*are we not better than that yet
comment by (U22224)
posted 3 hours, 43 minutes ago
What do you want the government to actually do? When you get idiots having house party’s going to b&q and Costa coffee that’s down to the individuals. If the government. Let say force a really strict lock down. Army on the streets. No walking your dog, No outdoor exercise. Can only shop at the grocery store closes to your house once a week. The same people would still be moaning. What do you actually want the government to do right now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How about, adopt a social philosophy that promotes and protects
* the rights of all
* wellbeing above profiteering
* cooperation above gangsterism
* fairness above conflict
* hard work, creativity, intelligences and professionalism over lazy thinking
* social & personal responsibility above exploitation
* science over myth perpetuation
* rationality over xenophobia
Decades of deceitful intentions from political representatives - mediated by their mouthpieces in the privately owned/corporate financed MSM - have created our dysfunctional, borderline sociopathic, society.
Pretending (any and all) parliaments haven't made our biological position weaker, is the ultimate in complicit slavery
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
"It's all about population density" has become a key trope for those who want to absolve UK government diversion from international recommendations while implying that having too many immigrants is the route of the UK's exceptionally high death rate.
It's well known that nationalist populism seeks simplistic answers to complex problems - e.g. when the only policy Farage would offer around the NHS was stopping foreigners coming to the UK to get AIDS treatment, when every policy expert acknowledged that health tourism was the tiniest of scratches on resources compared to systemic underfunding of our system.
The answer here is also to look at facts. If population density alone simply explains our place among the worst hit countries in the world, why:
...has Germany, a country with only slightly lower population density, and much of the population living in dense cities, escaped severe impacts?
...has the Netherlands, with around double the population density of the UK and a similarly ethnically diverse and mobile urban population, got something like half the deaths per capita that we have?
...why indeed was Spain so severely hit when it has a population density three times lower than the UK? And why has Portugal, with a higher density than Spain, a similar level of ethnic diversity and a lot of people crossing the border in either direction, avoided exposure to anywhere near the same degree?
It's almost as if there's a complex web of factors informing these outcomes, and as if the decisions made by the authorities, the timing of those decisions, and the effectiveness of communications may have had quite a big role to play.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Population density is of course not the only factor but it is important to take into account when measuring our government’s decisions and performance of those decisions.
There is also, I think, an importance on the total number of the population. Portugal is around 10m, The Netherlands is around 17m. Spain is around 47m, France around 67m as is the UK. It is a lot harder to manage when the numbers get to this level with or without density consideration.
Personally, the only reason I raise these points is that I think it is in very poor taste and all too easy to point the finger at this stage and I find it so archaic that people link this to particular party politics when the reality is that both Labour & the Conservatives have been so similar in the last 20 years. Can you imagine what many of the strongest of Labour supporters on here would have said if the Tories were in charge during the Iraq War travesty or the 2008 financial crash? Good lord that would be some storm eh?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, there are people who are purely tribal in their instincts. There are also people who left the Conservative party when it adopted UKIP's populism, and millions who deserted Labour after the Iraq war. Just because there are tribally minded people doesn't mean that any criticism of the government at the moment is in bad faith. At the beginning of this crisis much of the scientific community was saying 'hang on, this strategy looks risky, can you show us the basis on which you've decided to break from international recommendations?' The government hasn't been transparent about its decision making and the more severe consequences predicted publicly by many scientists have come to pass.
Speaking personally, I'd really like to be able able to say that my government handling this crisis as well as possible. My father passed away last month from Covid-19 and my elderly mother is alone and vulnerable. I believe its to her benefit and for all my fellow citizens to question the government, hold it to account, speak up when we're concerned that they may be making errors.
As for population density, the point I was making was in response to some who are in a not very coded way saying having too many immigrants is the main reason we have been hard hit. That's objectively wrong, and despicable, and it's dangerous to spread false ideas at times like this.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
RR - totally agree on the point re: immigration; that is simply wrong as you say.
I echo the above posts regarding your & your mother’s loss.
I always enjoy reading your posts as you are one of a few who post regularly but in a very reasoned and adult manner. Questioning the government and hold it to account in this manner is indeed beneficial, it’s the political point scoring that I disagree with.
Unfortunately most of these decisions are all motivated by one thing, money. I fear that will remain to be the main motivation for governing bodies for a very long time to come.
RR
Really sorry to hear that mate.
Condolences, and I hope your family is doing OK.
Thanks everyone. My father did test positive for Covid-19 but he was very much in the category of 'pre-existing conditions'. He was in hospital for a week, and looking like probably not pulling through, before he started coughing and got tested. He soldiered on though, even lasting about 72 hours after he stopped drinking water. The worst part was that we couldn't be with him.
Really sorry to hear that RR
Red Russian Sorry for your loss
We now have the worst death toll in Europe and second worst in the world.
Meanwhile we are being encouraged to download an app and share our whereabouts with a company associated with criminal data harvesting from Brexit.
Nigel Farage has repeatedly broken the law to visit distant beaches in order to continue being the countries greatest racist.
Our Chinese friends colleagues and neighbours are experiencing a huge rise in racist hate crime directed at them due to misinformation peddled by the far right in the US & U.K.
Health secretary Matt Hancock condescendingly tells an A&E doctor and fellow MP who happens to be a woman to “watch her tone”
And as for 100’000 tests a day, it was a PR stunt, based on the number of tests issued not completed or
returned, and not achieved since.
How utterly depressing.
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 19 hours ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 6 seconds ago
When the tories have done well they've been rightly praised, the induction of furlough and committing to paying people who can't work was rightly praised.
Its the lack of accountability that's the problem and every government must be held to task, its literally their job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We can travel up to 5km from today and golf courses are open in 2 weeks
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The exit plan looks solid enough once we don't get a new spike in cases, August 10th, if all goes to plan, will be the session of all sessions!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Social distancing needs to be adhered to, even in pubs. Knowing the irish, that will never happen. Second outbreak eminent.
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 19 hours, 3 minutes ago
comment by gratedbean (U4885)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by EastUpper (U11623)
posted 1 minute ago
Wow that's surprising! One if the largest populations in the EU has one on the highest death tolls.
Who would have thought?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hasn’t Germany got the largest population
----------------------------------------------------------------------
83 million.
7000 deaths.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you both understand the meaning of the words "one of the"?
comment by Stay Safe (U1250)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 19 hours, 3 minutes ago
comment by gratedbean (U4885)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by EastUpper (U11623)
posted 1 minute ago
Wow that's surprising! One if the largest populations in the EU has one on the highest death tolls.
Who would have thought?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hasn’t Germany got the largest population
----------------------------------------------------------------------
83 million.
7000 deaths.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you both understand the meaning of the words "one of the"?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do.
Do you understand the meaning of highest death toll in Europe and second highest in the world?
I’m in no mood for tolerating apologists or whataboutery right now.
Okay we have actual death count, you know, If you count the dead bodies of our nearest and dearest, you get one figure.
Then when you take demographics, population density, fudging practise and the utter denial calculator out, you get another figure, and that's the figure the executive use, the one that says we've done okay, we're not as bad as anyone else.
Hec
Hope you’re keeping well.
I'm in great form Sizzle mate, thanks for asking, I'm definitely bored, getting fatter and longer haired but I'm safe.
Hope you and yours are doing okay too.
Yeah, not too bad thanks.
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 3 hours, 41 minutes ago
We now have the worst death toll in Europe and second worst in the world.
Meanwhile we are being encouraged to download an app and share our whereabouts with a company associated with criminal data harvesting from Brexit.
Nigel Farage has repeatedly broken the law to visit distant beaches in order to continue being the countries greatest racist.
Our Chinese friends colleagues and neighbours are experiencing a huge rise in racist hate crime directed at them due to misinformation peddled by the far right in the US & U.K.
Health secretary Matt Hancock condescendingly tells an A&E doctor and fellow MP who happens to be a woman to “watch her tone”
And as for 100’000 tests a day, it was a PR stunt, based on the number of tests issued not completed or
returned, and not achieved since.
How utterly depressing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I said to some friends (as a joke) that the gov would do less tests in the build up to the final day of April then fudge the numbers to make just that one day look good... Then they facking did it. Corrupt, criminal caants that would have been locked up in any normal society FFS.
comment by Scruttocks (U19684)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 3 hours, 41 minutes ago
We now have the worst death toll in Europe and second worst in the world.
Meanwhile we are being encouraged to download an app and share our whereabouts with a company associated with criminal data harvesting from Brexit.
Nigel Farage has repeatedly broken the law to visit distant beaches in order to continue being the countries greatest racist.
Our Chinese friends colleagues and neighbours are experiencing a huge rise in racist hate crime directed at them due to misinformation peddled by the far right in the US & U.K.
Health secretary Matt Hancock condescendingly tells an A&E doctor and fellow MP who happens to be a woman to “watch her tone”
And as for 100’000 tests a day, it was a PR stunt, based on the number of tests issued not completed or
returned, and not achieved since.
How utterly depressing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I said to some friends (as a joke) that the gov would do less tests in the build up to the final day of April then fudge the numbers to make just that one day look good... Then they facking did it. Corrupt, criminal caants that would have been locked up in any normal society FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No matter what the government did. Karen from Facebook could of done better.
Shouldn’t pay attention to total deaths figures as each country does it differently.
comment by Bennyville (U8058)
posted 7 minutes ago
Shouldn’t pay attention to total deaths figures as each country does it differently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A death is a death, no matter how or when you count it.
Sign in if you want to comment
The UK : The highest death toll in Europe.
Page 9 of 11
7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11
posted on 5/5/20
*are we not better than that yet
posted on 5/5/20
comment by (U22224)
posted 3 hours, 43 minutes ago
What do you want the government to actually do? When you get idiots having house party’s going to b&q and Costa coffee that’s down to the individuals. If the government. Let say force a really strict lock down. Army on the streets. No walking your dog, No outdoor exercise. Can only shop at the grocery store closes to your house once a week. The same people would still be moaning. What do you actually want the government to do right now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How about, adopt a social philosophy that promotes and protects
* the rights of all
* wellbeing above profiteering
* cooperation above gangsterism
* fairness above conflict
* hard work, creativity, intelligences and professionalism over lazy thinking
* social & personal responsibility above exploitation
* science over myth perpetuation
* rationality over xenophobia
Decades of deceitful intentions from political representatives - mediated by their mouthpieces in the privately owned/corporate financed MSM - have created our dysfunctional, borderline sociopathic, society.
Pretending (any and all) parliaments haven't made our biological position weaker, is the ultimate in complicit slavery
posted on 5/5/20
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
"It's all about population density" has become a key trope for those who want to absolve UK government diversion from international recommendations while implying that having too many immigrants is the route of the UK's exceptionally high death rate.
It's well known that nationalist populism seeks simplistic answers to complex problems - e.g. when the only policy Farage would offer around the NHS was stopping foreigners coming to the UK to get AIDS treatment, when every policy expert acknowledged that health tourism was the tiniest of scratches on resources compared to systemic underfunding of our system.
The answer here is also to look at facts. If population density alone simply explains our place among the worst hit countries in the world, why:
...has Germany, a country with only slightly lower population density, and much of the population living in dense cities, escaped severe impacts?
...has the Netherlands, with around double the population density of the UK and a similarly ethnically diverse and mobile urban population, got something like half the deaths per capita that we have?
...why indeed was Spain so severely hit when it has a population density three times lower than the UK? And why has Portugal, with a higher density than Spain, a similar level of ethnic diversity and a lot of people crossing the border in either direction, avoided exposure to anywhere near the same degree?
It's almost as if there's a complex web of factors informing these outcomes, and as if the decisions made by the authorities, the timing of those decisions, and the effectiveness of communications may have had quite a big role to play.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Population density is of course not the only factor but it is important to take into account when measuring our government’s decisions and performance of those decisions.
There is also, I think, an importance on the total number of the population. Portugal is around 10m, The Netherlands is around 17m. Spain is around 47m, France around 67m as is the UK. It is a lot harder to manage when the numbers get to this level with or without density consideration.
Personally, the only reason I raise these points is that I think it is in very poor taste and all too easy to point the finger at this stage and I find it so archaic that people link this to particular party politics when the reality is that both Labour & the Conservatives have been so similar in the last 20 years. Can you imagine what many of the strongest of Labour supporters on here would have said if the Tories were in charge during the Iraq War travesty or the 2008 financial crash? Good lord that would be some storm eh?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, there are people who are purely tribal in their instincts. There are also people who left the Conservative party when it adopted UKIP's populism, and millions who deserted Labour after the Iraq war. Just because there are tribally minded people doesn't mean that any criticism of the government at the moment is in bad faith. At the beginning of this crisis much of the scientific community was saying 'hang on, this strategy looks risky, can you show us the basis on which you've decided to break from international recommendations?' The government hasn't been transparent about its decision making and the more severe consequences predicted publicly by many scientists have come to pass.
Speaking personally, I'd really like to be able able to say that my government handling this crisis as well as possible. My father passed away last month from Covid-19 and my elderly mother is alone and vulnerable. I believe its to her benefit and for all my fellow citizens to question the government, hold it to account, speak up when we're concerned that they may be making errors.
As for population density, the point I was making was in response to some who are in a not very coded way saying having too many immigrants is the main reason we have been hard hit. That's objectively wrong, and despicable, and it's dangerous to spread false ideas at times like this.
posted on 5/5/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 5/5/20
RR sorry to hear that
posted on 5/5/20
RR - totally agree on the point re: immigration; that is simply wrong as you say.
I echo the above posts regarding your & your mother’s loss.
I always enjoy reading your posts as you are one of a few who post regularly but in a very reasoned and adult manner. Questioning the government and hold it to account in this manner is indeed beneficial, it’s the political point scoring that I disagree with.
Unfortunately most of these decisions are all motivated by one thing, money. I fear that will remain to be the main motivation for governing bodies for a very long time to come.
posted on 5/5/20
RR
posted on 5/5/20
RR
Really sorry to hear that mate.
Condolences, and I hope your family is doing OK.
posted on 5/5/20
Thanks everyone. My father did test positive for Covid-19 but he was very much in the category of 'pre-existing conditions'. He was in hospital for a week, and looking like probably not pulling through, before he started coughing and got tested. He soldiered on though, even lasting about 72 hours after he stopped drinking water. The worst part was that we couldn't be with him.
posted on 6/5/20
Really sorry to hear that RR
posted on 6/5/20
Red Russian Sorry for your loss
posted on 6/5/20
We now have the worst death toll in Europe and second worst in the world.
Meanwhile we are being encouraged to download an app and share our whereabouts with a company associated with criminal data harvesting from Brexit.
Nigel Farage has repeatedly broken the law to visit distant beaches in order to continue being the countries greatest racist.
Our Chinese friends colleagues and neighbours are experiencing a huge rise in racist hate crime directed at them due to misinformation peddled by the far right in the US & U.K.
Health secretary Matt Hancock condescendingly tells an A&E doctor and fellow MP who happens to be a woman to “watch her tone”
And as for 100’000 tests a day, it was a PR stunt, based on the number of tests issued not completed or
returned, and not achieved since.
How utterly depressing.
posted on 6/5/20
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 19 hours ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 6 seconds ago
When the tories have done well they've been rightly praised, the induction of furlough and committing to paying people who can't work was rightly praised.
Its the lack of accountability that's the problem and every government must be held to task, its literally their job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We can travel up to 5km from today and golf courses are open in 2 weeks
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The exit plan looks solid enough once we don't get a new spike in cases, August 10th, if all goes to plan, will be the session of all sessions!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Social distancing needs to be adhered to, even in pubs. Knowing the irish, that will never happen. Second outbreak eminent.
posted on 6/5/20
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 19 hours, 3 minutes ago
comment by gratedbean (U4885)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by EastUpper (U11623)
posted 1 minute ago
Wow that's surprising! One if the largest populations in the EU has one on the highest death tolls.
Who would have thought?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hasn’t Germany got the largest population
----------------------------------------------------------------------
83 million.
7000 deaths.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you both understand the meaning of the words "one of the"?
posted on 6/5/20
comment by Stay Safe (U1250)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 19 hours, 3 minutes ago
comment by gratedbean (U4885)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by EastUpper (U11623)
posted 1 minute ago
Wow that's surprising! One if the largest populations in the EU has one on the highest death tolls.
Who would have thought?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hasn’t Germany got the largest population
----------------------------------------------------------------------
83 million.
7000 deaths.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you both understand the meaning of the words "one of the"?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do.
Do you understand the meaning of highest death toll in Europe and second highest in the world?
posted on 6/5/20
I’m in no mood for tolerating apologists or whataboutery right now.
posted on 6/5/20
Okay we have actual death count, you know, If you count the dead bodies of our nearest and dearest, you get one figure.
Then when you take demographics, population density, fudging practise and the utter denial calculator out, you get another figure, and that's the figure the executive use, the one that says we've done okay, we're not as bad as anyone else.
posted on 6/5/20
Hec
Hope you’re keeping well.
posted on 6/5/20
I'm in great form Sizzle mate, thanks for asking, I'm definitely bored, getting fatter and longer haired but I'm safe.
Hope you and yours are doing okay too.
posted on 6/5/20
Yeah, not too bad thanks.
posted on 6/5/20
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 3 hours, 41 minutes ago
We now have the worst death toll in Europe and second worst in the world.
Meanwhile we are being encouraged to download an app and share our whereabouts with a company associated with criminal data harvesting from Brexit.
Nigel Farage has repeatedly broken the law to visit distant beaches in order to continue being the countries greatest racist.
Our Chinese friends colleagues and neighbours are experiencing a huge rise in racist hate crime directed at them due to misinformation peddled by the far right in the US & U.K.
Health secretary Matt Hancock condescendingly tells an A&E doctor and fellow MP who happens to be a woman to “watch her tone”
And as for 100’000 tests a day, it was a PR stunt, based on the number of tests issued not completed or
returned, and not achieved since.
How utterly depressing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I said to some friends (as a joke) that the gov would do less tests in the build up to the final day of April then fudge the numbers to make just that one day look good... Then they facking did it. Corrupt, criminal caants that would have been locked up in any normal society FFS.
posted on 6/5/20
comment by Scruttocks (U19684)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 3 hours, 41 minutes ago
We now have the worst death toll in Europe and second worst in the world.
Meanwhile we are being encouraged to download an app and share our whereabouts with a company associated with criminal data harvesting from Brexit.
Nigel Farage has repeatedly broken the law to visit distant beaches in order to continue being the countries greatest racist.
Our Chinese friends colleagues and neighbours are experiencing a huge rise in racist hate crime directed at them due to misinformation peddled by the far right in the US & U.K.
Health secretary Matt Hancock condescendingly tells an A&E doctor and fellow MP who happens to be a woman to “watch her tone”
And as for 100’000 tests a day, it was a PR stunt, based on the number of tests issued not completed or
returned, and not achieved since.
How utterly depressing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I said to some friends (as a joke) that the gov would do less tests in the build up to the final day of April then fudge the numbers to make just that one day look good... Then they facking did it. Corrupt, criminal caants that would have been locked up in any normal society FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 6/5/20
No matter what the government did. Karen from Facebook could of done better.
posted on 6/5/20
Shouldn’t pay attention to total deaths figures as each country does it differently.
posted on 6/5/20
comment by Bennyville (U8058)
posted 7 minutes ago
Shouldn’t pay attention to total deaths figures as each country does it differently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A death is a death, no matter how or when you count it.
Page 9 of 11
7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11