The report does not exonerate the actions of some Liverpool fans on that day. What it says is there was a failure by the FA in the first instance in awarding the tie at Hillsborough when there were questions over the safety certification and a failure of SYP to properly control the situation at the Leppings Lane end. It also highlights the cover up by SYP to deny this failure.
If we look at the hypothetical scenario of say the tie had been Nottm Forest vs Everton. Does anyone think that the same tragedy would have occurred? If your answer is no then by inference you must say that some of the fault lay with Liverpool fans on that day.
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Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Rev, drunken people at a football match. Fans turning up without tickets. Were they really such unusual occurrences? If they were the root causes there would have been a tragedy every week.
666. yes, she did. But she clearly had no interest in the truth being revealed. The same applies to Jack Straw and his judicial review.
So, in effect, your complete faith in the latest version of events is down to trust in the people telling you?
The Liverpool fan, the Bishop of Liverpool and an anti-establishment lawyer, to name but three of the authors?
Hmm.
The report does not exonerate the actions of some Liverpool fans on that day.
=======================================
I think you'll find it does exonerate the actions of all Liverpool fans, in regard to the direct cause of 96 people losing their lives.
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As the Admins are now censoring opinion irrespective of how valid it may be or personally unoffensive, I'll leave you all to it
Why did they all choose to congregate in the 2 central pens rather than disperse into all 4? Why were the outside pens half empty if it was all the fault of drunken opportunists. Were these pens not open to drunken opportunists? Or is the real problem that the whole terrace was nowhere near full but that organisational failings led to most fans being funneled into a small section of the available space?
'Fact is, '
==========================
We have had the facts.
You dont like them, so have come up with your own.
What a scarily shameless little individual you are.
Your family have my sympathy.
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Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Rev, no, I wasn't there. I believe what you are telling me but in those days it wasn't unusual.
You are arguing counter to the received wisdom and yet I'm the one who's just debating for the hell of it? Can you elaborate on that?
In all honesty you'll come up with any scenario to back to up point or divert attention away from the reality
-----------------------------------
What scenario have I 'come up with'? Do you deny that the crush only occurred in 2 of the 4 pens and that the other 2 were only half full?
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The crush happened in the middle pens. the pics are horrific. However, there were plenty of people in the outside pens as far as I could see from the pics I've seen today
Rev, it has been stated clearly that the number of fans in the Leppings lane end approximately matched the number of tickets sold. Where were all the thousands of ticketless fans who you claim caused the problem? Maybe all the fans with tickets were outside and couldn't get in because the place was full of ticketless fans. Can you prove this? If not, how does your claim that there were thousands of ticketless fans OUTSIDE the ground prove your claim that liverpool fans were to blame for what happened inside the ground.
I wasn't there so I cannot know whether some fans caused the tragedy. However, yesterday, people such as the PM and the Chief constable of SY were queuing up to absolve the liverpool fans of any blame. You are trying to argue otherwise. I believe, based on the evidence I have heard that you are wrong.
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Rev
Not really sure laughing and doh smileys are particularly necessary or wanted on a thread such as this tbf
Rev, I'm glad you're amused. I was starting to worry about you.
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As a season ticket holder I managed all our semis and finals from the 1978 LC final to 1992 final including Europe. I queued round the block in all weathers. I doubt that I would of gone without a ticket but I was never in that position.
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Hillsborough .... Truth.... Now justice??
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posted on 13/9/12
The report does not exonerate the actions of some Liverpool fans on that day. What it says is there was a failure by the FA in the first instance in awarding the tie at Hillsborough when there were questions over the safety certification and a failure of SYP to properly control the situation at the Leppings Lane end. It also highlights the cover up by SYP to deny this failure.
If we look at the hypothetical scenario of say the tie had been Nottm Forest vs Everton. Does anyone think that the same tragedy would have occurred? If your answer is no then by inference you must say that some of the fault lay with Liverpool fans on that day.
posted on 13/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/9/12
Rev, drunken people at a football match. Fans turning up without tickets. Were they really such unusual occurrences? If they were the root causes there would have been a tragedy every week.
posted on 13/9/12
666. yes, she did. But she clearly had no interest in the truth being revealed. The same applies to Jack Straw and his judicial review.
posted on 13/9/12
So, in effect, your complete faith in the latest version of events is down to trust in the people telling you?
The Liverpool fan, the Bishop of Liverpool and an anti-establishment lawyer, to name but three of the authors?
Hmm.
posted on 13/9/12
The report does not exonerate the actions of some Liverpool fans on that day.
=======================================
I think you'll find it does exonerate the actions of all Liverpool fans, in regard to the direct cause of 96 people losing their lives.
posted on 13/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/9/12
As the Admins are now censoring opinion irrespective of how valid it may be or personally unoffensive, I'll leave you all to it
posted on 13/9/12
Why did they all choose to congregate in the 2 central pens rather than disperse into all 4? Why were the outside pens half empty if it was all the fault of drunken opportunists. Were these pens not open to drunken opportunists? Or is the real problem that the whole terrace was nowhere near full but that organisational failings led to most fans being funneled into a small section of the available space?
posted on 13/9/12
'Fact is, '
==========================
We have had the facts.
You dont like them, so have come up with your own.
What a scarily shameless little individual you are.
Your family have my sympathy.
posted on 13/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/9/12
Rev, no, I wasn't there. I believe what you are telling me but in those days it wasn't unusual.
You are arguing counter to the received wisdom and yet I'm the one who's just debating for the hell of it? Can you elaborate on that?
posted on 13/9/12
In all honesty you'll come up with any scenario to back to up point or divert attention away from the reality
-----------------------------------
What scenario have I 'come up with'? Do you deny that the crush only occurred in 2 of the 4 pens and that the other 2 were only half full?
posted on 13/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/9/12
The crush happened in the middle pens. the pics are horrific. However, there were plenty of people in the outside pens as far as I could see from the pics I've seen today
posted on 13/9/12
Rev, it has been stated clearly that the number of fans in the Leppings lane end approximately matched the number of tickets sold. Where were all the thousands of ticketless fans who you claim caused the problem? Maybe all the fans with tickets were outside and couldn't get in because the place was full of ticketless fans. Can you prove this? If not, how does your claim that there were thousands of ticketless fans OUTSIDE the ground prove your claim that liverpool fans were to blame for what happened inside the ground.
I wasn't there so I cannot know whether some fans caused the tragedy. However, yesterday, people such as the PM and the Chief constable of SY were queuing up to absolve the liverpool fans of any blame. You are trying to argue otherwise. I believe, based on the evidence I have heard that you are wrong.
posted on 13/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/9/12
Rev
Not really sure laughing and doh smileys are particularly necessary or wanted on a thread such as this tbf
posted on 13/9/12
Rev, I'm glad you're amused. I was starting to worry about you.
posted on 13/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/9/12
As a season ticket holder I managed all our semis and finals from the 1978 LC final to 1992 final including Europe. I queued round the block in all weathers. I doubt that I would of gone without a ticket but I was never in that position.
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