comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 12 seconds ago
We didnt even attempt to purchase one (zubi is not that profile)
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We’re going to reinvent the wheel because football is evolving. Someone tell Real Madrid and City please.

comment by Mo Salahhhhh 7-0 Egyptian King 👑 (U8829)
posted 3 minutes ago
It’s very naive to not think we will need a proper ball winning defensive midfielder during the season.

There will come points in tough away grounds, where we are under the kosh and not have control of the ball, where someone like that will be needed.

Of course we will dominate most games, but in those tougher, more difficult opponents, you need someone in there like a Rice or Rodri to read the game and smell the danger. We still haven’t replaced Fabinho in that regard, as good as Endo has been.
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Rice and Rodri and the elite options who are not only great at winning the ball but also great on the ball. There's not too many of them about but I'm sure Slot would take one if he had the chance. It does appear that he prefers his deepest midfielder to be good on the ball however, over ball winning, which makes sense if you're wanting a game based heavily on keeping possession. Most ball winning midfielders aren't great on the ball, Rice and Rodri are just the extreme examples.

Caicedo was obviously a great option next tier down for both ball winning and being good on the ball but unfortunately we got in too late.

Yeah Caicedo would have been great alongside Mac not gunna lie.

comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t ... (U6374)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 12 seconds ago
We didnt even attempt to purchase one (zubi is not that profile)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

We’re going to reinvent the wheel because football is evolving. Someone tell Real Madrid and City please.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We'll probably fold as we aren't playing a midfielder in the exact role of ball winning. It's a wonder how we even competed last season.

comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t ... (U6374)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 12 seconds ago
We didnt even attempt to purchase one (zubi is not that profile)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

We’re going to reinvent the wheel because football is evolving. Someone tell Real Madrid and City please.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We'll probably fold as we aren't playing a midfielder in the exact role of ball winning. It's a wonder how we even competed last season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hows that list coming along? Literally any team will do. Just post one and make me look silly.

comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t ... (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t ... (U6374)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 12 seconds ago
We didnt even attempt to purchase one (zubi is not that profile)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

We’re going to reinvent the wheel because football is evolving. Someone tell Real Madrid and City please.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We'll probably fold as we aren't playing a midfielder in the exact role of ball winning. It's a wonder how we even competed last season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hows that list coming along? Literally any team will do. Just post one and make me look silly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd rather leave you to do that yourself. I have no interest in making you look silly. Although if you'd like to have a look at a list of all the winners of all the trophies before a dedicated defensive midfielder became a thing, it may open your eyes a little. Remember when Makelele came in at Chelsea and they called a dedicated defensive midfielder the Makelele role as it had barely existed before then?

I mean teams like Arsenal and City for example don't even play Rodri and Rice as deciated defensive midfielders, they have them high up the pitch when keeper possession and use full backs or centre backs to go into the defensive midfield position. But again they are extreme examples of players who excel at winning the ball but are also good on the ball. The players you were constantly mentioning throughout the transfer window were players Slot didn't want as they aren't good enough on the ball.

Hence Gravenberch starting in the role over Endo and the pursuit of Zubimendi.

Slot had Timber and Wieffer at Feyenoord who were great ball winners for the dutch level of football.

Slot needs to learn quickly because this league has a lot of teams who can hit you on the counter with pace. A good ball winning midfielder can help in those situations to win the ball back before it's get to the danger players.

I think much of the debate whether we need a DM is that the role has changed over the years so people probably have different definitions.

Personally I'd argue that the traditional profile is being phased out of the game, I don't necessarily think players like Makalele or Deschamp or even Mascherano would necessarily fit today. Pep made Masch a CB and that was 14 years ago.

Busquets redefined the role imo in that it wasn't enough to win the ball back, you had to use it effectively as well and control the game. Arguably the likes of Rodri have moved it on again and it's not just about control but a more overt effect on the game from an attacking sense.

So what do we need? Well as close to a Rodri as we can get would be the obvious answer. But at the very least someone who can win the ball and control the game. I'm not sure anyone would argue with that? I think some just want us to avoid the destroyer type player, and I understand why.

It's interesting that when Newcastle needed money and were interested in Gomez, it was Gordon we were rumoured to be wanting to take. I would have thought Bruno Guimaraes might have been the more sensible option.

comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t ... (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t ... (U6374)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 12 seconds ago
We didnt even attempt to purchase one (zubi is not that profile)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

We’re going to reinvent the wheel because football is evolving. Someone tell Real Madrid and City please.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We'll probably fold as we aren't playing a midfielder in the exact role of ball winning. It's a wonder how we even competed last season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hows that list coming along? Literally any team will do. Just post one and make me look silly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd rather leave you to do that yourself. I have no interest in making you look silly. Although if you'd like to have a look at a list of all the winners of all the trophies before a dedicated defensive midfielder became a thing, it may open your eyes a little. Remember when Makelele came in at Chelsea and they called a dedicated defensive midfielder the Makelele role as it had barely existed before then?

I mean teams like Arsenal and City for example don't even play Rodri and Rice as deciated defensive midfielders, they have them high up the pitch when keeper possession and use full backs or centre backs to go into the defensive midfield position. But again they are extreme examples of players who excel at winning the ball but are also good on the ball. The players you were constantly mentioning throughout the transfer window were players Slot didn't want as they aren't good enough on the ball.

Hence Gravenberch starting in the role over Endo and the pursuit of Zubimendi.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you really have do little self respect for yourself that you can’t just hold your hands up.

Okay, here’s a list of teams that have won the league in England or the CL without a DM;
















There isn’t one, as you well know. Please don’t post to me again. Thanks in advance.

Have fun in Milan Neo

Arsenal had Vieira.
Chelsea had Essien, Makelele, Kante, Matic.
United had Keane, Carrick, Hargreaves.
City had Fernandinho, Rodri.
We had Fabinho.

I’m sorry but to win this league or Champions League, you need a proper dm. End of Debate.

But what if you don't

comment by Mo Salahhhhh 7-0 Egyptian King 👑 (U8829)
posted 2 seconds ago
Arsenal had Vieira.
Chelsea had Essien, Makelele, Kante, Matic.
United had Keane, Carrick, Hargreaves.
City had Fernandinho, Rodri.
We had Fabinho.

I’m sorry but to win this league or Champions League, you need a proper dm. End of Debate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yep. It’s quite funny to watch the mental gymnastics some will go through to try and say otherwise.

comment by The Duality of Van (Dijk) (U21747)
posted 55 seconds ago
But what if you don't
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You come third and celebrate competing.

I’m not even a pot chaser, just think a club of our standing should have a full squad for four competitions. Crazy I know.

comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t talk to me unless you can do ten (U6374)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Mo Salahhhhh 7-0 Egyptian King 👑 (U8829)
posted 2 seconds ago
Arsenal had Vieira.
Chelsea had Essien, Makelele, Kante, Matic.
United had Keane, Carrick, Hargreaves.
City had Fernandinho, Rodri.
We had Fabinho.

I’m sorry but to win this league or Champions League, you need a proper dm. End of Debate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yep. It’s quite funny to watch the mental gymnastics some will go through to try and say otherwise.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think many (any?) would say we don't need a DM Robbing, it's more the type of DM we would want/need.

In the list of players above there are very different types of player. That's the point isn't it? A DM that suits Slot's style and modern football. I would personally argue we don't want a Makalele or Matic but would love a Rodri.

comment by Mo Salahhhhh 7-0 Egyptian King 👑 (U8829)
posted 2 minutes ago
Arsenal had Vieira.
Chelsea had Essien, Makelele, Kante, Matic.
United had Keane, Carrick, Hargreaves.
City had Fernandinho, Rodri.
We had Fabinho.

I’m sorry but to win this league or Champions League, you need a proper dm. End of Debate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not the end of the debate at all. Yes there are a lot in your lost that were good ball winners but they were much more than that. Most of them weren't classed as ball winners as that was only a small part of their game. As discussed earlier there were several players people were mentioning throughout the summer window that were ball winners but who would simply not fit into the system Slot wants to develop. Obviously he'd rip your arm off for a Rodri or a Rice but there are very few of those players around who excel at both ball winning and on the ball. The pursuit of Zubimendi and preferring Gravenberch in there obviously shows that given those choice he prefers his deepest midfielder to be good on the ball, rather than a dedicated ball winner.

comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t ... (U6374)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t ... (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t ... (U6374)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 12 seconds ago
We didnt even attempt to purchase one (zubi is not that profile)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

We’re going to reinvent the wheel because football is evolving. Someone tell Real Madrid and City please.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We'll probably fold as we aren't playing a midfielder in the exact role of ball winning. It's a wonder how we even competed last season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hows that list coming along? Literally any team will do. Just post one and make me look silly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd rather leave you to do that yourself. I have no interest in making you look silly. Although if you'd like to have a look at a list of all the winners of all the trophies before a dedicated defensive midfielder became a thing, it may open your eyes a little. Remember when Makelele came in at Chelsea and they called a dedicated defensive midfielder the Makelele role as it had barely existed before then?

I mean teams like Arsenal and City for example don't even play Rodri and Rice as deciated defensive midfielders, they have them high up the pitch when keeper possession and use full backs or centre backs to go into the defensive midfield position. But again they are extreme examples of players who excel at winning the ball but are also good on the ball. The players you were constantly mentioning throughout the transfer window were players Slot didn't want as they aren't good enough on the ball.

Hence Gravenberch starting in the role over Endo and the pursuit of Zubimendi.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you really have do little self respect for yourself that you can’t just hold your hands up.

Okay, here’s a list of teams that have won the league in England or the CL without a DM;
















There isn’t one, as you well know. Please don’t post to me again. Thanks in advance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
'Dedicated ball winner, no trophies, dedicated ball winner, no trophies'. The straight jacket is getting dusted off.

comment by Szoboss (U6997)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t talk to me unless you can do ten (U6374)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Mo Salahhhhh 7-0 Egyptian King 👑 (U8829)
posted 2 seconds ago
Arsenal had Vieira.
Chelsea had Essien, Makelele, Kante, Matic.
United had Keane, Carrick, Hargreaves.
City had Fernandinho, Rodri.
We had Fabinho.

I’m sorry but to win this league or Champions League, you need a proper dm. End of Debate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yep. It’s quite funny to watch the mental gymnastics some will go through to try and say otherwise.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think many (any?) would say we don't need a DM Robbing, it's more the type of DM we would want/need.

In the list of players above there are very different types of player. That's the point isn't it? A DM that suits Slot's style and modern football. I would personally argue we don't want a Makalele or Matic but would love a Rodri.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Possibly, but personally I like options.

We lack power and pace and physicality in midfield, we just do, and I don’t see that as up for debate. We do not have a single player in the squad with that profile, who’s also good off the ball and I am certain there will be game where we need one.

There is a reason every elite team that wins the big trophies has one. Every. Single. One. It’s not coincidence.

comment by Szoboss (U6997)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t talk to me unless you can do ten (U6374)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Mo Salahhhhh 7-0 Egyptian King 👑 (U8829)
posted 2 seconds ago
Arsenal had Vieira.
Chelsea had Essien, Makelele, Kante, Matic.
United had Keane, Carrick, Hargreaves.
City had Fernandinho, Rodri.
We had Fabinho.

I’m sorry but to win this league or Champions League, you need a proper dm. End of Debate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yep. It’s quite funny to watch the mental gymnastics some will go through to try and say otherwise.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think many (any?) would say we don't need a DM Robbing, it's more the type of DM we would want/need.

In the list of players above there are very different types of player. That's the point isn't it? A DM that suits Slot's style and modern football. I would personally argue we don't want a Makalele or Matic but would love a Rodri.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly this. Everyone is in agreement we needed a DM, including the club who have been trying to get one in for multiple seasons now. The issue is there are many DMs who are good at winning the ball but not great on the ball. We're clearly looking for both, hence the players we've pursued. These players are in short supply hence the big fees they command and even our massive bids haven't been enough.

would have thought Bruno Guimaraes might have been the more sensible option.
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Wouldnt be shocked if newcastle would have wanted over 100mil or outright said hes not for sale

edwards wanted him years back apparenty (when he was still in brazil)

Yeah he would have worked but not sure they would have been paying the £100m plus we were willing to on Caicedo for a player who turns 27 in November. I'm not saying 27 is old of course but for £100m plus you're probably looking for at least five years and potentially a good chunk back if only for the five years, at the end of that.

didnt realise he was that old, thought he was like 24

27 is nothing in todays game.

comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t ... (U6374)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Mo Salahhhhh 7-0 Egyptian King 👑 (U8829)
posted 2 seconds ago
Arsenal had Vieira.
Chelsea had Essien, Makelele, Kante, Matic.
United had Keane, Carrick, Hargreaves.
City had Fernandinho, Rodri.
We had Fabinho.

I’m sorry but to win this league or Champions League, you need a proper dm. End of Debate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yep. It’s quite funny to watch the mental gymnastics some will go through to try and say otherwise.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This