comment by Mamba the chief disinformation officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by The Mamba School of Genius (U1282)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Echo Chamber (U23154)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Echo Chamber (U23154)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
Definition of insanity: Doing the same thing repeaedetly and expecting a different result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm expecting to get banned.
That's what happens when I show you up for the idiot you are like I just did in the post above.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah you get banned because of that
Delusion and insanity are best mates. You're obviously familiar with both.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh I did.
I got my post removed and banned for calling Mamba the chief disinformation officer on ja606 and you his right hand man
You only have to look on here to see that's 100% accurate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Name change mambinator
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Almost passed me by.
This one is a good one as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Keep it in the back pocket mate.
comment by Mamba the chief disinformation officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by The Mamba School of Genius (U1282)
posted 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
comment by Echo Chamber (U23154)
posted 23 minutes ago
In 2022
- 32.2% of white people were accepted to higher education – the lowest entry rate
- 50.6 of black people were accepted into higher education
Between 2006 and 2022
- The biggest increase in the entry rate was for black people, from 21.6% to 50.6%
- The smallest increase was for white people, from 21.8% to 32.2%
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And we don’t have AA in this country so something we are doing is working. I wonder what that could be….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have AA in this country. You've complained about it's instances in the past. It's called voluntary positive action which basically everyone seems to be applying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can demonstrate that universities are doing this, yes?
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by Mamba the chief disinformation officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by The Mamba School of Genius (U1282)
posted 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
comment by Echo Chamber (U23154)
posted 23 minutes ago
In 2022
- 32.2% of white people were accepted to higher education – the lowest entry rate
- 50.6 of black people were accepted into higher education
Between 2006 and 2022
- The biggest increase in the entry rate was for black people, from 21.6% to 50.6%
- The smallest increase was for white people, from 21.8% to 32.2%
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And we don’t have AA in this country so something we are doing is working. I wonder what that could be….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have AA in this country. You've complained about it's instances in the past. It's called voluntary positive action which basically everyone seems to be applying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can demonstrate that universities are doing this, yes?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because with those kind of statistical changes in that period of time, across all state school pupils, that must be one hell of an uptake and therefore very easy to point to university policy in this regard.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Mamba the chief disinformation officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by The Mamba School of Genius (U1282)
posted 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
comment by Echo Chamber (U23154)
posted 23 minutes ago
In 2022
- 32.2% of white people were accepted to higher education – the lowest entry rate
- 50.6 of black people were accepted into higher education
Between 2006 and 2022
- The biggest increase in the entry rate was for black people, from 21.6% to 50.6%
- The smallest increase was for white people, from 21.8% to 32.2%
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And we don’t have AA in this country so something we are doing is working. I wonder what that could be….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have AA in this country. You've complained about it's instances in the past. It's called voluntary positive action which basically everyone seems to be applying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can demonstrate that universities are doing this, yes?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://nhsproviders.org/race-equality-what-works-resource/positive-action#:~:text=Positive%20action%20is%20a%20way,raise%20participation%20in%20certain%20activities.
NHS certainly use it. I'm expect it is widely used going by what I see from day to day.
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Mamba the chief disinformation officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by The Mamba School of Genius (U1282)
posted 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
comment by Echo Chamber (U23154)
posted 23 minutes ago
In 2022
- 32.2% of white people were accepted to higher education – the lowest entry rate
- 50.6 of black people were accepted into higher education
Between 2006 and 2022
- The biggest increase in the entry rate was for black people, from 21.6% to 50.6%
- The smallest increase was for white people, from 21.8% to 32.2%
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And we don’t have AA in this country so something we are doing is working. I wonder what that could be….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have AA in this country. You've complained about it's instances in the past. It's called voluntary positive action which basically everyone seems to be applying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can demonstrate that universities are doing this, yes?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://nhsproviders.org/race-equality-what-works-resource/positive-action#:~:text=Positive%20action%20is%20a%20way,raise%20participation%20in%20certain%20activities.
NHS certainly use it. I'm expect it is widely used going by what I see from day to day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah the NHS is all universities now, is it? So your answer is “no I cannot demonstrate that Satty”
Don't you people have jobs?
comment by Ali - (U1192)
posted 1 minute ago
Don't you people have jobs?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do. But I’m off with fluvid on the sofa. So I’m amusing myself.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Mamba the chief disinformation officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by The Mamba School of Genius (U1282)
posted 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
comment by Echo Chamber (U23154)
posted 23 minutes ago
In 2022
- 32.2% of white people were accepted to higher education – the lowest entry rate
- 50.6 of black people were accepted into higher education
Between 2006 and 2022
- The biggest increase in the entry rate was for black people, from 21.6% to 50.6%
- The smallest increase was for white people, from 21.8% to 32.2%
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And we don’t have AA in this country so something we are doing is working. I wonder what that could be….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have AA in this country. You've complained about it's instances in the past. It's called voluntary positive action which basically everyone seems to be applying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can demonstrate that universities are doing this, yes?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://nhsproviders.org/race-equality-what-works-resource/positive-action#:~:text=Positive%20action%20is%20a%20way,raise%20participation%20in%20certain%20activities.
NHS certainly use it. I'm expect it is widely used going by what I see from day to day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah the NHS is all universities now, is it? So your answer is “no I cannot demonstrate that Satty”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are we suddenly limiting ourselves to just universities alone? Talk about moving the goal posts.
Anyway, here you go
https://www.uwe.ac.uk/about/values-vision-strategy/equality-diversity-and-inclusivity/inclusive-culture/positive-action
Positive action is just code for affirmative action.
It's basically affirmative action but done in a complex manner so that geniuses don't understand what's going on and don't riot on the streets.
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Mamba the chief disinformation officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by The Mamba School of Genius (U1282)
posted 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
comment by Echo Chamber (U23154)
posted 23 minutes ago
In 2022
- 32.2% of white people were accepted to higher education – the lowest entry rate
- 50.6 of black people were accepted into higher education
Between 2006 and 2022
- The biggest increase in the entry rate was for black people, from 21.6% to 50.6%
- The smallest increase was for white people, from 21.8% to 32.2%
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And we don’t have AA in this country so something we are doing is working. I wonder what that could be….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have AA in this country. You've complained about it's instances in the past. It's called voluntary positive action which basically everyone seems to be applying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can demonstrate that universities are doing this, yes?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://nhsproviders.org/race-equality-what-works-resource/positive-action#:~:text=Positive%20action%20is%20a%20way,raise%20participation%20in%20certain%20activities.
NHS certainly use it. I'm expect it is widely used going by what I see from day to day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah the NHS is all universities now, is it? So your answer is “no I cannot demonstrate that Satty”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are we suddenly limiting ourselves to just universities alone? Talk about moving the goal posts.
Anyway, here you go
https://www.uwe.ac.uk/about/values-vision-strategy/equality-diversity-and-inclusivity/inclusive-culture/positive-action
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’ve talking about university admissions and AA for PAGES you nutcase- wtf are you on about? 🤣🤣🤣
And yes I saw that link and I cannot believe you actually had the balls to share one link from one university out of the entire country to ‘demonstrate’ that this policy is responsible for the notable changes in entrance to higher education across the population from 2006-2022 for ALL universities.
Cmon mate 🤣🤣🤣 if you’re busy with work, focus on work.
Browsing around, it seems that the University and Colleges Admissions Service and other similar institutions are really big on positive action.
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 45 seconds ago
Browsing around, it seems that the University and Colleges Admissions Service and other similar institutions are really big on positive action.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Show me the policy which has enabled the changes seen from 2006-2022 across all universities. Just say you can’t, if you can’t.
We’ve talking about university admissions and AA for PAGES you nutcase- wtf are you on about?
====
That's not all we've been talking about though. We were also including employment and job opportunities but now all of a sudden and out of the blue you are limiting us to universities alone.
Then you pretend we were talking about just universities alone for pages and call me a nutcase for being surprised that you want to suddenly limit the scope of the discussion.
Someone said you guys argue in bad faith and he was right.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 45 seconds ago
Browsing around, it seems that the University and Colleges Admissions Service and other similar institutions are really big on positive action.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Show me the policy which has enabled the changes seen from 2006-2022 across all universities. Just say you can’t, if you can’t.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, it's more from 2010 when the equalities act was passed, disguising AA as PA to get past the geniuses.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 45 seconds ago
Browsing around, it seems that the University and Colleges Admissions Service and other similar institutions are really big on positive action.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Show me the policy which has enabled the changes seen from 2006-2022 across all universities. Just say you can’t, if you can’t.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure what you're looking for. Can you be more special? Maybe the Equalities Act?
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 23 seconds ago
We’ve talking about university admissions and AA for PAGES you nutcase- wtf are you on about?
====
That's not all we've been talking about though. We were also including employment and job opportunities but now all of a sudden and out of the blue you are limiting us to universities alone.
Then you pretend we were talking about just universities alone for pages and call me a nutcase for being surprised that you want to suddenly limit the scope of the discussion.
Someone said you guys argue in bad faith and he was right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No no no no. We were talking about the university admission data which I supplied, you then said it was due to positive action, I asked you to demonstrate it and YOU shifted the goal posts by posting an NHS link.
It is you who is debating in bad faith, not I. If you want to discuss positive action in the workplace and its effects then we can do. In the meantime, if you could simply say that you cannot demonstrate that positive action has had such an influence on the results we can see then we can happily move on to employment.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 hours, 8 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 20 minutes ago
SatNav, you certainly provided a lot of links, as well as a recommendation that I read a book written by a renowned conservative writer, who supported Trump and is well know for his hostility to the Civil Rights movement, let alone affirmative action. What I was after was something more concrete: evidence that the effect of AA is resulting in a lack of access to elite education for Asian Americans. My point is that Asian Americans are by a substantial distance the most over-represented demographic in Ivy League universities, relative to their proportion in the country as a whole. (See the numbers here: https://blog.collegevine.com/the-demographics-of-the-ivy-league)
You contend that any kind of positive discrimination is inherently and beyond argument racist. I would counter that one really has to define racism more precisely in order to arrive at that conclusion. For you racism is quite simply making any judgement based on race. For me a more meaningful understanding of racism is a power dynamic in which the rights or opportunities of communities and the individuals within them are curbed as a result of their ethnic identity. Through this paradigm I would tend to say that Asian Americans as a community do not face the kinds of systemic barriers to advancement that black and hispanic Americans do - though there are contexts in which white privilege kicks in. I would say that there can be a broad social good in making elite institutions more representative of the demographic breakdown of a society as a whole, creating pathways for members of underrepresented communities to aspire to success and challenging stereotypes about what successful people look like. Of course, at an individual level, with a finite number of places in such institutions, that means that some people who are well qualified don't get in. But that's always the reality of elite institutions: you will always have ten times as many perfectly qualified applicants as places, and I struggle to believe that the beneficiaries of AA lack the intellectual capacity to thrive in an Ivy League environment. Every year thousands of rejected Oxbridge applicants get maximum marks in their A-levels. They're all clever enough to go to Oxbridge. If you were to test them, VAR style, to the fraction of the millimetre, perhaps you could rank them objectively and impartially. But in doing so, you might find that the cream of the crop was more disproportionately balanced toward private school kids than others - and then one faces the same question of whether they are really better, brighter, and more deserving, or whether they have been better equipped at the age of 18 to jump this particular hurdle.
It's my observation that people from less advantaged backgrounds who get to experience elite education often go on to more impressive achievements thereafter - because, even if they were objectively weaker candidates at the point of entry (having had less access to tutoring etc.) they still needed extraordinary ability to be at the front of the queue to benefit from those few opportunities based on AA or Oxbridge outreach to comprehensive schools.
Like most things, 'meritocracy' is more complex than it might seem at first glance. I don't subscribe to the idea of the undeserving poor, that working class people are inherently thicker or lazier or less talented than upper class people, nor do I believe that some ethnic groups are smarter than others. Society will never ensure that everyone has the same opportunities. But I broadly welcome its attempts to mitigate structures that lock out whole groups. So, going back to the original point about defining racism: I don't think American society is generally locking out Asian Americans or white people, which is why I dispute your contention that affirmative action is self-evidently racist in relation to them.
It certainly discriminates on the basis of class, and that affects working class students of any race. But that's perhaps another conversation, about the need to provide top level education to more people, and about the pernicious effect of having a handful of traditional universities acting a gatekeepers to establishment jobs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RR - I provided more than that. Thank you for proving that I was wasting my time, I shan’t do it again.
Of course you see racism as a power dynamic, you’ve gobbled up the usual manifestos. For me it’s quite simple really, Asian students shouldn’t have to get notably higher scores than other students due to their ethnicity. You think the form of discrimination is fine, just like Mamba does as you both read the same rubbish.
Discriminate on economic background, personal background, familial, maybe where people live - but age? No. Gender? No. Sxual orientation? No and….RACE? Guess what? Also NO.
Once you start to discriminate against protected characteristics - where does it end?
I never said that top tier education doesn’t benefit students. I mentioned that it has been posited that some may suffer, I never said it was my belief. The theory is that there’s a mismatch of levels but as I said from the very start the data is inconclusive.
As for your childish critique of Thomas Sowell as an individual and not one critique of his data nor ideas, I laugh at you. He has been looking at these issues for longer than you or I have likely been alive. He grew up in Harlem and has dedicated his entire distinguished career doing the most in-depth analysis of many of these socioeconomic race/related topics and what do you have to say? Trump supporter? Relevance? Just to try and point score with the locals? Again Conservative? Relevance? Do you expect a blue haired liberal professor from Berkeley to be making these points against AA? Good lord man, who do you think you’re kidding? Go and look at his data if you’re that bothered (which I don’t think you are) and then you can talk properly about what has been posited and leave your nonsense identity politics at the front door, thanks. ‘Wah he cannot possibly be correct because he’s a conservative wah, I’ve never read a single article nor book of his but he just cannot be right as he voted for Trump waaaaah’. Yes, that’s how you come across when you simply attack the author but not his ideas. Funny how you probably agree with a lot from the most famous of manifestos but those authors were as racist as it gets. N word this n word that.
You asked where AA harms students and I gave you data relating mostly to Asian students whom have to receive normally higher scores than other ethnicities; they’re harmed. Simple. You simply say well there are enough Asians already at top tier universities so they’re fine. I look at things from an individual level. People like you & Mamba look at things from an identity group perspective ‘sorry Jonny your group is doing so well that you’re not getting into Yale’. Again, identity politics -lovely stuff.
“I would tend to say that Asian Americans as a community do not face the kinds of systemic barriers to advancement that black and hispanic Americans do“ -
do you have an explanation as to why you think this is? Where is your data? Asians don’t face racism? Asians weren’t the poorest of all in the US a generation or so ago? They just magically appeared in the prosperous suburbs as lawyers and doctors with their children?
“Society will never ensure that everyone has the same opportunities.“
They can and will by race but not if people follow your & Mamba’s manifesto, that’s for sure.
“You contend that any kind of positive discrimination is inherently and beyond argument racist.“
Any discrimination based on race is racist, yes. Again, only a messed up intellectual could try to argue differently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SatNav, you're right that we're wasting our time. I'm quite struck by your acrimonious tone though. I tried to explain quite calmly the reasoning behind my views, and also to indicate that I recognise that your position is intellectually coherent, although I disagree with it.
As for ‘Wah he cannot possibly be correct because he’s a conservative wah, I’ve never read a single article nor book of his but he just cannot be right as he voted for Trump waaaaah’ - perhaps if you weren't quite so emotionally invested in this, you'd have seen that I wasn't arguing 'he's wrong because he's conservative' but saying this isn't 'evidence' let alone 'data' that proves your point, in request for which you shared the suggestion that I read him, but merely a well known conservative writer articulating conservative arguments against AA, with which we are all familiar. And I think it's relevant to point out that the source you are citing is not an impartial social scientist, but a mouthpiece for a particular, hardline conservative tendency within American political thought, which has always been sceptical of using the state to combat racism. Again, that doesn't make it right or wrong, but it is reasonable to point out that it is one stream among several in political thought, and I'm afraid your framing of it as inherently and self-evidently right, and other positions as freakish aberrations betrays a shallowness of knowledge of the tenets of liberalism (by which I mean the mainstream Anglo-French intellectual tradition that goes back centuries, not the modern American sense of the word).
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 45 seconds ago
Browsing around, it seems that the University and Colleges Admissions Service and other similar institutions are really big on positive action.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Show me the policy which has enabled the changes seen from 2006-2022 across all universities. Just say you can’t, if you can’t.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure what you're looking for. Can you be more special? Maybe the Equalities Act?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did the equalities act 2010 put quotas in place if so when did it do that? What specific part of the equalities act relates to universities and positive action?
And yes I saw that link and I cannot believe you actually had the balls to share one link from one university out of the entire country to ‘demonstrate’ that this policy is responsible for the notable changes in entrance to higher education across the population from 2006-2022 for ALL universities.
=====
You want me to go to individual university pages to provide you with info?
You're asking for the impossible and then thinking you've scored a point because I can't provide it.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 hours, 8 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 20 minutes ago
SatNav, you certainly provided a lot of links, as well as a recommendation that I read a book written by a renowned conservative writer, who supported Trump and is well know for his hostility to the Civil Rights movement, let alone affirmative action. What I was after was something more concrete: evidence that the effect of AA is resulting in a lack of access to elite education for Asian Americans. My point is that Asian Americans are by a substantial distance the most over-represented demographic in Ivy League universities, relative to their proportion in the country as a whole. (See the numbers here: https://blog.collegevine.com/the-demographics-of-the-ivy-league)
You contend that any kind of positive discrimination is inherently and beyond argument racist. I would counter that one really has to define racism more precisely in order to arrive at that conclusion. For you racism is quite simply making any judgement based on race. For me a more meaningful understanding of racism is a power dynamic in which the rights or opportunities of communities and the individuals within them are curbed as a result of their ethnic identity. Through this paradigm I would tend to say that Asian Americans as a community do not face the kinds of systemic barriers to advancement that black and hispanic Americans do - though there are contexts in which white privilege kicks in. I would say that there can be a broad social good in making elite institutions more representative of the demographic breakdown of a society as a whole, creating pathways for members of underrepresented communities to aspire to success and challenging stereotypes about what successful people look like. Of course, at an individual level, with a finite number of places in such institutions, that means that some people who are well qualified don't get in. But that's always the reality of elite institutions: you will always have ten times as many perfectly qualified applicants as places, and I struggle to believe that the beneficiaries of AA lack the intellectual capacity to thrive in an Ivy League environment. Every year thousands of rejected Oxbridge applicants get maximum marks in their A-levels. They're all clever enough to go to Oxbridge. If you were to test them, VAR style, to the fraction of the millimetre, perhaps you could rank them objectively and impartially. But in doing so, you might find that the cream of the crop was more disproportionately balanced toward private school kids than others - and then one faces the same question of whether they are really better, brighter, and more deserving, or whether they have been better equipped at the age of 18 to jump this particular hurdle.
It's my observation that people from less advantaged backgrounds who get to experience elite education often go on to more impressive achievements thereafter - because, even if they were objectively weaker candidates at the point of entry (having had less access to tutoring etc.) they still needed extraordinary ability to be at the front of the queue to benefit from those few opportunities based on AA or Oxbridge outreach to comprehensive schools.
Like most things, 'meritocracy' is more complex than it might seem at first glance. I don't subscribe to the idea of the undeserving poor, that working class people are inherently thicker or lazier or less talented than upper class people, nor do I believe that some ethnic groups are smarter than others. Society will never ensure that everyone has the same opportunities. But I broadly welcome its attempts to mitigate structures that lock out whole groups. So, going back to the original point about defining racism: I don't think American society is generally locking out Asian Americans or white people, which is why I dispute your contention that affirmative action is self-evidently racist in relation to them.
It certainly discriminates on the basis of class, and that affects working class students of any race. But that's perhaps another conversation, about the need to provide top level education to more people, and about the pernicious effect of having a handful of traditional universities acting a gatekeepers to establishment jobs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RR - I provided more than that. Thank you for proving that I was wasting my time, I shan’t do it again.
Of course you see racism as a power dynamic, you’ve gobbled up the usual manifestos. For me it’s quite simple really, Asian students shouldn’t have to get notably higher scores than other students due to their ethnicity. You think the form of discrimination is fine, just like Mamba does as you both read the same rubbish.
Discriminate on economic background, personal background, familial, maybe where people live - but age? No. Gender? No. Sxual orientation? No and….RACE? Guess what? Also NO.
Once you start to discriminate against protected characteristics - where does it end?
I never said that top tier education doesn’t benefit students. I mentioned that it has been posited that some may suffer, I never said it was my belief. The theory is that there’s a mismatch of levels but as I said from the very start the data is inconclusive.
As for your childish critique of Thomas Sowell as an individual and not one critique of his data nor ideas, I laugh at you. He has been looking at these issues for longer than you or I have likely been alive. He grew up in Harlem and has dedicated his entire distinguished career doing the most in-depth analysis of many of these socioeconomic race/related topics and what do you have to say? Trump supporter? Relevance? Just to try and point score with the locals? Again Conservative? Relevance? Do you expect a blue haired liberal professor from Berkeley to be making these points against AA? Good lord man, who do you think you’re kidding? Go and look at his data if you’re that bothered (which I don’t think you are) and then you can talk properly about what has been posited and leave your nonsense identity politics at the front door, thanks. ‘Wah he cannot possibly be correct because he’s a conservative wah, I’ve never read a single article nor book of his but he just cannot be right as he voted for Trump waaaaah’. Yes, that’s how you come across when you simply attack the author but not his ideas. Funny how you probably agree with a lot from the most famous of manifestos but those authors were as racist as it gets. N word this n word that.
You asked where AA harms students and I gave you data relating mostly to Asian students whom have to receive normally higher scores than other ethnicities; they’re harmed. Simple. You simply say well there are enough Asians already at top tier universities so they’re fine. I look at things from an individual level. People like you & Mamba look at things from an identity group perspective ‘sorry Jonny your group is doing so well that you’re not getting into Yale’. Again, identity politics -lovely stuff.
“I would tend to say that Asian Americans as a community do not face the kinds of systemic barriers to advancement that black and hispanic Americans do“ -
do you have an explanation as to why you think this is? Where is your data? Asians don’t face racism? Asians weren’t the poorest of all in the US a generation or so ago? They just magically appeared in the prosperous suburbs as lawyers and doctors with their children?
“Society will never ensure that everyone has the same opportunities.“
They can and will by race but not if people follow your & Mamba’s manifesto, that’s for sure.
“You contend that any kind of positive discrimination is inherently and beyond argument racist.“
Any discrimination based on race is racist, yes. Again, only a messed up intellectual could try to argue differently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SatNav, you're right that we're wasting our time. I'm quite struck by your acrimonious tone though. I tried to explain quite calmly the reasoning behind my views, and also to indicate that I recognise that your position is intellectually coherent, although I disagree with it.
As for ‘Wah he cannot possibly be correct because he’s a conservative wah, I’ve never read a single article nor book of his but he just cannot be right as he voted for Trump waaaaah’ - perhaps if you weren't quite so emotionally invested in this, you'd have seen that I wasn't arguing 'he's wrong because he's conservative' but saying this isn't 'evidence' let alone 'data' that proves your point, in request for which you shared the suggestion that I read him, but merely a well known conservative writer articulating conservative arguments against AA, with which we are all familiar. And I think it's relevant to point out that the source you are citing is not an impartial social scientist, but a mouthpiece for a particular, hardline conservative tendency within American political thought, which has always been sceptical of using the state to combat racism. Again, that doesn't make it right or wrong, but it is reasonable to point out that it is one stream among several in political thought, and I'm afraid your framing of it as inherently and self-evidently right, and other positions as freakish aberrations betrays a shallowness of knowledge of the tenets of liberalism (by which I mean the mainstream Anglo-French intellectual tradition that goes back centuries, not the modern American sense of the word).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why mention Trump then RR? Why on earth was that relevant? Here’s a clue, it wasn’t and it exposed you badly. Go and read his work, his books - then you can criticise him.
As for my tone, I don’t like my time being wasted. You asked for data, I gave you articles you repeated that you asked for data. So I gave you data only then later for you to refuse to acknowledge it. Sorry but I cba with that level of bullsheet.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 45 seconds ago
Browsing around, it seems that the University and Colleges Admissions Service and other similar institutions are really big on positive action.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Show me the policy which has enabled the changes seen from 2006-2022 across all universities. Just say you can’t, if you can’t.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure what you're looking for. Can you be more special? Maybe the Equalities Act?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did the equalities act 2010 put quotas in place if so when did it do that? What specific part of the equalities act relates to universities and positive action?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Positive action is a permissive power under the UK's Equality Act 2010 enabling employers and other institutions to lawfully target employment and admission initiatives to disadvantaged or under-represented groups.
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 1 minute ago
And yes I saw that link and I cannot believe you actually had the balls to share one link from one university out of the entire country to ‘demonstrate’ that this policy is responsible for the notable changes in entrance to higher education across the population from 2006-2022 for ALL universities.
=====
You want me to go to individual university pages to provide you with info?
You're asking for the impossible and then thinking you've scored a point because I can't provide it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If it respnsible for so much change, it shouldn’t be hard for you to find positive action uk universities. Go go go
And we don't like out time wasted.
Going by what you've said so far you should be appalled by positive action as well.
Tell us how positive action is racist or can be used in a racist manner please.
Fecking genius.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 hours, 8 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 20 minutes ago
SatNav, you certainly provided a lot of links, as well as a recommendation that I read a book written by a renowned conservative writer, who supported Trump and is well know for his hostility to the Civil Rights movement, let alone affirmative action. What I was after was something more concrete: evidence that the effect of AA is resulting in a lack of access to elite education for Asian Americans. My point is that Asian Americans are by a substantial distance the most over-represented demographic in Ivy League universities, relative to their proportion in the country as a whole. (See the numbers here: https://blog.collegevine.com/the-demographics-of-the-ivy-league)
You contend that any kind of positive discrimination is inherently and beyond argument racist. I would counter that one really has to define racism more precisely in order to arrive at that conclusion. For you racism is quite simply making any judgement based on race. For me a more meaningful understanding of racism is a power dynamic in which the rights or opportunities of communities and the individuals within them are curbed as a result of their ethnic identity. Through this paradigm I would tend to say that Asian Americans as a community do not face the kinds of systemic barriers to advancement that black and hispanic Americans do - though there are contexts in which white privilege kicks in. I would say that there can be a broad social good in making elite institutions more representative of the demographic breakdown of a society as a whole, creating pathways for members of underrepresented communities to aspire to success and challenging stereotypes about what successful people look like. Of course, at an individual level, with a finite number of places in such institutions, that means that some people who are well qualified don't get in. But that's always the reality of elite institutions: you will always have ten times as many perfectly qualified applicants as places, and I struggle to believe that the beneficiaries of AA lack the intellectual capacity to thrive in an Ivy League environment. Every year thousands of rejected Oxbridge applicants get maximum marks in their A-levels. They're all clever enough to go to Oxbridge. If you were to test them, VAR style, to the fraction of the millimetre, perhaps you could rank them objectively and impartially. But in doing so, you might find that the cream of the crop was more disproportionately balanced toward private school kids than others - and then one faces the same question of whether they are really better, brighter, and more deserving, or whether they have been better equipped at the age of 18 to jump this particular hurdle.
It's my observation that people from less advantaged backgrounds who get to experience elite education often go on to more impressive achievements thereafter - because, even if they were objectively weaker candidates at the point of entry (having had less access to tutoring etc.) they still needed extraordinary ability to be at the front of the queue to benefit from those few opportunities based on AA or Oxbridge outreach to comprehensive schools.
Like most things, 'meritocracy' is more complex than it might seem at first glance. I don't subscribe to the idea of the undeserving poor, that working class people are inherently thicker or lazier or less talented than upper class people, nor do I believe that some ethnic groups are smarter than others. Society will never ensure that everyone has the same opportunities. But I broadly welcome its attempts to mitigate structures that lock out whole groups. So, going back to the original point about defining racism: I don't think American society is generally locking out Asian Americans or white people, which is why I dispute your contention that affirmative action is self-evidently racist in relation to them.
It certainly discriminates on the basis of class, and that affects working class students of any race. But that's perhaps another conversation, about the need to provide top level education to more people, and about the pernicious effect of having a handful of traditional universities acting a gatekeepers to establishment jobs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RR - I provided more than that. Thank you for proving that I was wasting my time, I shan’t do it again.
Of course you see racism as a power dynamic, you’ve gobbled up the usual manifestos. For me it’s quite simple really, Asian students shouldn’t have to get notably higher scores than other students due to their ethnicity. You think the form of discrimination is fine, just like Mamba does as you both read the same rubbish.
Discriminate on economic background, personal background, familial, maybe where people live - but age? No. Gender? No. Sxual orientation? No and….RACE? Guess what? Also NO.
Once you start to discriminate against protected characteristics - where does it end?
I never said that top tier education doesn’t benefit students. I mentioned that it has been posited that some may suffer, I never said it was my belief. The theory is that there’s a mismatch of levels but as I said from the very start the data is inconclusive.
As for your childish critique of Thomas Sowell as an individual and not one critique of his data nor ideas, I laugh at you. He has been looking at these issues for longer than you or I have likely been alive. He grew up in Harlem and has dedicated his entire distinguished career doing the most in-depth analysis of many of these socioeconomic race/related topics and what do you have to say? Trump supporter? Relevance? Just to try and point score with the locals? Again Conservative? Relevance? Do you expect a blue haired liberal professor from Berkeley to be making these points against AA? Good lord man, who do you think you’re kidding? Go and look at his data if you’re that bothered (which I don’t think you are) and then you can talk properly about what has been posited and leave your nonsense identity politics at the front door, thanks. ‘Wah he cannot possibly be correct because he’s a conservative wah, I’ve never read a single article nor book of his but he just cannot be right as he voted for Trump waaaaah’. Yes, that’s how you come across when you simply attack the author but not his ideas. Funny how you probably agree with a lot from the most famous of manifestos but those authors were as racist as it gets. N word this n word that.
You asked where AA harms students and I gave you data relating mostly to Asian students whom have to receive normally higher scores than other ethnicities; they’re harmed. Simple. You simply say well there are enough Asians already at top tier universities so they’re fine. I look at things from an individual level. People like you & Mamba look at things from an identity group perspective ‘sorry Jonny your group is doing so well that you’re not getting into Yale’. Again, identity politics -lovely stuff.
“I would tend to say that Asian Americans as a community do not face the kinds of systemic barriers to advancement that black and hispanic Americans do“ -
do you have an explanation as to why you think this is? Where is your data? Asians don’t face racism? Asians weren’t the poorest of all in the US a generation or so ago? They just magically appeared in the prosperous suburbs as lawyers and doctors with their children?
“Society will never ensure that everyone has the same opportunities.“
They can and will by race but not if people follow your & Mamba’s manifesto, that’s for sure.
“You contend that any kind of positive discrimination is inherently and beyond argument racist.“
Any discrimination based on race is racist, yes. Again, only a messed up intellectual could try to argue differently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SatNav, you're right that we're wasting our time. I'm quite struck by your acrimonious tone though. I tried to explain quite calmly the reasoning behind my views, and also to indicate that I recognise that your position is intellectually coherent, although I disagree with it.
As for ‘Wah he cannot possibly be correct because he’s a conservative wah, I’ve never read a single article nor book of his but he just cannot be right as he voted for Trump waaaaah’ - perhaps if you weren't quite so emotionally invested in this, you'd have seen that I wasn't arguing 'he's wrong because he's conservative' but saying this isn't 'evidence' let alone 'data' that proves your point, in request for which you shared the suggestion that I read him, but merely a well known conservative writer articulating conservative arguments against AA, with which we are all familiar. And I think it's relevant to point out that the source you are citing is not an impartial social scientist, but a mouthpiece for a particular, hardline conservative tendency within American political thought, which has always been sceptical of using the state to combat racism. Again, that doesn't make it right or wrong, but it is reasonable to point out that it is one stream among several in political thought, and I'm afraid your framing of it as inherently and self-evidently right, and other positions as freakish aberrations betrays a shallowness of knowledge of the tenets of liberalism (by which I mean the mainstream Anglo-French intellectual tradition that goes back centuries, not the modern American sense of the word).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why mention Trump then RR? Why on earth was that relevant? Here’s a clue, it wasn’t and it exposed you badly. Go and read his work, his books - then you can criticise him.
As for my tone, I don’t like my time being wasted. You asked for data, I gave you articles you repeated that you asked for data. So I gave you data only then later for you to refuse to acknowledge it. Sorry but I cba with that level of bullsheet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And if you want more data, again read his book(s). He’s lived his entire adult life dedicated to this.
Trump voter roflmao
Sign in if you want to comment
Racist task force
Page 13 of 17
13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17
posted on 14/3/24
comment by Mamba the chief disinformation officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by The Mamba School of Genius (U1282)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Echo Chamber (U23154)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Echo Chamber (U23154)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
Definition of insanity: Doing the same thing repeaedetly and expecting a different result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm expecting to get banned.
That's what happens when I show you up for the idiot you are like I just did in the post above.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah you get banned because of that
Delusion and insanity are best mates. You're obviously familiar with both.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh I did.
I got my post removed and banned for calling Mamba the chief disinformation officer on ja606 and you his right hand man
You only have to look on here to see that's 100% accurate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Name change mambinator
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Almost passed me by.
This one is a good one as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Keep it in the back pocket mate.
posted on 14/3/24
comment by Mamba the chief disinformation officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by The Mamba School of Genius (U1282)
posted 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
comment by Echo Chamber (U23154)
posted 23 minutes ago
In 2022
- 32.2% of white people were accepted to higher education – the lowest entry rate
- 50.6 of black people were accepted into higher education
Between 2006 and 2022
- The biggest increase in the entry rate was for black people, from 21.6% to 50.6%
- The smallest increase was for white people, from 21.8% to 32.2%
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And we don’t have AA in this country so something we are doing is working. I wonder what that could be….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have AA in this country. You've complained about it's instances in the past. It's called voluntary positive action which basically everyone seems to be applying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can demonstrate that universities are doing this, yes?
posted on 14/3/24
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by Mamba the chief disinformation officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by The Mamba School of Genius (U1282)
posted 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
comment by Echo Chamber (U23154)
posted 23 minutes ago
In 2022
- 32.2% of white people were accepted to higher education – the lowest entry rate
- 50.6 of black people were accepted into higher education
Between 2006 and 2022
- The biggest increase in the entry rate was for black people, from 21.6% to 50.6%
- The smallest increase was for white people, from 21.8% to 32.2%
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And we don’t have AA in this country so something we are doing is working. I wonder what that could be….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have AA in this country. You've complained about it's instances in the past. It's called voluntary positive action which basically everyone seems to be applying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can demonstrate that universities are doing this, yes?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because with those kind of statistical changes in that period of time, across all state school pupils, that must be one hell of an uptake and therefore very easy to point to university policy in this regard.
posted on 14/3/24
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Mamba the chief disinformation officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by The Mamba School of Genius (U1282)
posted 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
comment by Echo Chamber (U23154)
posted 23 minutes ago
In 2022
- 32.2% of white people were accepted to higher education – the lowest entry rate
- 50.6 of black people were accepted into higher education
Between 2006 and 2022
- The biggest increase in the entry rate was for black people, from 21.6% to 50.6%
- The smallest increase was for white people, from 21.8% to 32.2%
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And we don’t have AA in this country so something we are doing is working. I wonder what that could be….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have AA in this country. You've complained about it's instances in the past. It's called voluntary positive action which basically everyone seems to be applying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can demonstrate that universities are doing this, yes?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://nhsproviders.org/race-equality-what-works-resource/positive-action#:~:text=Positive%20action%20is%20a%20way,raise%20participation%20in%20certain%20activities.
NHS certainly use it. I'm expect it is widely used going by what I see from day to day.
posted on 14/3/24
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Mamba the chief disinformation officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by The Mamba School of Genius (U1282)
posted 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
comment by Echo Chamber (U23154)
posted 23 minutes ago
In 2022
- 32.2% of white people were accepted to higher education – the lowest entry rate
- 50.6 of black people were accepted into higher education
Between 2006 and 2022
- The biggest increase in the entry rate was for black people, from 21.6% to 50.6%
- The smallest increase was for white people, from 21.8% to 32.2%
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And we don’t have AA in this country so something we are doing is working. I wonder what that could be….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have AA in this country. You've complained about it's instances in the past. It's called voluntary positive action which basically everyone seems to be applying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can demonstrate that universities are doing this, yes?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://nhsproviders.org/race-equality-what-works-resource/positive-action#:~:text=Positive%20action%20is%20a%20way,raise%20participation%20in%20certain%20activities.
NHS certainly use it. I'm expect it is widely used going by what I see from day to day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah the NHS is all universities now, is it? So your answer is “no I cannot demonstrate that Satty”
posted on 14/3/24
Don't you people have jobs?
posted on 14/3/24
comment by Ali - (U1192)
posted 1 minute ago
Don't you people have jobs?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do. But I’m off with fluvid on the sofa. So I’m amusing myself.
posted on 14/3/24
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Mamba the chief disinformation officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by The Mamba School of Genius (U1282)
posted 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
comment by Echo Chamber (U23154)
posted 23 minutes ago
In 2022
- 32.2% of white people were accepted to higher education – the lowest entry rate
- 50.6 of black people were accepted into higher education
Between 2006 and 2022
- The biggest increase in the entry rate was for black people, from 21.6% to 50.6%
- The smallest increase was for white people, from 21.8% to 32.2%
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And we don’t have AA in this country so something we are doing is working. I wonder what that could be….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have AA in this country. You've complained about it's instances in the past. It's called voluntary positive action which basically everyone seems to be applying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can demonstrate that universities are doing this, yes?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://nhsproviders.org/race-equality-what-works-resource/positive-action#:~:text=Positive%20action%20is%20a%20way,raise%20participation%20in%20certain%20activities.
NHS certainly use it. I'm expect it is widely used going by what I see from day to day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah the NHS is all universities now, is it? So your answer is “no I cannot demonstrate that Satty”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are we suddenly limiting ourselves to just universities alone? Talk about moving the goal posts.
Anyway, here you go
https://www.uwe.ac.uk/about/values-vision-strategy/equality-diversity-and-inclusivity/inclusive-culture/positive-action
posted on 14/3/24
Positive action is just code for affirmative action.
It's basically affirmative action but done in a complex manner so that geniuses don't understand what's going on and don't riot on the streets.
posted on 14/3/24
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Mamba the chief disinformation officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by The Mamba School of Genius (U1282)
posted 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
comment by Echo Chamber (U23154)
posted 23 minutes ago
In 2022
- 32.2% of white people were accepted to higher education – the lowest entry rate
- 50.6 of black people were accepted into higher education
Between 2006 and 2022
- The biggest increase in the entry rate was for black people, from 21.6% to 50.6%
- The smallest increase was for white people, from 21.8% to 32.2%
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And we don’t have AA in this country so something we are doing is working. I wonder what that could be….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have AA in this country. You've complained about it's instances in the past. It's called voluntary positive action which basically everyone seems to be applying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can demonstrate that universities are doing this, yes?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://nhsproviders.org/race-equality-what-works-resource/positive-action#:~:text=Positive%20action%20is%20a%20way,raise%20participation%20in%20certain%20activities.
NHS certainly use it. I'm expect it is widely used going by what I see from day to day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah the NHS is all universities now, is it? So your answer is “no I cannot demonstrate that Satty”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are we suddenly limiting ourselves to just universities alone? Talk about moving the goal posts.
Anyway, here you go
https://www.uwe.ac.uk/about/values-vision-strategy/equality-diversity-and-inclusivity/inclusive-culture/positive-action
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’ve talking about university admissions and AA for PAGES you nutcase- wtf are you on about? 🤣🤣🤣
And yes I saw that link and I cannot believe you actually had the balls to share one link from one university out of the entire country to ‘demonstrate’ that this policy is responsible for the notable changes in entrance to higher education across the population from 2006-2022 for ALL universities.
Cmon mate 🤣🤣🤣 if you’re busy with work, focus on work.
posted on 14/3/24
Browsing around, it seems that the University and Colleges Admissions Service and other similar institutions are really big on positive action.
posted on 14/3/24
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 45 seconds ago
Browsing around, it seems that the University and Colleges Admissions Service and other similar institutions are really big on positive action.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Show me the policy which has enabled the changes seen from 2006-2022 across all universities. Just say you can’t, if you can’t.
posted on 14/3/24
Bristol uni 🤣🤣🤣🤣
posted on 14/3/24
We’ve talking about university admissions and AA for PAGES you nutcase- wtf are you on about?
====
That's not all we've been talking about though. We were also including employment and job opportunities but now all of a sudden and out of the blue you are limiting us to universities alone.
Then you pretend we were talking about just universities alone for pages and call me a nutcase for being surprised that you want to suddenly limit the scope of the discussion.
Someone said you guys argue in bad faith and he was right.
posted on 14/3/24
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 45 seconds ago
Browsing around, it seems that the University and Colleges Admissions Service and other similar institutions are really big on positive action.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Show me the policy which has enabled the changes seen from 2006-2022 across all universities. Just say you can’t, if you can’t.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, it's more from 2010 when the equalities act was passed, disguising AA as PA to get past the geniuses.
posted on 14/3/24
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 45 seconds ago
Browsing around, it seems that the University and Colleges Admissions Service and other similar institutions are really big on positive action.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Show me the policy which has enabled the changes seen from 2006-2022 across all universities. Just say you can’t, if you can’t.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure what you're looking for. Can you be more special? Maybe the Equalities Act?
posted on 14/3/24
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 23 seconds ago
We’ve talking about university admissions and AA for PAGES you nutcase- wtf are you on about?
====
That's not all we've been talking about though. We were also including employment and job opportunities but now all of a sudden and out of the blue you are limiting us to universities alone.
Then you pretend we were talking about just universities alone for pages and call me a nutcase for being surprised that you want to suddenly limit the scope of the discussion.
Someone said you guys argue in bad faith and he was right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No no no no. We were talking about the university admission data which I supplied, you then said it was due to positive action, I asked you to demonstrate it and YOU shifted the goal posts by posting an NHS link.
It is you who is debating in bad faith, not I. If you want to discuss positive action in the workplace and its effects then we can do. In the meantime, if you could simply say that you cannot demonstrate that positive action has had such an influence on the results we can see then we can happily move on to employment.
posted on 14/3/24
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 hours, 8 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 20 minutes ago
SatNav, you certainly provided a lot of links, as well as a recommendation that I read a book written by a renowned conservative writer, who supported Trump and is well know for his hostility to the Civil Rights movement, let alone affirmative action. What I was after was something more concrete: evidence that the effect of AA is resulting in a lack of access to elite education for Asian Americans. My point is that Asian Americans are by a substantial distance the most over-represented demographic in Ivy League universities, relative to their proportion in the country as a whole. (See the numbers here: https://blog.collegevine.com/the-demographics-of-the-ivy-league)
You contend that any kind of positive discrimination is inherently and beyond argument racist. I would counter that one really has to define racism more precisely in order to arrive at that conclusion. For you racism is quite simply making any judgement based on race. For me a more meaningful understanding of racism is a power dynamic in which the rights or opportunities of communities and the individuals within them are curbed as a result of their ethnic identity. Through this paradigm I would tend to say that Asian Americans as a community do not face the kinds of systemic barriers to advancement that black and hispanic Americans do - though there are contexts in which white privilege kicks in. I would say that there can be a broad social good in making elite institutions more representative of the demographic breakdown of a society as a whole, creating pathways for members of underrepresented communities to aspire to success and challenging stereotypes about what successful people look like. Of course, at an individual level, with a finite number of places in such institutions, that means that some people who are well qualified don't get in. But that's always the reality of elite institutions: you will always have ten times as many perfectly qualified applicants as places, and I struggle to believe that the beneficiaries of AA lack the intellectual capacity to thrive in an Ivy League environment. Every year thousands of rejected Oxbridge applicants get maximum marks in their A-levels. They're all clever enough to go to Oxbridge. If you were to test them, VAR style, to the fraction of the millimetre, perhaps you could rank them objectively and impartially. But in doing so, you might find that the cream of the crop was more disproportionately balanced toward private school kids than others - and then one faces the same question of whether they are really better, brighter, and more deserving, or whether they have been better equipped at the age of 18 to jump this particular hurdle.
It's my observation that people from less advantaged backgrounds who get to experience elite education often go on to more impressive achievements thereafter - because, even if they were objectively weaker candidates at the point of entry (having had less access to tutoring etc.) they still needed extraordinary ability to be at the front of the queue to benefit from those few opportunities based on AA or Oxbridge outreach to comprehensive schools.
Like most things, 'meritocracy' is more complex than it might seem at first glance. I don't subscribe to the idea of the undeserving poor, that working class people are inherently thicker or lazier or less talented than upper class people, nor do I believe that some ethnic groups are smarter than others. Society will never ensure that everyone has the same opportunities. But I broadly welcome its attempts to mitigate structures that lock out whole groups. So, going back to the original point about defining racism: I don't think American society is generally locking out Asian Americans or white people, which is why I dispute your contention that affirmative action is self-evidently racist in relation to them.
It certainly discriminates on the basis of class, and that affects working class students of any race. But that's perhaps another conversation, about the need to provide top level education to more people, and about the pernicious effect of having a handful of traditional universities acting a gatekeepers to establishment jobs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RR - I provided more than that. Thank you for proving that I was wasting my time, I shan’t do it again.
Of course you see racism as a power dynamic, you’ve gobbled up the usual manifestos. For me it’s quite simple really, Asian students shouldn’t have to get notably higher scores than other students due to their ethnicity. You think the form of discrimination is fine, just like Mamba does as you both read the same rubbish.
Discriminate on economic background, personal background, familial, maybe where people live - but age? No. Gender? No. Sxual orientation? No and….RACE? Guess what? Also NO.
Once you start to discriminate against protected characteristics - where does it end?
I never said that top tier education doesn’t benefit students. I mentioned that it has been posited that some may suffer, I never said it was my belief. The theory is that there’s a mismatch of levels but as I said from the very start the data is inconclusive.
As for your childish critique of Thomas Sowell as an individual and not one critique of his data nor ideas, I laugh at you. He has been looking at these issues for longer than you or I have likely been alive. He grew up in Harlem and has dedicated his entire distinguished career doing the most in-depth analysis of many of these socioeconomic race/related topics and what do you have to say? Trump supporter? Relevance? Just to try and point score with the locals? Again Conservative? Relevance? Do you expect a blue haired liberal professor from Berkeley to be making these points against AA? Good lord man, who do you think you’re kidding? Go and look at his data if you’re that bothered (which I don’t think you are) and then you can talk properly about what has been posited and leave your nonsense identity politics at the front door, thanks. ‘Wah he cannot possibly be correct because he’s a conservative wah, I’ve never read a single article nor book of his but he just cannot be right as he voted for Trump waaaaah’. Yes, that’s how you come across when you simply attack the author but not his ideas. Funny how you probably agree with a lot from the most famous of manifestos but those authors were as racist as it gets. N word this n word that.
You asked where AA harms students and I gave you data relating mostly to Asian students whom have to receive normally higher scores than other ethnicities; they’re harmed. Simple. You simply say well there are enough Asians already at top tier universities so they’re fine. I look at things from an individual level. People like you & Mamba look at things from an identity group perspective ‘sorry Jonny your group is doing so well that you’re not getting into Yale’. Again, identity politics -lovely stuff.
“I would tend to say that Asian Americans as a community do not face the kinds of systemic barriers to advancement that black and hispanic Americans do“ -
do you have an explanation as to why you think this is? Where is your data? Asians don’t face racism? Asians weren’t the poorest of all in the US a generation or so ago? They just magically appeared in the prosperous suburbs as lawyers and doctors with their children?
“Society will never ensure that everyone has the same opportunities.“
They can and will by race but not if people follow your & Mamba’s manifesto, that’s for sure.
“You contend that any kind of positive discrimination is inherently and beyond argument racist.“
Any discrimination based on race is racist, yes. Again, only a messed up intellectual could try to argue differently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SatNav, you're right that we're wasting our time. I'm quite struck by your acrimonious tone though. I tried to explain quite calmly the reasoning behind my views, and also to indicate that I recognise that your position is intellectually coherent, although I disagree with it.
As for ‘Wah he cannot possibly be correct because he’s a conservative wah, I’ve never read a single article nor book of his but he just cannot be right as he voted for Trump waaaaah’ - perhaps if you weren't quite so emotionally invested in this, you'd have seen that I wasn't arguing 'he's wrong because he's conservative' but saying this isn't 'evidence' let alone 'data' that proves your point, in request for which you shared the suggestion that I read him, but merely a well known conservative writer articulating conservative arguments against AA, with which we are all familiar. And I think it's relevant to point out that the source you are citing is not an impartial social scientist, but a mouthpiece for a particular, hardline conservative tendency within American political thought, which has always been sceptical of using the state to combat racism. Again, that doesn't make it right or wrong, but it is reasonable to point out that it is one stream among several in political thought, and I'm afraid your framing of it as inherently and self-evidently right, and other positions as freakish aberrations betrays a shallowness of knowledge of the tenets of liberalism (by which I mean the mainstream Anglo-French intellectual tradition that goes back centuries, not the modern American sense of the word).
posted on 14/3/24
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 45 seconds ago
Browsing around, it seems that the University and Colleges Admissions Service and other similar institutions are really big on positive action.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Show me the policy which has enabled the changes seen from 2006-2022 across all universities. Just say you can’t, if you can’t.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure what you're looking for. Can you be more special? Maybe the Equalities Act?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did the equalities act 2010 put quotas in place if so when did it do that? What specific part of the equalities act relates to universities and positive action?
posted on 14/3/24
And yes I saw that link and I cannot believe you actually had the balls to share one link from one university out of the entire country to ‘demonstrate’ that this policy is responsible for the notable changes in entrance to higher education across the population from 2006-2022 for ALL universities.
=====
You want me to go to individual university pages to provide you with info?
You're asking for the impossible and then thinking you've scored a point because I can't provide it.
posted on 14/3/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 hours, 8 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 20 minutes ago
SatNav, you certainly provided a lot of links, as well as a recommendation that I read a book written by a renowned conservative writer, who supported Trump and is well know for his hostility to the Civil Rights movement, let alone affirmative action. What I was after was something more concrete: evidence that the effect of AA is resulting in a lack of access to elite education for Asian Americans. My point is that Asian Americans are by a substantial distance the most over-represented demographic in Ivy League universities, relative to their proportion in the country as a whole. (See the numbers here: https://blog.collegevine.com/the-demographics-of-the-ivy-league)
You contend that any kind of positive discrimination is inherently and beyond argument racist. I would counter that one really has to define racism more precisely in order to arrive at that conclusion. For you racism is quite simply making any judgement based on race. For me a more meaningful understanding of racism is a power dynamic in which the rights or opportunities of communities and the individuals within them are curbed as a result of their ethnic identity. Through this paradigm I would tend to say that Asian Americans as a community do not face the kinds of systemic barriers to advancement that black and hispanic Americans do - though there are contexts in which white privilege kicks in. I would say that there can be a broad social good in making elite institutions more representative of the demographic breakdown of a society as a whole, creating pathways for members of underrepresented communities to aspire to success and challenging stereotypes about what successful people look like. Of course, at an individual level, with a finite number of places in such institutions, that means that some people who are well qualified don't get in. But that's always the reality of elite institutions: you will always have ten times as many perfectly qualified applicants as places, and I struggle to believe that the beneficiaries of AA lack the intellectual capacity to thrive in an Ivy League environment. Every year thousands of rejected Oxbridge applicants get maximum marks in their A-levels. They're all clever enough to go to Oxbridge. If you were to test them, VAR style, to the fraction of the millimetre, perhaps you could rank them objectively and impartially. But in doing so, you might find that the cream of the crop was more disproportionately balanced toward private school kids than others - and then one faces the same question of whether they are really better, brighter, and more deserving, or whether they have been better equipped at the age of 18 to jump this particular hurdle.
It's my observation that people from less advantaged backgrounds who get to experience elite education often go on to more impressive achievements thereafter - because, even if they were objectively weaker candidates at the point of entry (having had less access to tutoring etc.) they still needed extraordinary ability to be at the front of the queue to benefit from those few opportunities based on AA or Oxbridge outreach to comprehensive schools.
Like most things, 'meritocracy' is more complex than it might seem at first glance. I don't subscribe to the idea of the undeserving poor, that working class people are inherently thicker or lazier or less talented than upper class people, nor do I believe that some ethnic groups are smarter than others. Society will never ensure that everyone has the same opportunities. But I broadly welcome its attempts to mitigate structures that lock out whole groups. So, going back to the original point about defining racism: I don't think American society is generally locking out Asian Americans or white people, which is why I dispute your contention that affirmative action is self-evidently racist in relation to them.
It certainly discriminates on the basis of class, and that affects working class students of any race. But that's perhaps another conversation, about the need to provide top level education to more people, and about the pernicious effect of having a handful of traditional universities acting a gatekeepers to establishment jobs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RR - I provided more than that. Thank you for proving that I was wasting my time, I shan’t do it again.
Of course you see racism as a power dynamic, you’ve gobbled up the usual manifestos. For me it’s quite simple really, Asian students shouldn’t have to get notably higher scores than other students due to their ethnicity. You think the form of discrimination is fine, just like Mamba does as you both read the same rubbish.
Discriminate on economic background, personal background, familial, maybe where people live - but age? No. Gender? No. Sxual orientation? No and….RACE? Guess what? Also NO.
Once you start to discriminate against protected characteristics - where does it end?
I never said that top tier education doesn’t benefit students. I mentioned that it has been posited that some may suffer, I never said it was my belief. The theory is that there’s a mismatch of levels but as I said from the very start the data is inconclusive.
As for your childish critique of Thomas Sowell as an individual and not one critique of his data nor ideas, I laugh at you. He has been looking at these issues for longer than you or I have likely been alive. He grew up in Harlem and has dedicated his entire distinguished career doing the most in-depth analysis of many of these socioeconomic race/related topics and what do you have to say? Trump supporter? Relevance? Just to try and point score with the locals? Again Conservative? Relevance? Do you expect a blue haired liberal professor from Berkeley to be making these points against AA? Good lord man, who do you think you’re kidding? Go and look at his data if you’re that bothered (which I don’t think you are) and then you can talk properly about what has been posited and leave your nonsense identity politics at the front door, thanks. ‘Wah he cannot possibly be correct because he’s a conservative wah, I’ve never read a single article nor book of his but he just cannot be right as he voted for Trump waaaaah’. Yes, that’s how you come across when you simply attack the author but not his ideas. Funny how you probably agree with a lot from the most famous of manifestos but those authors were as racist as it gets. N word this n word that.
You asked where AA harms students and I gave you data relating mostly to Asian students whom have to receive normally higher scores than other ethnicities; they’re harmed. Simple. You simply say well there are enough Asians already at top tier universities so they’re fine. I look at things from an individual level. People like you & Mamba look at things from an identity group perspective ‘sorry Jonny your group is doing so well that you’re not getting into Yale’. Again, identity politics -lovely stuff.
“I would tend to say that Asian Americans as a community do not face the kinds of systemic barriers to advancement that black and hispanic Americans do“ -
do you have an explanation as to why you think this is? Where is your data? Asians don’t face racism? Asians weren’t the poorest of all in the US a generation or so ago? They just magically appeared in the prosperous suburbs as lawyers and doctors with their children?
“Society will never ensure that everyone has the same opportunities.“
They can and will by race but not if people follow your & Mamba’s manifesto, that’s for sure.
“You contend that any kind of positive discrimination is inherently and beyond argument racist.“
Any discrimination based on race is racist, yes. Again, only a messed up intellectual could try to argue differently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SatNav, you're right that we're wasting our time. I'm quite struck by your acrimonious tone though. I tried to explain quite calmly the reasoning behind my views, and also to indicate that I recognise that your position is intellectually coherent, although I disagree with it.
As for ‘Wah he cannot possibly be correct because he’s a conservative wah, I’ve never read a single article nor book of his but he just cannot be right as he voted for Trump waaaaah’ - perhaps if you weren't quite so emotionally invested in this, you'd have seen that I wasn't arguing 'he's wrong because he's conservative' but saying this isn't 'evidence' let alone 'data' that proves your point, in request for which you shared the suggestion that I read him, but merely a well known conservative writer articulating conservative arguments against AA, with which we are all familiar. And I think it's relevant to point out that the source you are citing is not an impartial social scientist, but a mouthpiece for a particular, hardline conservative tendency within American political thought, which has always been sceptical of using the state to combat racism. Again, that doesn't make it right or wrong, but it is reasonable to point out that it is one stream among several in political thought, and I'm afraid your framing of it as inherently and self-evidently right, and other positions as freakish aberrations betrays a shallowness of knowledge of the tenets of liberalism (by which I mean the mainstream Anglo-French intellectual tradition that goes back centuries, not the modern American sense of the word).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why mention Trump then RR? Why on earth was that relevant? Here’s a clue, it wasn’t and it exposed you badly. Go and read his work, his books - then you can criticise him.
As for my tone, I don’t like my time being wasted. You asked for data, I gave you articles you repeated that you asked for data. So I gave you data only then later for you to refuse to acknowledge it. Sorry but I cba with that level of bullsheet.
posted on 14/3/24
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 45 seconds ago
Browsing around, it seems that the University and Colleges Admissions Service and other similar institutions are really big on positive action.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Show me the policy which has enabled the changes seen from 2006-2022 across all universities. Just say you can’t, if you can’t.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure what you're looking for. Can you be more special? Maybe the Equalities Act?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did the equalities act 2010 put quotas in place if so when did it do that? What specific part of the equalities act relates to universities and positive action?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Positive action is a permissive power under the UK's Equality Act 2010 enabling employers and other institutions to lawfully target employment and admission initiatives to disadvantaged or under-represented groups.
posted on 14/3/24
comment by Mamba the Chief Disinformation Officer on JA606 (U1282)
posted 1 minute ago
And yes I saw that link and I cannot believe you actually had the balls to share one link from one university out of the entire country to ‘demonstrate’ that this policy is responsible for the notable changes in entrance to higher education across the population from 2006-2022 for ALL universities.
=====
You want me to go to individual university pages to provide you with info?
You're asking for the impossible and then thinking you've scored a point because I can't provide it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If it respnsible for so much change, it shouldn’t be hard for you to find positive action uk universities. Go go go
posted on 14/3/24
And we don't like out time wasted.
Going by what you've said so far you should be appalled by positive action as well.
Tell us how positive action is racist or can be used in a racist manner please.
Fecking genius.
posted on 14/3/24
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 hours, 8 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 20 minutes ago
SatNav, you certainly provided a lot of links, as well as a recommendation that I read a book written by a renowned conservative writer, who supported Trump and is well know for his hostility to the Civil Rights movement, let alone affirmative action. What I was after was something more concrete: evidence that the effect of AA is resulting in a lack of access to elite education for Asian Americans. My point is that Asian Americans are by a substantial distance the most over-represented demographic in Ivy League universities, relative to their proportion in the country as a whole. (See the numbers here: https://blog.collegevine.com/the-demographics-of-the-ivy-league)
You contend that any kind of positive discrimination is inherently and beyond argument racist. I would counter that one really has to define racism more precisely in order to arrive at that conclusion. For you racism is quite simply making any judgement based on race. For me a more meaningful understanding of racism is a power dynamic in which the rights or opportunities of communities and the individuals within them are curbed as a result of their ethnic identity. Through this paradigm I would tend to say that Asian Americans as a community do not face the kinds of systemic barriers to advancement that black and hispanic Americans do - though there are contexts in which white privilege kicks in. I would say that there can be a broad social good in making elite institutions more representative of the demographic breakdown of a society as a whole, creating pathways for members of underrepresented communities to aspire to success and challenging stereotypes about what successful people look like. Of course, at an individual level, with a finite number of places in such institutions, that means that some people who are well qualified don't get in. But that's always the reality of elite institutions: you will always have ten times as many perfectly qualified applicants as places, and I struggle to believe that the beneficiaries of AA lack the intellectual capacity to thrive in an Ivy League environment. Every year thousands of rejected Oxbridge applicants get maximum marks in their A-levels. They're all clever enough to go to Oxbridge. If you were to test them, VAR style, to the fraction of the millimetre, perhaps you could rank them objectively and impartially. But in doing so, you might find that the cream of the crop was more disproportionately balanced toward private school kids than others - and then one faces the same question of whether they are really better, brighter, and more deserving, or whether they have been better equipped at the age of 18 to jump this particular hurdle.
It's my observation that people from less advantaged backgrounds who get to experience elite education often go on to more impressive achievements thereafter - because, even if they were objectively weaker candidates at the point of entry (having had less access to tutoring etc.) they still needed extraordinary ability to be at the front of the queue to benefit from those few opportunities based on AA or Oxbridge outreach to comprehensive schools.
Like most things, 'meritocracy' is more complex than it might seem at first glance. I don't subscribe to the idea of the undeserving poor, that working class people are inherently thicker or lazier or less talented than upper class people, nor do I believe that some ethnic groups are smarter than others. Society will never ensure that everyone has the same opportunities. But I broadly welcome its attempts to mitigate structures that lock out whole groups. So, going back to the original point about defining racism: I don't think American society is generally locking out Asian Americans or white people, which is why I dispute your contention that affirmative action is self-evidently racist in relation to them.
It certainly discriminates on the basis of class, and that affects working class students of any race. But that's perhaps another conversation, about the need to provide top level education to more people, and about the pernicious effect of having a handful of traditional universities acting a gatekeepers to establishment jobs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RR - I provided more than that. Thank you for proving that I was wasting my time, I shan’t do it again.
Of course you see racism as a power dynamic, you’ve gobbled up the usual manifestos. For me it’s quite simple really, Asian students shouldn’t have to get notably higher scores than other students due to their ethnicity. You think the form of discrimination is fine, just like Mamba does as you both read the same rubbish.
Discriminate on economic background, personal background, familial, maybe where people live - but age? No. Gender? No. Sxual orientation? No and….RACE? Guess what? Also NO.
Once you start to discriminate against protected characteristics - where does it end?
I never said that top tier education doesn’t benefit students. I mentioned that it has been posited that some may suffer, I never said it was my belief. The theory is that there’s a mismatch of levels but as I said from the very start the data is inconclusive.
As for your childish critique of Thomas Sowell as an individual and not one critique of his data nor ideas, I laugh at you. He has been looking at these issues for longer than you or I have likely been alive. He grew up in Harlem and has dedicated his entire distinguished career doing the most in-depth analysis of many of these socioeconomic race/related topics and what do you have to say? Trump supporter? Relevance? Just to try and point score with the locals? Again Conservative? Relevance? Do you expect a blue haired liberal professor from Berkeley to be making these points against AA? Good lord man, who do you think you’re kidding? Go and look at his data if you’re that bothered (which I don’t think you are) and then you can talk properly about what has been posited and leave your nonsense identity politics at the front door, thanks. ‘Wah he cannot possibly be correct because he’s a conservative wah, I’ve never read a single article nor book of his but he just cannot be right as he voted for Trump waaaaah’. Yes, that’s how you come across when you simply attack the author but not his ideas. Funny how you probably agree with a lot from the most famous of manifestos but those authors were as racist as it gets. N word this n word that.
You asked where AA harms students and I gave you data relating mostly to Asian students whom have to receive normally higher scores than other ethnicities; they’re harmed. Simple. You simply say well there are enough Asians already at top tier universities so they’re fine. I look at things from an individual level. People like you & Mamba look at things from an identity group perspective ‘sorry Jonny your group is doing so well that you’re not getting into Yale’. Again, identity politics -lovely stuff.
“I would tend to say that Asian Americans as a community do not face the kinds of systemic barriers to advancement that black and hispanic Americans do“ -
do you have an explanation as to why you think this is? Where is your data? Asians don’t face racism? Asians weren’t the poorest of all in the US a generation or so ago? They just magically appeared in the prosperous suburbs as lawyers and doctors with their children?
“Society will never ensure that everyone has the same opportunities.“
They can and will by race but not if people follow your & Mamba’s manifesto, that’s for sure.
“You contend that any kind of positive discrimination is inherently and beyond argument racist.“
Any discrimination based on race is racist, yes. Again, only a messed up intellectual could try to argue differently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SatNav, you're right that we're wasting our time. I'm quite struck by your acrimonious tone though. I tried to explain quite calmly the reasoning behind my views, and also to indicate that I recognise that your position is intellectually coherent, although I disagree with it.
As for ‘Wah he cannot possibly be correct because he’s a conservative wah, I’ve never read a single article nor book of his but he just cannot be right as he voted for Trump waaaaah’ - perhaps if you weren't quite so emotionally invested in this, you'd have seen that I wasn't arguing 'he's wrong because he's conservative' but saying this isn't 'evidence' let alone 'data' that proves your point, in request for which you shared the suggestion that I read him, but merely a well known conservative writer articulating conservative arguments against AA, with which we are all familiar. And I think it's relevant to point out that the source you are citing is not an impartial social scientist, but a mouthpiece for a particular, hardline conservative tendency within American political thought, which has always been sceptical of using the state to combat racism. Again, that doesn't make it right or wrong, but it is reasonable to point out that it is one stream among several in political thought, and I'm afraid your framing of it as inherently and self-evidently right, and other positions as freakish aberrations betrays a shallowness of knowledge of the tenets of liberalism (by which I mean the mainstream Anglo-French intellectual tradition that goes back centuries, not the modern American sense of the word).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why mention Trump then RR? Why on earth was that relevant? Here’s a clue, it wasn’t and it exposed you badly. Go and read his work, his books - then you can criticise him.
As for my tone, I don’t like my time being wasted. You asked for data, I gave you articles you repeated that you asked for data. So I gave you data only then later for you to refuse to acknowledge it. Sorry but I cba with that level of bullsheet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And if you want more data, again read his book(s). He’s lived his entire adult life dedicated to this.
Trump voter roflmao
Page 13 of 17
13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17