comment by add912 (U9189)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 35 seconds ago
There’s a difference between opting not to take a knee and to actively booing players doing it.
The majority I’ve seen have said it’s due to the attachment to a faction of the BLM political movement. Ironic really that in associating it with that, it has led to them misinterpreting the intentions of the gesture by people too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But this is communications 101. It doesn't matter what the intention of the communication was, it is how it is received. The fact that there is booing suggests one of two things.
a) the fans are racist
b) the message has been corrupted along the way.
The fact that you see so many people post different answers to why people are booing suggests it is b.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is an element of some being told a belief or opinion they hold is incorrect and not wanting to/being unwilling to believe that and change their opinion.
You only have to look at the misinformation still being peddled about BLM, the organisation, their message and the conflation with a gesture against racism in football.
comment by Alisson Becker, Liverpool's Number 9 (U3979)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 57 minutes ago
comment by The Post Nearly Man Says Every Single One Of Us Loves Alex Ferguson (U1270)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 17 seconds ago
comment by sandy, Ryan Mason, worse ever Spurs manager (U20567)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by Sporty and Portly - LFC (U8531)
posted 19 minutes ago
Because taking the knee is linked to BLM. BLM clearly are a political organisation who have some pretty far left goals such as ending capitalism, ending the nuclear family, defunding the police, its all on the websites both in the UK and US. The founders of BLM are self avowed "trained marxists" so yeah, not something anyone should be supporting.
Ask yourself this. If the booing was racist why did the same fans always clap for the Kick it Out pre-game announcement - which is clearly a charity and not a political movement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense, taking the knee was out long before BLM was formed. It is purely a gesture aimed at the racists. Racists are hiding behind the political nonsense.
If I was the players, as soon as the slightest hint of booing started, I would just walk off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do people choose to ignore the political aspect to taking the knee? It just seems to be another reason to hit people over the head with the racist bollocks.
We only started taking the knee after what happened in the States. BLM are officially recognised as a political party. Most of their policies are disgraceful, unless you are of a certain political persuasion you wouldn't agree with them. Sky Sports and the Premier League decided to use a logo of a political party and still do.
It's nothing to do with racism. People just don't want to be preached to and talked down to after spending an arm and a leg to watch the footy.
That's my view.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you post some of their official policies that are disgraceful?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There an extreme political party.
Setting out to disrupt the Western prescribed nuclear family unit for a start. What a most of us want in life. A wife and kids. I don't think many would want to be associated with that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just post the link where they say that instead of interpreting what you think they mean.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Search on Google for their original values. It's all there. They've had a clean up of their website recently. Let's face it, it's not a good look.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. You have claimed a specific claim. Provide evidence of this claim, and show us how you have reached the conclusion that they want to stop people being married and having a family.
I suggest your claim is nonsense and (at best) is based on a lack of understanding.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The exact phrasing has already been copy and pasted into this thread but here it is again...
Black Villages: We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure
requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one
another, and especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are
comfortable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That sounds political to me. Each to their own.
players don't give a f*ck about the political implications
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How the feck do you know?
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 minute ago
There’s a difference between opting not to take a knee and to actively booing players doing it.
The majority I’ve seen have said it’s due to the attachment to a faction of the BLM political movement. Ironic really that in associating it with that, it has led to them misinterpreting the intentions of the gesture by people too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think people can be forgiven to see the association. Why are Sky and certain clubs still using the BLM organisation logo?
I don't agree with their politics and I don't agree with their gesture. It's pretty simple. For the record I won't boo the team. It's obviously counter productive and will only end one way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which organisation logo? There’s multiple facets and organisations trying to attaching themselves to it but ultimately it’s a movement, there is no centralised organisation. People can interpret an individual organisation trying to link itself to it as indicative of everyone’s motivations within the entire movement, but I’d argue that’s ignorance on those peoples parts as much as it is about anything else. Well in the general populace at least, there’s others that have pushed it for worse motivations I’m sure.
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 25 minutes ago
As far as I'm aware, although the gesture was taken from US sports the FA were pretty careful to disassociate the act from BLM at the start as it was triggered by racism going on online rather than stuff in the states.
The ones booing it seem to be the majority of the ones who are making it political and bringing BLM into it, which I'd imagine is mostly a veil to make grey area where they can be racist with justification, while stringing along some idiots who genuinely believe they're in the right.
I understand some players like Zaha feel the gesture is meaningless and some don't want to be associated with BLM, which is their right, but it seems like the feeling among the players is simply one of showing solidarity against racism and some players are either a little off the wavelength of others or just don't want a pity party because they cope in different ways, which is fine.
As a white man I know that if a co-worker asked me to make a small gesture like this to show I'm against racism I'd be happy to oblige as it's not for me to make decisions about how they should cope with these things going on, let alone boo them for it.
I honestly can't imagine how unfulfilled these peoples lives must be if they carry so much anger and resentment around regarding things that shouldn't really involve them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is it. All the claims that the message has been lost and so a new one is needed are ignoring the pertinent point that the reason they feel the message has been "lost" is because people who don't like the anti-racism message go out of their way to tenuous conflate the message with other things that are easier to get people to be against.
Taking the knee has not official affiliation with BLM. BLM is also not a political party. Taking the knee has no Marxist connections any more than wearing a poppy makes someone someone member if the EDL. Yet some people (Inc the mail etc) have managed to link taking the knee with Marxism so that they can be against it without having to openly admit that it's the ant-racism message they don't like.
Good thing about threads like this is you don't need to work people out, it's all there on the page.
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Alisson Becker, Liverpool's Number 9 (U3979)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 57 minutes ago
comment by The Post Nearly Man Says Every Single One Of Us Loves Alex Ferguson (U1270)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 17 seconds ago
comment by sandy, Ryan Mason, worse ever Spurs manager (U20567)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by Sporty and Portly - LFC (U8531)
posted 19 minutes ago
Because taking the knee is linked to BLM. BLM clearly are a political organisation who have some pretty far left goals such as ending capitalism, ending the nuclear family, defunding the police, its all on the websites both in the UK and US. The founders of BLM are self avowed "trained marxists" so yeah, not something anyone should be supporting.
Ask yourself this. If the booing was racist why did the same fans always clap for the Kick it Out pre-game announcement - which is clearly a charity and not a political movement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense, taking the knee was out long before BLM was formed. It is purely a gesture aimed at the racists. Racists are hiding behind the political nonsense.
If I was the players, as soon as the slightest hint of booing started, I would just walk off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do people choose to ignore the political aspect to taking the knee? It just seems to be another reason to hit people over the head with the racist bollocks.
We only started taking the knee after what happened in the States. BLM are officially recognised as a political party. Most of their policies are disgraceful, unless you are of a certain political persuasion you wouldn't agree with them. Sky Sports and the Premier League decided to use a logo of a political party and still do.
It's nothing to do with racism. People just don't want to be preached to and talked down to after spending an arm and a leg to watch the footy.
That's my view.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you post some of their official policies that are disgraceful?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There an extreme political party.
Setting out to disrupt the Western prescribed nuclear family unit for a start. What a most of us want in life. A wife and kids. I don't think many would want to be associated with that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just post the link where they say that instead of interpreting what you think they mean.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Search on Google for their original values. It's all there. They've had a clean up of their website recently. Let's face it, it's not a good look.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. You have claimed a specific claim. Provide evidence of this claim, and show us how you have reached the conclusion that they want to stop people being married and having a family.
I suggest your claim is nonsense and (at best) is based on a lack of understanding.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The exact phrasing has already been copy and pasted into this thread but here it is again...
Black Villages: We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure
requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one
another, and especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are
comfortable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That sounds political to me. Each to their own.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, what you suggested was that they wanted wanted stop people having wives and kids.
The only possible way you could have got that interpretation is by cutting off the statement mid sentence, before the word "requirement". If you read the whole thing it is incredibly clear that they want to move the requirement of the nuclear family structure so that people who aren't part of that structure (single parent families, orphans, gay families) are able to be "supported" as part of an extended family. This is an inclusive and welcoming statement to people who have traditionally been unwelcome or ostracised.
If a club requires you wear shoes and then disrupts that requirement, it isn't trying to destroy shoes, it's opening its doors to people who want to wear trainers as well as shoes.
Yet this message was willfully misinterpreted to create a boogeyman so that people could vilify the BLM movement for trying to break up families (falsely) so that they could turn people against BLM without having to admit its because of the anti-racist message.
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 15 minutes ago
The scenes
“ We all know the answer to that, let’s see how he squirms out of this question…”
Sorry to disappoint. I know you thought it was a gotcha moment but you got all excited for nothing in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually when a grown man resorts to using emojis that’s a sign they’ve backed themselves into a corner…
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 25 minutes ago
As far as I'm aware, although the gesture was taken from US sports the FA were pretty careful to disassociate the act from BLM at the start as it was triggered by racism going on online rather than stuff in the states.
The ones booing it seem to be the majority of the ones who are making it political and bringing BLM into it, which I'd imagine is mostly a veil to make grey area where they can be racist with justification, while stringing along some idiots who genuinely believe they're in the right.
I understand some players like Zaha feel the gesture is meaningless and some don't want to be associated with BLM, which is their right, but it seems like the feeling among the players is simply one of showing solidarity against racism and some players are either a little off the wavelength of others or just don't want a pity party because they cope in different ways, which is fine.
As a white man I know that if a co-worker asked me to make a small gesture like this to show I'm against racism I'd be happy to oblige as it's not for me to make decisions about how they should cope with these things going on, let alone boo them for it.
I honestly can't imagine how unfulfilled these peoples lives must be if they carry so much anger and resentment around regarding things that shouldn't really involve them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is it. All the claims that the message has been lost and so a new one is needed are ignoring the pertinent point that the reason they feel the message has been "lost" is because people who don't like the anti-racism message go out of their way to tenuous conflate the message with other things that are easier to get people to be against.
Taking the knee has not official affiliation with BLM. BLM is also not a political party. Taking the knee has no Marxist connections any more than wearing a poppy makes someone someone member if the EDL. Yet some people (Inc the mail etc) have managed to link taking the knee with Marxism so that they can be against it without having to openly admit that it's the ant-racism message they don't like.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I take it you are aware that the co founder of BLM has quite openly stated that she is a trained Marxist?
Well however it started out, it’s certainly getting noticed now because the media are obsessing over it, it’s getting maximum attention
comment by Alisson Becker, Liverpool's Number 9 (U3979)
posted 12 minutes ago
For the record welshpoolfan I'm just the messenger I think people have clung onto that idea when in reality it's not quite the ridiculous message it's being made out to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, and I appreciate that you have provided the text. The point I was making (see my above post) is that it has very little relation to the message that South Side was claiming and that such misinformation is dangerous because it unfairly vilifies groups.
Would you have protested against the civil rights movement South Side?
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 25 minutes ago
As far as I'm aware, although the gesture was taken from US sports the FA were pretty careful to disassociate the act from BLM at the start as it was triggered by racism going on online rather than stuff in the states.
The ones booing it seem to be the majority of the ones who are making it political and bringing BLM into it, which I'd imagine is mostly a veil to make grey area where they can be racist with justification, while stringing along some idiots who genuinely believe they're in the right.
I understand some players like Zaha feel the gesture is meaningless and some don't want to be associated with BLM, which is their right, but it seems like the feeling among the players is simply one of showing solidarity against racism and some players are either a little off the wavelength of others or just don't want a pity party because they cope in different ways, which is fine.
As a white man I know that if a co-worker asked me to make a small gesture like this to show I'm against racism I'd be happy to oblige as it's not for me to make decisions about how they should cope with these things going on, let alone boo them for it.
I honestly can't imagine how unfulfilled these peoples lives must be if they carry so much anger and resentment around regarding things that shouldn't really involve them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is it. All the claims that the message has been lost and so a new one is needed are ignoring the pertinent point that the reason they feel the message has been "lost" is because people who don't like the anti-racism message go out of their way to tenuous conflate the message with other things that are easier to get people to be against.
Taking the knee has not official affiliation with BLM. BLM is also not a political party. Taking the knee has no Marxist connections any more than wearing a poppy makes someone someone member if the EDL. Yet some people (Inc the mail etc) have managed to link taking the knee with Marxism so that they can be against it without having to openly admit that it's the ant-racism message they don't like.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I take it you are aware that the co founder of BLM has quite openly stated that she is a trained Marxist?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So what? I've openly stated that I'm a Liverpool fan. That doesn't make any organisation that I'm part of automatically part of Liverpool FC.
I notice that you didn't actually address the fact that you seem to have completely misinterpreted a statement.
comment by The scenes (U22442)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 15 minutes ago
The scenes
“ We all know the answer to that, let’s see how he squirms out of this question…”
Sorry to disappoint. I know you thought it was a gotcha moment but you got all excited for nothing in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually when a grown man resorts to using emojis that’s a sign they’ve backed themselves into a corner…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Erm ok then. Sorry Dad?
Is that what I say here?
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
Would you have protested against the civil rights movement South Side?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You'd have had the arguments after the first couple of weeks after Rosa Parks that they'd made their point and they need to stop banging on about it.
Oh, and everyone's civil rights are important, not just black people's.
I take it you are aware that the co founder of BLM has quite openly stated that she is a trained Marxist
___________
Completely missing the point and ignoring most of the post to flip it around and concentrate on one detail, that is irrelevant.
Classic.
Sometimes the mental gymnastics is baffling. If only that power could be used for something productive
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by The scenes (U22442)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 15 minutes ago
The scenes
“ We all know the answer to that, let’s see how he squirms out of this question…”
Sorry to disappoint. I know you thought it was a gotcha moment but you got all excited for nothing in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually when a grown man resorts to using emojis that’s a sign they’ve backed themselves into a corner…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Erm ok then. Sorry Dad?
Is that what I say here?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rather strange response to being shown up but hey ho
comment by The scenes (U22442)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by The scenes (U22442)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 15 minutes ago
The scenes
“ We all know the answer to that, let’s see how he squirms out of this question…”
Sorry to disappoint. I know you thought it was a gotcha moment but you got all excited for nothing in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually when a grown man resorts to using emojis that’s a sign they’ve backed themselves into a corner…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Erm ok then. Sorry Dad?
Is that what I say here?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rather strange response to being shown up but hey ho
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What are you on about now?
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 2 minutes ago
I take it you are aware that the co founder of BLM has quite openly stated that she is a trained Marxist
___________
Completely missing the point and ignoring most of the post to flip it around and concentrate on one detail, that is irrelevant.
Classic.
Sometimes the mental gymnastics is baffling. If only that power could be used for something productive
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people don't want politics in football. It's as simple as that. Fans have got a right to show it if they feel they need to.
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 2 minutes ago
I take it you are aware that the co founder of BLM has quite openly stated that she is a trained Marxist
___________
Completely missing the point and ignoring most of the post to flip it around and concentrate on one detail, that is irrelevant.
Classic.
Sometimes the mental gymnastics is baffling. If only that power could be used for something productive
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people don't want politics in football. It's as simple as that. Fans have got a right to show it if they feel they need to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, if fans feel they need to then they have the right to show they are against anti-racism.
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 2 minutes ago
I take it you are aware that the co founder of BLM has quite openly stated that she is a trained Marxist
___________
Completely missing the point and ignoring most of the post to flip it around and concentrate on one detail, that is irrelevant.
Classic.
Sometimes the mental gymnastics is baffling. If only that power could be used for something productive
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people don't want politics in football. It's as simple as that. Fans have got a right to show it if they feel they need to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This wasn't intended as a political message though, I support the taking of the knee but that doesn't mean I have any opinion on BLM.
The only people who are claiming it is seem to be those who are opposing it, using it as a way to spout their anti-Marxist stuff when it's irrelevant.
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 2 minutes ago
I take it you are aware that the co founder of BLM has quite openly stated that she is a trained Marxist
___________
Completely missing the point and ignoring most of the post to flip it around and concentrate on one detail, that is irrelevant.
Classic.
Sometimes the mental gymnastics is baffling. If only that power could be used for something productive
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people don't want politics in football. It's as simple as that. Fans have got a right to show it if they feel they need to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And there’s the crux of it.
The key question then is what’s the most political act? A faction of people using the Black Lives Matter movement to try and advance their own political ideologies (but not actually setting up a party) or people that think the entire movement should be denounced because of the views of that faction within it and assuming that’s shared by everyone?
I’ll ask again, would you have protested against the civil rights movement?
This was discussed on the radio earlier. Surely they simplest solution is for the Kick it Out campaign to associate itself with the knee.
The message then becomes clear. We kneel to “kick it out” of football
This entire thread has been utterly ridiculous
It's a futile act of ritualistic tokenism and whilst there will no doubt be anti-BLM people booing, I'd imagine most people are bored of seeing powerful people pretending to do something when they could do something that actually makes a difference.
When was the last time Kick it Out actually did anything? If it wasn't for adverts at the start of Football Manager I wouldn't be aware they still existed
Sign in if you want to comment
Why the boos at the England matches?
Page 5 of 43
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
posted on 7/6/21
comment by add912 (U9189)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 35 seconds ago
There’s a difference between opting not to take a knee and to actively booing players doing it.
The majority I’ve seen have said it’s due to the attachment to a faction of the BLM political movement. Ironic really that in associating it with that, it has led to them misinterpreting the intentions of the gesture by people too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But this is communications 101. It doesn't matter what the intention of the communication was, it is how it is received. The fact that there is booing suggests one of two things.
a) the fans are racist
b) the message has been corrupted along the way.
The fact that you see so many people post different answers to why people are booing suggests it is b.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is an element of some being told a belief or opinion they hold is incorrect and not wanting to/being unwilling to believe that and change their opinion.
You only have to look at the misinformation still being peddled about BLM, the organisation, their message and the conflation with a gesture against racism in football.
posted on 7/6/21
comment by Alisson Becker, Liverpool's Number 9 (U3979)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 57 minutes ago
comment by The Post Nearly Man Says Every Single One Of Us Loves Alex Ferguson (U1270)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 17 seconds ago
comment by sandy, Ryan Mason, worse ever Spurs manager (U20567)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by Sporty and Portly - LFC (U8531)
posted 19 minutes ago
Because taking the knee is linked to BLM. BLM clearly are a political organisation who have some pretty far left goals such as ending capitalism, ending the nuclear family, defunding the police, its all on the websites both in the UK and US. The founders of BLM are self avowed "trained marxists" so yeah, not something anyone should be supporting.
Ask yourself this. If the booing was racist why did the same fans always clap for the Kick it Out pre-game announcement - which is clearly a charity and not a political movement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense, taking the knee was out long before BLM was formed. It is purely a gesture aimed at the racists. Racists are hiding behind the political nonsense.
If I was the players, as soon as the slightest hint of booing started, I would just walk off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do people choose to ignore the political aspect to taking the knee? It just seems to be another reason to hit people over the head with the racist bollocks.
We only started taking the knee after what happened in the States. BLM are officially recognised as a political party. Most of their policies are disgraceful, unless you are of a certain political persuasion you wouldn't agree with them. Sky Sports and the Premier League decided to use a logo of a political party and still do.
It's nothing to do with racism. People just don't want to be preached to and talked down to after spending an arm and a leg to watch the footy.
That's my view.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you post some of their official policies that are disgraceful?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There an extreme political party.
Setting out to disrupt the Western prescribed nuclear family unit for a start. What a most of us want in life. A wife and kids. I don't think many would want to be associated with that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just post the link where they say that instead of interpreting what you think they mean.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Search on Google for their original values. It's all there. They've had a clean up of their website recently. Let's face it, it's not a good look.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. You have claimed a specific claim. Provide evidence of this claim, and show us how you have reached the conclusion that they want to stop people being married and having a family.
I suggest your claim is nonsense and (at best) is based on a lack of understanding.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The exact phrasing has already been copy and pasted into this thread but here it is again...
Black Villages: We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure
requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one
another, and especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are
comfortable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That sounds political to me. Each to their own.
posted on 7/6/21
players don't give a f*ck about the political implications
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How the feck do you know?
posted on 7/6/21
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 minute ago
There’s a difference between opting not to take a knee and to actively booing players doing it.
The majority I’ve seen have said it’s due to the attachment to a faction of the BLM political movement. Ironic really that in associating it with that, it has led to them misinterpreting the intentions of the gesture by people too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think people can be forgiven to see the association. Why are Sky and certain clubs still using the BLM organisation logo?
I don't agree with their politics and I don't agree with their gesture. It's pretty simple. For the record I won't boo the team. It's obviously counter productive and will only end one way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which organisation logo? There’s multiple facets and organisations trying to attaching themselves to it but ultimately it’s a movement, there is no centralised organisation. People can interpret an individual organisation trying to link itself to it as indicative of everyone’s motivations within the entire movement, but I’d argue that’s ignorance on those peoples parts as much as it is about anything else. Well in the general populace at least, there’s others that have pushed it for worse motivations I’m sure.
posted on 7/6/21
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 25 minutes ago
As far as I'm aware, although the gesture was taken from US sports the FA were pretty careful to disassociate the act from BLM at the start as it was triggered by racism going on online rather than stuff in the states.
The ones booing it seem to be the majority of the ones who are making it political and bringing BLM into it, which I'd imagine is mostly a veil to make grey area where they can be racist with justification, while stringing along some idiots who genuinely believe they're in the right.
I understand some players like Zaha feel the gesture is meaningless and some don't want to be associated with BLM, which is their right, but it seems like the feeling among the players is simply one of showing solidarity against racism and some players are either a little off the wavelength of others or just don't want a pity party because they cope in different ways, which is fine.
As a white man I know that if a co-worker asked me to make a small gesture like this to show I'm against racism I'd be happy to oblige as it's not for me to make decisions about how they should cope with these things going on, let alone boo them for it.
I honestly can't imagine how unfulfilled these peoples lives must be if they carry so much anger and resentment around regarding things that shouldn't really involve them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is it. All the claims that the message has been lost and so a new one is needed are ignoring the pertinent point that the reason they feel the message has been "lost" is because people who don't like the anti-racism message go out of their way to tenuous conflate the message with other things that are easier to get people to be against.
Taking the knee has not official affiliation with BLM. BLM is also not a political party. Taking the knee has no Marxist connections any more than wearing a poppy makes someone someone member if the EDL. Yet some people (Inc the mail etc) have managed to link taking the knee with Marxism so that they can be against it without having to openly admit that it's the ant-racism message they don't like.
posted on 7/6/21
Good thing about threads like this is you don't need to work people out, it's all there on the page.
posted on 7/6/21
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Alisson Becker, Liverpool's Number 9 (U3979)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 57 minutes ago
comment by The Post Nearly Man Says Every Single One Of Us Loves Alex Ferguson (U1270)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 17 seconds ago
comment by sandy, Ryan Mason, worse ever Spurs manager (U20567)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by Sporty and Portly - LFC (U8531)
posted 19 minutes ago
Because taking the knee is linked to BLM. BLM clearly are a political organisation who have some pretty far left goals such as ending capitalism, ending the nuclear family, defunding the police, its all on the websites both in the UK and US. The founders of BLM are self avowed "trained marxists" so yeah, not something anyone should be supporting.
Ask yourself this. If the booing was racist why did the same fans always clap for the Kick it Out pre-game announcement - which is clearly a charity and not a political movement?
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Nonsense, taking the knee was out long before BLM was formed. It is purely a gesture aimed at the racists. Racists are hiding behind the political nonsense.
If I was the players, as soon as the slightest hint of booing started, I would just walk off.
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Why do people choose to ignore the political aspect to taking the knee? It just seems to be another reason to hit people over the head with the racist bollocks.
We only started taking the knee after what happened in the States. BLM are officially recognised as a political party. Most of their policies are disgraceful, unless you are of a certain political persuasion you wouldn't agree with them. Sky Sports and the Premier League decided to use a logo of a political party and still do.
It's nothing to do with racism. People just don't want to be preached to and talked down to after spending an arm and a leg to watch the footy.
That's my view.
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Can you post some of their official policies that are disgraceful?
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There an extreme political party.
Setting out to disrupt the Western prescribed nuclear family unit for a start. What a most of us want in life. A wife and kids. I don't think many would want to be associated with that.
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Just post the link where they say that instead of interpreting what you think they mean.
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Search on Google for their original values. It's all there. They've had a clean up of their website recently. Let's face it, it's not a good look.
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No. You have claimed a specific claim. Provide evidence of this claim, and show us how you have reached the conclusion that they want to stop people being married and having a family.
I suggest your claim is nonsense and (at best) is based on a lack of understanding.
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The exact phrasing has already been copy and pasted into this thread but here it is again...
Black Villages: We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure
requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one
another, and especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are
comfortable.
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That sounds political to me. Each to their own.
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No, what you suggested was that they wanted wanted stop people having wives and kids.
The only possible way you could have got that interpretation is by cutting off the statement mid sentence, before the word "requirement". If you read the whole thing it is incredibly clear that they want to move the requirement of the nuclear family structure so that people who aren't part of that structure (single parent families, orphans, gay families) are able to be "supported" as part of an extended family. This is an inclusive and welcoming statement to people who have traditionally been unwelcome or ostracised.
If a club requires you wear shoes and then disrupts that requirement, it isn't trying to destroy shoes, it's opening its doors to people who want to wear trainers as well as shoes.
Yet this message was willfully misinterpreted to create a boogeyman so that people could vilify the BLM movement for trying to break up families (falsely) so that they could turn people against BLM without having to admit its because of the anti-racist message.
posted on 7/6/21
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 15 minutes ago
The scenes
“ We all know the answer to that, let’s see how he squirms out of this question…”
Sorry to disappoint. I know you thought it was a gotcha moment but you got all excited for nothing in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually when a grown man resorts to using emojis that’s a sign they’ve backed themselves into a corner…
posted on 7/6/21
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 25 minutes ago
As far as I'm aware, although the gesture was taken from US sports the FA were pretty careful to disassociate the act from BLM at the start as it was triggered by racism going on online rather than stuff in the states.
The ones booing it seem to be the majority of the ones who are making it political and bringing BLM into it, which I'd imagine is mostly a veil to make grey area where they can be racist with justification, while stringing along some idiots who genuinely believe they're in the right.
I understand some players like Zaha feel the gesture is meaningless and some don't want to be associated with BLM, which is their right, but it seems like the feeling among the players is simply one of showing solidarity against racism and some players are either a little off the wavelength of others or just don't want a pity party because they cope in different ways, which is fine.
As a white man I know that if a co-worker asked me to make a small gesture like this to show I'm against racism I'd be happy to oblige as it's not for me to make decisions about how they should cope with these things going on, let alone boo them for it.
I honestly can't imagine how unfulfilled these peoples lives must be if they carry so much anger and resentment around regarding things that shouldn't really involve them.
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This is it. All the claims that the message has been lost and so a new one is needed are ignoring the pertinent point that the reason they feel the message has been "lost" is because people who don't like the anti-racism message go out of their way to tenuous conflate the message with other things that are easier to get people to be against.
Taking the knee has not official affiliation with BLM. BLM is also not a political party. Taking the knee has no Marxist connections any more than wearing a poppy makes someone someone member if the EDL. Yet some people (Inc the mail etc) have managed to link taking the knee with Marxism so that they can be against it without having to openly admit that it's the ant-racism message they don't like.
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I take it you are aware that the co founder of BLM has quite openly stated that she is a trained Marxist?
posted on 7/6/21
Well however it started out, it’s certainly getting noticed now because the media are obsessing over it, it’s getting maximum attention
posted on 7/6/21
comment by Alisson Becker, Liverpool's Number 9 (U3979)
posted 12 minutes ago
For the record welshpoolfan I'm just the messenger I think people have clung onto that idea when in reality it's not quite the ridiculous message it's being made out to be.
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I agree, and I appreciate that you have provided the text. The point I was making (see my above post) is that it has very little relation to the message that South Side was claiming and that such misinformation is dangerous because it unfairly vilifies groups.
posted on 7/6/21
Would you have protested against the civil rights movement South Side?
posted on 7/6/21
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 25 minutes ago
As far as I'm aware, although the gesture was taken from US sports the FA were pretty careful to disassociate the act from BLM at the start as it was triggered by racism going on online rather than stuff in the states.
The ones booing it seem to be the majority of the ones who are making it political and bringing BLM into it, which I'd imagine is mostly a veil to make grey area where they can be racist with justification, while stringing along some idiots who genuinely believe they're in the right.
I understand some players like Zaha feel the gesture is meaningless and some don't want to be associated with BLM, which is their right, but it seems like the feeling among the players is simply one of showing solidarity against racism and some players are either a little off the wavelength of others or just don't want a pity party because they cope in different ways, which is fine.
As a white man I know that if a co-worker asked me to make a small gesture like this to show I'm against racism I'd be happy to oblige as it's not for me to make decisions about how they should cope with these things going on, let alone boo them for it.
I honestly can't imagine how unfulfilled these peoples lives must be if they carry so much anger and resentment around regarding things that shouldn't really involve them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is it. All the claims that the message has been lost and so a new one is needed are ignoring the pertinent point that the reason they feel the message has been "lost" is because people who don't like the anti-racism message go out of their way to tenuous conflate the message with other things that are easier to get people to be against.
Taking the knee has not official affiliation with BLM. BLM is also not a political party. Taking the knee has no Marxist connections any more than wearing a poppy makes someone someone member if the EDL. Yet some people (Inc the mail etc) have managed to link taking the knee with Marxism so that they can be against it without having to openly admit that it's the ant-racism message they don't like.
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I take it you are aware that the co founder of BLM has quite openly stated that she is a trained Marxist?
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So what? I've openly stated that I'm a Liverpool fan. That doesn't make any organisation that I'm part of automatically part of Liverpool FC.
I notice that you didn't actually address the fact that you seem to have completely misinterpreted a statement.
posted on 7/6/21
comment by The scenes (U22442)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 15 minutes ago
The scenes
“ We all know the answer to that, let’s see how he squirms out of this question…”
Sorry to disappoint. I know you thought it was a gotcha moment but you got all excited for nothing in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually when a grown man resorts to using emojis that’s a sign they’ve backed themselves into a corner…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Erm ok then. Sorry Dad?
Is that what I say here?
posted on 7/6/21
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
Would you have protested against the civil rights movement South Side?
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You'd have had the arguments after the first couple of weeks after Rosa Parks that they'd made their point and they need to stop banging on about it.
Oh, and everyone's civil rights are important, not just black people's.
posted on 7/6/21
I take it you are aware that the co founder of BLM has quite openly stated that she is a trained Marxist
___________
Completely missing the point and ignoring most of the post to flip it around and concentrate on one detail, that is irrelevant.
Classic.
Sometimes the mental gymnastics is baffling. If only that power could be used for something productive
posted on 7/6/21
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by The scenes (U22442)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 15 minutes ago
The scenes
“ We all know the answer to that, let’s see how he squirms out of this question…”
Sorry to disappoint. I know you thought it was a gotcha moment but you got all excited for nothing in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually when a grown man resorts to using emojis that’s a sign they’ve backed themselves into a corner…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Erm ok then. Sorry Dad?
Is that what I say here?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rather strange response to being shown up but hey ho
posted on 7/6/21
comment by The scenes (U22442)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by The scenes (U22442)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 15 minutes ago
The scenes
“ We all know the answer to that, let’s see how he squirms out of this question…”
Sorry to disappoint. I know you thought it was a gotcha moment but you got all excited for nothing in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually when a grown man resorts to using emojis that’s a sign they’ve backed themselves into a corner…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Erm ok then. Sorry Dad?
Is that what I say here?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rather strange response to being shown up but hey ho
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What are you on about now?
posted on 7/6/21
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 2 minutes ago
I take it you are aware that the co founder of BLM has quite openly stated that she is a trained Marxist
___________
Completely missing the point and ignoring most of the post to flip it around and concentrate on one detail, that is irrelevant.
Classic.
Sometimes the mental gymnastics is baffling. If only that power could be used for something productive
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people don't want politics in football. It's as simple as that. Fans have got a right to show it if they feel they need to.
posted on 7/6/21
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 2 minutes ago
I take it you are aware that the co founder of BLM has quite openly stated that she is a trained Marxist
___________
Completely missing the point and ignoring most of the post to flip it around and concentrate on one detail, that is irrelevant.
Classic.
Sometimes the mental gymnastics is baffling. If only that power could be used for something productive
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people don't want politics in football. It's as simple as that. Fans have got a right to show it if they feel they need to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, if fans feel they need to then they have the right to show they are against anti-racism.
posted on 7/6/21
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 2 minutes ago
I take it you are aware that the co founder of BLM has quite openly stated that she is a trained Marxist
___________
Completely missing the point and ignoring most of the post to flip it around and concentrate on one detail, that is irrelevant.
Classic.
Sometimes the mental gymnastics is baffling. If only that power could be used for something productive
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people don't want politics in football. It's as simple as that. Fans have got a right to show it if they feel they need to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This wasn't intended as a political message though, I support the taking of the knee but that doesn't mean I have any opinion on BLM.
The only people who are claiming it is seem to be those who are opposing it, using it as a way to spout their anti-Marxist stuff when it's irrelevant.
posted on 7/6/21
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 2 minutes ago
I take it you are aware that the co founder of BLM has quite openly stated that she is a trained Marxist
___________
Completely missing the point and ignoring most of the post to flip it around and concentrate on one detail, that is irrelevant.
Classic.
Sometimes the mental gymnastics is baffling. If only that power could be used for something productive
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people don't want politics in football. It's as simple as that. Fans have got a right to show it if they feel they need to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And there’s the crux of it.
The key question then is what’s the most political act? A faction of people using the Black Lives Matter movement to try and advance their own political ideologies (but not actually setting up a party) or people that think the entire movement should be denounced because of the views of that faction within it and assuming that’s shared by everyone?
I’ll ask again, would you have protested against the civil rights movement?
posted on 7/6/21
This was discussed on the radio earlier. Surely they simplest solution is for the Kick it Out campaign to associate itself with the knee.
The message then becomes clear. We kneel to “kick it out” of football
posted on 7/6/21
This entire thread has been utterly ridiculous
It's a futile act of ritualistic tokenism and whilst there will no doubt be anti-BLM people booing, I'd imagine most people are bored of seeing powerful people pretending to do something when they could do something that actually makes a difference.
posted on 7/6/21
When was the last time Kick it Out actually did anything? If it wasn't for adverts at the start of Football Manager I wouldn't be aware they still existed
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