comment by ProPokerPlayer (U23205)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% agree with this. Too many people prepared to throw the racist insult about if someone doesn't conform to their political views. Its mental and I feel that this kind of attitude played a large part in the Brexit voting/result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It did. Obviously there's many people you'll never get through to but there's a scale where people can be influenced. Demonising people just gets in the way of getting the information you want to get across to them. It serves no purpose whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not demonising them, it’s calling them what they are.
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 38 minutes ago
All I’m saying is if you’re ever wondering how Hitler happened and the atrocities that followed, just keep watching America and witness it happening in real time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a crock of chit 😂😂😂
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by ProPokerPlayer (U23205)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% agree with this. Too many people prepared to throw the racist insult about if someone doesn't conform to their political views. Its mental and I feel that this kind of attitude played a large part in the Brexit voting/result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It did. Obviously there's many people you'll never get through to but there's a scale where people can be influenced. Demonising people just gets in the way of getting the information you want to get across to them. It serves no purpose whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not demonising them, it’s calling them what they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If they're already that, there's 70+ million of them, and that's the end of it. So it's been a waste of time commenting on this over the last decade. Go and enjoy your life.
But their absolute biggest mistake, was alienating their traditional voter base - they lost blue collar America and by labelling all those people as racist and fascist they will continue to do so. They need to wise up, be a little more cunning, a little more ruthless and learn the fundamental errors of this epic faaaack up
------------------------------------------------------
The same phenomenon is happening in pretty much every mature democracy, and different sets of tactics seem to have no real impact on the growing support for right-wing populism. Even when mainstream parties massively pander to those populist policies in an attempt to outflank them. It's a much more complex and structural phenomenon than abandoning the working class or talking down to it. Democrat policies are much more orientated toward improving the material conditions, financial security, etc. of the working class than Trump's. And if you look at the breakdown of support by income, Democrats are still doing much better with voters earning less than $50k than they are with voters earning $50-100k.
comment by The Mighty Red (U23215)
posted 2 minutes ago
Trump voter here.
The issue isn’t immigration, it’s ILLEGAL immigration. We have a process for folks who want to become citizens of the United States and that process must be followed.
Go further than that, the process for those wanting to seek asylum needs to be changed. My view is that if you’re a family coming to the US and seeking asylum, then follow the process, follow our requests, and we will investigate your claim and make a judgment. But if you’re a military aged male with no family with you and you are seeking asylum, chances are that unless you’re from Mexico or Cuba, it will be denied. Our request is that an asylum seeker should be seeking asylum in other countries before coming to the US.
So if you’re someone who thinks it’s racist to have an immigration policy in place, then you’re a deluded tool. A country without borders is no longer a country and i don’t respect any immigrant who doesn’t respect my country’s process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Retweet
comment by ProPokerPlayer (U23205)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% agree with this. Too many people prepared to throw the racist insult about if someone doesn't conform to their political views. Its mental and I feel that this kind of attitude played a large part in the Brexit voting/result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It did. Obviously there's many people you'll never get through to but there's a scale where people can be influenced. Demonising people just gets in the way of getting the information you want to get across to them. It serves no purpose whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
I think that there were many many people who probably wouldn't even have turned out to vote, if not for the remainers talking down to the brexiteers. It got people's backs up and I suspect ultimately tipped to scales in brexit's favour.
comment by ProPokerPlayer (U23205)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by ProPokerPlayer (U23205)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% agree with this. Too many people prepared to throw the racist insult about if someone doesn't conform to their political views. Its mental and I feel that this kind of attitude played a large part in the Brexit voting/result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It did. Obviously there's many people you'll never get through to but there's a scale where people can be influenced. Demonising people just gets in the way of getting the information you want to get across to them. It serves no purpose whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not demonising them, it’s calling them what they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If they're already that, there's 70+ million of them, and that's the end of it. So it's been a waste of time commenting on this over the last decade. Go and enjoy your life.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well no, we continue to let them know that’s what we think of them. I know I’ll never stop calling out bigots and racists until I’m cold in my grave.
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
If the left does not find common ground then the right will keep getting voted in as they are the majority.
Blair understood that and Starmer did too - although I think he will really schitt this up.
Sure Jeremy Corbyn is the pin up - but he is completely unelectable. Half the country think he is a sandal wearing, beard stroking, jam making belle end of a man
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Unelectable because…..oh I know this one, because our overwhelmingly right wing press told you he was unelectable.
I voted for Corbyn to be leader of the Labour Party and in both General Elections he fought.
He’s been proved right about most things, but especially Isreal/Palestine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s unelectable because he wanted to remove our nuclear deterrent - political suicide as even some of the most liberal amongst us felt that was faaacking stupid with people like Putin around.
It’s as simple as that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the reasons I supported him. What a ludicrous waste of money which is neither a deterrent nor ever going to be used.
I question if we even really have any.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We don't ever want it to be used. And of course it is a deterrent.
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
----------------------------------------
If they're already that, there's 70+ million of them, and that's the end of it. So it's been a waste of time commenting on this over the last decade. Go and enjoy your life.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well no, we continue to let them know that’s what we think of them. I know I’ll never stop calling out bigots and racists until I’m cold in my grave.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok well if you want to spend your life pointing out a tree is a tree that's your choice isn't is.
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by LordDowlias (U3236)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by ProPokerPlayer (U23205)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 20 seconds ago
Our grandparents knew how to deal with fascists, and I’m pretty certain appeasement and finding common never came into it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's exactly how Chamberlain tried to deal with Hitler. You should try to read some history books instead of just pointlessly flaming people on a forum.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100%. Churchill was not the full shilling, and in todays terms he would have been viewed upon as people are looking at Trump or Farage, but he was our greatest ever leader.
People really do need to reed a few books before coming onto the internet to shout people down.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was a perfect war time leader. He was voted out almost immediately after the war was won.
Stalin ran rings around him at Yalta and we effectively got cut out of deciding the new world order
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes he was the man for the job. Resilient , stiff upper lip, not for putting up with being bullied, we called him the British Bulldog. He summed it up what it was to be British. He as tenacious, resolute and loyal.
Yet, if he was here now, he would be hounded out of town for his personal beliefs and his personal life. Good thing there was no internet back in the day, we could have lost the war.
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
If the left does not find common ground then the right will keep getting voted in as they are the majority.
Blair understood that and Starmer did too - although I think he will really schitt this up.
Sure Jeremy Corbyn is the pin up - but he is completely unelectable. Half the country think he is a sandal wearing, beard stroking, jam making belle end of a man
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Unelectable because…..oh I know this one, because our overwhelmingly right wing press told you he was unelectable.
I voted for Corbyn to be leader of the Labour Party and in both General Elections he fought.
He’s been proved right about most things, but especially Isreal/Palestine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s unelectable because he wanted to remove our nuclear deterrent - political suicide as even some of the most liberal amongst us felt that was faaacking stupid with people like Putin around.
It’s as simple as that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the reasons I supported him. What a ludicrous waste of money which is neither a deterrent nor ever going to be used.
I question if we even really have any.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It helps a lot of people sleep well at night.
If Corbyn truly wanted to be prime minister then he would have kept this point of view to himself - you don’t have to be brain of Britain to know that his view on trident was going to be unpalatable to, at a minimum, half the electorate
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 minutes ago
But their absolute biggest mistake, was alienating their traditional voter base - they lost blue collar America and by labelling all those people as racist and fascist they will continue to do so. They need to wise up, be a little more cunning, a little more ruthless and learn the fundamental errors of this epic faaaack up
------------------------------------------------------
The same phenomenon is happening in pretty much every mature democracy, and different sets of tactics seem to have no real impact on the growing support for right-wing populism. Even when mainstream parties massively pander to those populist policies in an attempt to outflank them. It's a much more complex and structural phenomenon than abandoning the working class or talking down to it. Democrat policies are much more orientated toward improving the material conditions, financial security, etc. of the working class than Trump's. And if you look at the breakdown of support by income, Democrats are still doing much better with voters earning less than $50k than they are with voters earning $50-100k.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But they don’t feel like they are - as per the polls. Perspective will win every single time.
You can’t run a campaign on faaacking “Joy” when the majority of the populace is not sensing joy
Urgh, there’s an actual Trump voter commenting
I agree with Joe & Kamala. Fascist Garbage.
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 minutes ago
But their absolute biggest mistake, was alienating their traditional voter base - they lost blue collar America and by labelling all those people as racist and fascist they will continue to do so. They need to wise up, be a little more cunning, a little more ruthless and learn the fundamental errors of this epic faaaack up
------------------------------------------------------
The same phenomenon is happening in pretty much every mature democracy, and different sets of tactics seem to have no real impact on the growing support for right-wing populism. Even when mainstream parties massively pander to those populist policies in an attempt to outflank them. It's a much more complex and structural phenomenon than abandoning the working class or talking down to it. Democrat policies are much more orientated toward improving the material conditions, financial security, etc. of the working class than Trump's. And if you look at the breakdown of support by income, Democrats are still doing much better with voters earning less than $50k than they are with voters earning $50-100k.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But they don’t feel like they are - as per the polls. Perspective will win every single time.
You can’t run a campaign on faaacking “Joy” when the majority of the populace is not sensing joy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course they’re not feeling joy, they’re bitter old racists who are not capable of that emotion.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
If the left does not find common ground then the right will keep getting voted in as they are the majority.
Blair understood that and Starmer did too - although I think he will really schitt this up.
Sure Jeremy Corbyn is the pin up - but he is completely unelectable. Half the country think he is a sandal wearing, beard stroking, jam making belle end of a man
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Unelectable because…..oh I know this one, because our overwhelmingly right wing press told you he was unelectable.
I voted for Corbyn to be leader of the Labour Party and in both General Elections he fought.
He’s been proved right about most things, but especially Isreal/Palestine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s unelectable because he wanted to remove our nuclear deterrent - political suicide as even some of the most liberal amongst us felt that was faaacking stupid with people like Putin around.
It’s as simple as that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the reasons I supported him. What a ludicrous waste of money which is neither a deterrent nor ever going to be used.
I question if we even really have any.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We don't ever want it to be used. And of course it is a deterrent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only reason we weren’t over run in World war 2 was because we are an island and we had the Dowding system. That system allowed us to have planes in the air before the luftwaffe could bomb our runways and prevent us from taking off. It spooked Hitler enough to turn his attention away from us and instead make the fatal error of focusing on Russia in the winter.
Our Nuclear ability is our current Dowding system - it’s what will stop other fascist regimes in their tracks and pause for thought.
Getting rid of it is the single most stupid thing I have ever heard a politician say - political suicide and he was unelectable from that moment onwards. No one in this country wants to be in Ukraines position where they have to send their sons off to war
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
If the left does not find common ground then the right will keep getting voted in as they are the majority.
Blair understood that and Starmer did too - although I think he will really schitt this up.
Sure Jeremy Corbyn is the pin up - but he is completely unelectable. Half the country think he is a sandal wearing, beard stroking, jam making belle end of a man
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Unelectable because…..oh I know this one, because our overwhelmingly right wing press told you he was unelectable.
I voted for Corbyn to be leader of the Labour Party and in both General Elections he fought.
He’s been proved right about most things, but especially Isreal/Palestine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s unelectable because he wanted to remove our nuclear deterrent - political suicide as even some of the most liberal amongst us felt that was faaacking stupid with people like Putin around.
It’s as simple as that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the reasons I supported him. What a ludicrous waste of money which is neither a deterrent nor ever going to be used.
I question if we even really have any.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We don't ever want it to be used. And of course it is a deterrent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only reason we weren’t over run in World war 2 was because we are an island and we had the Dowding system. That system allowed us to have planes in the air before the luftwaffe could bomb our runways and prevent us from taking off. It spooked Hitler enough to turn his attention away from us and instead make the fatal error of focusing on Russia in the winter.
Our Nuclear ability is our current Dowding system - it’s what will stop other fascist regimes in their tracks and pause for thought.
Getting rid of it is the single most stupid thing I have ever heard a politician say - political suicide and he was unelectable from that moment onwards. No one in this country wants to be in Ukraines position where they have to send their sons off to war
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
You will probably get called a racist for that opinion though.
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
If the left does not find common ground then the right will keep getting voted in as they are the majority.
Blair understood that and Starmer did too - although I think he will really schitt this up.
Sure Jeremy Corbyn is the pin up - but he is completely unelectable. Half the country think he is a sandal wearing, beard stroking, jam making belle end of a man
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Unelectable because…..oh I know this one, because our overwhelmingly right wing press told you he was unelectable.
I voted for Corbyn to be leader of the Labour Party and in both General Elections he fought.
He’s been proved right about most things, but especially Isreal/Palestine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s unelectable because he wanted to remove our nuclear deterrent - political suicide as even some of the most liberal amongst us felt that was faaacking stupid with people like Putin around.
It’s as simple as that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the reasons I supported him. What a ludicrous waste of money which is neither a deterrent nor ever going to be used.
I question if we even really have any.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We don't ever want it to be used. And of course it is a deterrent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only reason we weren’t over run in World war 2 was because we are an island and we had the Dowding system. That system allowed us to have planes in the air before the luftwaffe could bomb our runways and prevent us from taking off. It spooked Hitler enough to turn his attention away from us and instead make the fatal error of focusing on Russia in the winter.
Our Nuclear ability is our current Dowding system - it’s what will stop other fascist regimes in their tracks and pause for thought.
Getting rid of it is the single most stupid thing I have ever heard a politician say - political suicide and he was unelectable from that moment onwards. No one in this country wants to be in Ukraines position where they have to send their sons off to war
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Britain uses its Nuke, we’re already all dead.
I’d get rid of it tomorrow.
Many other politicians said worse things than contemplating Gett rid of trident and didn't suffer anywhere near what Corbyn suffered.
It wasn't policies like that that made the media and the rich gang up to slander his name. It was his economic and social outlook that made him unacceptable to the wealthy class and using their media they convinced the common man to focus on nonsense like Trident, allowing the Tories to run through on goal and absolutely rip the country a new ass hole and leave tax payers paying for everything in their wake.
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 minutes ago
But their absolute biggest mistake, was alienating their traditional voter base - they lost blue collar America and by labelling all those people as racist and fascist they will continue to do so. They need to wise up, be a little more cunning, a little more ruthless and learn the fundamental errors of this epic faaaack up
------------------------------------------------------
The same phenomenon is happening in pretty much every mature democracy, and different sets of tactics seem to have no real impact on the growing support for right-wing populism. Even when mainstream parties massively pander to those populist policies in an attempt to outflank them. It's a much more complex and structural phenomenon than abandoning the working class or talking down to it. Democrat policies are much more orientated toward improving the material conditions, financial security, etc. of the working class than Trump's. And if you look at the breakdown of support by income, Democrats are still doing much better with voters earning less than $50k than they are with voters earning $50-100k.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But they don’t feel like they are - as per the polls. Perspective will win every single time.
You can’t run a campaign on faaacking “Joy” when the majority of the populace is not sensing joy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And if she ran on dark, apocalyptic notes like Trump, she would fail to out-MAGA Trump with the Republican base, while massively alienating key parts of the Democratic coalition, which include tens of millions of college-educated, liberal voters and working class black voters who want to feel someone represents their interests against racism. If there was a simple answer to this conundrum, someone would have run with it and galvanized the support of all those disparate groups with different economic interests and cultural priorities.
The fact is, the international phenomenon of high inflation has resulted in nearly every incumbent government facing a general election over the last year or two losing power (where elections are genuinely free and competitive). In many cases with historically heavy defeats. Kamala Harris's defeat represents a much smaller margin of loss and much smaller drop in support relative to that international trend.
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
If the left does not find common ground then the right will keep getting voted in as they are the majority.
Blair understood that and Starmer did too - although I think he will really schitt this up.
Sure Jeremy Corbyn is the pin up - but he is completely unelectable. Half the country think he is a sandal wearing, beard stroking, jam making belle end of a man
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Unelectable because…..oh I know this one, because our overwhelmingly right wing press told you he was unelectable.
I voted for Corbyn to be leader of the Labour Party and in both General Elections he fought.
He’s been proved right about most things, but especially Isreal/Palestine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s unelectable because he wanted to remove our nuclear deterrent - political suicide as even some of the most liberal amongst us felt that was faaacking stupid with people like Putin around.
It’s as simple as that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the reasons I supported him. What a ludicrous waste of money which is neither a deterrent nor ever going to be used.
I question if we even really have any.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We don't ever want it to be used. And of course it is a deterrent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only reason we weren’t over run in World war 2 was because we are an island and we had the Dowding system. That system allowed us to have planes in the air before the luftwaffe could bomb our runways and prevent us from taking off. It spooked Hitler enough to turn his attention away from us and instead make the fatal error of focusing on Russia in the winter.
Our Nuclear ability is our current Dowding system - it’s what will stop other fascist regimes in their tracks and pause for thought.
Getting rid of it is the single most stupid thing I have ever heard a politician say - political suicide and he was unelectable from that moment onwards. No one in this country wants to be in Ukraines position where they have to send their sons off to war
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Britain uses its Nuke, we’re already all dead.
I’d get rid of it tomorrow.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not about using them, it’s the fact we have the capacity to use them.
Putin knows this and despite all his bluff, he isn’t risking Moscow and St Petersburg being reduced to a smouldering radioactive wasteland.
That’s the deterrent - the thought of what we could do with them.
It’s why the Israelis won’t actually go to war with Iran and vice versa, they have proxy wars instead - both sides are scared of the others nuclear capability
It seems to me that most of the countries that send their sons off to war are nuclear capable countries whereas most that don't send their sons off to war are not nuclear capable.
Ok well I think you’re grossly exaggerating Britain’s importance, but whatever.
Funny how the other 200 odd countries in the world manage perfectly well without $punking billions of pounds on pointless nukes, but WE obviously need them.
comment by Trump 2024, Make America Great Again (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
Many other politicians said worse things than contemplating Gett rid of trident and didn't suffer anywhere near what Corbyn suffered.
It wasn't policies like that that made the media and the rich gang up to slander his name. It was his economic and social outlook that made him unacceptable to the wealthy class and using their media they convinced the common man to focus on nonsense like Trident, allowing the Tories to run through on goal and absolutely rip the country a new ass hole and leave tax payers paying for everything in their wake.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure but your average man on the street had spent the previous decade hearing about the war on terror and this chap called Putin. Then along comes Jeremy from Islington saying we should get rid of our nuclear deterrent - completely unelectable at that moment regardless of any other policy.
This country knows the sacrifice of war, parents aren’t sending their kids off to fight one when we all we need to prevent it is Trident
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 minutes ago
But their absolute biggest mistake, was alienating their traditional voter base - they lost blue collar America and by labelling all those people as racist and fascist they will continue to do so. They need to wise up, be a little more cunning, a little more ruthless and learn the fundamental errors of this epic faaaack up
------------------------------------------------------
The same phenomenon is happening in pretty much every mature democracy, and different sets of tactics seem to have no real impact on the growing support for right-wing populism. Even when mainstream parties massively pander to those populist policies in an attempt to outflank them. It's a much more complex and structural phenomenon than abandoning the working class or talking down to it. Democrat policies are much more orientated toward improving the material conditions, financial security, etc. of the working class than Trump's. And if you look at the breakdown of support by income, Democrats are still doing much better with voters earning less than $50k than they are with voters earning $50-100k.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But they don’t feel like they are - as per the polls. Perspective will win every single time.
You can’t run a campaign on faaacking “Joy” when the majority of the populace is not sensing joy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And if she ran on dark, apocalyptic notes like Trump, she would fail to out-MAGA Trump with the Republican base, while massively alienating key parts of the Democratic coalition, which include tens of millions of college-educated, liberal voters and working class black voters who want to feel someone represents their interests against racism. If there was a simple answer to this conundrum, someone would have run with it and galvanized the support of all those disparate groups with different economic interests and cultural priorities.
The fact is, the international phenomenon of high inflation has resulted in nearly every incumbent government facing a general election over the last year or two losing power (where elections are genuinely free and competitive). In many cases with historically heavy defeats. Kamala Harris's defeat represents a much smaller margin of loss and much smaller drop in support relative to that international trend.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
She could have won if she had run on the policies she did whilst also addressing the Democrats short comings during the previous term. Specifically what was she going to do about Israel - she polled terribly with Arab Americans. What was she going to do about aid to Ukraine?
As terrible as it sounds - those two points along with the economy and immigration far out weighed the abortion laws in the minds of Americans. But she and the Dems should have known that, the country was built originally on fundamental Christianity - basically a load of people thinking they shouldn’t be pregnant outside of marriage.
But the Dems didn’t want to engage in the topics that the majority of Americans wanted to engage on and so Trump with at times mindless rhetoric won that portion of the vote because he had engaged.
So many errors from the Dems this time round - they have to stop pointing at what they see as the opposition and blaming them and instead think how do we win in 2028, how can we be better
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 43 seconds ago
comment by Trump 2024, Make America Great Again(U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
Many other politicians said worse things than contemplating Gett rid of trident and didn't suffer anywhere near what Corbyn suffered.
It wasn't policies like that that made the media and the rich gang up to slander his name. It was his economic and social outlook that made him unacceptable to the wealthy class and using their media they convinced the common man to focus on nonsense like Trident, allowing the Tories to run through on goal and absolutely rip the country a new ass hole and leave tax payers paying for everything in their wake.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure but your average man on the street had spent the previous decade hearing about the war on terror and this chap called Putin. Then along comes Jeremy from Islington saying we should get rid of our nuclear deterrent - completely unelectable at that moment regardless of any other policy.
This country knows the sacrifice of war, parents aren’t sending their kids off to fight one when we all we need to prevent it is Trident
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fack off. Boris Johnson got drugged at some Russian agent's party and was found wondering the streets dazed and confused and still became PM.
You're also missing a lot of context in saying he wanted to get rid of trident. He refused to say that he thought trident was relevant but said that Labour was committed to renewing trident and the party was committed to trident.
All politicians say crazy things, especially in this day and age. They just latched on to some things and used the media machine to get the geniuses to vote as required. His economic and social policies were good enough to overlook such trivialities IMO, but people were scaremongered that Putin would invade if Corbyn got in when the truth is he just wasn't good for the business of the rich and corporates.
Sign in if you want to comment
Last look at the election
Page 4 of 12
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
posted on 7/11/24
comment by ProPokerPlayer (U23205)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% agree with this. Too many people prepared to throw the racist insult about if someone doesn't conform to their political views. Its mental and I feel that this kind of attitude played a large part in the Brexit voting/result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It did. Obviously there's many people you'll never get through to but there's a scale where people can be influenced. Demonising people just gets in the way of getting the information you want to get across to them. It serves no purpose whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not demonising them, it’s calling them what they are.
posted on 7/11/24
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 38 minutes ago
All I’m saying is if you’re ever wondering how Hitler happened and the atrocities that followed, just keep watching America and witness it happening in real time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a crock of chit 😂😂😂
posted on 7/11/24
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by ProPokerPlayer (U23205)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% agree with this. Too many people prepared to throw the racist insult about if someone doesn't conform to their political views. Its mental and I feel that this kind of attitude played a large part in the Brexit voting/result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It did. Obviously there's many people you'll never get through to but there's a scale where people can be influenced. Demonising people just gets in the way of getting the information you want to get across to them. It serves no purpose whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not demonising them, it’s calling them what they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If they're already that, there's 70+ million of them, and that's the end of it. So it's been a waste of time commenting on this over the last decade. Go and enjoy your life.
posted on 7/11/24
But their absolute biggest mistake, was alienating their traditional voter base - they lost blue collar America and by labelling all those people as racist and fascist they will continue to do so. They need to wise up, be a little more cunning, a little more ruthless and learn the fundamental errors of this epic faaaack up
------------------------------------------------------
The same phenomenon is happening in pretty much every mature democracy, and different sets of tactics seem to have no real impact on the growing support for right-wing populism. Even when mainstream parties massively pander to those populist policies in an attempt to outflank them. It's a much more complex and structural phenomenon than abandoning the working class or talking down to it. Democrat policies are much more orientated toward improving the material conditions, financial security, etc. of the working class than Trump's. And if you look at the breakdown of support by income, Democrats are still doing much better with voters earning less than $50k than they are with voters earning $50-100k.
posted on 7/11/24
comment by The Mighty Red (U23215)
posted 2 minutes ago
Trump voter here.
The issue isn’t immigration, it’s ILLEGAL immigration. We have a process for folks who want to become citizens of the United States and that process must be followed.
Go further than that, the process for those wanting to seek asylum needs to be changed. My view is that if you’re a family coming to the US and seeking asylum, then follow the process, follow our requests, and we will investigate your claim and make a judgment. But if you’re a military aged male with no family with you and you are seeking asylum, chances are that unless you’re from Mexico or Cuba, it will be denied. Our request is that an asylum seeker should be seeking asylum in other countries before coming to the US.
So if you’re someone who thinks it’s racist to have an immigration policy in place, then you’re a deluded tool. A country without borders is no longer a country and i don’t respect any immigrant who doesn’t respect my country’s process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Retweet
posted on 7/11/24
comment by ProPokerPlayer (U23205)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% agree with this. Too many people prepared to throw the racist insult about if someone doesn't conform to their political views. Its mental and I feel that this kind of attitude played a large part in the Brexit voting/result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It did. Obviously there's many people you'll never get through to but there's a scale where people can be influenced. Demonising people just gets in the way of getting the information you want to get across to them. It serves no purpose whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
I think that there were many many people who probably wouldn't even have turned out to vote, if not for the remainers talking down to the brexiteers. It got people's backs up and I suspect ultimately tipped to scales in brexit's favour.
posted on 7/11/24
comment by ProPokerPlayer (U23205)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by ProPokerPlayer (U23205)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% agree with this. Too many people prepared to throw the racist insult about if someone doesn't conform to their political views. Its mental and I feel that this kind of attitude played a large part in the Brexit voting/result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It did. Obviously there's many people you'll never get through to but there's a scale where people can be influenced. Demonising people just gets in the way of getting the information you want to get across to them. It serves no purpose whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not demonising them, it’s calling them what they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If they're already that, there's 70+ million of them, and that's the end of it. So it's been a waste of time commenting on this over the last decade. Go and enjoy your life.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well no, we continue to let them know that’s what we think of them. I know I’ll never stop calling out bigots and racists until I’m cold in my grave.
posted on 7/11/24
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
If the left does not find common ground then the right will keep getting voted in as they are the majority.
Blair understood that and Starmer did too - although I think he will really schitt this up.
Sure Jeremy Corbyn is the pin up - but he is completely unelectable. Half the country think he is a sandal wearing, beard stroking, jam making belle end of a man
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Unelectable because…..oh I know this one, because our overwhelmingly right wing press told you he was unelectable.
I voted for Corbyn to be leader of the Labour Party and in both General Elections he fought.
He’s been proved right about most things, but especially Isreal/Palestine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s unelectable because he wanted to remove our nuclear deterrent - political suicide as even some of the most liberal amongst us felt that was faaacking stupid with people like Putin around.
It’s as simple as that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the reasons I supported him. What a ludicrous waste of money which is neither a deterrent nor ever going to be used.
I question if we even really have any.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We don't ever want it to be used. And of course it is a deterrent.
posted on 7/11/24
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
----------------------------------------
If they're already that, there's 70+ million of them, and that's the end of it. So it's been a waste of time commenting on this over the last decade. Go and enjoy your life.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well no, we continue to let them know that’s what we think of them. I know I’ll never stop calling out bigots and racists until I’m cold in my grave.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok well if you want to spend your life pointing out a tree is a tree that's your choice isn't is.
posted on 7/11/24
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by LordDowlias (U3236)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by ProPokerPlayer (U23205)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 20 seconds ago
Our grandparents knew how to deal with fascists, and I’m pretty certain appeasement and finding common never came into it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's exactly how Chamberlain tried to deal with Hitler. You should try to read some history books instead of just pointlessly flaming people on a forum.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100%. Churchill was not the full shilling, and in todays terms he would have been viewed upon as people are looking at Trump or Farage, but he was our greatest ever leader.
People really do need to reed a few books before coming onto the internet to shout people down.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was a perfect war time leader. He was voted out almost immediately after the war was won.
Stalin ran rings around him at Yalta and we effectively got cut out of deciding the new world order
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes he was the man for the job. Resilient , stiff upper lip, not for putting up with being bullied, we called him the British Bulldog. He summed it up what it was to be British. He as tenacious, resolute and loyal.
Yet, if he was here now, he would be hounded out of town for his personal beliefs and his personal life. Good thing there was no internet back in the day, we could have lost the war.
posted on 7/11/24
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
If the left does not find common ground then the right will keep getting voted in as they are the majority.
Blair understood that and Starmer did too - although I think he will really schitt this up.
Sure Jeremy Corbyn is the pin up - but he is completely unelectable. Half the country think he is a sandal wearing, beard stroking, jam making belle end of a man
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Unelectable because…..oh I know this one, because our overwhelmingly right wing press told you he was unelectable.
I voted for Corbyn to be leader of the Labour Party and in both General Elections he fought.
He’s been proved right about most things, but especially Isreal/Palestine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s unelectable because he wanted to remove our nuclear deterrent - political suicide as even some of the most liberal amongst us felt that was faaacking stupid with people like Putin around.
It’s as simple as that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the reasons I supported him. What a ludicrous waste of money which is neither a deterrent nor ever going to be used.
I question if we even really have any.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It helps a lot of people sleep well at night.
If Corbyn truly wanted to be prime minister then he would have kept this point of view to himself - you don’t have to be brain of Britain to know that his view on trident was going to be unpalatable to, at a minimum, half the electorate
posted on 7/11/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 minutes ago
But their absolute biggest mistake, was alienating their traditional voter base - they lost blue collar America and by labelling all those people as racist and fascist they will continue to do so. They need to wise up, be a little more cunning, a little more ruthless and learn the fundamental errors of this epic faaaack up
------------------------------------------------------
The same phenomenon is happening in pretty much every mature democracy, and different sets of tactics seem to have no real impact on the growing support for right-wing populism. Even when mainstream parties massively pander to those populist policies in an attempt to outflank them. It's a much more complex and structural phenomenon than abandoning the working class or talking down to it. Democrat policies are much more orientated toward improving the material conditions, financial security, etc. of the working class than Trump's. And if you look at the breakdown of support by income, Democrats are still doing much better with voters earning less than $50k than they are with voters earning $50-100k.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But they don’t feel like they are - as per the polls. Perspective will win every single time.
You can’t run a campaign on faaacking “Joy” when the majority of the populace is not sensing joy
posted on 7/11/24
Urgh, there’s an actual Trump voter commenting
I agree with Joe & Kamala. Fascist Garbage.
posted on 7/11/24
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 minutes ago
But their absolute biggest mistake, was alienating their traditional voter base - they lost blue collar America and by labelling all those people as racist and fascist they will continue to do so. They need to wise up, be a little more cunning, a little more ruthless and learn the fundamental errors of this epic faaaack up
------------------------------------------------------
The same phenomenon is happening in pretty much every mature democracy, and different sets of tactics seem to have no real impact on the growing support for right-wing populism. Even when mainstream parties massively pander to those populist policies in an attempt to outflank them. It's a much more complex and structural phenomenon than abandoning the working class or talking down to it. Democrat policies are much more orientated toward improving the material conditions, financial security, etc. of the working class than Trump's. And if you look at the breakdown of support by income, Democrats are still doing much better with voters earning less than $50k than they are with voters earning $50-100k.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But they don’t feel like they are - as per the polls. Perspective will win every single time.
You can’t run a campaign on faaacking “Joy” when the majority of the populace is not sensing joy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course they’re not feeling joy, they’re bitter old racists who are not capable of that emotion.
posted on 7/11/24
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
If the left does not find common ground then the right will keep getting voted in as they are the majority.
Blair understood that and Starmer did too - although I think he will really schitt this up.
Sure Jeremy Corbyn is the pin up - but he is completely unelectable. Half the country think he is a sandal wearing, beard stroking, jam making belle end of a man
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Unelectable because…..oh I know this one, because our overwhelmingly right wing press told you he was unelectable.
I voted for Corbyn to be leader of the Labour Party and in both General Elections he fought.
He’s been proved right about most things, but especially Isreal/Palestine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s unelectable because he wanted to remove our nuclear deterrent - political suicide as even some of the most liberal amongst us felt that was faaacking stupid with people like Putin around.
It’s as simple as that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the reasons I supported him. What a ludicrous waste of money which is neither a deterrent nor ever going to be used.
I question if we even really have any.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We don't ever want it to be used. And of course it is a deterrent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only reason we weren’t over run in World war 2 was because we are an island and we had the Dowding system. That system allowed us to have planes in the air before the luftwaffe could bomb our runways and prevent us from taking off. It spooked Hitler enough to turn his attention away from us and instead make the fatal error of focusing on Russia in the winter.
Our Nuclear ability is our current Dowding system - it’s what will stop other fascist regimes in their tracks and pause for thought.
Getting rid of it is the single most stupid thing I have ever heard a politician say - political suicide and he was unelectable from that moment onwards. No one in this country wants to be in Ukraines position where they have to send their sons off to war
posted on 7/11/24
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
If the left does not find common ground then the right will keep getting voted in as they are the majority.
Blair understood that and Starmer did too - although I think he will really schitt this up.
Sure Jeremy Corbyn is the pin up - but he is completely unelectable. Half the country think he is a sandal wearing, beard stroking, jam making belle end of a man
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Unelectable because…..oh I know this one, because our overwhelmingly right wing press told you he was unelectable.
I voted for Corbyn to be leader of the Labour Party and in both General Elections he fought.
He’s been proved right about most things, but especially Isreal/Palestine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s unelectable because he wanted to remove our nuclear deterrent - political suicide as even some of the most liberal amongst us felt that was faaacking stupid with people like Putin around.
It’s as simple as that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the reasons I supported him. What a ludicrous waste of money which is neither a deterrent nor ever going to be used.
I question if we even really have any.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We don't ever want it to be used. And of course it is a deterrent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only reason we weren’t over run in World war 2 was because we are an island and we had the Dowding system. That system allowed us to have planes in the air before the luftwaffe could bomb our runways and prevent us from taking off. It spooked Hitler enough to turn his attention away from us and instead make the fatal error of focusing on Russia in the winter.
Our Nuclear ability is our current Dowding system - it’s what will stop other fascist regimes in their tracks and pause for thought.
Getting rid of it is the single most stupid thing I have ever heard a politician say - political suicide and he was unelectable from that moment onwards. No one in this country wants to be in Ukraines position where they have to send their sons off to war
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
You will probably get called a racist for that opinion though.
posted on 7/11/24
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
If the left does not find common ground then the right will keep getting voted in as they are the majority.
Blair understood that and Starmer did too - although I think he will really schitt this up.
Sure Jeremy Corbyn is the pin up - but he is completely unelectable. Half the country think he is a sandal wearing, beard stroking, jam making belle end of a man
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Unelectable because…..oh I know this one, because our overwhelmingly right wing press told you he was unelectable.
I voted for Corbyn to be leader of the Labour Party and in both General Elections he fought.
He’s been proved right about most things, but especially Isreal/Palestine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s unelectable because he wanted to remove our nuclear deterrent - political suicide as even some of the most liberal amongst us felt that was faaacking stupid with people like Putin around.
It’s as simple as that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the reasons I supported him. What a ludicrous waste of money which is neither a deterrent nor ever going to be used.
I question if we even really have any.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We don't ever want it to be used. And of course it is a deterrent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only reason we weren’t over run in World war 2 was because we are an island and we had the Dowding system. That system allowed us to have planes in the air before the luftwaffe could bomb our runways and prevent us from taking off. It spooked Hitler enough to turn his attention away from us and instead make the fatal error of focusing on Russia in the winter.
Our Nuclear ability is our current Dowding system - it’s what will stop other fascist regimes in their tracks and pause for thought.
Getting rid of it is the single most stupid thing I have ever heard a politician say - political suicide and he was unelectable from that moment onwards. No one in this country wants to be in Ukraines position where they have to send their sons off to war
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Britain uses its Nuke, we’re already all dead.
I’d get rid of it tomorrow.
posted on 7/11/24
Many other politicians said worse things than contemplating Gett rid of trident and didn't suffer anywhere near what Corbyn suffered.
It wasn't policies like that that made the media and the rich gang up to slander his name. It was his economic and social outlook that made him unacceptable to the wealthy class and using their media they convinced the common man to focus on nonsense like Trident, allowing the Tories to run through on goal and absolutely rip the country a new ass hole and leave tax payers paying for everything in their wake.
posted on 7/11/24
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 minutes ago
But their absolute biggest mistake, was alienating their traditional voter base - they lost blue collar America and by labelling all those people as racist and fascist they will continue to do so. They need to wise up, be a little more cunning, a little more ruthless and learn the fundamental errors of this epic faaaack up
------------------------------------------------------
The same phenomenon is happening in pretty much every mature democracy, and different sets of tactics seem to have no real impact on the growing support for right-wing populism. Even when mainstream parties massively pander to those populist policies in an attempt to outflank them. It's a much more complex and structural phenomenon than abandoning the working class or talking down to it. Democrat policies are much more orientated toward improving the material conditions, financial security, etc. of the working class than Trump's. And if you look at the breakdown of support by income, Democrats are still doing much better with voters earning less than $50k than they are with voters earning $50-100k.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But they don’t feel like they are - as per the polls. Perspective will win every single time.
You can’t run a campaign on faaacking “Joy” when the majority of the populace is not sensing joy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And if she ran on dark, apocalyptic notes like Trump, she would fail to out-MAGA Trump with the Republican base, while massively alienating key parts of the Democratic coalition, which include tens of millions of college-educated, liberal voters and working class black voters who want to feel someone represents their interests against racism. If there was a simple answer to this conundrum, someone would have run with it and galvanized the support of all those disparate groups with different economic interests and cultural priorities.
The fact is, the international phenomenon of high inflation has resulted in nearly every incumbent government facing a general election over the last year or two losing power (where elections are genuinely free and competitive). In many cases with historically heavy defeats. Kamala Harris's defeat represents a much smaller margin of loss and much smaller drop in support relative to that international trend.
posted on 7/11/24
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
If the left does not find common ground then the right will keep getting voted in as they are the majority.
Blair understood that and Starmer did too - although I think he will really schitt this up.
Sure Jeremy Corbyn is the pin up - but he is completely unelectable. Half the country think he is a sandal wearing, beard stroking, jam making belle end of a man
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Unelectable because…..oh I know this one, because our overwhelmingly right wing press told you he was unelectable.
I voted for Corbyn to be leader of the Labour Party and in both General Elections he fought.
He’s been proved right about most things, but especially Isreal/Palestine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s unelectable because he wanted to remove our nuclear deterrent - political suicide as even some of the most liberal amongst us felt that was faaacking stupid with people like Putin around.
It’s as simple as that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the reasons I supported him. What a ludicrous waste of money which is neither a deterrent nor ever going to be used.
I question if we even really have any.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We don't ever want it to be used. And of course it is a deterrent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only reason we weren’t over run in World war 2 was because we are an island and we had the Dowding system. That system allowed us to have planes in the air before the luftwaffe could bomb our runways and prevent us from taking off. It spooked Hitler enough to turn his attention away from us and instead make the fatal error of focusing on Russia in the winter.
Our Nuclear ability is our current Dowding system - it’s what will stop other fascist regimes in their tracks and pause for thought.
Getting rid of it is the single most stupid thing I have ever heard a politician say - political suicide and he was unelectable from that moment onwards. No one in this country wants to be in Ukraines position where they have to send their sons off to war
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Britain uses its Nuke, we’re already all dead.
I’d get rid of it tomorrow.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not about using them, it’s the fact we have the capacity to use them.
Putin knows this and despite all his bluff, he isn’t risking Moscow and St Petersburg being reduced to a smouldering radioactive wasteland.
That’s the deterrent - the thought of what we could do with them.
It’s why the Israelis won’t actually go to war with Iran and vice versa, they have proxy wars instead - both sides are scared of the others nuclear capability
posted on 7/11/24
It seems to me that most of the countries that send their sons off to war are nuclear capable countries whereas most that don't send their sons off to war are not nuclear capable.
posted on 7/11/24
Ok well I think you’re grossly exaggerating Britain’s importance, but whatever.
Funny how the other 200 odd countries in the world manage perfectly well without $punking billions of pounds on pointless nukes, but WE obviously need them.
posted on 7/11/24
comment by Trump 2024, Make America Great Again (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
Many other politicians said worse things than contemplating Gett rid of trident and didn't suffer anywhere near what Corbyn suffered.
It wasn't policies like that that made the media and the rich gang up to slander his name. It was his economic and social outlook that made him unacceptable to the wealthy class and using their media they convinced the common man to focus on nonsense like Trident, allowing the Tories to run through on goal and absolutely rip the country a new ass hole and leave tax payers paying for everything in their wake.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure but your average man on the street had spent the previous decade hearing about the war on terror and this chap called Putin. Then along comes Jeremy from Islington saying we should get rid of our nuclear deterrent - completely unelectable at that moment regardless of any other policy.
This country knows the sacrifice of war, parents aren’t sending their kids off to fight one when we all we need to prevent it is Trident
posted on 7/11/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 minutes ago
But their absolute biggest mistake, was alienating their traditional voter base - they lost blue collar America and by labelling all those people as racist and fascist they will continue to do so. They need to wise up, be a little more cunning, a little more ruthless and learn the fundamental errors of this epic faaaack up
------------------------------------------------------
The same phenomenon is happening in pretty much every mature democracy, and different sets of tactics seem to have no real impact on the growing support for right-wing populism. Even when mainstream parties massively pander to those populist policies in an attempt to outflank them. It's a much more complex and structural phenomenon than abandoning the working class or talking down to it. Democrat policies are much more orientated toward improving the material conditions, financial security, etc. of the working class than Trump's. And if you look at the breakdown of support by income, Democrats are still doing much better with voters earning less than $50k than they are with voters earning $50-100k.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But they don’t feel like they are - as per the polls. Perspective will win every single time.
You can’t run a campaign on faaacking “Joy” when the majority of the populace is not sensing joy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And if she ran on dark, apocalyptic notes like Trump, she would fail to out-MAGA Trump with the Republican base, while massively alienating key parts of the Democratic coalition, which include tens of millions of college-educated, liberal voters and working class black voters who want to feel someone represents their interests against racism. If there was a simple answer to this conundrum, someone would have run with it and galvanized the support of all those disparate groups with different economic interests and cultural priorities.
The fact is, the international phenomenon of high inflation has resulted in nearly every incumbent government facing a general election over the last year or two losing power (where elections are genuinely free and competitive). In many cases with historically heavy defeats. Kamala Harris's defeat represents a much smaller margin of loss and much smaller drop in support relative to that international trend.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
She could have won if she had run on the policies she did whilst also addressing the Democrats short comings during the previous term. Specifically what was she going to do about Israel - she polled terribly with Arab Americans. What was she going to do about aid to Ukraine?
As terrible as it sounds - those two points along with the economy and immigration far out weighed the abortion laws in the minds of Americans. But she and the Dems should have known that, the country was built originally on fundamental Christianity - basically a load of people thinking they shouldn’t be pregnant outside of marriage.
But the Dems didn’t want to engage in the topics that the majority of Americans wanted to engage on and so Trump with at times mindless rhetoric won that portion of the vote because he had engaged.
So many errors from the Dems this time round - they have to stop pointing at what they see as the opposition and blaming them and instead think how do we win in 2028, how can we be better
posted on 7/11/24
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 43 seconds ago
comment by Trump 2024, Make America Great Again(U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
Many other politicians said worse things than contemplating Gett rid of trident and didn't suffer anywhere near what Corbyn suffered.
It wasn't policies like that that made the media and the rich gang up to slander his name. It was his economic and social outlook that made him unacceptable to the wealthy class and using their media they convinced the common man to focus on nonsense like Trident, allowing the Tories to run through on goal and absolutely rip the country a new ass hole and leave tax payers paying for everything in their wake.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure but your average man on the street had spent the previous decade hearing about the war on terror and this chap called Putin. Then along comes Jeremy from Islington saying we should get rid of our nuclear deterrent - completely unelectable at that moment regardless of any other policy.
This country knows the sacrifice of war, parents aren’t sending their kids off to fight one when we all we need to prevent it is Trident
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fack off. Boris Johnson got drugged at some Russian agent's party and was found wondering the streets dazed and confused and still became PM.
You're also missing a lot of context in saying he wanted to get rid of trident. He refused to say that he thought trident was relevant but said that Labour was committed to renewing trident and the party was committed to trident.
All politicians say crazy things, especially in this day and age. They just latched on to some things and used the media machine to get the geniuses to vote as required. His economic and social policies were good enough to overlook such trivialities IMO, but people were scaremongered that Putin would invade if Corbyn got in when the truth is he just wasn't good for the business of the rich and corporates.
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