Truth is, how many black players are applying for badges? This is where the important stat lies, because it gives an indication of the number of ppl in that demographic, actually pursue a career in coaching.

The system is fine and not as institutionally racist IMO.......

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Without the answer to the question you posed its impossible to come to that conclusion.

If there is indeed a concern then there needs to be some sort of study or investigation to give a proper picture of how things actually are. Until that hard evidence is presented its not possible to say with any level of certainty that the system is etiher fine or broke.

comment by Ledley's knee surgeon: Football Manager legend - The Barca MSN (U20121)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 8 seconds ago
At the end of the day IF a chairman is indeed racist, he can interview a black applicant as per the ruling and then not hire him anyway.
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Indeed. But then this sort of debate will become unnecessary because it will be obvious that a problem exists if nothing ever changes.
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So what is it you'd like to see change, or what is it you see as the problem?

The number of black managers?
The number of black applicants being interviewed?

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I have been a shareholder at one time, albeit a small one and I was horrified at the intrinsic bad business practice unique to football.

What I would like is system by which all clubs implement a recruitment procedure where the application and interview processes are open and based purely on merit.

That includes whites or non-whites on an equal footing and then the best man gets the job.

If Mourinho was black, would he struggle for work if he left Chelsea?
Would Ancelotti should he be sacked from Madrid?
Would we have not employed LVG if he was black?

If Pulis was black, would he find himself unemployed for prolonged periods of time?

There isn't a sane club in the top flights that would turn a manager down with the correct credentials based on colour.

There will, for now at least, be more white managers because the simple fact is there are more white people competing for jobs. This isn't a racist issue, it is (for the most part at the very least) clubs hiring mamagers they feel will give them the best opportunity of achieving their objectives. Football has too much riding on it, financially, for so many clubs to turn away people based on colour.

It is like saying the rap industry is racist because it is predominantly black. No. The fact is there is a larger % of artists in that genre that are black. There will be white artists but fewer of them, so they won't dominate the genre.

If Paul Ince won the Champions League with Porto, he would get a chance at a good level without doubt.

Football doesn't 'need' more black managers, it doesn't 'need' more Hispanic or white or any other ethnicity of manager. It needs competent managers who will achieve clubs objectives. You might get the odd Club who could discriminate, MIGHT. But for the most part, clubs will go with who they feel with get them what they need because the financial risk/reward is so high.

This argument is starting to wear thin now.

I would like people such as John Barnes and Sol Campbell come out and say who is being racist.

It would be good for someone to say 'I was interviewed for x FC managers job/ was turned down for an interview. It's my belief that I didn't get the job/ didn't get an interview because I feel the chairman/CEO/board members are racist. They didn't want to employ a black man'.

It would certainly add credence to the notion that they believe.

The BBC statistics show there are more black players proportionally in comparison to the population. Why could someone not just as easily make a story out of that?

If there was this institutional racism then these players simply wouldn't be there.

I think talk of "white guilt" is clouding the issue and largely irrelevant.

As I said, how can it be explained that over 25% of professional players are BAME, and yet only 3-4% of coaches are? Even if it is simply because fewer people of minority ethnicities people try to become coaches and managers (which I doubt), then I think it is still worthwhile trying to figure out why that is.

comment by Sömeday_693 - Källström will be our salvation (U8892)
posted 1 minute ago
I think talk of "white guilt" is clouding the issue and largely irrelevant.

As I said, how can it be explained that over 25% of professional players are BAME, and yet only 3-4% of coaches are? Even if it is simply because fewer people of minority ethnicities people try to become coaches and managers (which I doubt), then I think it is still worthwhile trying to figure out why that is.
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Why figure that out? What does it achieve?

Why not figure out why they make up 25%, a greater proportion than the population?

Could be that proportionally the players, as people, simply don't make good coaches.

How come colour does not matter,and then we have calls for more black managers,etc?
Imagine someone saying proportionally,we have too few white British players?That would be called racist.

Mad world.

Nope raised in Leeds. Its very relevant actually as it is the tactic being used here.

comment by Unknown Poster (U15867)
posted 10 minutes ago
I would like people such as John Barnes and Sol Campbell come out and say who is being racist.

It would be good for someone to say 'I was interviewed for x FC managers job/ was turned down for an interview. It's my belief that I didn't get the job/ didn't get an interview because I feel the chairman/CEO/board members are racist. They didn't want to employ a black man'.

It would certainly add credence to the notion that they believe.
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This is a great point. I would like to see the same

I've found some figures based on the 2011 census. Not completely up to date, but I doubt it's changed that much:-

White British = 87.17%
Black or Black British = 3.01%

So based on the following statement, you could argue that black managers are getting more than their fair share of opportunities......

Of the 230 clubs that make up the seven tiers of English football below the top flight, only 14 have black managers (6.09%).

Someday, it could be as simple as black players don't want to be managers. Not everything is a racial conspiracy.

Could be that proportionally the players, as people, simply don't make good coaches.
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And can you think of a reason why that might be?

Sol Campbell is the worst representation for blacks in the game, he is mentally suspect and after his treatment of Notts County, is a selfish man.

comment by Wessie Road (U10652)
posted 51 seconds ago
Could be that proportionally the players, as people, simply don't make good coaches.
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And can you think of a reason why that might be?


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No. Does it matter?

I don't make a good scientist, can you think of a reason that is?

Where are the Asian and muslim players in the UK?

comment by RenegadeOF (U9457)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Sömeday_693 - Källström will be our salvation (U8892)
posted 1 minute ago
I think talk of "white guilt" is clouding the issue and largely irrelevant.

As I said, how can it be explained that over 25% of professional players are BAME, and yet only 3-4% of coaches are? Even if it is simply because fewer people of minority ethnicities people try to become coaches and managers (which I doubt), then I think it is still worthwhile trying to figure out why that is.
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Why figure that out? What does it achieve?

Why not figure out why they make up 25%, a greater proportion than the population?

Could be that proportionally the players, as people, simply don't make good coaches.
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Well, because comparing the demographics of footballers without context is a futile exercise. Firstly you're looking at a very specific age range, around 18-35, a more diverse demographic than older population.

The you have to consider than footballer tend to come from lower socio-economic back grounds, where there also tend to be a higher proportion of people of black and ethnic minorities than the larger population.

The reason that these things matters are because it is important to identify, and eliminate, areas across society where people are being denied opportunity for reason beyond their ability and merit, and that goes for people being discriminated for reasons of gender, ethnicity and ages, and it applies in any direction.

It is nothing to so with any sort of liberal or racial conspiracy, as some people seem to believe, but about achieving equality of opportunity across the board. Do people generally think that this is the case when it comes to football?

comment by thebluebellsareblue (U9292)
posted 41 seconds ago
Where are the Asian and muslim players in the UK?
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Do they have a calculator, doing maths? Where are I'd the white representation in th men's sprinting teams? Plenty stereotypes out there, is there truth to them that different races excel in different areas?

People are different. Was it not Morgan Freeman who said to stop racism you need to stop talking about it.

No. Does it matter?
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Well, it kind of does.
What characteristics do you think black people might have that would make them worse coaches?

The fact that you are not a good scientist is not relevant to the point. If you said "white people aren't good scientists" it would be an odd thing to say, and you would be challenged to say how you think that's possible.

Someday...

You seem to hang on to this train of though that the system is still institutionally racist, and as such cares not for the developing of "gateways". Can u honestly tell me that if somebody is excellent, they do not get given the chances? In this day and age?

Renegade, what u said may be the elephant in the room of this issue.

Without going into specifics, and sticking to "averages" or point IMO holds so Mich weight.

Where have all the white 100m sprinters gone?

Disgraceful,that white folk are labelled fat and slow.

comment by terminator1 (U1863)
posted 13 minutes ago
I've found some figures based on the 2011 census. Not completely up to date, but I doubt it's changed that much:-

White British = 87.17%
Black or Black British = 3.01%

So based on the following statement, you could argue that black managers are getting more than their fair share of opportunities......

Of the 230 clubs that make up the seven tiers of English football below the top flight, only 14 have black managers (6.09%).


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there are double the number of black managers than should be occurring statistically.

If there is any racism involved in the lack of black managers, I would suspect it was subconscious. For the life of me I can't fathom why a chairman would spurn the chance for someone to improve their club/investment on the grounds of their colour.

comment by The Kaiser's Trainers (U5676)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by terminator1 (U1863)
posted 13 minutes ago
I've found some figures based on the 2011 census. Not completely up to date, but I doubt it's changed that much:-

White British = 87.17%
Black or Black British = 3.01%

So based on the following statement, you could argue that black managers are getting more than their fair share of opportunities......

Of the 230 clubs that make up the seven tiers of English football below the top flight, only 14 have black managers (6.09%).


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there are double the number of black managers than should be occurring statistically.
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Positive discrimination at play?