comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 9 hours, 11 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----Old Trafford record attendance.....WOLVES V GRIMSBY. .......lolz (U11551)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----Old Trafford record attendance.....WOLVES V GRIMSBY. .......lolz (U11551)
posted 51 minutes ago
Good ol' Hamas volunteering their people for mass suicide again for a war they can never ever win. But nah, Israel's fault of course.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. Clearly they're not very clever as they're just doing whatever it takes to give Israel an excuse to do what Israel has always wanted to do.
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Simplistic as it seems, this is exactly it. Whenever any international power asks Israel why, they have a mountain of terrorist evidence to fall back on. The flip side is if Hamas actually lobbied at international levels for a few years while not committing terrorist acts then they would gerner sympathy pretty quickly and the pressure would be on Israel.
But lets be honest, Hamas have zero interest in doing that and just want to commit terrorist acts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly this discussion is painful. People who don't know the elementary facts just firing off nonsense.
We have a documented diplomatic record. It shows two clear things; a negotiated settlement, including with Hamas, has been possible for a long, long time, but repeatedly blocked by the US & Israel.
Many, many ceasefire agreements have been put in place in the last two decades, overwhelmingly honoured by Hamas and repeatedly broken by Israel.
Despite the above two points, the conditions for Palestinians trapped in Gaza have gotten worse, and Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank are routinely killed, attacked, beaten, incarcerated and humiliated on a daily basis (which never makes it to the news until brief moments where the dead Palestinians to Israelis ratio starts to narrow, then it and only then does it become headline news - when dead P's to I's is at a ratio of around 100:1, then it's simply not newsworthy).
There couldn't be a more potent breeding ground for extremism than the conditions inflicted upon Palestinians by Israel imaginable - as intelligence and security agencies openly concede - and what we're now seeing is the natural and horrific consequence of that.
I very much doubt any kind of settlement with Hamas could ever be negotiated at this point, but we have to remember that those are choices Israel & the US made repeatedly, for decades. The idea that Hamas are *only* interested in violence simply isn't (or at least *hasn't* been) true, and their violence we should remember is comparatively tiny to that of Israel's.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m sorry but some of that just isn’t true either. Which settlement did Hamas agree to? You also seems to be ignoring a lot of the past.
I don’t doubt the US’s involvement but your post really seems to try to absolve the Arab’s and Palestinian’s responsibility in this long conflict, let alone Hamas’ responsibility.
Breaking ceasefire? In 2008 it took less than a week for Islamic jihadists to fire rockets into Israel, less than a week.
You’re stating that only one side has ever wanted a settlement and that is not Israel. This is also completely untrue mate.
It would be useful to all to remember where the word Palestine actually came from, the Romans labelled the land of Israel Syria Pallaestina centuries before Christ in a dig against the Jews.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This argument is tempered by the fact that Palestine are not the occupiers, they are the occupied. It's a bit tricky to argue that both sides are to blame IMO. Of course organisations like Hamas do things that get in the way of peace, and they are to blame for that, but there wouldn't be that scenario in the first place without the occupation, oppression and denial of human rights.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But this is the whole dispute - occupiers. Who has the right to be there? As mentioned above the name Palestine literally originated to remove the link between Jews and the land of Israel.
As has been pointed to previously - what happens in the West Bank? Where are the constant rockets, missiles between the West Bank and Israel?
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At this point of the debate why even talk about missiles in West Bank? There wouldn't be any missiles if Israel lived and let live. A dispute over rights to land does not mean that you deny Palestinians basic human rights, control their destiny, lock their borders, underfund their society and oppress them. Doing that is what leads to missiles incoming in your direction.
You're jumping the queue and going straight for the missiles part.
And the name Palestine would have never been used to sever links between Jews and Israel if the Palestinians didn't actually live there as well.
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I’m sorry but if you cannot see the difference between Fatah and Hamas then I cannot help you.
Israel is Israel yet the two areas are experiencing very different situations. Why is that? Israel is still Israel, something else therefore must be different - what do you think that difference is?
The rest of your post is just pointing out the atrocities (only one sided I might add) carried over a land dispute
Palestine is an area, not a people. The reason it was created by the Romans was it was a resentful punishment against the Jews, not because there were nomadic people there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Serious question. Are you a hasbara robot?
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
Both sides should be criticised but some people seem to criticise Palestine more than Israeli which is ridiculous and biased IMO.
Criticising Israel more than Palestine isn't ridiculous IMO, because Israel are the occupiers and the oppressors who have created the perfect conditions, especially in Gaza, for an organisation like Hamas to exist, grow in strength and to continue subsist for all this time.
What do you think will happen when you do what they've done? Throughout history, every occupation, oppression or acute denial of rights has given rise to a violent resistance, oft branded as terrorism. It's a par for the course reaction.
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I could say the reverse to the first part of that.
I don’t see Israelis dancing in our streets when innocent Palestinians are killed, that’s for sure.
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You just don't get it. Occupation leads to violent resistance and rejoicing by the oppressed when a blow is struck. It's how it works throughout human history. The solution is not to moan about the celebrations but to address the occupation and denial of human rights. All human beings should be as free as you and me.
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Oh I do get it, thanks. What you don’t get is the occupation. For one that is disputed and two, as you are clearly ignoring, the two different ‘governments’ are receiving much different treatment from the same Israeli government. Ask yourself why that is.
I’m not trying to find a solution, I have already stated many times what needs to happen for peace to come back, as have you.
You started saying that people seem to be criticising Palestine more than Israel, I retorted by saying that I don’t see Israelis dancing in the streets and now you’re saying that I shouldn’t moan about celebrations and should address the occupations. So you can moan about people criticising Palestine more than Israel but I cannot?
🤔
The rest of your post is just pointing out the atrocities (only one sided I might add) carried over a land dispute
====
I've printed out that Israel are the occupiers, the oppressors, the deniers of basic human rights etc. Anything the Palestinians do is a reaction to that, whether I approve of their actions or not.
How is that one sided? It's a fact.
This really isn't complicated, you just don't want to face some facts.
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
Hamas isn't a legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in the way the Israeli government represents Israel. It maintains power in Gaza through coercion, through violence, and of course the Israeli blockade of Gaza keeps the population too poor and desperate to effectively organise any alternative to a ruthless paramilitary force with generous Iranian backing.
So collective punishment of 2 million Gaza residents (half of them children) for the acts of their overlords (who would have fully anticipated Israel's response) is abhorrent. Those here accepting this collective punishment as appropriate are basically endorsing Hamas logic, which saw Jews (and non-Jewish Israel residents) as fair game because of the actions of their state in killing Palestinians.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well said, it's a tough one for the Israeli government to take on the chin and do nothing though.
When a terrorist group attacked America, NATO invaded a nation.
The sheer inhumanity of the Hamas attacks probably made it difficult not to act.
I don't see how a peaceful outcome can be agreed. You can defend and condemn both sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To some people there is no excuse for Palestine to kill innocents in their decades long fight for freedom, but when it comes to Israel it's justified to do so because of Hamas actions.
Doesn't add up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both sides are at fault, it only happens that Israel are fortunate to have received support from the US & EU.
If the shoe were on the other foot it'd be no different.
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 9 hours, 11 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----Old Trafford record attendance.....WOLVES V GRIMSBY. .......lolz (U11551)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----Old Trafford record attendance.....WOLVES V GRIMSBY. .......lolz (U11551)
posted 51 minutes ago
Good ol' Hamas volunteering their people for mass suicide again for a war they can never ever win. But nah, Israel's fault of course.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. Clearly they're not very clever as they're just doing whatever it takes to give Israel an excuse to do what Israel has always wanted to do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Simplistic as it seems, this is exactly it. Whenever any international power asks Israel why, they have a mountain of terrorist evidence to fall back on. The flip side is if Hamas actually lobbied at international levels for a few years while not committing terrorist acts then they would gerner sympathy pretty quickly and the pressure would be on Israel.
But lets be honest, Hamas have zero interest in doing that and just want to commit terrorist acts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly this discussion is painful. People who don't know the elementary facts just firing off nonsense.
We have a documented diplomatic record. It shows two clear things; a negotiated settlement, including with Hamas, has been possible for a long, long time, but repeatedly blocked by the US & Israel.
Many, many ceasefire agreements have been put in place in the last two decades, overwhelmingly honoured by Hamas and repeatedly broken by Israel.
Despite the above two points, the conditions for Palestinians trapped in Gaza have gotten worse, and Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank are routinely killed, attacked, beaten, incarcerated and humiliated on a daily basis (which never makes it to the news until brief moments where the dead Palestinians to Israelis ratio starts to narrow, then it and only then does it become headline news - when dead P's to I's is at a ratio of around 100:1, then it's simply not newsworthy).
There couldn't be a more potent breeding ground for extremism than the conditions inflicted upon Palestinians by Israel imaginable - as intelligence and security agencies openly concede - and what we're now seeing is the natural and horrific consequence of that.
I very much doubt any kind of settlement with Hamas could ever be negotiated at this point, but we have to remember that those are choices Israel & the US made repeatedly, for decades. The idea that Hamas are *only* interested in violence simply isn't (or at least *hasn't* been) true, and their violence we should remember is comparatively tiny to that of Israel's.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m sorry but some of that just isn’t true either. Which settlement did Hamas agree to? You also seems to be ignoring a lot of the past.
I don’t doubt the US’s involvement but your post really seems to try to absolve the Arab’s and Palestinian’s responsibility in this long conflict, let alone Hamas’ responsibility.
Breaking ceasefire? In 2008 it took less than a week for Islamic jihadists to fire rockets into Israel, less than a week.
You’re stating that only one side has ever wanted a settlement and that is not Israel. This is also completely untrue mate.
It would be useful to all to remember where the word Palestine actually came from, the Romans labelled the land of Israel Syria Pallaestina centuries before Christ in a dig against the Jews.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This argument is tempered by the fact that Palestine are not the occupiers, they are the occupied. It's a bit tricky to argue that both sides are to blame IMO. Of course organisations like Hamas do things that get in the way of peace, and they are to blame for that, but there wouldn't be that scenario in the first place without the occupation, oppression and denial of human rights.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But this is the whole dispute - occupiers. Who has the right to be there? As mentioned above the name Palestine literally originated to remove the link between Jews and the land of Israel.
As has been pointed to previously - what happens in the West Bank? Where are the constant rockets, missiles between the West Bank and Israel?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
At this point of the debate why even talk about missiles in West Bank? There wouldn't be any missiles if Israel lived and let live. A dispute over rights to land does not mean that you deny Palestinians basic human rights, control their destiny, lock their borders, underfund their society and oppress them. Doing that is what leads to missiles incoming in your direction.
You're jumping the queue and going straight for the missiles part.
And the name Palestine would have never been used to sever links between Jews and Israel if the Palestinians didn't actually live there as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m sorry but if you cannot see the difference between Fatah and Hamas then I cannot help you.
Israel is Israel yet the two areas are experiencing very different situations. Why is that? Israel is still Israel, something else therefore must be different - what do you think that difference is?
The rest of your post is just pointing out the atrocities (only one sided I might add) carried over a land dispute
Palestine is an area, not a people. The reason it was created by the Romans was it was a resentful punishment against the Jews, not because there were nomadic people there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Serious question. Are you a hasbara robot?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You haven’t read most of my posts on this subject
Oh I do get it, thanks. What you don’t get is the occupation. For one that is disputed and two, as you are clearly ignoring, the two different ‘governments’ are receiving much different treatment from the same Israeli government. Ask yourself why that is
====
I don't ask myself that because my observation throughout history is that those oppressed that collaborate with oppressors get better treatment than those who do not collaborate. The more you uprise, the more the oppressors put you down. But even those who collaborate more than others still remain oppressed and denied basic human rights.
In the grand scheme it doesn't matter how they chose to fight back. Some will always fight harder than others, or make better decisions that others in any particular situation.
The question you should ask yourself is why are we even talking about it in the first place.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
Hamas isn't a legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in the way the Israeli government represents Israel. It maintains power in Gaza through coercion, through violence, and of course the Israeli blockade of Gaza keeps the population too poor and desperate to effectively organise any alternative to a ruthless paramilitary force with generous Iranian backing.
So collective punishment of 2 million Gaza residents (half of them children) for the acts of their overlords (who would have fully anticipated Israel's response) is abhorrent. Those here accepting this collective punishment as appropriate are basically endorsing Hamas logic, which saw Jews (and non-Jewish Israel residents) as fair game because of the actions of their state in killing Palestinians.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well said, it's a tough one for the Israeli government to take on the chin and do nothing though.
When a terrorist group attacked America, NATO invaded a nation.
The sheer inhumanity of the Hamas attacks probably made it difficult not to act.
I don't see how a peaceful outcome can be agreed. You can defend and condemn both sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To some people there is no excuse for Palestine to kill innocents in their decades long fight for freedom, but when it comes to Israel it's justified to do so because of Hamas actions.
Doesn't add up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both sides are at fault, it only happens that Israel are fortunate to have received support from the US & EU.
If the shoe were on the other foot it'd be no different.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Technically you are correct, but both sides are at fault for what? It's not exactly the same thing I don't see Palestine expanding into Israel and denying Israelis basic human rights.
Israel are at fault for oppressing Palestinians whereas Palestinians are at fault for fighting back.
Makes sense.
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 1 minute ago
Oh I do get it, thanks. What you don’t get is the occupation. For one that is disputed and two, as you are clearly ignoring, the two different ‘governments’ are receiving much different treatment from the same Israeli government. Ask yourself why that is
====
I don't ask myself that because my observation throughout history is that those oppressed that collaborate with oppressors get better treatment than those who do not collaborate. The more you uprise, the more the oppressors put you down. But even those who collaborate more than others still remain oppressed and denied basic human rights.
In the grand scheme it doesn't matter how they chose to fight back. Some will always fight harder than others, or make better decisions that others in any particular situation.
The question you should ask yourself is why are we even talking about it in the first place.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because it’s a piece of land that has been fought over for thousands of years and both parties feel they have a legitimate claim to it.
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
Hamas isn't a legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in the way the Israeli government represents Israel. It maintains power in Gaza through coercion, through violence, and of course the Israeli blockade of Gaza keeps the population too poor and desperate to effectively organise any alternative to a ruthless paramilitary force with generous Iranian backing.
So collective punishment of 2 million Gaza residents (half of them children) for the acts of their overlords (who would have fully anticipated Israel's response) is abhorrent. Those here accepting this collective punishment as appropriate are basically endorsing Hamas logic, which saw Jews (and non-Jewish Israel residents) as fair game because of the actions of their state in killing Palestinians.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well said, it's a tough one for the Israeli government to take on the chin and do nothing though.
When a terrorist group attacked America, NATO invaded a nation.
The sheer inhumanity of the Hamas attacks probably made it difficult not to act.
I don't see how a peaceful outcome can be agreed. You can defend and condemn both sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To some people there is no excuse for Palestine to kill innocents in their decades long fight for freedom, but when it comes to Israel it's justified to do so because of Hamas actions.
Doesn't add up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both sides are at fault, it only happens that Israel are fortunate to have received support from the US & EU.
If the shoe were on the other foot it'd be no different.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Technically you are correct, but both sides are at fault for what? It's not exactly the same thing I don't see Palestine expanding into Israel and denying Israelis basic human rights.
Israel are at fault for oppressing Palestinians whereas Palestinians are at fault for fighting back.
Makes sense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're right about the current situation, read up on the past.
The western Journalists know exactly what they're doing when they conflate protests against the Israeli occupation, and attacks on civilians in Gaza, with support for Hamas. But they're confident that the rules of fair coverage don't apply to Palestinians, or the British left who stand with them.
The support for a Palestinian holocaust is unbelievable
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 0 seconds ago
The western Journalists know exactly what they're doing when they conflate protests against the Israeli occupation, and attacks on civilians in Gaza, with support for Hamas. But they're confident that the rules of fair coverage don't apply to Palestinians, or the British left who stand with them.
The support for a Palestinian holocaust is unbelievable
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So the people dancing in the streets over the weekend weren’t supporting what Hamas did?
Ok then
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
Hamas isn't a legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in the way the Israeli government represents Israel. It maintains power in Gaza through coercion, through violence, and of course the Israeli blockade of Gaza keeps the population too poor and desperate to effectively organise any alternative to a ruthless paramilitary force with generous Iranian backing.
So collective punishment of 2 million Gaza residents (half of them children) for the acts of their overlords (who would have fully anticipated Israel's response) is abhorrent. Those here accepting this collective punishment as appropriate are basically endorsing Hamas logic, which saw Jews (and non-Jewish Israel residents) as fair game because of the actions of their state in killing Palestinians.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well said, it's a tough one for the Israeli government to take on the chin and do nothing though.
When a terrorist group attacked America, NATO invaded a nation.
The sheer inhumanity of the Hamas attacks probably made it difficult not to act.
I don't see how a peaceful outcome can be agreed. You can defend and condemn both sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To some people there is no excuse for Palestine to kill innocents in their decades long fight for freedom, but when it comes to Israel it's justified to do so because of Hamas actions.
Doesn't add up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both sides are at fault, it only happens that Israel are fortunate to have received support from the US & EU.
If the shoe were on the other foot it'd be no different.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Technically you are correct, but both sides are at fault for what? It's not exactly the same thing I don't see Palestine expanding into Israel and denying Israelis basic human rights.
Israel are at fault for oppressing Palestinians whereas Palestinians are at fault for fighting back.
Makes sense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're right about the current situation, read up on the past.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, thanks l.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 0 seconds ago
The western Journalists know exactly what they're doing when they conflate protests against the Israeli occupation, and attacks on civilians in Gaza, with support for Hamas. But they're confident that the rules of fair coverage don't apply to Palestinians, or the British left who stand with them.
The support for a Palestinian holocaust is unbelievable
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So the people dancing in the streets over the weekend weren’t supporting what Hamas did?
Ok then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn’t see people dancing, If they did it would have been those subjected to horrific crimes over 50 years - assume you are talking about a minute Gaza 10 people?? If not show us a link/ video.
Doesn’t justify democracies around the world in the west calling for genocide and collective punishment. Give your head a wobble
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 0 seconds ago
The western Journalists know exactly what they're doing when they conflate protests against the Israeli occupation, and attacks on civilians in Gaza, with support for Hamas. But they're confident that the rules of fair coverage don't apply to Palestinians, or the British left who stand with them.
The support for a Palestinian holocaust is unbelievable
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So the people dancing in the streets over the weekend weren’t supporting what Hamas did?
Ok then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn’t see people dancing, If they did it would have been those subjected to horrific crimes over 50 years - assume you are talking about a minute Gaza 10 people?? If not show us a link/ video.
Doesn’t justify democracies around the world in the west calling for genocide and collective punishment. Give your head a wobble
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Calling for genocide? And you say I should give my head a wobble?
And no it was in the UK. I’m sure a smart guy like you knows how to use Google, do it.
it's frightening seeing all these celebrities and elected officials giving it "we stand by israel and their right to defend themselves"
then you see dead babies.
Hamas actions were an act of terror and should never be condoned, but why is a blind eye being turned toward terror aimed at Palestinians, for decades now?
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 48 seconds ago
it's frightening seeing all these celebrities and elected officials giving it "we stand by israel and their right to defend themselves"
then you see dead babies.
Hamas actions were an act of terror and should never be condoned, but why is a blind eye being turned toward terror aimed at Palestinians, for decades now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dropping modern bombs is more civilized I guess.
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 48 seconds ago
it's frightening seeing all these celebrities and elected officials giving it "we stand by israel and their right to defend themselves"
then you see dead babies.
Hamas actions were an act of terror and should never be condoned, but why is a blind eye being turned toward terror aimed at Palestinians, for decades now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dropping modern bombs is more civilized I guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Must be ‘western values’
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 3 minutes ago
it's frightening seeing all these celebrities and elected officials giving it "we stand by israel and their right to defend themselves"
then you see dead babies.
Hamas actions were an act of terror and should never be condoned, but why is a blind eye being turned toward terror aimed at Palestinians, for decades now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I wish the right message was put out more. Israel needs to stop expanding Hamas needs to go and both parties get to the negotiating table
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 hours, 32 minutes ago
Hamas isn't a legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in the way the Israeli government represents Israel. It maintains power in Gaza through coercion, through violence, and of course the Israeli blockade of Gaza keeps the population too poor and desperate to effectively organise any alternative to a ruthless paramilitary force with generous Iranian backing.
So collective punishment of 2 million Gaza residents (half of them children) for the acts of their overlords (who would have fully anticipated Israel's response) is abhorrent. Those here accepting this collective punishment as appropriate are basically endorsing Hamas logic, which saw Jews (and non-Jewish Israel residents) as fair game because of the actions of their state in killing Palestinians.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wrong.
Hamas is the legitimate government of Gaza.
They won an election. Went on to liquidate the opposition party members.
Why some people like to lie openly I would never understand.
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 48 seconds ago
it's frightening seeing all these celebrities and elected officials giving it "we stand by israel and their right to defend themselves"
then you see dead babies.
Hamas actions were an act of terror and should never be condoned, but why is a blind eye being turned toward terror aimed at Palestinians, for decades now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dropping modern bombs is more civilized I guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Must be ‘western values’
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As opposed to what? Hiding behind civilians? Oh no, it’s the deliberate murder of civilians at a music concert and parading of their naked corpse and spitting on them whilst chanting Allahu Akbar. Yeah those values are much better.
Hamas won the elections in 2007 and since then lost the latest election which was done 15 years ago. Machini you are the liar here.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 48 seconds ago
it's frightening seeing all these celebrities and elected officials giving it "we stand by israel and their right to defend themselves"
then you see dead babies.
Hamas actions were an act of terror and should never be condoned, but why is a blind eye being turned toward terror aimed at Palestinians, for decades now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dropping modern bombs is more civilized I guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Must be ‘western values’
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As opposed to what? Hiding behind civilians? Oh no, it’s the deliberate murder of civilians at a music concert and parading of their naked corpse and spitting on them whilst chanting Allahu Akbar. Yeah those values are much better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The videos on Twitter are only those of Israel’s killing innocent civilians and urinating on them. Your blindness and deafness is either deliberate or shows your ignorance
Wrong cannot right a wrong. Rights to life, homes and identity belong to everybody. Let's keep our hearts open for peace to have a place at the table. Remember the innocents who are suffering. True peace can only be built on a foundation of justice which should be equally distributed by the international community. And we all have a part to play
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 28 minutes ago
The western Journalists know exactly what they're doing when they conflate protests against the Israeli occupation, and attacks on civilians in Gaza, with support for Hamas. But they're confident that the rules of fair coverage don't apply to Palestinians, or the British left who stand with them.
The support for a Palestinian holocaust is unbelievable
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why not speak the truth for once. The Arabs want all Jews dead.
The Arabs don't want a Jewish state in Palestine.
When they speak about occupation, what land are they referring to?
Gaza is governed by Hamas and the West Bank is governed by Fatah.
When you mention Blockade, they never mention the Egyptian border. I wonder why.
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 48 seconds ago
it's frightening seeing all these celebrities and elected officials giving it "we stand by israel and their right to defend themselves"
then you see dead babies.
Hamas actions were an act of terror and should never be condoned, but why is a blind eye being turned toward terror aimed at Palestinians, for decades now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dropping modern bombs is more civilized I guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Must be ‘western values’
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As opposed to what? Hiding behind civilians? Oh no, it’s the deliberate murder of civilians at a music concert and parading of their naked corpse and spitting on them whilst chanting Allahu Akbar. Yeah those values are much better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The videos on Twitter are only those of Israel’s killing innocent civilians and urinating on them. Your blindness and deafness is either deliberate or shows your ignorance
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re a liar.
Israel waaay out of line here
Page 4 of 11
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posted on 10/10/23
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 9 hours, 11 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----Old Trafford record attendance.....WOLVES V GRIMSBY. .......lolz (U11551)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----Old Trafford record attendance.....WOLVES V GRIMSBY. .......lolz (U11551)
posted 51 minutes ago
Good ol' Hamas volunteering their people for mass suicide again for a war they can never ever win. But nah, Israel's fault of course.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. Clearly they're not very clever as they're just doing whatever it takes to give Israel an excuse to do what Israel has always wanted to do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Simplistic as it seems, this is exactly it. Whenever any international power asks Israel why, they have a mountain of terrorist evidence to fall back on. The flip side is if Hamas actually lobbied at international levels for a few years while not committing terrorist acts then they would gerner sympathy pretty quickly and the pressure would be on Israel.
But lets be honest, Hamas have zero interest in doing that and just want to commit terrorist acts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly this discussion is painful. People who don't know the elementary facts just firing off nonsense.
We have a documented diplomatic record. It shows two clear things; a negotiated settlement, including with Hamas, has been possible for a long, long time, but repeatedly blocked by the US & Israel.
Many, many ceasefire agreements have been put in place in the last two decades, overwhelmingly honoured by Hamas and repeatedly broken by Israel.
Despite the above two points, the conditions for Palestinians trapped in Gaza have gotten worse, and Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank are routinely killed, attacked, beaten, incarcerated and humiliated on a daily basis (which never makes it to the news until brief moments where the dead Palestinians to Israelis ratio starts to narrow, then it and only then does it become headline news - when dead P's to I's is at a ratio of around 100:1, then it's simply not newsworthy).
There couldn't be a more potent breeding ground for extremism than the conditions inflicted upon Palestinians by Israel imaginable - as intelligence and security agencies openly concede - and what we're now seeing is the natural and horrific consequence of that.
I very much doubt any kind of settlement with Hamas could ever be negotiated at this point, but we have to remember that those are choices Israel & the US made repeatedly, for decades. The idea that Hamas are *only* interested in violence simply isn't (or at least *hasn't* been) true, and their violence we should remember is comparatively tiny to that of Israel's.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m sorry but some of that just isn’t true either. Which settlement did Hamas agree to? You also seems to be ignoring a lot of the past.
I don’t doubt the US’s involvement but your post really seems to try to absolve the Arab’s and Palestinian’s responsibility in this long conflict, let alone Hamas’ responsibility.
Breaking ceasefire? In 2008 it took less than a week for Islamic jihadists to fire rockets into Israel, less than a week.
You’re stating that only one side has ever wanted a settlement and that is not Israel. This is also completely untrue mate.
It would be useful to all to remember where the word Palestine actually came from, the Romans labelled the land of Israel Syria Pallaestina centuries before Christ in a dig against the Jews.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This argument is tempered by the fact that Palestine are not the occupiers, they are the occupied. It's a bit tricky to argue that both sides are to blame IMO. Of course organisations like Hamas do things that get in the way of peace, and they are to blame for that, but there wouldn't be that scenario in the first place without the occupation, oppression and denial of human rights.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But this is the whole dispute - occupiers. Who has the right to be there? As mentioned above the name Palestine literally originated to remove the link between Jews and the land of Israel.
As has been pointed to previously - what happens in the West Bank? Where are the constant rockets, missiles between the West Bank and Israel?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
At this point of the debate why even talk about missiles in West Bank? There wouldn't be any missiles if Israel lived and let live. A dispute over rights to land does not mean that you deny Palestinians basic human rights, control their destiny, lock their borders, underfund their society and oppress them. Doing that is what leads to missiles incoming in your direction.
You're jumping the queue and going straight for the missiles part.
And the name Palestine would have never been used to sever links between Jews and Israel if the Palestinians didn't actually live there as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m sorry but if you cannot see the difference between Fatah and Hamas then I cannot help you.
Israel is Israel yet the two areas are experiencing very different situations. Why is that? Israel is still Israel, something else therefore must be different - what do you think that difference is?
The rest of your post is just pointing out the atrocities (only one sided I might add) carried over a land dispute
Palestine is an area, not a people. The reason it was created by the Romans was it was a resentful punishment against the Jews, not because there were nomadic people there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Serious question. Are you a hasbara robot?
posted on 10/10/23
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
Both sides should be criticised but some people seem to criticise Palestine more than Israeli which is ridiculous and biased IMO.
Criticising Israel more than Palestine isn't ridiculous IMO, because Israel are the occupiers and the oppressors who have created the perfect conditions, especially in Gaza, for an organisation like Hamas to exist, grow in strength and to continue subsist for all this time.
What do you think will happen when you do what they've done? Throughout history, every occupation, oppression or acute denial of rights has given rise to a violent resistance, oft branded as terrorism. It's a par for the course reaction.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could say the reverse to the first part of that.
I don’t see Israelis dancing in our streets when innocent Palestinians are killed, that’s for sure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You just don't get it. Occupation leads to violent resistance and rejoicing by the oppressed when a blow is struck. It's how it works throughout human history. The solution is not to moan about the celebrations but to address the occupation and denial of human rights. All human beings should be as free as you and me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh I do get it, thanks. What you don’t get is the occupation. For one that is disputed and two, as you are clearly ignoring, the two different ‘governments’ are receiving much different treatment from the same Israeli government. Ask yourself why that is.
I’m not trying to find a solution, I have already stated many times what needs to happen for peace to come back, as have you.
You started saying that people seem to be criticising Palestine more than Israel, I retorted by saying that I don’t see Israelis dancing in the streets and now you’re saying that I shouldn’t moan about celebrations and should address the occupations. So you can moan about people criticising Palestine more than Israel but I cannot?
🤔
posted on 10/10/23
The rest of your post is just pointing out the atrocities (only one sided I might add) carried over a land dispute
====
I've printed out that Israel are the occupiers, the oppressors, the deniers of basic human rights etc. Anything the Palestinians do is a reaction to that, whether I approve of their actions or not.
How is that one sided? It's a fact.
This really isn't complicated, you just don't want to face some facts.
posted on 10/10/23
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
Hamas isn't a legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in the way the Israeli government represents Israel. It maintains power in Gaza through coercion, through violence, and of course the Israeli blockade of Gaza keeps the population too poor and desperate to effectively organise any alternative to a ruthless paramilitary force with generous Iranian backing.
So collective punishment of 2 million Gaza residents (half of them children) for the acts of their overlords (who would have fully anticipated Israel's response) is abhorrent. Those here accepting this collective punishment as appropriate are basically endorsing Hamas logic, which saw Jews (and non-Jewish Israel residents) as fair game because of the actions of their state in killing Palestinians.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well said, it's a tough one for the Israeli government to take on the chin and do nothing though.
When a terrorist group attacked America, NATO invaded a nation.
The sheer inhumanity of the Hamas attacks probably made it difficult not to act.
I don't see how a peaceful outcome can be agreed. You can defend and condemn both sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To some people there is no excuse for Palestine to kill innocents in their decades long fight for freedom, but when it comes to Israel it's justified to do so because of Hamas actions.
Doesn't add up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both sides are at fault, it only happens that Israel are fortunate to have received support from the US & EU.
If the shoe were on the other foot it'd be no different.
posted on 10/10/23
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 9 hours, 11 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----Old Trafford record attendance.....WOLVES V GRIMSBY. .......lolz (U11551)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----Old Trafford record attendance.....WOLVES V GRIMSBY. .......lolz (U11551)
posted 51 minutes ago
Good ol' Hamas volunteering their people for mass suicide again for a war they can never ever win. But nah, Israel's fault of course.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. Clearly they're not very clever as they're just doing whatever it takes to give Israel an excuse to do what Israel has always wanted to do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Simplistic as it seems, this is exactly it. Whenever any international power asks Israel why, they have a mountain of terrorist evidence to fall back on. The flip side is if Hamas actually lobbied at international levels for a few years while not committing terrorist acts then they would gerner sympathy pretty quickly and the pressure would be on Israel.
But lets be honest, Hamas have zero interest in doing that and just want to commit terrorist acts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly this discussion is painful. People who don't know the elementary facts just firing off nonsense.
We have a documented diplomatic record. It shows two clear things; a negotiated settlement, including with Hamas, has been possible for a long, long time, but repeatedly blocked by the US & Israel.
Many, many ceasefire agreements have been put in place in the last two decades, overwhelmingly honoured by Hamas and repeatedly broken by Israel.
Despite the above two points, the conditions for Palestinians trapped in Gaza have gotten worse, and Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank are routinely killed, attacked, beaten, incarcerated and humiliated on a daily basis (which never makes it to the news until brief moments where the dead Palestinians to Israelis ratio starts to narrow, then it and only then does it become headline news - when dead P's to I's is at a ratio of around 100:1, then it's simply not newsworthy).
There couldn't be a more potent breeding ground for extremism than the conditions inflicted upon Palestinians by Israel imaginable - as intelligence and security agencies openly concede - and what we're now seeing is the natural and horrific consequence of that.
I very much doubt any kind of settlement with Hamas could ever be negotiated at this point, but we have to remember that those are choices Israel & the US made repeatedly, for decades. The idea that Hamas are *only* interested in violence simply isn't (or at least *hasn't* been) true, and their violence we should remember is comparatively tiny to that of Israel's.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m sorry but some of that just isn’t true either. Which settlement did Hamas agree to? You also seems to be ignoring a lot of the past.
I don’t doubt the US’s involvement but your post really seems to try to absolve the Arab’s and Palestinian’s responsibility in this long conflict, let alone Hamas’ responsibility.
Breaking ceasefire? In 2008 it took less than a week for Islamic jihadists to fire rockets into Israel, less than a week.
You’re stating that only one side has ever wanted a settlement and that is not Israel. This is also completely untrue mate.
It would be useful to all to remember where the word Palestine actually came from, the Romans labelled the land of Israel Syria Pallaestina centuries before Christ in a dig against the Jews.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This argument is tempered by the fact that Palestine are not the occupiers, they are the occupied. It's a bit tricky to argue that both sides are to blame IMO. Of course organisations like Hamas do things that get in the way of peace, and they are to blame for that, but there wouldn't be that scenario in the first place without the occupation, oppression and denial of human rights.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But this is the whole dispute - occupiers. Who has the right to be there? As mentioned above the name Palestine literally originated to remove the link between Jews and the land of Israel.
As has been pointed to previously - what happens in the West Bank? Where are the constant rockets, missiles between the West Bank and Israel?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
At this point of the debate why even talk about missiles in West Bank? There wouldn't be any missiles if Israel lived and let live. A dispute over rights to land does not mean that you deny Palestinians basic human rights, control their destiny, lock their borders, underfund their society and oppress them. Doing that is what leads to missiles incoming in your direction.
You're jumping the queue and going straight for the missiles part.
And the name Palestine would have never been used to sever links between Jews and Israel if the Palestinians didn't actually live there as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m sorry but if you cannot see the difference between Fatah and Hamas then I cannot help you.
Israel is Israel yet the two areas are experiencing very different situations. Why is that? Israel is still Israel, something else therefore must be different - what do you think that difference is?
The rest of your post is just pointing out the atrocities (only one sided I might add) carried over a land dispute
Palestine is an area, not a people. The reason it was created by the Romans was it was a resentful punishment against the Jews, not because there were nomadic people there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Serious question. Are you a hasbara robot?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You haven’t read most of my posts on this subject
posted on 10/10/23
Oh I do get it, thanks. What you don’t get is the occupation. For one that is disputed and two, as you are clearly ignoring, the two different ‘governments’ are receiving much different treatment from the same Israeli government. Ask yourself why that is
====
I don't ask myself that because my observation throughout history is that those oppressed that collaborate with oppressors get better treatment than those who do not collaborate. The more you uprise, the more the oppressors put you down. But even those who collaborate more than others still remain oppressed and denied basic human rights.
In the grand scheme it doesn't matter how they chose to fight back. Some will always fight harder than others, or make better decisions that others in any particular situation.
The question you should ask yourself is why are we even talking about it in the first place.
posted on 10/10/23
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
Hamas isn't a legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in the way the Israeli government represents Israel. It maintains power in Gaza through coercion, through violence, and of course the Israeli blockade of Gaza keeps the population too poor and desperate to effectively organise any alternative to a ruthless paramilitary force with generous Iranian backing.
So collective punishment of 2 million Gaza residents (half of them children) for the acts of their overlords (who would have fully anticipated Israel's response) is abhorrent. Those here accepting this collective punishment as appropriate are basically endorsing Hamas logic, which saw Jews (and non-Jewish Israel residents) as fair game because of the actions of their state in killing Palestinians.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well said, it's a tough one for the Israeli government to take on the chin and do nothing though.
When a terrorist group attacked America, NATO invaded a nation.
The sheer inhumanity of the Hamas attacks probably made it difficult not to act.
I don't see how a peaceful outcome can be agreed. You can defend and condemn both sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To some people there is no excuse for Palestine to kill innocents in their decades long fight for freedom, but when it comes to Israel it's justified to do so because of Hamas actions.
Doesn't add up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both sides are at fault, it only happens that Israel are fortunate to have received support from the US & EU.
If the shoe were on the other foot it'd be no different.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Technically you are correct, but both sides are at fault for what? It's not exactly the same thing I don't see Palestine expanding into Israel and denying Israelis basic human rights.
Israel are at fault for oppressing Palestinians whereas Palestinians are at fault for fighting back.
Makes sense.
posted on 10/10/23
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 1 minute ago
Oh I do get it, thanks. What you don’t get is the occupation. For one that is disputed and two, as you are clearly ignoring, the two different ‘governments’ are receiving much different treatment from the same Israeli government. Ask yourself why that is
====
I don't ask myself that because my observation throughout history is that those oppressed that collaborate with oppressors get better treatment than those who do not collaborate. The more you uprise, the more the oppressors put you down. But even those who collaborate more than others still remain oppressed and denied basic human rights.
In the grand scheme it doesn't matter how they chose to fight back. Some will always fight harder than others, or make better decisions that others in any particular situation.
The question you should ask yourself is why are we even talking about it in the first place.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because it’s a piece of land that has been fought over for thousands of years and both parties feel they have a legitimate claim to it.
posted on 10/10/23
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
Hamas isn't a legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in the way the Israeli government represents Israel. It maintains power in Gaza through coercion, through violence, and of course the Israeli blockade of Gaza keeps the population too poor and desperate to effectively organise any alternative to a ruthless paramilitary force with generous Iranian backing.
So collective punishment of 2 million Gaza residents (half of them children) for the acts of their overlords (who would have fully anticipated Israel's response) is abhorrent. Those here accepting this collective punishment as appropriate are basically endorsing Hamas logic, which saw Jews (and non-Jewish Israel residents) as fair game because of the actions of their state in killing Palestinians.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well said, it's a tough one for the Israeli government to take on the chin and do nothing though.
When a terrorist group attacked America, NATO invaded a nation.
The sheer inhumanity of the Hamas attacks probably made it difficult not to act.
I don't see how a peaceful outcome can be agreed. You can defend and condemn both sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To some people there is no excuse for Palestine to kill innocents in their decades long fight for freedom, but when it comes to Israel it's justified to do so because of Hamas actions.
Doesn't add up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both sides are at fault, it only happens that Israel are fortunate to have received support from the US & EU.
If the shoe were on the other foot it'd be no different.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Technically you are correct, but both sides are at fault for what? It's not exactly the same thing I don't see Palestine expanding into Israel and denying Israelis basic human rights.
Israel are at fault for oppressing Palestinians whereas Palestinians are at fault for fighting back.
Makes sense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're right about the current situation, read up on the past.
posted on 10/10/23
The western Journalists know exactly what they're doing when they conflate protests against the Israeli occupation, and attacks on civilians in Gaza, with support for Hamas. But they're confident that the rules of fair coverage don't apply to Palestinians, or the British left who stand with them.
The support for a Palestinian holocaust is unbelievable
posted on 10/10/23
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 0 seconds ago
The western Journalists know exactly what they're doing when they conflate protests against the Israeli occupation, and attacks on civilians in Gaza, with support for Hamas. But they're confident that the rules of fair coverage don't apply to Palestinians, or the British left who stand with them.
The support for a Palestinian holocaust is unbelievable
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So the people dancing in the streets over the weekend weren’t supporting what Hamas did?
Ok then
posted on 10/10/23
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
Hamas isn't a legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in the way the Israeli government represents Israel. It maintains power in Gaza through coercion, through violence, and of course the Israeli blockade of Gaza keeps the population too poor and desperate to effectively organise any alternative to a ruthless paramilitary force with generous Iranian backing.
So collective punishment of 2 million Gaza residents (half of them children) for the acts of their overlords (who would have fully anticipated Israel's response) is abhorrent. Those here accepting this collective punishment as appropriate are basically endorsing Hamas logic, which saw Jews (and non-Jewish Israel residents) as fair game because of the actions of their state in killing Palestinians.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well said, it's a tough one for the Israeli government to take on the chin and do nothing though.
When a terrorist group attacked America, NATO invaded a nation.
The sheer inhumanity of the Hamas attacks probably made it difficult not to act.
I don't see how a peaceful outcome can be agreed. You can defend and condemn both sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To some people there is no excuse for Palestine to kill innocents in their decades long fight for freedom, but when it comes to Israel it's justified to do so because of Hamas actions.
Doesn't add up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both sides are at fault, it only happens that Israel are fortunate to have received support from the US & EU.
If the shoe were on the other foot it'd be no different.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Technically you are correct, but both sides are at fault for what? It's not exactly the same thing I don't see Palestine expanding into Israel and denying Israelis basic human rights.
Israel are at fault for oppressing Palestinians whereas Palestinians are at fault for fighting back.
Makes sense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're right about the current situation, read up on the past.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, thanks l.
posted on 10/10/23
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 0 seconds ago
The western Journalists know exactly what they're doing when they conflate protests against the Israeli occupation, and attacks on civilians in Gaza, with support for Hamas. But they're confident that the rules of fair coverage don't apply to Palestinians, or the British left who stand with them.
The support for a Palestinian holocaust is unbelievable
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So the people dancing in the streets over the weekend weren’t supporting what Hamas did?
Ok then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn’t see people dancing, If they did it would have been those subjected to horrific crimes over 50 years - assume you are talking about a minute Gaza 10 people?? If not show us a link/ video.
Doesn’t justify democracies around the world in the west calling for genocide and collective punishment. Give your head a wobble
posted on 10/10/23
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 0 seconds ago
The western Journalists know exactly what they're doing when they conflate protests against the Israeli occupation, and attacks on civilians in Gaza, with support for Hamas. But they're confident that the rules of fair coverage don't apply to Palestinians, or the British left who stand with them.
The support for a Palestinian holocaust is unbelievable
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So the people dancing in the streets over the weekend weren’t supporting what Hamas did?
Ok then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn’t see people dancing, If they did it would have been those subjected to horrific crimes over 50 years - assume you are talking about a minute Gaza 10 people?? If not show us a link/ video.
Doesn’t justify democracies around the world in the west calling for genocide and collective punishment. Give your head a wobble
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Calling for genocide? And you say I should give my head a wobble?
And no it was in the UK. I’m sure a smart guy like you knows how to use Google, do it.
posted on 10/10/23
it's frightening seeing all these celebrities and elected officials giving it "we stand by israel and their right to defend themselves"
then you see dead babies.
Hamas actions were an act of terror and should never be condoned, but why is a blind eye being turned toward terror aimed at Palestinians, for decades now?
posted on 10/10/23
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 48 seconds ago
it's frightening seeing all these celebrities and elected officials giving it "we stand by israel and their right to defend themselves"
then you see dead babies.
Hamas actions were an act of terror and should never be condoned, but why is a blind eye being turned toward terror aimed at Palestinians, for decades now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dropping modern bombs is more civilized I guess.
posted on 10/10/23
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 48 seconds ago
it's frightening seeing all these celebrities and elected officials giving it "we stand by israel and their right to defend themselves"
then you see dead babies.
Hamas actions were an act of terror and should never be condoned, but why is a blind eye being turned toward terror aimed at Palestinians, for decades now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dropping modern bombs is more civilized I guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Must be ‘western values’
posted on 10/10/23
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 3 minutes ago
it's frightening seeing all these celebrities and elected officials giving it "we stand by israel and their right to defend themselves"
then you see dead babies.
Hamas actions were an act of terror and should never be condoned, but why is a blind eye being turned toward terror aimed at Palestinians, for decades now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I wish the right message was put out more. Israel needs to stop expanding Hamas needs to go and both parties get to the negotiating table
posted on 10/10/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 hours, 32 minutes ago
Hamas isn't a legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in the way the Israeli government represents Israel. It maintains power in Gaza through coercion, through violence, and of course the Israeli blockade of Gaza keeps the population too poor and desperate to effectively organise any alternative to a ruthless paramilitary force with generous Iranian backing.
So collective punishment of 2 million Gaza residents (half of them children) for the acts of their overlords (who would have fully anticipated Israel's response) is abhorrent. Those here accepting this collective punishment as appropriate are basically endorsing Hamas logic, which saw Jews (and non-Jewish Israel residents) as fair game because of the actions of their state in killing Palestinians.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wrong.
Hamas is the legitimate government of Gaza.
They won an election. Went on to liquidate the opposition party members.
Why some people like to lie openly I would never understand.
posted on 10/10/23
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 48 seconds ago
it's frightening seeing all these celebrities and elected officials giving it "we stand by israel and their right to defend themselves"
then you see dead babies.
Hamas actions were an act of terror and should never be condoned, but why is a blind eye being turned toward terror aimed at Palestinians, for decades now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dropping modern bombs is more civilized I guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Must be ‘western values’
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As opposed to what? Hiding behind civilians? Oh no, it’s the deliberate murder of civilians at a music concert and parading of their naked corpse and spitting on them whilst chanting Allahu Akbar. Yeah those values are much better.
posted on 10/10/23
Hamas won the elections in 2007 and since then lost the latest election which was done 15 years ago. Machini you are the liar here.
posted on 10/10/23
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 48 seconds ago
it's frightening seeing all these celebrities and elected officials giving it "we stand by israel and their right to defend themselves"
then you see dead babies.
Hamas actions were an act of terror and should never be condoned, but why is a blind eye being turned toward terror aimed at Palestinians, for decades now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dropping modern bombs is more civilized I guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Must be ‘western values’
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As opposed to what? Hiding behind civilians? Oh no, it’s the deliberate murder of civilians at a music concert and parading of their naked corpse and spitting on them whilst chanting Allahu Akbar. Yeah those values are much better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The videos on Twitter are only those of Israel’s killing innocent civilians and urinating on them. Your blindness and deafness is either deliberate or shows your ignorance
posted on 10/10/23
Wrong cannot right a wrong. Rights to life, homes and identity belong to everybody. Let's keep our hearts open for peace to have a place at the table. Remember the innocents who are suffering. True peace can only be built on a foundation of justice which should be equally distributed by the international community. And we all have a part to play
posted on 10/10/23
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 28 minutes ago
The western Journalists know exactly what they're doing when they conflate protests against the Israeli occupation, and attacks on civilians in Gaza, with support for Hamas. But they're confident that the rules of fair coverage don't apply to Palestinians, or the British left who stand with them.
The support for a Palestinian holocaust is unbelievable
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why not speak the truth for once. The Arabs want all Jews dead.
The Arabs don't want a Jewish state in Palestine.
When they speak about occupation, what land are they referring to?
Gaza is governed by Hamas and the West Bank is governed by Fatah.
When you mention Blockade, they never mention the Egyptian border. I wonder why.
posted on 10/10/23
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 48 seconds ago
it's frightening seeing all these celebrities and elected officials giving it "we stand by israel and their right to defend themselves"
then you see dead babies.
Hamas actions were an act of terror and should never be condoned, but why is a blind eye being turned toward terror aimed at Palestinians, for decades now?
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Dropping modern bombs is more civilized I guess.
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Must be ‘western values’
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As opposed to what? Hiding behind civilians? Oh no, it’s the deliberate murder of civilians at a music concert and parading of their naked corpse and spitting on them whilst chanting Allahu Akbar. Yeah those values are much better.
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The videos on Twitter are only those of Israel’s killing innocent civilians and urinating on them. Your blindness and deafness is either deliberate or shows your ignorance
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You’re a liar.
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