics don't mix
- others are probably trolls loving the reaction

Sympathy with the middle two reasons listed, even if I personally wouldnt boo
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I struggle to have sympathy with points two and three to be honest. Anyone that takes it upon themselves to interpret the actions of someone else as a political gesture (even when the people doing it have said it isn’t) and then subsequently gets offended by it may as well just be calling themselves a tw@t in the mirror.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I disagree.

I think the actions are clearly political, and this is not really relevant to how they have morphed into a generic stance against equality.

The gesture followed George Floyd, was inspired by activism in the US, and was initially labelled under BLM - which is a radical stance whether you feel prepared to admit it or not.

I also don't like the idea of hyper privileged millionaires lecturing players and pretending meaning tweets written about them means they are oppressed and not among the luckiest human beings in the history of our entire species.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Except taking the knee predates BLM which sort of negates your entire point about it being initially labelled as it...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Taking the knee predates BLM and was then a political action in the civil rights movement, but it has since been used and popularised by BLM riots, Kaepernick and activism generally. To pretend otherwise is delusional.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

So we agree that it is used as a general anti-racist stance and is not actually affiliated with BLM. What point were you trying to make?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is so naive.

The BLM logo is everywhere so of course the two will be linked and no amount of pleading to the contrary will work until the logo disappears.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Everywhere? If you have to exaggerate to make your point then you don't have a point.

Do you advocate booing people who wear poppies because the poppy had been associated with far-roght racist groups?

comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 20 seconds ago
I don't watch my football on Sky so I don't see the BLM logo at all when I watch football.

Boo Sky for taking a stance, don't boo black players for making a stand against racism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes but its not all about you.

Lots of folk watch footie on Sky and some will inevitably see the BLM movement and the taking of the knee as interlinked.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But if you can't seperate the opinions of those at Sky to those of the players then do you not think there's a need to look at yourself?

comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 5 minutes ago
I imagine people have different reasons for booing or not generally supporting the gesture

- a portion are likely racist
- some perceive it is a radical political gesture and assocuate it with the BLM protests of last summer and the initial response to George Floyd
- some think footballers should not lecture fans and sports and politics don't mix
- others are probably trolls loving the reaction

Sympathy with the middle two reasons listed, even if I personally wouldnt boo
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I struggle to have sympathy with points two and three to be honest. Anyone that takes it upon themselves to interpret the actions of someone else as a political gesture (even when the people doing it have said it isn’t) and then subsequently gets offended by it may as well just be calling themselves a tw@t in the mirror.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I disagree.

I think the actions are clearly political, and this is not really relevant to how they have morphed into a generic stance against equality.

The gesture followed George Floyd, was inspired by activism in the US, and was initially labelled under BLM - which is a radical stance whether you feel prepared to admit it or not.

I also don't like the idea of hyper privileged millionaires lecturing players and pretending meaning tweets written about them means they are oppressed and not among the luckiest human beings in the history of our entire species.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Except taking the knee predates BLM which sort of negates your entire point about it being initially labelled as it...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Taking the knee predates BLM and was then a political action in the civil rights movement, but it has since been used and popularised by BLM riots, Kaepernick and activism generally. To pretend otherwise is delusional.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

So we agree that it is used as a general anti-racist stance and is not actually affiliated with BLM. What point were you trying to make?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is so naive.

The BLM logo is everywhere so of course the two will be linked and no amount of pleading to the contrary will work until the logo disappears.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Everywhere? If you have to exaggerate to make your point then you don't have a point.

Do you advocate booing people who wear poppies because the poppy had been associated with far-roght racist groups?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Might as well boo the Union Jack as its used as symbol by far right white supremacists.

Often next to their username on social media.

comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 20 seconds ago
I don't watch my football on Sky so I don't see the BLM logo at all when I watch football.

Boo Sky for taking a stance, don't boo black players for making a stand against racism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes but its not all about you.

Lots of folk watch footie on Sky and some will inevitably see the BLM movement and the taking of the knee as interlinked.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Why’s that a bad thing though, it is linked?

You’re not talking about the movement, you’re conflating BLM as a movement with individual factions and political ideologies within it.

To ask a previous question, would you have protested against the civil rights movement on the sole basis you didn’t agree with the Black Panthers political viewpoint?

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Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by NPE ★★ (U22521)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 9 seconds ago
Yeah I thought that taking the knee was long before George Floyd.

As to whoever said players should just come off all social media, that's pretty much just victim blaming.

Rather than that, why don't we try to educate future generations better and show consequences for those who are racist online, rather than punishing those on the receiving end of it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Educate just means condition everyone to think like you want them to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, I want people to think other races should be treated equally. Why are you arguing against this so hard?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I am arguing against the idea people should be forced to clap along to far-left political statement based on critical race theory.

Cheers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Noone is asking anyone to clap, just not to boo?

So you should be arguing for education then!