comment by Doggie Dog© (U22357)
posted 3 minutes ago
For the teams seeking promotion, the season has pretty much been voided. All for nothing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you. Exactly my point.
I’m trying to stick up for you pranks ffs I’m for the league resuming
comment by Prankster - I love myself better than you. (U22336)
posted 2 minutes ago
The Dutch league ain’t voided, it’s cancelled and there’s a massive difference ffs.
Standings still count for EL and CL however no title and relegation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its a bit of both.
Its completely voided for potential winners and relegation threatened teams but current positions stand for European places.
Once again I can't help but think a half decent lawyer would make mincemeat out of the Dutch top brass over this.
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Prankster - I love myself better than you. (U22336)
posted 2 minutes ago
The Dutch league ain’t voided, it’s cancelled and there’s a massive difference ffs.
Standings still count for EL and CL however no title and relegation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its a bit of both.
Its completely voided for potential winners and relegation threatened teams but current positions stand for European places.
Once again I can't help but think a half decent lawyer would make mincemeat out of the Dutch top brass over this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep exactly, bit of both
If the league is void, then Liverpool don’t win the title, so in your minds, it’s basically void. Doesn’t frigging matter if your position counts and you get CL, you will lose the league as it won’t be handed out to anyone. They won’t award a title when it’s mathematically possible for another team to win it. So the only fair way would be to finish the season.
If it was voided then they wouldn’t take current standings for European competitions.
You can’t have it both ways, hence cancelled not voided.
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by Doggie Dog© (U22357)
posted 3 minutes ago
For the teams seeking promotion, the season has pretty much been voided. All for nothing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you. Exactly my point.
I’m trying to stick up for you pranks ffsI’m for the league resuming
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’re cool, just a slight difference of opinion on this.
comment by Prankster - I love myself better than you. (U22336)
posted 2 minutes ago
If it was voided then they wouldn’t take current standings for European competitions.
You can’t have it both ways, hence cancelled not voided.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No its a bit of both because if it was cancelled then as well as European places, league winners and relegation spots would count.
The argument works both ways.
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Prankster - I love myself better than you. (U22336)
posted 2 minutes ago
If it was voided then they wouldn’t take current standings for European competitions.
You can’t have it both ways, hence cancelled not voided.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No its a bit of both because if it was cancelled then as well as European places, league winners and relegation spots would count.
The argument works both ways.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope, if it was voided it would be expunged and would mean nothing.
The fact they are using current standings means the season stands and hasn’t been voided.
comment by Prankster - I love myself better than you. (U22336)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Prankster - I love myself better than you. (U22336)
posted 2 minutes ago
If it was voided then they wouldn’t take current standings for European competitions.
You can’t have it both ways, hence cancelled not voided.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No its a bit of both because if it was cancelled then as well as European places, league winners and relegation spots would count.
The argument works both ways.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope, if it was voided it would be expunged and would mean nothing.
The fact they are using current standings means the season stands and hasn’t been voided.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Haha, and so it goes on.
If Liverpool aren't proclaimed winners then thats a big bad void.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8257189/OLIVER-HOLT-Voiding-season-just-victory-greed-fear.html
Take note Billy and Co. Exactly how I feel a lot of people want the season voided for, to spite certain teams.
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 9 minutes ago
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8257189/OLIVER-HOLT-Voiding-season-just-victory-greed-fear.html
Take note Billy and Co. Exactly how I feel a lot of people want the season voided for, to spite certain teams.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don can you just agree with Billy now please, this is getting ridiculous, you're not allowed to agree with fans outside your own club on a forum ffs
This will end in tears 😅
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 9 minutes ago
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8257189/OLIVER-HOLT-Voiding-season-just-victory-greed-fear.html
Take note Billy and Co. Exactly how I feel a lot of people want the season voided for, to spite certain teams.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don can you just agree with Billy now please, this is getting ridiculous, you're not allowed to agree with fans outside your own club on a forum ffs
This will end in tears 😅
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On a serious note, if delaying the season and then completing it means less teams fold, that's the right call.
In holland it made sense to cancel. It will save many clubs. In the PL I feel completing the games will have the same effect.
It'll be good prep for next season when I think at least half of the season will be behind closed doors.
If we need to be patient to save lifes and the game as we know it, so be it.
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 13 hours, 14 minutes ago
If the league is void, then Liverpool don’t win the title, so in your minds, it’s basically void. Doesn’t frigging matter if your position counts and you get CL, you will lose the league as it won’t be handed out to anyone. They won’t award a title when it’s mathematically possible for another team to win it. So the only fair way would be to finish the season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mathematically possible? Assuming this is correct then we cant just bring in this rule for the title and ignore it everywhere else IMO.
By this logic, any team that can mathematically achieve CL or Europa league football cannot be denied that opportunity. Nothing in the league as it stands has been mathematically achieved yet. People saying you can't award this or that because its not mathematically achieved but then applying that selectively to suit their preferences.
If Liverpool can mathematically be caught then so can Man City, Leicester, Chelsea and every other team all the way down the football pyramid. Liverpool are 25 points clear and can be caught? That means everyone can be caught.
What do top 4 teams usually get? They get CL football. So you're rewarding the top 4 as usual but denying the title on a technicality. Top 4 get CL without achieving it mathematically and so it should be all round.
Its weird. You look at the league table and the only thing not in doubt is that Liverpool will win the title. That should be the simplest debate. Everything else from there is highly debatable but the rationale on here is vice versa, its the title that can't be awarded while everything else should remain as it stands.
comment by Doggie Dog© - Psychic spies from China try to steal your mind's elation (U22357)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 13 hours, 14 minutes ago
If the league is void, then Liverpool don’t win the title, so in your minds, it’s basically void. Doesn’t frigging matter if your position counts and you get CL, you will lose the league as it won’t be handed out to anyone. They won’t award a title when it’s mathematically possible for another team to win it. So the only fair way would be to finish the season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mathematically possible? Assuming this is correct then we cant just bring in this rule for the title and ignore it everywhere else IMO.
By this logic, any team that can mathematically achieve CL or Europa league football cannot be denied that opportunity. Nothing in the league as it stands has been mathematically achieved yet. People saying you can't award this or that because its not mathematically achieved but then applying that selectively to suit their preferences.
If Liverpool can mathematically be caught then so can Man City, Leicester, Chelsea and every other team all the way down the football pyramid. Liverpool are 25 points clear and can be caught? That means everyone can be caught.
What do top 4 teams usually get? They get CL football. So you're rewarding the top 4 as usual but denying the title on a technicality. Top 4 get CL without achieving it mathematically and so it should be all round.
Its weird. You look at the league table and the only thing not in doubt is that Liverpool will win the title. That should be the simplest debate. Everything else from there is highly debatable but the rationale on here is vice versa, its the title that can't be awarded while everything else should remain as it stands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not saying top 4 etc should finalise as it stands. I’m all for completing the season in a fair manner. That’s the only way you can reassure fairness all round. Obviously behind closed doors is not ideal, but in these times at the moment we have no choice. I am totally against voiding the season or cancelling the season because it’s unfair. If Spurs were 20 points clear I would be livid with this outcome. So for me, we have only 1 option and that is to play the rest of the season out behind closed doors and with measures in place to test the players. We need our footy back for our own sanity if anything.
comment by Doggie Dog© - Psychic spies from China try to steal your mind's elation (U22357)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 13 hours, 14 minutes ago
If the league is void, then Liverpool don’t win the title, so in your minds, it’s basically void. Doesn’t frigging matter if your position counts and you get CL, you will lose the league as it won’t be handed out to anyone. They won’t award a title when it’s mathematically possible for another team to win it. So the only fair way would be to finish the season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mathematically possible? Assuming this is correct then we cant just bring in this rule for the title and ignore it everywhere else IMO.
By this logic, any team that can mathematically achieve CL or Europa league football cannot be denied that opportunity. Nothing in the league as it stands has been mathematically achieved yet. People saying you can't award this or that because its not mathematically achieved but then applying that selectively to suit their preferences.
If Liverpool can mathematically be caught then so can Man City, Leicester, Chelsea and every other team all the way down the football pyramid. Liverpool are 25 points clear and can be caught? That means everyone can be caught.
What do top 4 teams usually get? They get CL football. So you're rewarding the top 4 as usual but denying the title on a technicality. Top 4 get CL without achieving it mathematically and so it should be all round.
Its weird. You look at the league table and the only thing not in doubt is that Liverpool will win the title. That should be the simplest debate. Everything else from there is highly debatable but the rationale on here is vice versa, its the title that can't be awarded while everything else should remain as it stands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You have pretty much summed up my whole opinion on this but with a slight spin favouring Liverpool.
Anything not mathematically confirmed is up for debate. You say that Liverpool winning the league is in no doubt and to be fair I agree that they would easily win it, but the probability of them winning it was say 99.7%. That means there is an element of doubt and therefore, in my opinion, is not 100% confirmed. Where do you draw the line with probability in these scenarios?
I don't agree Leeds and WBA get automatic promotion based on the exact same arguement.
I certainly don't agree with teams being relegated for the same reason.
That's why the line, for me, has to be what has mathematically been confirmed.
I am against game a behind closed doors too. It's unfair in it down way.
The more I think about it the more I believe there should be 2 options. That is 1) void the season. Not sure how European places would be confirmed although I bleive Liverpool were the only team mathematically certain of CL. 2) Wait til fans can go to games and resume the season.
Just my opinion but we can't be giving anyone places based on probability as we would have to draw the line somewhere. We can't be making that line for one club, has to be 100% certain that is where they would have finished. Not 99.7%
I would even consider that if this season is voided, the following season starts wih teams on set points due to how the season ended. So Liverpool given a head start by say the points they were ahead by. But perhaps fans wouldnt be engaged in the season so much?
No idea but happy to be challenged on my points.
Bake em, waiting to play games with crowds could take until Christmas mate. What, so you wait until Xmas to start the season? Come on mate, never going to happen. The only fair way of doing this is finishing the season ASAP and that’s currently to play the rest of the season behind closed doors. It’s not ideal and I agree, it’s not fair on certain teams, but it’s a lot more fair than just voiding the season completely and stopping teams that have worked so hard get promoted or winning league titles etc. It’s not even just about that, it’s also about money. What about the smaller clubs who are on the cusp of promotion ? That money could save the club. Now people want to take that away from them ?
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 2 minutes ago
Bake em, waiting to play games with crowds could take until Christmas mate. What, so you wait until Xmas to start the season? Come on mate, never going to happen. The only fair way of doing this is finishing the season ASAP and that’s currently to play the rest of the season behind closed doors. It’s not ideal and I agree, it’s not fair on certain teams, but it’s a lot more fair than just voiding the season completely and stopping teams that have worked so hard get promoted or winning league titles etc. It’s not even just about that, it’s also about money. What about the smaller clubs who are on the cusp of promotion ? That money could save the club. Now people want to take that away from them ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate, I'm not arguing at all with your points. I know your stance in this and I respect it. I miss football loads. I coach an under 7s side and that has bene voided. The only real arguement I hear is about money, which I am not in agreement with.
My mates boy for the same club I coach but at a different age group. He reached a final but its been cancelled. He was devastated. Why are kids emotions with actually playing the game seen as less important. Why are there different rules. Money, that is all.
Football has always bene universal. But it's becoming further apart than ever and this is a perfect example.
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 2 minutes ago
Bake em, waiting to play games with crowds could take until Christmas mate. What, so you wait until Xmas to start the season? Come on mate, never going to happen. The only fair way of doing this is finishing the season ASAP and that’s currently to play the rest of the season behind closed doors. It’s not ideal and I agree, it’s not fair on certain teams, but it’s a lot more fair than just voiding the season completely and stopping teams that have worked so hard get promoted or winning league titles etc. It’s not even just about that, it’s also about money. What about the smaller clubs who are on the cusp of promotion ? That money could save the club. Now people want to take that away from them ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate, I'm not arguing at all with your points. I know your stance in this and I respect it. I miss football loads. I coach an under 7s side and that has bene voided. The only real arguement I hear is about money, which I am not in agreement with.
My mates boy for the same club I coach but at a different age group. He reached a final but its been cancelled. He was devastated. Why are kids emotions with actually playing the game seen as less important. Why are there different rules. Money, that is all.
Football has always bene universal. But it's becoming further apart than ever and this is a perfect example.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Totally agree with that to.
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by Doggie Dog© - Psychic spies from China try to steal your mind's elation (U22357)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 13 hours, 14 minutes ago
If the league is void, then Liverpool don’t win the title, so in your minds, it’s basically void. Doesn’t frigging matter if your position counts and you get CL, you will lose the league as it won’t be handed out to anyone. They won’t award a title when it’s mathematically possible for another team to win it. So the only fair way would be to finish the season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mathematically possible? Assuming this is correct then we cant just bring in this rule for the title and ignore it everywhere else IMO.
By this logic, any team that can mathematically achieve CL or Europa league football cannot be denied that opportunity. Nothing in the league as it stands has been mathematically achieved yet. People saying you can't award this or that because its not mathematically achieved but then applying that selectively to suit their preferences.
If Liverpool can mathematically be caught then so can Man City, Leicester, Chelsea and every other team all the way down the football pyramid. Liverpool are 25 points clear and can be caught? That means everyone can be caught.
What do top 4 teams usually get? They get CL football. So you're rewarding the top 4 as usual but denying the title on a technicality. Top 4 get CL without achieving it mathematically and so it should be all round.
Its weird. You look at the league table and the only thing not in doubt is that Liverpool will win the title. That should be the simplest debate. Everything else from there is highly debatable but the rationale on here is vice versa, its the title that can't be awarded while everything else should remain as it stands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not saying top 4 etc should finalise as it stands. I’m all for completing the season in a fair manner. That’s the only way you can reassure fairness all round. Obviously behind closed doors is not ideal, but in these times at the moment we have no choice. I am totally against voiding the season or cancelling the season because it’s unfair. If Spurs were 20 points clear I would be livid with this outcome. So for me, we have only 1 option and that is to play the rest of the season out behind closed doors and with measures in place to test the players. We need our footy back for our own sanity if anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nail on head Don.
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by Doggie Dog© - Psychic spies from China try to steal your mind's elation (U22357)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 13 hours, 14 minutes ago
If the league is void, then Liverpool don’t win the title, so in your minds, it’s basically void. Doesn’t frigging matter if your position counts and you get CL, you will lose the league as it won’t be handed out to anyone. They won’t award a title when it’s mathematically possible for another team to win it. So the only fair way would be to finish the season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mathematically possible? Assuming this is correct then we cant just bring in this rule for the title and ignore it everywhere else IMO.
By this logic, any team that can mathematically achieve CL or Europa league football cannot be denied that opportunity. Nothing in the league as it stands has been mathematically achieved yet. People saying you can't award this or that because its not mathematically achieved but then applying that selectively to suit their preferences.
If Liverpool can mathematically be caught then so can Man City, Leicester, Chelsea and every other team all the way down the football pyramid. Liverpool are 25 points clear and can be caught? That means everyone can be caught.
What do top 4 teams usually get? They get CL football. So you're rewarding the top 4 as usual but denying the title on a technicality. Top 4 get CL without achieving it mathematically and so it should be all round.
Its weird. You look at the league table and the only thing not in doubt is that Liverpool will win the title. That should be the simplest debate. Everything else from there is highly debatable but the rationale on here is vice versa, its the title that can't be awarded while everything else should remain as it stands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You have pretty much summed up my whole opinion on this but with a slight spin favouring Liverpool.
Anything not mathematically confirmed is up for debate. You say that Liverpool winning the league is in no doubt and to be fair I agree that they would easily win it, but the probability of them winning it was say 99.7%. That means there is an element of doubt and therefore, in my opinion, is not 100% confirmed. Where do you draw the line with probability in these scenarios?
I don't agree Leeds and WBA get automatic promotion based on the exact same arguement.
I certainly don't agree with teams being relegated for the same reason.
That's why the line, for me, has to be what has mathematically been confirmed.
I am against game a behind closed doors too. It's unfair in it down way.
The more I think about it the more I believe there should be 2 options. That is 1) void the season. Not sure how European places would be confirmed although I bleive Liverpool were the only team mathematically certain of CL. 2) Wait til fans can go to games and resume the season.
Just my opinion but we can't be giving anyone places based on probability as we would have to draw the line somewhere. We can't be making that line for one club, has to be 100% certain that is where they would have finished. Not 99.7%
I would even consider that if this season is voided, the following season starts wih teams on set points due to how the season ended. So Liverpool given a head start by say the points they were ahead by. But perhaps fans wouldnt be engaged in the season so much?
No idea but happy to be challenged on my points.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get you. My point was that IF they give give CL places on "probability" then they should do it for everyone, not selectively. I'm not saying that's the best solution.
Secondly, your premise of we can't give teams this or that based on probability is just a rule you've decided to apply without question. Why? I don't know.
Covid is a special circumstance. For me, rewarding teams for what they've achieved so far is far more fair and reasonable than saying "all that work and time is for nothing because it has to be 100%, not 99.7%".
The only way everything can be 100% is at the end of the season and if that's not achievable then it's fairer to look at "the most recent set of results" as UEFA have said.
I get you. My point was that IF they give give CL places on "probability" then they should do it for everyone, not selectively. I'm not saying that's the best solution.
Secondly, your premise of we can't give teams this or that based on probability is just a rule you've decided to apply without question. Why? I don't know.
Covid is a special circumstance. For me, rewarding teams for what they've achieved so far is far more fair and reasonable than saying "all that work and time is for nothing because it has to be 100%, not 99.7%".
The only way everything can be 100% is at the end of the season and if that's not achievable then it's fairer to look at "the most recent set of results" as UEFA have said.
-----
Yea I get what you are saying and to be fair I imagine this is what the majority of people will think is the fairest option. You can't please everyone. I can't even debate alot of what you are saying because there is not another option that stands out.
You are right, I did give the opinion that you shouldn't give anyone a result without it be mathematical I. E 100% certain. That's my opinion. I assume you don't share that opinion so I would be intersted to know where you draw the line with it. What's the percentage of probability you wouid draw the line at? Let's not do this based on individual teams otherwise. You say 90%? 80%? There will always be a loser who misses out based on where that line is drawn.
Ot would be crazy if Liverpool somehow miss out on the title. But I don't believe all this should be done just to ensure Liverpool win it. The impact of doing so is going to impact other teams in a negative way I. E relegation etc.
I stand by what my favoured 2 options are. Neither are perfect but in my opinion are the fairest options across the divisions.
OK but I wouldn't use probability to determine the result. Or perhaps not from the same angle.
If the season cannot be completed then an expanded league seems the fairest option to me, no relegation with promotion but that doesn't seem to have any support either and is fraught with difficulties like all the other options.
Ot would be crazy if Liverpool somehow miss out on the title. But I don't believe all this should be done just to ensure Liverpool win it. The impact of doing so is going to impact other teams in a negative way I. E relegation etc.
-----
The key word is fairness and that should be specific to individual teams. The only thing we can do that we know for sure is fair and won't hurt anyone at all is give Liverpool the title. After that it's about what is more fair, because its impossible to be completely fair.
I would say it would be a travesty if a team like like Leicester were to not be in the CL next season unless it's played out on the pitch and they get caught. If the season is canceled, it's more fair to give them the CL spot as they've done enough to earn it and you can't make an argument that any team below them deserves it more than them. Better to reward them than to reward a team that has failed all season and can hardly get a win at this level of football.
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Ending the season
Page 10 of 18
11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15
posted on 25/4/20
comment by Doggie Dog© (U22357)
posted 3 minutes ago
For the teams seeking promotion, the season has pretty much been voided. All for nothing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you. Exactly my point.
I’m trying to stick up for you pranks ffs I’m for the league resuming
posted on 25/4/20
comment by Prankster - I love myself better than you. (U22336)
posted 2 minutes ago
The Dutch league ain’t voided, it’s cancelled and there’s a massive difference ffs.
Standings still count for EL and CL however no title and relegation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its a bit of both.
Its completely voided for potential winners and relegation threatened teams but current positions stand for European places.
Once again I can't help but think a half decent lawyer would make mincemeat out of the Dutch top brass over this.
posted on 25/4/20
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Prankster - I love myself better than you. (U22336)
posted 2 minutes ago
The Dutch league ain’t voided, it’s cancelled and there’s a massive difference ffs.
Standings still count for EL and CL however no title and relegation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its a bit of both.
Its completely voided for potential winners and relegation threatened teams but current positions stand for European places.
Once again I can't help but think a half decent lawyer would make mincemeat out of the Dutch top brass over this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep exactly, bit of both
posted on 25/4/20
If the league is void, then Liverpool don’t win the title, so in your minds, it’s basically void. Doesn’t frigging matter if your position counts and you get CL, you will lose the league as it won’t be handed out to anyone. They won’t award a title when it’s mathematically possible for another team to win it. So the only fair way would be to finish the season.
posted on 25/4/20
If it was voided then they wouldn’t take current standings for European competitions.
You can’t have it both ways, hence cancelled not voided.
posted on 25/4/20
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by Doggie Dog© (U22357)
posted 3 minutes ago
For the teams seeking promotion, the season has pretty much been voided. All for nothing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you. Exactly my point.
I’m trying to stick up for you pranks ffsI’m for the league resuming
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’re cool, just a slight difference of opinion on this.
posted on 25/4/20
comment by Prankster - I love myself better than you. (U22336)
posted 2 minutes ago
If it was voided then they wouldn’t take current standings for European competitions.
You can’t have it both ways, hence cancelled not voided.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No its a bit of both because if it was cancelled then as well as European places, league winners and relegation spots would count.
The argument works both ways.
posted on 25/4/20
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Prankster - I love myself better than you. (U22336)
posted 2 minutes ago
If it was voided then they wouldn’t take current standings for European competitions.
You can’t have it both ways, hence cancelled not voided.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No its a bit of both because if it was cancelled then as well as European places, league winners and relegation spots would count.
The argument works both ways.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope, if it was voided it would be expunged and would mean nothing.
The fact they are using current standings means the season stands and hasn’t been voided.
posted on 25/4/20
comment by Prankster - I love myself better than you. (U22336)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Prankster - I love myself better than you. (U22336)
posted 2 minutes ago
If it was voided then they wouldn’t take current standings for European competitions.
You can’t have it both ways, hence cancelled not voided.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No its a bit of both because if it was cancelled then as well as European places, league winners and relegation spots would count.
The argument works both ways.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope, if it was voided it would be expunged and would mean nothing.
The fact they are using current standings means the season stands and hasn’t been voided.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Haha, and so it goes on.
If Liverpool aren't proclaimed winners then thats a big bad void.
posted on 25/4/20
posted on 26/4/20
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8257189/OLIVER-HOLT-Voiding-season-just-victory-greed-fear.html
Take note Billy and Co. Exactly how I feel a lot of people want the season voided for, to spite certain teams.
posted on 26/4/20
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 9 minutes ago
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8257189/OLIVER-HOLT-Voiding-season-just-victory-greed-fear.html
Take note Billy and Co. Exactly how I feel a lot of people want the season voided for, to spite certain teams.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don can you just agree with Billy now please, this is getting ridiculous, you're not allowed to agree with fans outside your own club on a forum ffs
This will end in tears 😅
posted on 26/4/20
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 9 minutes ago
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8257189/OLIVER-HOLT-Voiding-season-just-victory-greed-fear.html
Take note Billy and Co. Exactly how I feel a lot of people want the season voided for, to spite certain teams.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don can you just agree with Billy now please, this is getting ridiculous, you're not allowed to agree with fans outside your own club on a forum ffs
This will end in tears 😅
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 26/4/20
On a serious note, if delaying the season and then completing it means less teams fold, that's the right call.
In holland it made sense to cancel. It will save many clubs. In the PL I feel completing the games will have the same effect.
It'll be good prep for next season when I think at least half of the season will be behind closed doors.
If we need to be patient to save lifes and the game as we know it, so be it.
posted on 26/4/20
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 13 hours, 14 minutes ago
If the league is void, then Liverpool don’t win the title, so in your minds, it’s basically void. Doesn’t frigging matter if your position counts and you get CL, you will lose the league as it won’t be handed out to anyone. They won’t award a title when it’s mathematically possible for another team to win it. So the only fair way would be to finish the season.
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Mathematically possible? Assuming this is correct then we cant just bring in this rule for the title and ignore it everywhere else IMO.
By this logic, any team that can mathematically achieve CL or Europa league football cannot be denied that opportunity. Nothing in the league as it stands has been mathematically achieved yet. People saying you can't award this or that because its not mathematically achieved but then applying that selectively to suit their preferences.
If Liverpool can mathematically be caught then so can Man City, Leicester, Chelsea and every other team all the way down the football pyramid. Liverpool are 25 points clear and can be caught? That means everyone can be caught.
What do top 4 teams usually get? They get CL football. So you're rewarding the top 4 as usual but denying the title on a technicality. Top 4 get CL without achieving it mathematically and so it should be all round.
Its weird. You look at the league table and the only thing not in doubt is that Liverpool will win the title. That should be the simplest debate. Everything else from there is highly debatable but the rationale on here is vice versa, its the title that can't be awarded while everything else should remain as it stands.
posted on 26/4/20
comment by Doggie Dog© - Psychic spies from China try to steal your mind's elation (U22357)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 13 hours, 14 minutes ago
If the league is void, then Liverpool don’t win the title, so in your minds, it’s basically void. Doesn’t frigging matter if your position counts and you get CL, you will lose the league as it won’t be handed out to anyone. They won’t award a title when it’s mathematically possible for another team to win it. So the only fair way would be to finish the season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mathematically possible? Assuming this is correct then we cant just bring in this rule for the title and ignore it everywhere else IMO.
By this logic, any team that can mathematically achieve CL or Europa league football cannot be denied that opportunity. Nothing in the league as it stands has been mathematically achieved yet. People saying you can't award this or that because its not mathematically achieved but then applying that selectively to suit their preferences.
If Liverpool can mathematically be caught then so can Man City, Leicester, Chelsea and every other team all the way down the football pyramid. Liverpool are 25 points clear and can be caught? That means everyone can be caught.
What do top 4 teams usually get? They get CL football. So you're rewarding the top 4 as usual but denying the title on a technicality. Top 4 get CL without achieving it mathematically and so it should be all round.
Its weird. You look at the league table and the only thing not in doubt is that Liverpool will win the title. That should be the simplest debate. Everything else from there is highly debatable but the rationale on here is vice versa, its the title that can't be awarded while everything else should remain as it stands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not saying top 4 etc should finalise as it stands. I’m all for completing the season in a fair manner. That’s the only way you can reassure fairness all round. Obviously behind closed doors is not ideal, but in these times at the moment we have no choice. I am totally against voiding the season or cancelling the season because it’s unfair. If Spurs were 20 points clear I would be livid with this outcome. So for me, we have only 1 option and that is to play the rest of the season out behind closed doors and with measures in place to test the players. We need our footy back for our own sanity if anything.
posted on 26/4/20
comment by Doggie Dog© - Psychic spies from China try to steal your mind's elation (U22357)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 13 hours, 14 minutes ago
If the league is void, then Liverpool don’t win the title, so in your minds, it’s basically void. Doesn’t frigging matter if your position counts and you get CL, you will lose the league as it won’t be handed out to anyone. They won’t award a title when it’s mathematically possible for another team to win it. So the only fair way would be to finish the season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mathematically possible? Assuming this is correct then we cant just bring in this rule for the title and ignore it everywhere else IMO.
By this logic, any team that can mathematically achieve CL or Europa league football cannot be denied that opportunity. Nothing in the league as it stands has been mathematically achieved yet. People saying you can't award this or that because its not mathematically achieved but then applying that selectively to suit their preferences.
If Liverpool can mathematically be caught then so can Man City, Leicester, Chelsea and every other team all the way down the football pyramid. Liverpool are 25 points clear and can be caught? That means everyone can be caught.
What do top 4 teams usually get? They get CL football. So you're rewarding the top 4 as usual but denying the title on a technicality. Top 4 get CL without achieving it mathematically and so it should be all round.
Its weird. You look at the league table and the only thing not in doubt is that Liverpool will win the title. That should be the simplest debate. Everything else from there is highly debatable but the rationale on here is vice versa, its the title that can't be awarded while everything else should remain as it stands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You have pretty much summed up my whole opinion on this but with a slight spin favouring Liverpool.
Anything not mathematically confirmed is up for debate. You say that Liverpool winning the league is in no doubt and to be fair I agree that they would easily win it, but the probability of them winning it was say 99.7%. That means there is an element of doubt and therefore, in my opinion, is not 100% confirmed. Where do you draw the line with probability in these scenarios?
I don't agree Leeds and WBA get automatic promotion based on the exact same arguement.
I certainly don't agree with teams being relegated for the same reason.
That's why the line, for me, has to be what has mathematically been confirmed.
I am against game a behind closed doors too. It's unfair in it down way.
The more I think about it the more I believe there should be 2 options. That is 1) void the season. Not sure how European places would be confirmed although I bleive Liverpool were the only team mathematically certain of CL. 2) Wait til fans can go to games and resume the season.
Just my opinion but we can't be giving anyone places based on probability as we would have to draw the line somewhere. We can't be making that line for one club, has to be 100% certain that is where they would have finished. Not 99.7%
I would even consider that if this season is voided, the following season starts wih teams on set points due to how the season ended. So Liverpool given a head start by say the points they were ahead by. But perhaps fans wouldnt be engaged in the season so much?
No idea but happy to be challenged on my points.
posted on 26/4/20
Bake em, waiting to play games with crowds could take until Christmas mate. What, so you wait until Xmas to start the season? Come on mate, never going to happen. The only fair way of doing this is finishing the season ASAP and that’s currently to play the rest of the season behind closed doors. It’s not ideal and I agree, it’s not fair on certain teams, but it’s a lot more fair than just voiding the season completely and stopping teams that have worked so hard get promoted or winning league titles etc. It’s not even just about that, it’s also about money. What about the smaller clubs who are on the cusp of promotion ? That money could save the club. Now people want to take that away from them ?
posted on 26/4/20
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 2 minutes ago
Bake em, waiting to play games with crowds could take until Christmas mate. What, so you wait until Xmas to start the season? Come on mate, never going to happen. The only fair way of doing this is finishing the season ASAP and that’s currently to play the rest of the season behind closed doors. It’s not ideal and I agree, it’s not fair on certain teams, but it’s a lot more fair than just voiding the season completely and stopping teams that have worked so hard get promoted or winning league titles etc. It’s not even just about that, it’s also about money. What about the smaller clubs who are on the cusp of promotion ? That money could save the club. Now people want to take that away from them ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate, I'm not arguing at all with your points. I know your stance in this and I respect it. I miss football loads. I coach an under 7s side and that has bene voided. The only real arguement I hear is about money, which I am not in agreement with.
My mates boy for the same club I coach but at a different age group. He reached a final but its been cancelled. He was devastated. Why are kids emotions with actually playing the game seen as less important. Why are there different rules. Money, that is all.
Football has always bene universal. But it's becoming further apart than ever and this is a perfect example.
posted on 26/4/20
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 2 minutes ago
Bake em, waiting to play games with crowds could take until Christmas mate. What, so you wait until Xmas to start the season? Come on mate, never going to happen. The only fair way of doing this is finishing the season ASAP and that’s currently to play the rest of the season behind closed doors. It’s not ideal and I agree, it’s not fair on certain teams, but it’s a lot more fair than just voiding the season completely and stopping teams that have worked so hard get promoted or winning league titles etc. It’s not even just about that, it’s also about money. What about the smaller clubs who are on the cusp of promotion ? That money could save the club. Now people want to take that away from them ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate, I'm not arguing at all with your points. I know your stance in this and I respect it. I miss football loads. I coach an under 7s side and that has bene voided. The only real arguement I hear is about money, which I am not in agreement with.
My mates boy for the same club I coach but at a different age group. He reached a final but its been cancelled. He was devastated. Why are kids emotions with actually playing the game seen as less important. Why are there different rules. Money, that is all.
Football has always bene universal. But it's becoming further apart than ever and this is a perfect example.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Totally agree with that to.
posted on 26/4/20
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by Doggie Dog© - Psychic spies from China try to steal your mind's elation (U22357)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 13 hours, 14 minutes ago
If the league is void, then Liverpool don’t win the title, so in your minds, it’s basically void. Doesn’t frigging matter if your position counts and you get CL, you will lose the league as it won’t be handed out to anyone. They won’t award a title when it’s mathematically possible for another team to win it. So the only fair way would be to finish the season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mathematically possible? Assuming this is correct then we cant just bring in this rule for the title and ignore it everywhere else IMO.
By this logic, any team that can mathematically achieve CL or Europa league football cannot be denied that opportunity. Nothing in the league as it stands has been mathematically achieved yet. People saying you can't award this or that because its not mathematically achieved but then applying that selectively to suit their preferences.
If Liverpool can mathematically be caught then so can Man City, Leicester, Chelsea and every other team all the way down the football pyramid. Liverpool are 25 points clear and can be caught? That means everyone can be caught.
What do top 4 teams usually get? They get CL football. So you're rewarding the top 4 as usual but denying the title on a technicality. Top 4 get CL without achieving it mathematically and so it should be all round.
Its weird. You look at the league table and the only thing not in doubt is that Liverpool will win the title. That should be the simplest debate. Everything else from there is highly debatable but the rationale on here is vice versa, its the title that can't be awarded while everything else should remain as it stands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not saying top 4 etc should finalise as it stands. I’m all for completing the season in a fair manner. That’s the only way you can reassure fairness all round. Obviously behind closed doors is not ideal, but in these times at the moment we have no choice. I am totally against voiding the season or cancelling the season because it’s unfair. If Spurs were 20 points clear I would be livid with this outcome. So for me, we have only 1 option and that is to play the rest of the season out behind closed doors and with measures in place to test the players. We need our footy back for our own sanity if anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nail on head Don.
posted on 26/4/20
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by Doggie Dog© - Psychic spies from China try to steal your mind's elation (U22357)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 13 hours, 14 minutes ago
If the league is void, then Liverpool don’t win the title, so in your minds, it’s basically void. Doesn’t frigging matter if your position counts and you get CL, you will lose the league as it won’t be handed out to anyone. They won’t award a title when it’s mathematically possible for another team to win it. So the only fair way would be to finish the season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mathematically possible? Assuming this is correct then we cant just bring in this rule for the title and ignore it everywhere else IMO.
By this logic, any team that can mathematically achieve CL or Europa league football cannot be denied that opportunity. Nothing in the league as it stands has been mathematically achieved yet. People saying you can't award this or that because its not mathematically achieved but then applying that selectively to suit their preferences.
If Liverpool can mathematically be caught then so can Man City, Leicester, Chelsea and every other team all the way down the football pyramid. Liverpool are 25 points clear and can be caught? That means everyone can be caught.
What do top 4 teams usually get? They get CL football. So you're rewarding the top 4 as usual but denying the title on a technicality. Top 4 get CL without achieving it mathematically and so it should be all round.
Its weird. You look at the league table and the only thing not in doubt is that Liverpool will win the title. That should be the simplest debate. Everything else from there is highly debatable but the rationale on here is vice versa, its the title that can't be awarded while everything else should remain as it stands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You have pretty much summed up my whole opinion on this but with a slight spin favouring Liverpool.
Anything not mathematically confirmed is up for debate. You say that Liverpool winning the league is in no doubt and to be fair I agree that they would easily win it, but the probability of them winning it was say 99.7%. That means there is an element of doubt and therefore, in my opinion, is not 100% confirmed. Where do you draw the line with probability in these scenarios?
I don't agree Leeds and WBA get automatic promotion based on the exact same arguement.
I certainly don't agree with teams being relegated for the same reason.
That's why the line, for me, has to be what has mathematically been confirmed.
I am against game a behind closed doors too. It's unfair in it down way.
The more I think about it the more I believe there should be 2 options. That is 1) void the season. Not sure how European places would be confirmed although I bleive Liverpool were the only team mathematically certain of CL. 2) Wait til fans can go to games and resume the season.
Just my opinion but we can't be giving anyone places based on probability as we would have to draw the line somewhere. We can't be making that line for one club, has to be 100% certain that is where they would have finished. Not 99.7%
I would even consider that if this season is voided, the following season starts wih teams on set points due to how the season ended. So Liverpool given a head start by say the points they were ahead by. But perhaps fans wouldnt be engaged in the season so much?
No idea but happy to be challenged on my points.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get you. My point was that IF they give give CL places on "probability" then they should do it for everyone, not selectively. I'm not saying that's the best solution.
Secondly, your premise of we can't give teams this or that based on probability is just a rule you've decided to apply without question. Why? I don't know.
Covid is a special circumstance. For me, rewarding teams for what they've achieved so far is far more fair and reasonable than saying "all that work and time is for nothing because it has to be 100%, not 99.7%".
The only way everything can be 100% is at the end of the season and if that's not achievable then it's fairer to look at "the most recent set of results" as UEFA have said.
posted on 26/4/20
I get you. My point was that IF they give give CL places on "probability" then they should do it for everyone, not selectively. I'm not saying that's the best solution.
Secondly, your premise of we can't give teams this or that based on probability is just a rule you've decided to apply without question. Why? I don't know.
Covid is a special circumstance. For me, rewarding teams for what they've achieved so far is far more fair and reasonable than saying "all that work and time is for nothing because it has to be 100%, not 99.7%".
The only way everything can be 100% is at the end of the season and if that's not achievable then it's fairer to look at "the most recent set of results" as UEFA have said.
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Yea I get what you are saying and to be fair I imagine this is what the majority of people will think is the fairest option. You can't please everyone. I can't even debate alot of what you are saying because there is not another option that stands out.
You are right, I did give the opinion that you shouldn't give anyone a result without it be mathematical I. E 100% certain. That's my opinion. I assume you don't share that opinion so I would be intersted to know where you draw the line with it. What's the percentage of probability you wouid draw the line at? Let's not do this based on individual teams otherwise. You say 90%? 80%? There will always be a loser who misses out based on where that line is drawn.
Ot would be crazy if Liverpool somehow miss out on the title. But I don't believe all this should be done just to ensure Liverpool win it. The impact of doing so is going to impact other teams in a negative way I. E relegation etc.
I stand by what my favoured 2 options are. Neither are perfect but in my opinion are the fairest options across the divisions.
posted on 26/4/20
OK but I wouldn't use probability to determine the result. Or perhaps not from the same angle.
If the season cannot be completed then an expanded league seems the fairest option to me, no relegation with promotion but that doesn't seem to have any support either and is fraught with difficulties like all the other options.
posted on 26/4/20
Ot would be crazy if Liverpool somehow miss out on the title. But I don't believe all this should be done just to ensure Liverpool win it. The impact of doing so is going to impact other teams in a negative way I. E relegation etc.
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The key word is fairness and that should be specific to individual teams. The only thing we can do that we know for sure is fair and won't hurt anyone at all is give Liverpool the title. After that it's about what is more fair, because its impossible to be completely fair.
I would say it would be a travesty if a team like like Leicester were to not be in the CL next season unless it's played out on the pitch and they get caught. If the season is canceled, it's more fair to give them the CL spot as they've done enough to earn it and you can't make an argument that any team below them deserves it more than them. Better to reward them than to reward a team that has failed all season and can hardly get a win at this level of football.
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