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These 259 comments are related to an article called:

The UK : The highest death toll in Europe.

Page 8 of 11

posted on 5/5/20

The gov still dithering on putting people coming into UK in quarantine.

They are clueless and incompetent, but hey, Bojo the clown is PM, so everyone applaud.

posted on 5/5/20

comment by DoireDevilBhoy (U10745)
posted 3 minutes ago
I really don't understand the people on here who are trying to use population density and demographics to excuse the UK governments response. The government (and everyone) were well aware of the density, particularly in London, and the demographics. They were also pretty well informed from China, Italy, and Spain at how this virus works and spreads etc....and yet they still didn't lockdown early enough and still made all the mistakes that have been listed in this thread.....surely this is an even bigger reason for highlighting their incompetence. Or has the fact that London is a densely populated city and the UK have a older demographic just become known in the last 2 months????
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posted on 5/5/20

comment by Sergio Marquina (U11781)
posted 2 hours, 52 minutes ago
For anyone thinking of downloading the COVID app the government is close to releasing, I’d advise you guys to read the article below. If you want to protect your privacy and your movements, don’t download it. The government will have eyes on you.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/04/vote-leave-ai-firm-wins-seven-government-contracts-in-18-months
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I posted this on another thread, but for all those who are so concerned about the authorities hoovering up their personal data, they need to be reminded that in the UK, the police have technology they can use - and are currently using - *without a warrant* that can extract:

- location data
- conversations on encrypted apps
- call logs
- emails
- text messages
- passwords
- internet searches

from the devices of suspects, victims and witnesses.

It also downloads deleted data, including messages sent to the phone by other people.

Again, once the police have your device, they *do not need a warrant* to unlock it and use this technology to extract your data.

That’s before you look at the UK Investigatory Powers Bill 2016, which is scary as fack, frankly.

posted on 5/5/20

comment by Smeg and the club levy destroyed (U6574)
posted 15 minutes ago
I’ve totally given up on the uk and politics. It doesn’t matter how bad they are, how many people they hurt, how much public services they cut or how much they lie to us, the tories always win elections. Even with a proven liar and coward as their leader.

The last election finished me off. I’ll never bother voting again. Zero point when murdoch can control millions thoughts.
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Can'y blame just the papers/media on that as it's the get out of jail card for all Labour supporters.

If Labour had an electable leader in the last 3 elections then they'd be in power.

May and Boris are the worse Tory leaders ever,but they still wiped the floor 3 times against Corbyn.That says more about the Labour party and it's activists than anything else in my books.

posted on 5/5/20

comment by Hod idol - Jose's real tin set! (U5117)
posted 32 minutes ago
The Government handling of this has certainly been poor but to compare with other countries is difficult.

If you take into account population, land mass, density of population, and global connectivity, there is an argument that Italy, Spain and France are still coming out worse (only as of now that is).

If those countries are going to take the stance of 'well look at the UK' and their populations fall for it then they are very naive.
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Yeah agree with this,

posted on 5/5/20

Apparently the vast majority of those flouting self distancing rules are labour supporters - there’s only so much a strong and capable Tory government can do.

posted on 5/5/20

comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Smeg and the club levy destroyed (U6574)
posted 15 minutes ago
I’ve totally given up on the uk and politics. It doesn’t matter how bad they are, how many people they hurt, how much public services they cut or how much they lie to us, the tories always win elections. Even with a proven liar and coward as their leader.

The last election finished me off. I’ll never bother voting again. Zero point when murdoch can control millions thoughts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can'y blame just the papers/media on that as it's the get out of jail card for all Labour supporters.

If Labour had an electable leader in the last 3 elections then they'd be in power.

May and Boris are the worse Tory leaders ever,but they still wiped the floor 3 times against Corbyn.That says more about the Labour party and it's activists than anything else in my books.
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Nah mate, it just says the country is full of dumb gullible sheep, and racists (which it is)

Get Brexit done
Get Covid done.

Simple messages for simple minds. Just no substance to back them up.

posted on 5/5/20

comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 second ago
comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bennyville (U8058)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bennyville (U8058)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bennyville (U8058)
posted 6 minutes ago
London is the perfect hotbed for the virus is well. So many different communities with their own set of rules and laws. I don’t live too far away from green lanes in north London, and it’s honestly like nothing has happened. People think as long as their safe within their own people or communities then nothing else matters. Also almost impossible to observe any social distancing, even for those who actually care to attempt it.
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There are no different sets of rules and laws.

I know what you’re implying, so just spit it out.
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What do you think I’m implying? What I said it completely true and I’ve seen it for myself. It’s the alright Jacks who are making this worse for everyone. Please tell me what I meant.
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Worst offenders round my way are the yummy mummies and their spawn.
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Don’t avoid my question, what was I implying? Go on, tell me.
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You were implying that ethnic communities are generally worse affected proportionally than the white population, which statistically worldwide is absolutely correct, from Norway, to the U.K. to the USA.

It’s either a socio-economic issue, or a cultural one. Either way, it’s important to understand which and what we do to protect and support these communities in the future.
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The government is paying lip service to this.
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True. However, if it’s a cultural issue then it’s an understandably sensitive topic. We pride ourselves on being multicultural, so to then try to suggest that a culture is a contributing factor to the spread of disease within a community its risqué to say the least for any MP.

On the other hand, if it could be solved through enrichment then we need to understand how that can be achieved sensibly.

Regardless, the government is in a precarious position outside of the side issue of the impact on BAME communities, because their response hasn’t been perfect in my opinion, and people expect perfection from those chosen to govern us.
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Contributing to it?

Oh you mean by driving tubes and buses and being on the NHS frontline?
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No, that’s not what I meant.

posted on 5/5/20

comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 15 minutes ago
Murdoch and his ilk have far less influence these days . A lot less people read the papers now.
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Yet their headlines are still quoted on TV and set the tone of the election campaign. Add to that their websites which people have migrated to from newspapers.

They're still able to create hype and hysteria, and non-mainstream media just follow their lead.

comment by 0 (U7899)

posted on 5/5/20

comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
comment by ● Billy The Yidd ● (U3924)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
This country is massively over populated, there are way too many people per square metre living here, we were always going to be hard hit. That is the fault of previous governments, not the current one.
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I do love how the Tories have been in charge for 10 years now, and you still have people blaming the previous governments.

If they can't fix what you perceive to be a problem in 10 years, then maybe, just maybe, they aren't very competent at what they do.
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That's right the Labour part fixed all of the countries ills when they were in power in the prior 13 years.

They're all useless I'm afraid.

posted on 5/5/20

When are these bloody journalists (and Keir Starmer) going to go for the jugular?

Sick of all this pu$$yfooting around these incompetent clowns.

posted on 5/5/20

Starmer has probably take note that being a frothing protester won’t get him elected.

I think he’s conducting himself well, raising the correct points around the issues that matter. Rather than getting into a slanging match with the government, which could/would easily be spun against him, he’s asking pertinent questions about easing the lockdown, furlough scheme and workplace safety. Stuff that matters more than criticising the government just because the opportunity presents itself.

posted on 5/5/20

What do you want the government to actually do? When you get idiots having house party’s going to b&q and Costa coffee that’s down to the individuals. If the government. Let say force a really strict lock down. Army on the streets. No walking your dog, No outdoor exercise. Can only shop at the grocery store closes to your house once a week. The same people would still be moaning. What do you actually want the government to do right now?

posted on 5/5/20

comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 1 minute ago
Starmer has probably take note that being a frothing protester won’t get him elected.

I think he’s conducting himself well, raising the correct points around the issues that matter. Rather than getting into a slanging match with the government, which could/would easily be spun against him, he’s asking pertinent questions about easing the lockdown, furlough scheme and workplace safety. Stuff that matters more than criticising the government just because the opportunity presents itself.
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Yes he is, but I need him to be a bit more ruthless.

posted on 5/5/20

comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 1 minute ago
Starmer has probably take note that being a frothing protester won’t get him elected.

I think he’s conducting himself well, raising the correct points around the issues that matter. Rather than getting into a slanging match with the government, which could/would easily be spun against him, he’s asking pertinent questions about easing the lockdown, furlough scheme and workplace safety. Stuff that matters more than criticising the government just because the opportunity presents itself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes he is, but I need him to be a bit more ruthless.
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That wouldn’t be wise. You often say yourself that the Tories own the media. Cheap point scoring is a sign of weakness. Starmer looks stronger and more electable doing what he is doing.

I said throughout the last two years that he was the only man on the Labour front bench capable of winning an election. He’s someone I could vote for.

posted on 5/5/20

comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 1 minute ago
Starmer has probably take note that being a frothing protester won’t get him elected.

I think he’s conducting himself well, raising the correct points around the issues that matter. Rather than getting into a slanging match with the government, which could/would easily be spun against him, he’s asking pertinent questions about easing the lockdown, furlough scheme and workplace safety. Stuff that matters more than criticising the government just because the opportunity presents itself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes he is, but I need him to be a bit more ruthless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That wouldn’t be wise. You often say yourself that the Tories own the media. Cheap point scoring is a sign of weakness. Starmer looks stronger and more electable doing what he is doing.

I said throughout the last two years that he was the only man on the Labour front bench capable of winning an election. He’s someone I could vote for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

posted on 5/5/20

"It's all about population density" has become a key trope for those who want to absolve UK government diversion from international recommendations while implying that having too many immigrants is the route of the UK's exceptionally high death rate.

It's well known that nationalist populism seeks simplistic answers to complex problems - e.g. when the only policy Farage would offer around the NHS was stopping foreigners coming to the UK to get AIDS treatment, when every policy expert acknowledged that health tourism was the tiniest of scratches on resources compared to systemic underfunding of our system.

The answer here is also to look at facts. If population density alone simply explains our place among the worst hit countries in the world, why:

...has Germany, a country with only slightly lower population density, and much of the population living in dense cities, escaped severe impacts?

...has the Netherlands, with around double the population density of the UK and a similarly ethnically diverse and mobile urban population, got something like half the deaths per capita that we have?

...why indeed was Spain so severely hit when it has a population density three times lower than the UK? And why has Portugal, with a higher density than Spain, a similar level of ethnic diversity and a lot of people crossing the border in either direction, avoided exposure to anywhere near the same degree?

It's almost as if there's a complex web of factors informing these outcomes, and as if the decisions made by the authorities, the timing of those decisions, and the effectiveness of communications may have had quite a big role to play.

posted on 5/5/20

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/reaction-uk-worst-coronavirus-death-toll-europe/

Preach.

Now IS the time.

posted on 5/5/20

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 5/5/20

comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/reaction-uk-worst-coronavirus-death-toll-europe/

Preach.

Now IS the time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I love JOB. He is probably the most hated presenter on LBC but then again, alot of brexiteers hate him.

posted on 5/5/20

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 hours, 30 minutes ago
"It's all about population density" has become a key trope for those who want to absolve UK government diversion from international recommendations while implying that having too many immigrants is the route of the UK's exceptionally high death rate.

It's well known that nationalist populism seeks simplistic answers to complex problems - e.g. when the only policy Farage would offer around the NHS was stopping foreigners coming to the UK to get AIDS treatment, when every policy expert acknowledged that health tourism was the tiniest of scratches on resources compared to systemic underfunding of our system.

The answer here is also to look at facts. If population density alone simply explains our place among the worst hit countries in the world, why:

...has Germany, a country with only slightly lower population density, and much of the population living in dense cities, escaped severe impacts?

...has the Netherlands, with around double the population density of the UK and a similarly ethnically diverse and mobile urban population, got something like half the deaths per capita that we have?

...why indeed was Spain so severely hit when it has a population density three times lower than the UK? And why has Portugal, with a higher density than Spain, a similar level of ethnic diversity and a lot of people crossing the border in either direction, avoided exposure to anywhere near the same degree?

It's almost as if there's a complex web of factors informing these outcomes, and as if the decisions made by the authorities, the timing of those decisions, and the effectiveness of communications may have had quite a big role to play.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can help with the Portuguese answer.

The government locked down here, early and hard, closing the border and the airports. The president declared a state of emergency and said to the public on live TV (slight - but only slight - paraphrase), “We are all going to come out of this poorer, but we’re going to save every life that we can.”

The govt tested to hell as soon as the WHO started shouting, “Test, Test, Test!” Before the UK was doing any amount of testing we had drive thru test centres set up here.

And whilst discussions about ‘herd immunity’ were going on in the UK, supermarket workers were already wearing visors and gloves here, never mind healthcare professionals.

Completely different mentality, completely different approach.

posted on 5/5/20

comment by rosso is done with this (U17054)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 hours, 30 minutes ago
"It's all about population density" has become a key trope for those who want to absolve UK government diversion from international recommendations while implying that having too many immigrants is the route of the UK's exceptionally high death rate.

It's well known that nationalist populism seeks simplistic answers to complex problems - e.g. when the only policy Farage would offer around the NHS was stopping foreigners coming to the UK to get AIDS treatment, when every policy expert acknowledged that health tourism was the tiniest of scratches on resources compared to systemic underfunding of our system.

The answer here is also to look at facts. If population density alone simply explains our place among the worst hit countries in the world, why:

...has Germany, a country with only slightly lower population density, and much of the population living in dense cities, escaped severe impacts?

...has the Netherlands, with around double the population density of the UK and a similarly ethnically diverse and mobile urban population, got something like half the deaths per capita that we have?

...why indeed was Spain so severely hit when it has a population density three times lower than the UK? And why has Portugal, with a higher density than Spain, a similar level of ethnic diversity and a lot of people crossing the border in either direction, avoided exposure to anywhere near the same degree?

It's almost as if there's a complex web of factors informing these outcomes, and as if the decisions made by the authorities, the timing of those decisions, and the effectiveness of communications may have had quite a big role to play.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can help with the Portuguese answer.

The government locked down here, early and hard, closing the border and the airports. The president declared a state of emergency and said to the public on live TV (slight - but only slight - paraphrase), “We are all going to come out of this poorer, but we’re going to save every life that we can.”

The govt tested to hell as soon as the WHO started shouting, “Test, Test, Test!” Before the UK was doing any amount of testing we had drive thru test centres set up here.

And whilst discussions about ‘herd immunity’ were going on in the UK, supermarket workers were already wearing visors and gloves here, never mind healthcare professionals.

Completely different mentality, completely different approach.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Lisbon airport is still open.

posted on 5/5/20

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
"It's all about population density" has become a key trope for those who want to absolve UK government diversion from international recommendations while implying that having too many immigrants is the route of the UK's exceptionally high death rate.

It's well known that nationalist populism seeks simplistic answers to complex problems - e.g. when the only policy Farage would offer around the NHS was stopping foreigners coming to the UK to get AIDS treatment, when every policy expert acknowledged that health tourism was the tiniest of scratches on resources compared to systemic underfunding of our system.

The answer here is also to look at facts. If population density alone simply explains our place among the worst hit countries in the world, why:

...has Germany, a country with only slightly lower population density, and much of the population living in dense cities, escaped severe impacts?

...has the Netherlands, with around double the population density of the UK and a similarly ethnically diverse and mobile urban population, got something like half the deaths per capita that we have?

...why indeed was Spain so severely hit when it has a population density three times lower than the UK? And why has Portugal, with a higher density than Spain, a similar level of ethnic diversity and a lot of people crossing the border in either direction, avoided exposure to anywhere near the same degree?

It's almost as if there's a complex web of factors informing these outcomes, and as if the decisions made by the authorities, the timing of those decisions, and the effectiveness of communications may have had quite a big role to play.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Population density is of course not the only factor but it is important to take into account when measuring our government’s decisions and performance of those decisions.

There is also, I think, an importance on the total number of the population. Portugal is around 10m, The Netherlands is around 17m. Spain is around 47m, France around 67m as is the UK. It is a lot harder to manage when the numbers get to this level with or without density consideration.

Personally, the only reason I raise these points is that I think it is in very poor taste and all too easy to point the finger at this stage and I find it so archaic that people link this to particular party politics when the reality is that both Labour & the Conservatives have been so similar in the last 20 years. Can you imagine what many of the strongest of Labour supporters on here would have said if the Tories were in charge during the Iraq War travesty or the 2008 financial crash? Good lord that would be some storm eh?

posted on 5/5/20

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 5/5/20

I just think it’s important to have balance. Understand both points of view and realise that perhaps, just perhaps, the reality is somewhere in the middle. It’s a common trend in modern society to be so single-minded and biased it’s untrue. The amount of information available to us all is unprecedented but people tend to just stick with reading the same opinions that they already had and reinforcing them.

I find it silly, are we better than that yet???

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