Frankly a ridiculous question for you to ask in the first instance..

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"Do you blame poor disadvantaged children for their outcomes?"

That was your question. I don't blame children for their situations.

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I'm not getting how what Red said could be called 'sneering'.

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Nope, still not seeing it as sneering.

Not a clever thing to say, considering that all the wealth in the world can't buy the safety those seeking succour on our shores are so desperate for, but in the context of this thread, especially the confusing and confused populists, its an opinion but not imo a sneering one. Each to their own.

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comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 1 minute ago
Anyhow there is a problem with white working class in education. And it is up to schools, parents and government to come up with solutions.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/nov/10/schools-focus-struggling-white-working-class-pupils-uk

Hopefully Bluebells won't jump on this and throw in his usual kitchen sink of Trump, Clinton, Isis, Muslims Christians etc etc.


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The article backs up the opinion of it being the responsibility of the individual and their parents as well as Immigrant zeal and appreciation and importance of education.

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Some pupils need castigating, others need an arm around the shoulder. Bottom line is schooling is like life, you get out what you put in. If you dont try then you don't achieve. The fact white working class are 'failing' isn't the fault of the system as their peers seem to be improving.

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If the progeny of migrants can outperform their indigenous (apparently) peers does it not show those who have, relatively, failed only have themselves to blame?

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Ok if you grabbed a different side of that fair enough, though I wonder why you thought I'd have a go at young kids, I was referring to those in adulthood.

And yes, I do like seeing people make something of themselves.
A migrant working class family in the 60's or 70's had it a lot tougher than any white working class family.. of the progeny of those migrant families can supercede their peers, does it not show, starkly, who has failed?

*if the progeny ...

Of course schools should be aiming to consistently improve and identifying a failing group with the hope of turning them around is a good thing, the point I'm trying to make is the schools are working, that it is not their fault that white working class pupils are falling behind, that failure lies at their own door.

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Of course schools should be aiming to consistently improve and identifying a failing group with the hope of turning them around is a good thing, the point I'm trying to make is the schools are working, that it is not their fault that white working class pupils are falling behind, that failure lies at their own door.

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comment by Cal Neva (U11544)




posted 19 seconds ago



comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 1 minute ago
Of course schools should be aiming to consistently improve and identifying a failing group with the hope of turning them around is a good thing, the point I'm trying to make is the schools are working, that it is not their fault that white working class pupils are falling behind, that failure lies at their own door.
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Sorry don't see it that way. Firstly it is a phenomenon the world over that many immigrant parents want to make the best of the new opportunities afforded to them in their 'new' country. This is well documented and a good thing that their sons and daughters are 'pushed harder'. So that same thing isn't really seen to the same extent in the indigenous poorer population as a whole.
But that aside those that generally do better in society tend to go to better schools in better areas that have the better teachers etc etc. It is nothing new but an old problem that is still with us. We should be looking to give those from disadvantaged areas as good an education but often it is lacking
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Of course immigrant families grasp our education system,most come from countries where a free eduction is a rare commodity,regarding the indigenous population many young white pupils come from disenfranchised families where education is not a priority,many children do well mainly down to their own will to get on and move up in society,in many cases you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Surely that's the point, that the New Brits are pushing their kids, making them take advantage of the educational opportunities available in the UK whereas the white working class parents dont (huge generalisation obviously).

comment by groovyduringthewar (U1054)
posted 10 minutes ago



Of course schools should be aiming to consistently improve and identifying a failing group with the hope of turning them around is a good thing, the point I'm trying to make is the schools are working, that it is not their fault that white working class pupils are falling behind, that failure lies at their own door.

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comment by Cal Neva (U11544)




posted 19 seconds ago



comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 1 minute ago
Of course schools should be aiming to consistently improve and identifying a failing group with the hope of turning them around is a good thing, the point I'm trying to make is the schools are working, that it is not their fault that white working class pupils are falling behind, that failure lies at their own door.
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Sorry don't see it that way. Firstly it is a phenomenon the world over that many immigrant parents want to make the best of the new opportunities afforded to them in their 'new' country. This is well documented and a good thing that their sons and daughters are 'pushed harder'. So that same thing isn't really seen to the same extent in the indigenous poorer population as a whole.
But that aside those that generally do better in society tend to go to better schools in better areas that have the better teachers etc etc. It is nothing new but an old problem that is still with us. We should be looking to give those from disadvantaged areas as good an education but often it is lacking
------------------------
Of course immigrant families grasp our education system,most come from countries where a free eduction is a rare commodity,regarding the indigenous population many young white pupils come from disenfranchised families where education is not a priority,many children do well mainly down to their own will to get on and move up in society,in many cases you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
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Exactly.

Tbab

You say 'exactly' but you were blaming everybody for the failure of white working class pupils falling behind their peers.

Cheers other posters such as cal and groovy for elaborating on my basic point, that leaving behind white working class children and famillies is not good them or for society.

I was suprised some adopted a rather tory right wing stance on the massive problem of poor education and employment prospects among the folk labour and corbyn are meant to look after?

Obviously, some can slate white working class ignorance, lazinesses, drug and drink abuse, single parents, reliance on benefits, lack of schoolng support from chiav type parents etc etc.....However, replace the words, "white working class" with any other group, in the uk, usa or Eu and they would not be dumped on, especially by the leftists.

Just sayin like.

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comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 1 minute ago
Of course schools should be aiming to consistently improve and identifying a failing group with the hope of turning them around is a good thing, the point I'm trying to make is the schools are working, that it is not their fault that white working class pupils are falling behind, that failure lies at their own door.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry don't see it that way. Firstly it is a phenomenon the world over that many immigrant parents want to make the best of the new opportunities afforded to them in their 'new' country. This is well documented and a good thing that their sons and daughters are 'pushed harder'. So that same thing isn't really seen to the same extent in the indigenous poorer population as a whole.
But that aside those that generally do better in society tend to go to better schools in better areas that have the better teachers etc etc. It is nothing new but an old problem that is still with us. We should be looking to give those from disadvantaged areas as good an education but often it is lacking.
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Good points and Happy Christmas, cal.


Leeds,leeds, leeds