Mountain vs The hound was epic. “Why won’t you fecking die!!”
--------------------------------------------------
Reminded me too much of Freddy vs. Jason, especially that line. It was good for a laugh, and maybe that was the point, but I expected something else.
I actually called the ending to it before the series started, Hound pushes them both into a pit of fire, but I imagined him doing it in a suicide effort to save Arya or Sansa. And if that had happened, i.e. Arya ignores him, jumps in at the last second and is about to get killed.... it would've work SO much better.
comment by Son Of Gunnersaurus a.k.a SoG (U1310)
posted 1 hour, 20 minutes ago
Bit disappointed that a lot of character arcs seem to have totally been thrown out the window. Why the fack would Jaime go back to Cersei?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Could you expand on that?
I found Danerys arc one of the most satisfactory of any I can recall.
For all the promises and the willingness to do good, she was always bound to her fate as a Targaeryn.
Over the seasons, her council kept her on path. Jorah, Missandrei and Tyrion etc.
Once they were stripped away, it tipped her over the edge and as we were told with some beautiful foreboding “A Targaryen alone is a terrible thing.”
Everyone who died in that episode, did so because they couldn’t turn away from the demons that had driven them...
Clegane - Revenge
Jaime - Cersei
Qyburn - The Mountain
Cersei - arrogance
It ended up costing them their lives yet the two who turned away from it were Arya (revenge) and Jon (loyalty) - both survived the battle.
To suggest that the arcs aren’t satisfactory is crazy as far as I’m concerned. The last thing this show needed was a predictable finish.
There are some online calling for a boycott because Cersei didn’t die a brutal death (debatable) - but that would’ve been appealing to the masses.
I thought it was an exceptional episode of television.
comment by (kash) I'm the Mané (U1108)
posted 2 hours, 39 minutes ago
That was a poor episode. Sure Danny has become the mad queen but that was way over the top. Taking out the whole city when the castle was right in front of her.
Also an anticlimactic battle. Last week we see Greyjoy with this new arrow equipment but in this episode the dragon takes them all out in 2 mins. The dragon had the battle won right from the start.
On to Cersi who was this queen biaatch. Huge buildup about her character and she dies with a whimper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were told this over and over. They were never a match for the Dragon. Tyrion said it to Jaime about 5 times in this episode alone.
It wasn’t about a big battle - it was about how the demons of each character had driven them to this point.
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Son Of Gunnersaurus a.k.a SoG (U1310)
posted 1 hour, 20 minutes ago
Bit disappointed that a lot of character arcs seem to have totally been thrown out the window. Why the fack would Jaime go back to Cersei?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Could you expand on that?
I found Danerys arc one of the most satisfactory of any I can recall.
For all the promises and the willingness to do good, she was always bound to her fate as a Targaeryn.
Over the seasons, her council kept her on path. Jorah, Missandrei and Tyrion etc.
Once they were stripped away, it tipped her over the edge and as we were told with some beautiful foreboding “A Targaryen alone is a terrible thing.”
Everyone who died in that episode, did so because they couldn’t turn away from the demons that had driven them...
Clegane - Revenge
Jaime - Cersei
Qyburn - The Mountain
Cersei - arrogance
It ended up costing them their lives yet the two who turned away from it were Arya (revenge) and Jon (loyalty) - both survived the battle.
To suggest that the arcs aren’t satisfactory is crazy as far as I’m concerned. The last thing this show needed was a predictable finish.
There are some online calling for a boycott because Cersei didn’t die a brutal death (debatable) - but that would’ve been appealing to the masses.
I thought it was an exceptional episode of television.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well said.
I think some people need to step back for a bit and have a think about what they've just watched before going straight to rant on the internet (not speaking about this thread btw, just in general)
Yeah, some of the things are a bit daft. The wildly varying accuracy of the scorpion from episode to episode. How the hell Jaime was still walking around after that fight with Euron I dont know. And etc. But you can overlook these things I think.
How anyone can be dissatisfied with the character development though, I dont know. Metro has put it very well.
I found Danerys arc one of the most satisfactory of any I can recall.
For all the promises and the willingness to do good, she was always bound to her fate as a Targaeryn.
Over the seasons, her council kept her on path. Jorah, Missandrei and Tyrion etc.
Once they were stripped away, it tipped her over the edge and as we were told with some beautiful foreboding “A Targaryen alone is a terrible thing.”
-----------------------------------------------------
Nope, weak justification for half baked writing.
What always made Dany's character arc unique was being the one we as the audience saw in it's entirety, no backstory. So the writers had an obligation to do hers' justice more than anyone else's on the show because we can't be conned where she's concerned - we know precisely what she would and wouldn't do in any given situation. Saying she was doomed to madness because she's a Targaryen when the entire point of her character was not being her father is an insult to fans intelligence.
She would go mental and slaughter the Lannister army even after they surrendered in a fit of rage moment, I'd buy that , or wrecked the Red Keep but left the city alone, but she'd never open fire on the citizens without feeling they betrayed her directly. The fact her justification there seems to be how she's been treated by the royalty of Westeros (Jon, Sansa, Tyrion, etc...) only further proves how weak the writing was as Dany's was always about transcending the one's in power (e.g. the slave masters) and connecting with the people who live under their rule.
Don't get me wrong. With better writing and far more time dedicated to it as a concept she could've been a phenomenal villain, but instead we get someone who saw red mist after hearing bells.
Considering how they've done it they could've at least had the cheap fan service "Burn them all" line from her - didn't even get that
One funny thing I noticed re-watching it tonight was Euron's almost fourth wall breaking "I killed Jaime Lannister" line.
I swear that was the writers taking the p!ss. Two big middle fingers saying 'we know you don't like this character, but FU we do, so take that'
comment by Devil D.A. (U6522)
posted 2 minutes ago
I found Danerys arc one of the most satisfactory of any I can recall.
For all the promises and the willingness to do good, she was always bound to her fate as a Targaeryn.
Over the seasons, her council kept her on path. Jorah, Missandrei and Tyrion etc.
Once they were stripped away, it tipped her over the edge and as we were told with some beautiful foreboding “A Targaryen alone is a terrible thing.”
-----------------------------------------------------
Nope, weak justification for half baked writing.
What always made Dany's character arc unique was being the one we as the audience saw in it's entirety, no backstory. So the writers had an obligation to do hers' justice more than anyone else's on the show because we can't be conned where she's concerned - we know precisely what she would and wouldn't do in any given situation. Saying she was doomed to madness because she's a Targaryen when the entire point of her character was not being her father is an insult to fans intelligence.
She would go mental and slaughter the Lannister army even after they surrendered in a fit of rage moment, I'd buy that , or wrecked the Red Keep but left the city alone, but she'd never open fire on the citizens without feeling they betrayed her directly. The fact her justification there seems to be how she's been treated by the royalty of Westeros (Jon, Sansa, Tyrion, etc...) only further proves how weak the writing was as Dany's was always about transcending the one's in power (e.g. the slave masters) and connecting with the people who live under their rule.
Don't get me wrong. With better writing and far more time dedicated to it as a concept she could've been a phenomenal villain, but instead we get someone who saw red mist after hearing bells.
Considering how they've done it they could've at least had the cheap fan service "Burn them all" line from her - didn't even get that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The idea that a characters motivation must play out as they intend is, I’m sorry to say, ludicrous. Daenerys could’ve been a good leader. Tyrion and Varys both thought this. But her thirst for the Iron Throne made her irrational. This is the woman who had lost all her council and it tipped her over the edge.
It is precisely the fact that she claimed to be the breaker of chains why this was so heart-wrenching. She had fallen prey to the very demon she had strived to avoid.
As for not understanding why she’d burn the citizens, you say there was no justification and that Dany's was always about transcending the one's in power. Again, this goes back to having a characters arc play out purely based off their intentions. That would be a bizarre way to tell a story. Everyone’s concluded arc would be nothing more than the confirmation of their aspirations. Saying you want to be the breaker of chains should not mean your character reneges on that very promise.
She’s the character that has killed more people than anyone in the entire show and not all were people of power. The desire to sit on the Iron Throne has been pretty obvious for years. The killing of Lord Varys showed us what she will do to ensure that intent.
You also label her a villain. I say she’s a tragic hero. She desperately wanted to be a good ruler but her bloodline was always a factor, as was Jon’s secret, as was the murder of Jorah and Missandre.
All the clues where there that she’d turn rogue. I’m amazed anyone missed it.
Has this just turned into reddit...?
I don’t think anyone should it does have an issue with Dany turning into the mad queen. I think they have an issue with the pacing that has meant they’ve had to rush that descent, as they have had to with a lot of the character development over the last couple of seasons. The end result of each character is almost fair enough, GoTs best bits have always been about the journey though that leads to the payoff - this and last season they’ve rushed it in order to get all the pieces and players in place needed for the endgame.
Two seasons of ten episodes each last season and this one would have sorted it out so much. I’m just not sure they could have done the development of the characters justice anyway without the source material, they’d have probably foreshadowed too much given the state of the dialogue recently.
The idea that a characters motivation must play out as they intend is, I’m sorry to say, ludicrous. Daenerys could’ve been a good leader. Tyrion and Varys both thought this. But her thirst for the Iron Throne made her irrational. This is the woman who had lost all her council and it tipped her over the edge.
It is precisely the fact that she claimed to be the breaker of chains why this was so heart-wrenching. She had fallen prey to the very demon she had strived to avoid.
As for not understanding why she’d burn the citizens, you say there was no justification and that Dany's was always about transcending the one's in power. Again, this goes back to having a characters arc play out purely based off their intentions. That would be a bizarre way to tell a story. Everyone’s concluded arc would be nothing more than the confirmation of their aspirations. Saying you want to be the breaker of chains should not mean your character reneges on that very promise.
She’s the character that has killed more people than anyone in the entire show and not all were people of power. The desire to sit on the Iron Throne has been pretty obvious for years. The killing of Lord Varys showed us what she will do to ensure that intent.
You also label her a villain. I say she’s a tragic hero. She desperately wanted to be a good ruler but her bloodline was always a factor, as was Jon’s secret, as was the murder of Jorah and Missandre.
All the clues where there that she’d turn rogue. I’m amazed anyone missed it.
------------------------------------------------
You completely missed the point I was making. Of course characters can lose their way and become victims of their surroundings, circumstances, personal demons, etc... but depending on the strength of the characters arc it doesn't fundamentally change who they are.... e.g. Cersci at the end of this episode, once all the power was stripped from her who she really was came to the surface again, nothing but fear and regret for how she failed her unborn child (total abuse of her character in this episode aside, that was spot on).
Dany's desire to rule was always intertwined with a genuine care for the people she hoped to rule, in S5 she kept her "children" in chains out of a sense of doing right by the people. Of course she can lose her way and have those desires conflict, but a character with an arc as strong as hers can't just have one override the other without a damn good reason - and losing her advisers, feeling conspired by those currently in power isn't good enough. It just isn't.
It made her come across in hindsight as a character who only ever cared about power and only saw the people as a means to keep it, which we know isn't true. Was sloppy, incredibly rushed writing.
Exactly that. The fact she was going to turn mad eventually was obvious, it’s more they rushed the descent into it that’s the issue.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 6 hours, 30 minutes ago
Exactly that. The fact she was going to turn mad eventually was obvious, it’s more they rushed the descent into it that’s the issue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many episodes did people need to show that she wasn’t the perfect Queen that Tyrion and Varys had hoped.
It’s been evident for some time now. Small instances like when she burnt the Tarleys alive. Go back and watch the look on Tyrion’s face in that moment. The doubts are already there.
In fact, go back though the last few seasons and there are many instances where Daenerys starts to show signs of her merciless side.
The loss of her council and her dragons was a huge blow. She even said in this very episode that killing the innocent people isn’t what she wants but if it saved future generations then there’s is grounds to destroy the City.
I don’t think we needed the slow drip of Daenerys becoming more irrational with every episode. It needed a brief moment for it to trigger and her arc and circumstances made it not only satisfactory but in her own eyes, justifiable.
Still team dany, kings landing was a shiiithole anyway. Fack the people
Torching Kings Landing is one of the best things about this season. But in typical fashion for this season, it just didn't play out right.
comment by Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 21 minutes ago
Torching Kings Landing is one of the best things about this season. But in typical fashion for this season, it just didn't play out right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Any reason why you've come to that conclusion?
It was just used for shock value more than it felt part of the story. Like the Night King's death.
I really feel like the Red Wedding forever doomed the show and television for the foreseeable future.
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 6 hours, 30 minutes ago
Exactly that. The fact she was going to turn mad eventually was obvious, it’s more they rushed the descent into it that’s the issue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many episodes did people need to show that she wasn’t the perfect Queen that Tyrion and Varys had hoped.
It’s been evident for some time now. Small instances like when she burnt the Tarleys alive. Go back and watch the look on Tyrion’s face in that moment. The doubts are already there.
In fact, go back though the last few seasons and there are many instances where Daenerys starts to show signs of her merciless side.
The loss of her council and her dragons was a huge blow. She even said in this very episode that killing the innocent people isn’t what she wants but if it saved future generations then there’s is grounds to destroy the City.
I don’t think we needed the slow drip of Daenerys becoming more irrational with every episode. It needed a brief moment for it to trigger and her arc and circumstances made it not only satisfactory but in her own eyes, justifiable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s less about time showing what she did (as I already said, it was obvious anyway), it’s more how they did it. It’s gone from nuance both in characters and in the world to really simple telegraphing in order to make things happen quickly. They’ve pressed fast forward and I’m not sure how pointing out how blindingly obvious they now make everything is adding any weight to the counter argument...
I hope the next episode ends with Bran waking up from the coma he went into after being pushed out of that window by Jaime in the first episode. It was all a dream and got more frantic at the end as it was just as he was waking up.
It would be the best troll of all time.
I actually wouldn't be mad at something like that lol
I think this summary shows that they were foreshadowing Danys lunacy
https://youtu.be/dJIj9L_NU2Q
Dany's mental stability has always been questioned in the books. In the show however there were really subtle hints but we've only really seen it since s7, more specifically the killing of the Tarly's.
However Stannis killed Mance Rayder because he didn't want to bend the knee. No-one questioned Stannis' mental health so I don't understand why Dany is being questioned as crazy for doing the same to the Tarlys. It's basically tradition to kill your enemy if they don't surrender and accept your rule.
Contradictions hey...
comment by Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 35 minutes ago
Dany's mental stability has always been questioned in the books. In the show however there were really subtle hints but we've only really seen it since s7, more specifically the killing of the Tarly's.
However Stannis killed Mance Rayder because he didn't want to bend the knee. No-one questioned Stannis' mental health so I don't understand why Dany is being questioned as crazy for doing the same to the Tarlys. It's basically tradition to kill your enemy if they don't surrender and accept your rule.
Contradictions hey...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because she claimed to be different.
There definitely hasn't been enough build up for Dany to suddenly turn in the way she has and purposely kill thousands of innocent people like she just did.
Ok we've seen her being very cruel before, for example crucifying a whole bunch of people but that's only when they turned against her or wouldn't accept her rule.
The innocent civilians of King's Landing were never given a chance so for Dany to essentially wipe out the population of King's Landing is way over the top.
She's suddenly gone from the main protagonist of the show to mass murderer of innocents without any real justification.
It’s been pretty obvious all the way through. The issue more this season has been how they’ve created the events that have led to her finally turning. Missandeis capture, the secret about Jon getting to Varys in basically two scenes (one of which they inexplicably didn’t even show), the sudden complete ineptitude of her advisors. They could have done that through manipulation and intrigue, as they did in everything up to the last couple of seasons. Instead, we’ve had all of that (seemingly) happen off screen so they can show more of a battle that doesn’t say anything new, however impressive it looks, after the first ten minutes of it.
Dany’s whole character arc has been about what kind of Targaryen she was going to be, she’s been told numerous times about the actions of her father and the choices she’s had as a leader. I just find it a real shame that in order for her to make that turn, they’ve sacrificed other characters completely to speed it up.
I was actually fine with all of it up to episode four of this season too, I thought the night king episode was fine.
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GoT final season
Page 15 of 33
16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20
posted on 13/5/19
Mountain vs The hound was epic. “Why won’t you fecking die!!”
--------------------------------------------------
Reminded me too much of Freddy vs. Jason, especially that line. It was good for a laugh, and maybe that was the point, but I expected something else.
I actually called the ending to it before the series started, Hound pushes them both into a pit of fire, but I imagined him doing it in a suicide effort to save Arya or Sansa. And if that had happened, i.e. Arya ignores him, jumps in at the last second and is about to get killed.... it would've work SO much better.
posted on 13/5/19
comment by Son Of Gunnersaurus a.k.a SoG (U1310)
posted 1 hour, 20 minutes ago
Bit disappointed that a lot of character arcs seem to have totally been thrown out the window. Why the fack would Jaime go back to Cersei?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Could you expand on that?
I found Danerys arc one of the most satisfactory of any I can recall.
For all the promises and the willingness to do good, she was always bound to her fate as a Targaeryn.
Over the seasons, her council kept her on path. Jorah, Missandrei and Tyrion etc.
Once they were stripped away, it tipped her over the edge and as we were told with some beautiful foreboding “A Targaryen alone is a terrible thing.”
Everyone who died in that episode, did so because they couldn’t turn away from the demons that had driven them...
Clegane - Revenge
Jaime - Cersei
Qyburn - The Mountain
Cersei - arrogance
It ended up costing them their lives yet the two who turned away from it were Arya (revenge) and Jon (loyalty) - both survived the battle.
To suggest that the arcs aren’t satisfactory is crazy as far as I’m concerned. The last thing this show needed was a predictable finish.
There are some online calling for a boycott because Cersei didn’t die a brutal death (debatable) - but that would’ve been appealing to the masses.
I thought it was an exceptional episode of television.
posted on 13/5/19
comment by (kash) I'm the Mané (U1108)
posted 2 hours, 39 minutes ago
That was a poor episode. Sure Danny has become the mad queen but that was way over the top. Taking out the whole city when the castle was right in front of her.
Also an anticlimactic battle. Last week we see Greyjoy with this new arrow equipment but in this episode the dragon takes them all out in 2 mins. The dragon had the battle won right from the start.
On to Cersi who was this queen biaatch. Huge buildup about her character and she dies with a whimper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were told this over and over. They were never a match for the Dragon. Tyrion said it to Jaime about 5 times in this episode alone.
It wasn’t about a big battle - it was about how the demons of each character had driven them to this point.
posted on 13/5/19
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Son Of Gunnersaurus a.k.a SoG (U1310)
posted 1 hour, 20 minutes ago
Bit disappointed that a lot of character arcs seem to have totally been thrown out the window. Why the fack would Jaime go back to Cersei?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Could you expand on that?
I found Danerys arc one of the most satisfactory of any I can recall.
For all the promises and the willingness to do good, she was always bound to her fate as a Targaeryn.
Over the seasons, her council kept her on path. Jorah, Missandrei and Tyrion etc.
Once they were stripped away, it tipped her over the edge and as we were told with some beautiful foreboding “A Targaryen alone is a terrible thing.”
Everyone who died in that episode, did so because they couldn’t turn away from the demons that had driven them...
Clegane - Revenge
Jaime - Cersei
Qyburn - The Mountain
Cersei - arrogance
It ended up costing them their lives yet the two who turned away from it were Arya (revenge) and Jon (loyalty) - both survived the battle.
To suggest that the arcs aren’t satisfactory is crazy as far as I’m concerned. The last thing this show needed was a predictable finish.
There are some online calling for a boycott because Cersei didn’t die a brutal death (debatable) - but that would’ve been appealing to the masses.
I thought it was an exceptional episode of television.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well said.
posted on 13/5/19
I think some people need to step back for a bit and have a think about what they've just watched before going straight to rant on the internet (not speaking about this thread btw, just in general)
Yeah, some of the things are a bit daft. The wildly varying accuracy of the scorpion from episode to episode. How the hell Jaime was still walking around after that fight with Euron I dont know. And etc. But you can overlook these things I think.
How anyone can be dissatisfied with the character development though, I dont know. Metro has put it very well.
posted on 13/5/19
I found Danerys arc one of the most satisfactory of any I can recall.
For all the promises and the willingness to do good, she was always bound to her fate as a Targaeryn.
Over the seasons, her council kept her on path. Jorah, Missandrei and Tyrion etc.
Once they were stripped away, it tipped her over the edge and as we were told with some beautiful foreboding “A Targaryen alone is a terrible thing.”
-----------------------------------------------------
Nope, weak justification for half baked writing.
What always made Dany's character arc unique was being the one we as the audience saw in it's entirety, no backstory. So the writers had an obligation to do hers' justice more than anyone else's on the show because we can't be conned where she's concerned - we know precisely what she would and wouldn't do in any given situation. Saying she was doomed to madness because she's a Targaryen when the entire point of her character was not being her father is an insult to fans intelligence.
She would go mental and slaughter the Lannister army even after they surrendered in a fit of rage moment, I'd buy that , or wrecked the Red Keep but left the city alone, but she'd never open fire on the citizens without feeling they betrayed her directly. The fact her justification there seems to be how she's been treated by the royalty of Westeros (Jon, Sansa, Tyrion, etc...) only further proves how weak the writing was as Dany's was always about transcending the one's in power (e.g. the slave masters) and connecting with the people who live under their rule.
Don't get me wrong. With better writing and far more time dedicated to it as a concept she could've been a phenomenal villain, but instead we get someone who saw red mist after hearing bells.
Considering how they've done it they could've at least had the cheap fan service "Burn them all" line from her - didn't even get that
posted on 13/5/19
One funny thing I noticed re-watching it tonight was Euron's almost fourth wall breaking "I killed Jaime Lannister" line.
I swear that was the writers taking the p!ss. Two big middle fingers saying 'we know you don't like this character, but FU we do, so take that'
posted on 14/5/19
comment by Devil D.A. (U6522)
posted 2 minutes ago
I found Danerys arc one of the most satisfactory of any I can recall.
For all the promises and the willingness to do good, she was always bound to her fate as a Targaeryn.
Over the seasons, her council kept her on path. Jorah, Missandrei and Tyrion etc.
Once they were stripped away, it tipped her over the edge and as we were told with some beautiful foreboding “A Targaryen alone is a terrible thing.”
-----------------------------------------------------
Nope, weak justification for half baked writing.
What always made Dany's character arc unique was being the one we as the audience saw in it's entirety, no backstory. So the writers had an obligation to do hers' justice more than anyone else's on the show because we can't be conned where she's concerned - we know precisely what she would and wouldn't do in any given situation. Saying she was doomed to madness because she's a Targaryen when the entire point of her character was not being her father is an insult to fans intelligence.
She would go mental and slaughter the Lannister army even after they surrendered in a fit of rage moment, I'd buy that , or wrecked the Red Keep but left the city alone, but she'd never open fire on the citizens without feeling they betrayed her directly. The fact her justification there seems to be how she's been treated by the royalty of Westeros (Jon, Sansa, Tyrion, etc...) only further proves how weak the writing was as Dany's was always about transcending the one's in power (e.g. the slave masters) and connecting with the people who live under their rule.
Don't get me wrong. With better writing and far more time dedicated to it as a concept she could've been a phenomenal villain, but instead we get someone who saw red mist after hearing bells.
Considering how they've done it they could've at least had the cheap fan service "Burn them all" line from her - didn't even get that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The idea that a characters motivation must play out as they intend is, I’m sorry to say, ludicrous. Daenerys could’ve been a good leader. Tyrion and Varys both thought this. But her thirst for the Iron Throne made her irrational. This is the woman who had lost all her council and it tipped her over the edge.
It is precisely the fact that she claimed to be the breaker of chains why this was so heart-wrenching. She had fallen prey to the very demon she had strived to avoid.
As for not understanding why she’d burn the citizens, you say there was no justification and that Dany's was always about transcending the one's in power. Again, this goes back to having a characters arc play out purely based off their intentions. That would be a bizarre way to tell a story. Everyone’s concluded arc would be nothing more than the confirmation of their aspirations. Saying you want to be the breaker of chains should not mean your character reneges on that very promise.
She’s the character that has killed more people than anyone in the entire show and not all were people of power. The desire to sit on the Iron Throne has been pretty obvious for years. The killing of Lord Varys showed us what she will do to ensure that intent.
You also label her a villain. I say she’s a tragic hero. She desperately wanted to be a good ruler but her bloodline was always a factor, as was Jon’s secret, as was the murder of Jorah and Missandre.
All the clues where there that she’d turn rogue. I’m amazed anyone missed it.
posted on 14/5/19
Has this just turned into reddit...?
posted on 14/5/19
I don’t think anyone should it does have an issue with Dany turning into the mad queen. I think they have an issue with the pacing that has meant they’ve had to rush that descent, as they have had to with a lot of the character development over the last couple of seasons. The end result of each character is almost fair enough, GoTs best bits have always been about the journey though that leads to the payoff - this and last season they’ve rushed it in order to get all the pieces and players in place needed for the endgame.
Two seasons of ten episodes each last season and this one would have sorted it out so much. I’m just not sure they could have done the development of the characters justice anyway without the source material, they’d have probably foreshadowed too much given the state of the dialogue recently.
posted on 14/5/19
The idea that a characters motivation must play out as they intend is, I’m sorry to say, ludicrous. Daenerys could’ve been a good leader. Tyrion and Varys both thought this. But her thirst for the Iron Throne made her irrational. This is the woman who had lost all her council and it tipped her over the edge.
It is precisely the fact that she claimed to be the breaker of chains why this was so heart-wrenching. She had fallen prey to the very demon she had strived to avoid.
As for not understanding why she’d burn the citizens, you say there was no justification and that Dany's was always about transcending the one's in power. Again, this goes back to having a characters arc play out purely based off their intentions. That would be a bizarre way to tell a story. Everyone’s concluded arc would be nothing more than the confirmation of their aspirations. Saying you want to be the breaker of chains should not mean your character reneges on that very promise.
She’s the character that has killed more people than anyone in the entire show and not all were people of power. The desire to sit on the Iron Throne has been pretty obvious for years. The killing of Lord Varys showed us what she will do to ensure that intent.
You also label her a villain. I say she’s a tragic hero. She desperately wanted to be a good ruler but her bloodline was always a factor, as was Jon’s secret, as was the murder of Jorah and Missandre.
All the clues where there that she’d turn rogue. I’m amazed anyone missed it.
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You completely missed the point I was making. Of course characters can lose their way and become victims of their surroundings, circumstances, personal demons, etc... but depending on the strength of the characters arc it doesn't fundamentally change who they are.... e.g. Cersci at the end of this episode, once all the power was stripped from her who she really was came to the surface again, nothing but fear and regret for how she failed her unborn child (total abuse of her character in this episode aside, that was spot on).
Dany's desire to rule was always intertwined with a genuine care for the people she hoped to rule, in S5 she kept her "children" in chains out of a sense of doing right by the people. Of course she can lose her way and have those desires conflict, but a character with an arc as strong as hers can't just have one override the other without a damn good reason - and losing her advisers, feeling conspired by those currently in power isn't good enough. It just isn't.
It made her come across in hindsight as a character who only ever cared about power and only saw the people as a means to keep it, which we know isn't true. Was sloppy, incredibly rushed writing.
posted on 14/5/19
Exactly that. The fact she was going to turn mad eventually was obvious, it’s more they rushed the descent into it that’s the issue.
posted on 14/5/19
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 6 hours, 30 minutes ago
Exactly that. The fact she was going to turn mad eventually was obvious, it’s more they rushed the descent into it that’s the issue.
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How many episodes did people need to show that she wasn’t the perfect Queen that Tyrion and Varys had hoped.
It’s been evident for some time now. Small instances like when she burnt the Tarleys alive. Go back and watch the look on Tyrion’s face in that moment. The doubts are already there.
In fact, go back though the last few seasons and there are many instances where Daenerys starts to show signs of her merciless side.
The loss of her council and her dragons was a huge blow. She even said in this very episode that killing the innocent people isn’t what she wants but if it saved future generations then there’s is grounds to destroy the City.
I don’t think we needed the slow drip of Daenerys becoming more irrational with every episode. It needed a brief moment for it to trigger and her arc and circumstances made it not only satisfactory but in her own eyes, justifiable.
posted on 14/5/19
Still team dany, kings landing was a shiiithole anyway. Fack the people
posted on 14/5/19
Torching Kings Landing is one of the best things about this season. But in typical fashion for this season, it just didn't play out right.
posted on 14/5/19
comment by Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 21 minutes ago
Torching Kings Landing is one of the best things about this season. But in typical fashion for this season, it just didn't play out right.
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Any reason why you've come to that conclusion?
posted on 14/5/19
It was just used for shock value more than it felt part of the story. Like the Night King's death.
I really feel like the Red Wedding forever doomed the show and television for the foreseeable future.
posted on 14/5/19
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 6 hours, 30 minutes ago
Exactly that. The fact she was going to turn mad eventually was obvious, it’s more they rushed the descent into it that’s the issue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many episodes did people need to show that she wasn’t the perfect Queen that Tyrion and Varys had hoped.
It’s been evident for some time now. Small instances like when she burnt the Tarleys alive. Go back and watch the look on Tyrion’s face in that moment. The doubts are already there.
In fact, go back though the last few seasons and there are many instances where Daenerys starts to show signs of her merciless side.
The loss of her council and her dragons was a huge blow. She even said in this very episode that killing the innocent people isn’t what she wants but if it saved future generations then there’s is grounds to destroy the City.
I don’t think we needed the slow drip of Daenerys becoming more irrational with every episode. It needed a brief moment for it to trigger and her arc and circumstances made it not only satisfactory but in her own eyes, justifiable.
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It’s less about time showing what she did (as I already said, it was obvious anyway), it’s more how they did it. It’s gone from nuance both in characters and in the world to really simple telegraphing in order to make things happen quickly. They’ve pressed fast forward and I’m not sure how pointing out how blindingly obvious they now make everything is adding any weight to the counter argument...
posted on 14/5/19
I hope the next episode ends with Bran waking up from the coma he went into after being pushed out of that window by Jaime in the first episode. It was all a dream and got more frantic at the end as it was just as he was waking up.
It would be the best troll of all time.
posted on 14/5/19
I actually wouldn't be mad at something like that lol
posted on 14/5/19
I think this summary shows that they were foreshadowing Danys lunacy
https://youtu.be/dJIj9L_NU2Q
posted on 14/5/19
Dany's mental stability has always been questioned in the books. In the show however there were really subtle hints but we've only really seen it since s7, more specifically the killing of the Tarly's.
However Stannis killed Mance Rayder because he didn't want to bend the knee. No-one questioned Stannis' mental health so I don't understand why Dany is being questioned as crazy for doing the same to the Tarlys. It's basically tradition to kill your enemy if they don't surrender and accept your rule.
Contradictions hey...
posted on 14/5/19
comment by Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 35 minutes ago
Dany's mental stability has always been questioned in the books. In the show however there were really subtle hints but we've only really seen it since s7, more specifically the killing of the Tarly's.
However Stannis killed Mance Rayder because he didn't want to bend the knee. No-one questioned Stannis' mental health so I don't understand why Dany is being questioned as crazy for doing the same to the Tarlys. It's basically tradition to kill your enemy if they don't surrender and accept your rule.
Contradictions hey...
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Because she claimed to be different.
posted on 14/5/19
There definitely hasn't been enough build up for Dany to suddenly turn in the way she has and purposely kill thousands of innocent people like she just did.
Ok we've seen her being very cruel before, for example crucifying a whole bunch of people but that's only when they turned against her or wouldn't accept her rule.
The innocent civilians of King's Landing were never given a chance so for Dany to essentially wipe out the population of King's Landing is way over the top.
She's suddenly gone from the main protagonist of the show to mass murderer of innocents without any real justification.
posted on 14/5/19
It’s been pretty obvious all the way through. The issue more this season has been how they’ve created the events that have led to her finally turning. Missandeis capture, the secret about Jon getting to Varys in basically two scenes (one of which they inexplicably didn’t even show), the sudden complete ineptitude of her advisors. They could have done that through manipulation and intrigue, as they did in everything up to the last couple of seasons. Instead, we’ve had all of that (seemingly) happen off screen so they can show more of a battle that doesn’t say anything new, however impressive it looks, after the first ten minutes of it.
Dany’s whole character arc has been about what kind of Targaryen she was going to be, she’s been told numerous times about the actions of her father and the choices she’s had as a leader. I just find it a real shame that in order for her to make that turn, they’ve sacrificed other characters completely to speed it up.
I was actually fine with all of it up to episode four of this season too, I thought the night king episode was fine.
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