On the other hand, there is clearly a disconnect between the fact that of the 92 clubs in the PL & FL, over 25% of players are black and ethnic minority, and yet the number of black and ethnic minority coaches (and not just managers) is closer to 3% (those figures are based on a think tank study at the end of 2014).
----------------------------------------------------------
Good point. It's also generally true that in the USA black/ethnic minority managers are given a longer and better chance and environment to succeed than in the UK where, it's fair to say, racism runs deeper and is more subtle.
Bluebell, there was a white sprinter in the Olympic final....he came last though!
As I said, how can it be explained that over 25% of professional players are BAME, and yet only 3-4% of coaches are?
--------------------------------
Because they are still playing football?
Managers are usually much older that footballers, the current generation of managers grew up when racism was still prevalent in this country/world.
When this 25% retires eventually, and some go into management, there will be a bigger pool of ethnic managers to choose from.
Grand,the reason blacks are as u say given more chance is because American sports are largely fast twitch based, and as such see blacks excel and this produce revenue, so with the high number of black atheletes comes the higher % of coaches. Its a business transaction IO, rather than equality.
basically looking at the census stats the prem should have 17-18 white managers, 1-2 Asian managers, and 0-1 black managers if it was simply applied by racial balance.
comment by thebluebellsareblue (U9292)
posted 5 minutes ago
Where are the Asian and muslim players in the UK?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Praying in the corridors at Anfield going by yesterdays press. Would a devout Muslim player have to nip off for prays during a match or do they a of bit of leeway?
comment by Grand Cannon (U18697)
posted 12 seconds ago
On the other hand, there is clearly a disconnect between the fact that of the 92 clubs in the PL & FL, over 25% of players are black and ethnic minority, and yet the number of black and ethnic minority coaches (and not just managers) is closer to 3% (those figures are based on a think tank study at the end of 2014).
----------------------------------------------------------
Good point. It's also generally true that in the USA black/ethnic minority managers are given a longer and better chance and environment to succeed than in the UK where, it's fair to say, racism runs deeper and is more subtle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't compare stats between British and American football, there us no comparison. Football is way down the list of sports in America, whereas it's no1 here. Brings completely different pressures and expectations. Also, I would guess that the black population of the US is higher than our 3%?
As for your 'fair to say that racism runs deeper' comments, absolutely ridiculous.
White British = 87.17%
Black or Black British = 3.01%
So based on the following statement, you could argue that black managers are getting more than their fair share of opportunities......
Of the 230 clubs that make up the seven tiers of English football below the top flight, only 14 have black managers (6.09%).
-------------------------------------------------------------
In all fairness, it makes more sense to use the figures of the blacks who actually participate in the sport (players, ex-players) because these are the part of the population available for the job, rather than general population figures. If say in basketball 50% of the players are black, you would use this figure to gauge how far they are accommodated at the coaching and managerial levels.
Mike
I was that fat lazy white sprinter,mate.
Is it not racist that this article focuses on black representation rather than Asian?
but GC if you look at managers most of the best ones had short and shiite careers as players
Where have all the white 100m sprinters gone?
Disgraceful,that white folk are labelled fat and slow.
====================================================
Well, it’s not seriously feasible, that white people turn up for training, win the sprint trials, and then get told they’re not picked because they’re fat and slow, and that the managers pick the black dude instead because of their “white guilt”
There is an element of subjectivity in giving somebody a job, or a reasonable length of time to do it in, that is not present in sprint trials. Nobody is ever going to say "that fat dude who came in last is the best sprinter".
comment by 魔法の~Arsène Wenger's Magic Ha... (U6490)
posted 4 minutes ago
As I said, how can it be explained that over 25% of professional players are BAME, and yet only 3-4% of coaches are?
--------------------------------
Because they are still playing football?
Managers are usually much older that footballers, the current generation of managers grew up when racism was still prevalent in this country/world.
When this 25% retires eventually, and some go into management, there will be a bigger pool of ethnic managers to choose from.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To some extent I agree that that is a fair point. The figures I was looking at weren't just for the club manager though, but for around 550 coaches of professional clubs, so I would expect a greater age range there, but I take your point.
By the way, I'm not actually suggesting that racism is at large in football, but you can see from this thread when there is any suggestion of discrimination at all, people can very quickly get defensive and dismiss things, whereas I think it is worthwhile to actually dig down into why there are these disconnects, and have a better understanding of what is happening.
Sick of black people in football feeling sorry for themselves. There is no racism in English football, certainly at boardroom level. I watched an episode of football's greatest, it was about Sol Campbell. All he did was whine and biiitch saying he was the best CB in England and was not England captain simply because he was black. I mean to black people really have that big a chip on their shoulder?
comment by terminator1 (U1863)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Grand Cannon (U18697)
posted 12 seconds ago
On the other hand, there is clearly a disconnect between the fact that of the 92 clubs in the PL & FL, over 25% of players are black and ethnic minority, and yet the number of black and ethnic minority coaches (and not just managers) is closer to 3% (those figures are based on a think tank study at the end of 2014).
----------------------------------------------------------
Good point. It's also generally true that in the USA black/ethnic minority managers are given a longer and better chance and environment to succeed than in the UK where, it's fair to say, racism runs deeper and is more subtle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't compare stats between British and American football, there us no comparison. Football is way down the list of sports in America, whereas it's no1 here. Brings completely different pressures and expectations. Also, I would guess that the black population of the US is higher than our 3%?
As for your 'fair to say that racism runs deeper' comments, absolutely ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am convinced racism is worse, more subtle and runs deeper in UK than USA. We can agree to disagree on that, no problem.
comment by Grand Cannon (U18697)
posted 2 minutes ago
White British = 87.17%
Black or Black British = 3.01%
So based on the following statement, you could argue that black managers are getting more than their fair share of opportunities......
Of the 230 clubs that make up the seven tiers of English football below the top flight, only 14 have black managers (6.09%).
-------------------------------------------------------------
In all fairness, it makes more sense to use the figures of the blacks who actually participate in the sport (players, ex-players) because these are the part of the population available for the job, rather than general population figures. If say in basketball 50% of the players are black, you would use this figure to gauge how far they are accommodated at the coaching and managerial levels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really, because those that are participating are not available for management. That point will not be relevant until the present crop of black players retire. I would guess that those figures will rise sharply in 10-20 years.
Where are all the black disabled females managers in football?
Wessie
I was joking about fat white sprinters,pointing out that there were none,and this is not down to racism and that applies to black managers,imo................and what about the few Asian and muslim players/managers?
comment by Grand Cannon (U18697)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by terminator1 (U1863)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Grand Cannon (U18697)
posted 12 seconds ago
On the other hand, there is clearly a disconnect between the fact that of the 92 clubs in the PL & FL, over 25% of players are black and ethnic minority, and yet the number of black and ethnic minority coaches (and not just managers) is closer to 3% (those figures are based on a think tank study at the end of 2014).
----------------------------------------------------------
Good point. It's also generally true that in the USA black/ethnic minority managers are given a longer and better chance and environment to succeed than in the UK where, it's fair to say, racism runs deeper and is more subtle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't compare stats between British and American football, there us no comparison. Football is way down the list of sports in America, whereas it's no1 here. Brings completely different pressures and expectations. Also, I would guess that the black population of the US is higher than our 3%?
As for your 'fair to say that racism runs deeper' comments, absolutely ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am convinced racism is worse, more subtle and runs deeper in UK than USA. We can agree to disagree on that, no problem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I honestly don't think racism is worse over here. You can say it's more hidden,for example First Amendment means you can state/promote hate for races, whereas over here you cannot.
However my perception in the UK, is that you don't usually highlight someone's background or race whereas in the states they promote it, and state it everywhere. Compare literature on companies for example US companies will say "10% of our workforce is African American." That would not be acceptable here, because it should be irrelevant.
America imo has problems because it's puts such much prominence of race and background when everybody should be held to the same standards.
But America and England have different histories and upbringings they go about things in different ways.
I think we're risking xenophobia as well with the UK census stats
why do they have to be british managers? go all the globe.
there should be 12 Asian managers, 3 white, 3 black, 1 middle eastern, and 1 South American manager in the prem
Reddevils
They have their own league,buddy.
It is the transgender managers I feel for............and the bi-curious get it hard...........
Or so I hear.
It is quite puzzling how few Muslim players there are. It's possible that it could be as simple as they were brought up to follow cricket. Obviously cricket is massive amongst Asian populations throughout the world. I suspect we'll see more of them playing in the next generation onwards.....
Kaiser
Islam is the fastest growing demographic/faith,yet how many muslims are involved in footie,and how long will Sol and Barnes ignore this fact,the islamophobic bigots?
comment by Bats (U18355)
posted 7 minutes ago
Sick of black people in football feeling sorry for themselves. There is no racism in English football, certainly at boardroom level. I watched an episode of football's greatest, it was about Sol Campbell. All he did was whine and biiitch saying he was the best CB in England and was not England captain simply because he was black. I mean to black people really have that big a chip on their shoulder?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please don't use him as a representation of black people. He's an embarrassment and certainly not the norm.
comment by Ledley's knee surgeon: Football Manager legend - The Barca MSN (U20121)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bats (U18355)
posted 7 minutes ago
Sick of black people in football feeling sorry for themselves. There is no racism in English football, certainly at boardroom level. I watched an episode of football's greatest, it was about Sol Campbell. All he did was whine and biiitch saying he was the best CB in England and was not England captain simply because he was black. I mean to black people really have that big a chip on their shoulder?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please don't use him as a representation of black people. He's an embarrassment and certainly not the norm.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
exactly. These guys don't speak for all black people. Jimmy doesn't agree with them and a number of black folk on here don't.
I hope people understand this, there is no uniform 'black vote' on this subject no matter what the media will try and claim.
Sign in if you want to comment
Black Managers......
Page 3 of 9
6 | 7 | 8 | 9
posted on 16/4/15
On the other hand, there is clearly a disconnect between the fact that of the 92 clubs in the PL & FL, over 25% of players are black and ethnic minority, and yet the number of black and ethnic minority coaches (and not just managers) is closer to 3% (those figures are based on a think tank study at the end of 2014).
----------------------------------------------------------
Good point. It's also generally true that in the USA black/ethnic minority managers are given a longer and better chance and environment to succeed than in the UK where, it's fair to say, racism runs deeper and is more subtle.
posted on 16/4/15
Bluebell, there was a white sprinter in the Olympic final....he came last though!
posted on 16/4/15
As I said, how can it be explained that over 25% of professional players are BAME, and yet only 3-4% of coaches are?
--------------------------------
Because they are still playing football?
Managers are usually much older that footballers, the current generation of managers grew up when racism was still prevalent in this country/world.
When this 25% retires eventually, and some go into management, there will be a bigger pool of ethnic managers to choose from.
posted on 16/4/15
Grand,the reason blacks are as u say given more chance is because American sports are largely fast twitch based, and as such see blacks excel and this produce revenue, so with the high number of black atheletes comes the higher % of coaches. Its a business transaction IO, rather than equality.
posted on 16/4/15
basically looking at the census stats the prem should have 17-18 white managers, 1-2 Asian managers, and 0-1 black managers if it was simply applied by racial balance.
posted on 16/4/15
comment by thebluebellsareblue (U9292)
posted 5 minutes ago
Where are the Asian and muslim players in the UK?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Praying in the corridors at Anfield going by yesterdays press. Would a devout Muslim player have to nip off for prays during a match or do they a of bit of leeway?
posted on 16/4/15
comment by Grand Cannon (U18697)
posted 12 seconds ago
On the other hand, there is clearly a disconnect between the fact that of the 92 clubs in the PL & FL, over 25% of players are black and ethnic minority, and yet the number of black and ethnic minority coaches (and not just managers) is closer to 3% (those figures are based on a think tank study at the end of 2014).
----------------------------------------------------------
Good point. It's also generally true that in the USA black/ethnic minority managers are given a longer and better chance and environment to succeed than in the UK where, it's fair to say, racism runs deeper and is more subtle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't compare stats between British and American football, there us no comparison. Football is way down the list of sports in America, whereas it's no1 here. Brings completely different pressures and expectations. Also, I would guess that the black population of the US is higher than our 3%?
As for your 'fair to say that racism runs deeper' comments, absolutely ridiculous.
posted on 16/4/15
White British = 87.17%
Black or Black British = 3.01%
So based on the following statement, you could argue that black managers are getting more than their fair share of opportunities......
Of the 230 clubs that make up the seven tiers of English football below the top flight, only 14 have black managers (6.09%).
-------------------------------------------------------------
In all fairness, it makes more sense to use the figures of the blacks who actually participate in the sport (players, ex-players) because these are the part of the population available for the job, rather than general population figures. If say in basketball 50% of the players are black, you would use this figure to gauge how far they are accommodated at the coaching and managerial levels.
posted on 16/4/15
Mike
I was that fat lazy white sprinter,mate.
posted on 16/4/15
Is it not racist that this article focuses on black representation rather than Asian?
posted on 16/4/15
but GC if you look at managers most of the best ones had short and shiite careers as players
posted on 16/4/15
Where have all the white 100m sprinters gone?
Disgraceful,that white folk are labelled fat and slow.
====================================================
Well, it’s not seriously feasible, that white people turn up for training, win the sprint trials, and then get told they’re not picked because they’re fat and slow, and that the managers pick the black dude instead because of their “white guilt”
There is an element of subjectivity in giving somebody a job, or a reasonable length of time to do it in, that is not present in sprint trials. Nobody is ever going to say "that fat dude who came in last is the best sprinter".
posted on 16/4/15
comment by 魔法の~Arsène Wenger's Magic Ha... (U6490)
posted 4 minutes ago
As I said, how can it be explained that over 25% of professional players are BAME, and yet only 3-4% of coaches are?
--------------------------------
Because they are still playing football?
Managers are usually much older that footballers, the current generation of managers grew up when racism was still prevalent in this country/world.
When this 25% retires eventually, and some go into management, there will be a bigger pool of ethnic managers to choose from.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To some extent I agree that that is a fair point. The figures I was looking at weren't just for the club manager though, but for around 550 coaches of professional clubs, so I would expect a greater age range there, but I take your point.
By the way, I'm not actually suggesting that racism is at large in football, but you can see from this thread when there is any suggestion of discrimination at all, people can very quickly get defensive and dismiss things, whereas I think it is worthwhile to actually dig down into why there are these disconnects, and have a better understanding of what is happening.
posted on 16/4/15
Sick of black people in football feeling sorry for themselves. There is no racism in English football, certainly at boardroom level. I watched an episode of football's greatest, it was about Sol Campbell. All he did was whine and biiitch saying he was the best CB in England and was not England captain simply because he was black. I mean to black people really have that big a chip on their shoulder?
posted on 16/4/15
comment by terminator1 (U1863)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Grand Cannon (U18697)
posted 12 seconds ago
On the other hand, there is clearly a disconnect between the fact that of the 92 clubs in the PL & FL, over 25% of players are black and ethnic minority, and yet the number of black and ethnic minority coaches (and not just managers) is closer to 3% (those figures are based on a think tank study at the end of 2014).
----------------------------------------------------------
Good point. It's also generally true that in the USA black/ethnic minority managers are given a longer and better chance and environment to succeed than in the UK where, it's fair to say, racism runs deeper and is more subtle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't compare stats between British and American football, there us no comparison. Football is way down the list of sports in America, whereas it's no1 here. Brings completely different pressures and expectations. Also, I would guess that the black population of the US is higher than our 3%?
As for your 'fair to say that racism runs deeper' comments, absolutely ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am convinced racism is worse, more subtle and runs deeper in UK than USA. We can agree to disagree on that, no problem.
posted on 16/4/15
comment by Grand Cannon (U18697)
posted 2 minutes ago
White British = 87.17%
Black or Black British = 3.01%
So based on the following statement, you could argue that black managers are getting more than their fair share of opportunities......
Of the 230 clubs that make up the seven tiers of English football below the top flight, only 14 have black managers (6.09%).
-------------------------------------------------------------
In all fairness, it makes more sense to use the figures of the blacks who actually participate in the sport (players, ex-players) because these are the part of the population available for the job, rather than general population figures. If say in basketball 50% of the players are black, you would use this figure to gauge how far they are accommodated at the coaching and managerial levels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really, because those that are participating are not available for management. That point will not be relevant until the present crop of black players retire. I would guess that those figures will rise sharply in 10-20 years.
posted on 16/4/15
Where are all the black disabled females managers in football?
posted on 16/4/15
Wessie
I was joking about fat white sprinters,pointing out that there were none,and this is not down to racism and that applies to black managers,imo................and what about the few Asian and muslim players/managers?
posted on 16/4/15
comment by Grand Cannon (U18697)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by terminator1 (U1863)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Grand Cannon (U18697)
posted 12 seconds ago
On the other hand, there is clearly a disconnect between the fact that of the 92 clubs in the PL & FL, over 25% of players are black and ethnic minority, and yet the number of black and ethnic minority coaches (and not just managers) is closer to 3% (those figures are based on a think tank study at the end of 2014).
----------------------------------------------------------
Good point. It's also generally true that in the USA black/ethnic minority managers are given a longer and better chance and environment to succeed than in the UK where, it's fair to say, racism runs deeper and is more subtle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't compare stats between British and American football, there us no comparison. Football is way down the list of sports in America, whereas it's no1 here. Brings completely different pressures and expectations. Also, I would guess that the black population of the US is higher than our 3%?
As for your 'fair to say that racism runs deeper' comments, absolutely ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am convinced racism is worse, more subtle and runs deeper in UK than USA. We can agree to disagree on that, no problem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I honestly don't think racism is worse over here. You can say it's more hidden,for example First Amendment means you can state/promote hate for races, whereas over here you cannot.
However my perception in the UK, is that you don't usually highlight someone's background or race whereas in the states they promote it, and state it everywhere. Compare literature on companies for example US companies will say "10% of our workforce is African American." That would not be acceptable here, because it should be irrelevant.
America imo has problems because it's puts such much prominence of race and background when everybody should be held to the same standards.
But America and England have different histories and upbringings they go about things in different ways.
posted on 16/4/15
I think we're risking xenophobia as well with the UK census stats
why do they have to be british managers? go all the globe.
there should be 12 Asian managers, 3 white, 3 black, 1 middle eastern, and 1 South American manager in the prem
posted on 16/4/15
Reddevils
They have their own league,buddy.
It is the transgender managers I feel for............and the bi-curious get it hard...........
Or so I hear.
posted on 16/4/15
It is quite puzzling how few Muslim players there are. It's possible that it could be as simple as they were brought up to follow cricket. Obviously cricket is massive amongst Asian populations throughout the world. I suspect we'll see more of them playing in the next generation onwards.....
posted on 16/4/15
Kaiser
Islam is the fastest growing demographic/faith,yet how many muslims are involved in footie,and how long will Sol and Barnes ignore this fact,the islamophobic bigots?
posted on 16/4/15
comment by Bats (U18355)
posted 7 minutes ago
Sick of black people in football feeling sorry for themselves. There is no racism in English football, certainly at boardroom level. I watched an episode of football's greatest, it was about Sol Campbell. All he did was whine and biiitch saying he was the best CB in England and was not England captain simply because he was black. I mean to black people really have that big a chip on their shoulder?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please don't use him as a representation of black people. He's an embarrassment and certainly not the norm.
posted on 16/4/15
comment by Ledley's knee surgeon: Football Manager legend - The Barca MSN (U20121)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bats (U18355)
posted 7 minutes ago
Sick of black people in football feeling sorry for themselves. There is no racism in English football, certainly at boardroom level. I watched an episode of football's greatest, it was about Sol Campbell. All he did was whine and biiitch saying he was the best CB in England and was not England captain simply because he was black. I mean to black people really have that big a chip on their shoulder?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please don't use him as a representation of black people. He's an embarrassment and certainly not the norm.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
exactly. These guys don't speak for all black people. Jimmy doesn't agree with them and a number of black folk on here don't.
I hope people understand this, there is no uniform 'black vote' on this subject no matter what the media will try and claim.
Page 3 of 9
6 | 7 | 8 | 9