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We are Forest lol... There has been times in the past, late 70's and the big games. Actually Liverpool and Everton games when standing. Our ground seems well equipped to cope nowadays. We do get tannoy messages and good communication if a kick off has to be delayed. Doesn't happen often though.
I do remember crowd congestion at a Coventry away game but that too was pre-Hillsborough.
As for ticketless fans. I'm sure we have some. But not on the scale of big clubs.
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I was listening I talksport and loads of fans were ringing saying that was a disaster waiting to happen...
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I can remember having to stand pitch side on a couple of occassions due to over crowding,pre animal cage days,can remember the odd person passing out but never any deaths.
If their is any blame to be pointed towards fans,it should be across the board and include the hooligans of every club. They forced clubs to have to pen us in cages.
First of all R.I.P to the 96 who lost their lives and heartfelt condolences to their families and friends whose lives changed forever on that fateful day. I have two teenage sons and I can't imagine taking them to a football game and never coming home.
I was on the Kop at Hillsborough in 1976 as a 15 yr old lad at our semi final against Man Utd when the crowd surged and I was crushed against a crash barrier and was taken out and watched the game from the side of the pitch and that was bad enough.
For what its worth and despite the findings of the disgusting cover up by SYP I think it would be naive to lay the blame solely at the door of SYP.
Maybe the FA should have chose a different venue as no doubt the terracing on the Leppings lane at Hillsborough did have a reputation for being dangerous at big matches.
The decision to open the outside gate, in hindsight was wrong but nevertheless I imagine with fans screaming outside in danger of getting crushed, it was made for the right reasons.
The next point is the stewards inside who were supposed to funnel fans to the outer pens. Faced with hundreds of fans surging towards them hell bent on seeing the game obviously lost control, but they were only human. Who would have been able to stop them and the fans wanted to get to see the game.
I have no evidence as to ticketless fans gaining access at the same time, but wouldn't be surprised if this did happen. Hardly crime of the century trying to watch your beloved team in a semi final. Did the fans who rushed the the gates in the first instance exacerbate the problem? Probably, but in the same circumstances I believe most football fans would have done exactly the same, trying to gain access so as not to miss the match.
Therefore my conclusion is that a number of factors contributed to the tragic event that unfolded.
As I said first off R.I.P. to the fans who lost their lives.
I was at Hillsborough, and for what it’s worth I’d add my condolences to the families and friends of those who died.
I find it hard to resist the suspicion that someone chose to make an example of football fans (and Liverpool in particular) after Heysel.
After the tragedy, the Guardian said that Liverpool police had warned S Yorkshire colleagues to expect large numbers of ticketless Liverpool fans. The previous year, such fans were filtered out before they reached the ground. Why was this tactic changed, and why was an experienced officer replaced by the hapless Duckenfield a month before the match? Even the latest report won’t answer this question.
I’m left with a clear impression of police withdrawing inside the stadium, expecting trouble from hordes of ticketless fans but washing their hands of the consequences.
Except that when push came to shove and a dangerous crush developed outside the ground, they opened a gate and sentenced to death many fans who’d arrived early and were trapped against the fence at the front of the stand. The consequences were so appalling that they tried to rewrite history to fit a script which blamed unruly fans.
Part-time:
Do you not believe that, having experienced first hand the effects of rushing into a contained area as at Heysel where, lest we forget, 33 Juventus fans and 6 Liverpool fans lost their lives only four years before Hillsborough, that perhaps Liverpool fans above all others would understand the potential for disaster that rushing and pushing could cause?
In no way mitigating the failures of the control measures and decision making of the authorities both before and during the disaster, but can we accept a report which apparently puts 100% of the blame on the authorities and absolves the Liverpool support entirely?
It doesn't sit well with me at all.
666
I agree that we've gone from one propaganda version to another, with the real truth somewhere in between.
I too would appreciate some hint from Liverpool fans that some of their ilk may have played some part in creating the tragedy, especially given events at Heysel and Istanbul.
But given the way the S Yorks police and the Sun shamefully tried to pin everything on them, it's hardly surprising that tribal mentality takes over and any misgivings are kept in-house. We'd do the same if we were targeted like that.
The P.M., Police, FA and a certain "news"paper have all come out and apologised.
Not only did none of them blame the Liverpool fans (either with or without tickets) , but every single one of them categorically stated that Liverpool fans were not to blame in any way.
Why is this so difficult to understand? Please stop it.
Turning up to a football match without a ticket isn't a mistake - its an occurence that happens in 100% of high profile matches... Yes, 100%.
Security, policing, crowd control decisions that were made on that day were mistakes.
Most of the crass comments i've seen on here have been debunked with evidence - so why do we still seem to have comments on here that do nothing but conjure up hatred.
Shame isn't it.
These particular idiots have been pushing this stuff for years, on BBC 606 also and now with tail between their legs after their hateful and sick lies are exposed are going back on what they previously said that it was Liverpool fans to blame and now they are 'just' part of the blame.
The family members of the 96 men, women and children who dies, finally after a 23 year battle force the truth to be told and still idiots like you are peddling the lie? You disgust me.
I think its more than likely that Forest fans too turned up without tickets. It would have been unheard of for any fanbase to turnup with the exact number of supporters matching their allocation - it would have been the exception.
Mate,I traveled to many games without the train tickets never mind match tickets.
I think its more than likely that Forest fans too turned up without tickets
________________________
Yet no-one admits that a single Liverpool fan turned up without a ticket. Any chance of a proper debate?
Yet no-one admits that a single Liverpool fan turned up without a ticket. Any chance of a proper debate?
.....
What's there to admit ?
Like I said earlier, this was considered the norm - so why in this instance did 96 people die.
Why do you think that of all high profile matches (all of which would of had ticketless fans), that this one cost the lives of 96 ppl.
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Search your own page and you'll find it
Your insult returned to you
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rev
For God's sake, show some Christian clemency.
We may believe that Liverpool fans contributed to people dying at Hillsborough. We've made our point, and others will no doubt continue to do so.
But for what it's worth, can we leave it at this?
Rev spencer.
I cannot believe what I am reading. After the events if the last couple of days, and the findings of the report. You still want to peddle the vile myths that have existed for 23 years. No one is saying that ticketless fans were not at the match. The Taylor Report stated that there were fans without tickets, but not an exceptional, or contribututory amount.
Then there's this;
"Everyone admits that the police were partly to blame, even the Stadium may have been partly to blame (althougth it hosted semi-finals fr 50 years and the exact same fixture the previous year), many factors to point the finger at..but not one, not one bloody Liverpool supporter has the balls or the decency to admit that some of their suppporters were also partly to blmae and responsible for what happened."
Thr stadium had no valid safety certificate. There had been issues, with Spurs fans being crushed, during a semi final in 1981. Hillsborough didn't host another semi final till either 87 and 88. Again there were issues with fan safety in the Leppings Lane end.
But despite being completely exonerated in TheTaylor Report, The Independent Report and apologies tithe fans being made by The PM, SYP, SWFC and The FA you in your infinite wisdom know something we all don't. Us fans are not admitting we did something wrong. Because The truth is we didn't do anything wrong.
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Hillsborough .... Truth.... Now justice??
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posted on 13/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/9/12
We are Forest lol... There has been times in the past, late 70's and the big games. Actually Liverpool and Everton games when standing. Our ground seems well equipped to cope nowadays. We do get tannoy messages and good communication if a kick off has to be delayed. Doesn't happen often though.
I do remember crowd congestion at a Coventry away game but that too was pre-Hillsborough.
As for ticketless fans. I'm sure we have some. But not on the scale of big clubs.
posted on 13/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/9/12
I was listening I talksport and loads of fans were ringing saying that was a disaster waiting to happen...
posted on 13/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/9/12
I can remember having to stand pitch side on a couple of occassions due to over crowding,pre animal cage days,can remember the odd person passing out but never any deaths.
If their is any blame to be pointed towards fans,it should be across the board and include the hooligans of every club. They forced clubs to have to pen us in cages.
posted on 13/9/12
First of all R.I.P to the 96 who lost their lives and heartfelt condolences to their families and friends whose lives changed forever on that fateful day. I have two teenage sons and I can't imagine taking them to a football game and never coming home.
I was on the Kop at Hillsborough in 1976 as a 15 yr old lad at our semi final against Man Utd when the crowd surged and I was crushed against a crash barrier and was taken out and watched the game from the side of the pitch and that was bad enough.
For what its worth and despite the findings of the disgusting cover up by SYP I think it would be naive to lay the blame solely at the door of SYP.
Maybe the FA should have chose a different venue as no doubt the terracing on the Leppings lane at Hillsborough did have a reputation for being dangerous at big matches.
The decision to open the outside gate, in hindsight was wrong but nevertheless I imagine with fans screaming outside in danger of getting crushed, it was made for the right reasons.
The next point is the stewards inside who were supposed to funnel fans to the outer pens. Faced with hundreds of fans surging towards them hell bent on seeing the game obviously lost control, but they were only human. Who would have been able to stop them and the fans wanted to get to see the game.
I have no evidence as to ticketless fans gaining access at the same time, but wouldn't be surprised if this did happen. Hardly crime of the century trying to watch your beloved team in a semi final. Did the fans who rushed the the gates in the first instance exacerbate the problem? Probably, but in the same circumstances I believe most football fans would have done exactly the same, trying to gain access so as not to miss the match.
Therefore my conclusion is that a number of factors contributed to the tragic event that unfolded.
As I said first off R.I.P. to the fans who lost their lives.
posted on 13/9/12
I was at Hillsborough, and for what it’s worth I’d add my condolences to the families and friends of those who died.
I find it hard to resist the suspicion that someone chose to make an example of football fans (and Liverpool in particular) after Heysel.
After the tragedy, the Guardian said that Liverpool police had warned S Yorkshire colleagues to expect large numbers of ticketless Liverpool fans. The previous year, such fans were filtered out before they reached the ground. Why was this tactic changed, and why was an experienced officer replaced by the hapless Duckenfield a month before the match? Even the latest report won’t answer this question.
I’m left with a clear impression of police withdrawing inside the stadium, expecting trouble from hordes of ticketless fans but washing their hands of the consequences.
Except that when push came to shove and a dangerous crush developed outside the ground, they opened a gate and sentenced to death many fans who’d arrived early and were trapped against the fence at the front of the stand. The consequences were so appalling that they tried to rewrite history to fit a script which blamed unruly fans.
posted on 13/9/12
Part-time:
Do you not believe that, having experienced first hand the effects of rushing into a contained area as at Heysel where, lest we forget, 33 Juventus fans and 6 Liverpool fans lost their lives only four years before Hillsborough, that perhaps Liverpool fans above all others would understand the potential for disaster that rushing and pushing could cause?
In no way mitigating the failures of the control measures and decision making of the authorities both before and during the disaster, but can we accept a report which apparently puts 100% of the blame on the authorities and absolves the Liverpool support entirely?
It doesn't sit well with me at all.
posted on 13/9/12
666
I agree that we've gone from one propaganda version to another, with the real truth somewhere in between.
I too would appreciate some hint from Liverpool fans that some of their ilk may have played some part in creating the tragedy, especially given events at Heysel and Istanbul.
But given the way the S Yorks police and the Sun shamefully tried to pin everything on them, it's hardly surprising that tribal mentality takes over and any misgivings are kept in-house. We'd do the same if we were targeted like that.
posted on 13/9/12
The P.M., Police, FA and a certain "news"paper have all come out and apologised.
Not only did none of them blame the Liverpool fans (either with or without tickets) , but every single one of them categorically stated that Liverpool fans were not to blame in any way.
Why is this so difficult to understand? Please stop it.
posted on 13/9/12
Turning up to a football match without a ticket isn't a mistake - its an occurence that happens in 100% of high profile matches... Yes, 100%.
Security, policing, crowd control decisions that were made on that day were mistakes.
Most of the crass comments i've seen on here have been debunked with evidence - so why do we still seem to have comments on here that do nothing but conjure up hatred.
Shame isn't it.
posted on 13/9/12
These particular idiots have been pushing this stuff for years, on BBC 606 also and now with tail between their legs after their hateful and sick lies are exposed are going back on what they previously said that it was Liverpool fans to blame and now they are 'just' part of the blame.
The family members of the 96 men, women and children who dies, finally after a 23 year battle force the truth to be told and still idiots like you are peddling the lie? You disgust me.
posted on 13/9/12
I think its more than likely that Forest fans too turned up without tickets. It would have been unheard of for any fanbase to turnup with the exact number of supporters matching their allocation - it would have been the exception.
posted on 13/9/12
Mate,I traveled to many games without the train tickets never mind match tickets.
posted on 13/9/12
I think its more than likely that Forest fans too turned up without tickets
________________________
Yet no-one admits that a single Liverpool fan turned up without a ticket. Any chance of a proper debate?
posted on 13/9/12
Yet no-one admits that a single Liverpool fan turned up without a ticket. Any chance of a proper debate?
.....
What's there to admit ?
Like I said earlier, this was considered the norm - so why in this instance did 96 people die.
Why do you think that of all high profile matches (all of which would of had ticketless fans), that this one cost the lives of 96 ppl.
posted on 13/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 14/9/12
Search your own page and you'll find it
Your insult returned to you
posted on 14/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 14/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 14/9/12
rev
For God's sake, show some Christian clemency.
We may believe that Liverpool fans contributed to people dying at Hillsborough. We've made our point, and others will no doubt continue to do so.
But for what it's worth, can we leave it at this?
posted on 14/9/12
Rev spencer.
I cannot believe what I am reading. After the events if the last couple of days, and the findings of the report. You still want to peddle the vile myths that have existed for 23 years. No one is saying that ticketless fans were not at the match. The Taylor Report stated that there were fans without tickets, but not an exceptional, or contribututory amount.
Then there's this;
"Everyone admits that the police were partly to blame, even the Stadium may have been partly to blame (althougth it hosted semi-finals fr 50 years and the exact same fixture the previous year), many factors to point the finger at..but not one, not one bloody Liverpool supporter has the balls or the decency to admit that some of their suppporters were also partly to blmae and responsible for what happened."
Thr stadium had no valid safety certificate. There had been issues, with Spurs fans being crushed, during a semi final in 1981. Hillsborough didn't host another semi final till either 87 and 88. Again there were issues with fan safety in the Leppings Lane end.
But despite being completely exonerated in TheTaylor Report, The Independent Report and apologies tithe fans being made by The PM, SYP, SWFC and The FA you in your infinite wisdom know something we all don't. Us fans are not admitting we did something wrong. Because The truth is we didn't do anything wrong.
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