Excuse my ignorance but what exactly happened on that day and what new information has been revealed?
comment by oOg(O_o)nzOo²©®™ (U1023) posted 1 minute ago
Excuse my ignorance but what exactly happened on that day and what new information has been revealed?
----------------------
Are you being serious?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Dont worry I have looked it up.
Is it really that much trouble for everyone?
Og. Are you seriously moronic enough to expect someone on here to type up 5,000 words to convey what happend when there exists far more comprehensive and illustrated accounts.
No I am not, I genuinely just asked for a brief explanation...
Sorry if its got everyone so irked.
Og - you can go away now.
Ok, the next time you have such queries, if it is not too much trouble for YOU, instead of making an idiot of yourself on here please make that your first port of call.
I just want to say if someone genuinely asked me that I would not have any trouble explaining it, rather than make arrogant comments.
Og just leave now, and if this is an attempt at a Wum over a very sensitive issue, you should be ashamed of yourself.
What is '"justice" in this scenario?
Will justice involve tracking down and prosecuting every fan there who hadn't a ticket? Will they be prosecuted to the full extent of the law? What of those fans with tickets who ran down and pushed to get into the pens; will their boisterousness be deemed criminally negligent? Let's not pretend otherwise; a crush can't happen without someone pushing someone else hard, or did the SYP do that too?
What IS justice, and how does it apply here?
Don't get me wrong; the cover-ups of the failings of the SYP are abhorrent, as were the smears and streams of misinformation perpetuated about the tragedy at the time, but why is it that the only people the baying masses are now wanting to hold to account are officials, whilst the people who actually rocked up ticketless and the ones who DID push against the man in front with no thought to the eventual consequences are excused their behaviour on that day?
I think people are quick to judge the tactics as employed on that day but are guilty of judging them by today's standards; let's not forget this was a time of huge amounts of public disorder by football fans.. was Heysel someone else's fault too? This was only four years after Liverpool fans had caused that disaster, so the tactics and attitude of the police back then should reflect those times, not todays.
There's no 'magic' resolution here, no one person who made a mistake. The police made mistakes, sure, but then so did the Liverpool fans who thought then, as they do now, that pitching up without a ticket is a jolly wheeze and 'to be expected'. They are responsible for their behaviour that day, not the SYP.
This issue is not an occasion for buck-passing or passing blame. It was reprehensible, the cover-up.
But this is smacking of dare i say it, 'victim mentality'. Perhaps, this draws the line on the issue and not forever dragging on.
Truth? Apology? Justice...Indemnification? Where does it stop?
But this is smacking of dare i say it, 'victim mentality'.
===
How dare someone who is a VICTIM act like a VICTIM
Shame on them.
666
Well said, mirrors my sentiments pretty much entirely.
Blame needs to be proportioned - putting it entirely at the feet of SYP is plain wrong.
Hoons (U5327)
posted 14 seconds ago
666
Well said, mirrors my sentiments pretty much entirely.
Blame needs to be proportioned - putting it entirely at the feet of SYP is plain wrong.
==
That's factually incorrect.
comment by Javier-Stevie&Aquilani (U7411)
posted 1 minute ago
Hoons (U5327)
posted 14 seconds ago
666
Well said, mirrors my sentiments pretty much entirely.
Blame needs to be proportioned - putting it entirely at the feet of SYP is plain wrong.
==
That's factually incorrect.
_______________________________________________________
If you wish to engage in debate, then attempt to at least explain your abrupt statement. Otherwise, you're just a WUM and deserve to be ignored
Hoons
You said (back in April) that some Liverpool fans think the world revolves around them and they think we deserve special treatment.
Still believe that? And why?
666: Unfiltered (U11795)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Javier-Stevie&Aquilani (U7411)
posted 1 minute ago
Hoons (U5327)
posted 14 seconds ago
666
Well said, mirrors my sentiments pretty much entirely.
Blame needs to be proportioned - putting it entirely at the feet of SYP is plain wrong.
==
That's factually incorrect.
_______________________________________________________
If you wish to engage in debate, then attempt to at least explain your abrupt statement. Otherwise, you're just a WUM and deserve to be ignored
=
The blame has not been placed solely at the feet of SYP and that is why that statement is factually incorrect. I like engaging in debate but whether you like it or not it won't be with you. You're comments make it abundantly clear to me that you aren't the sort of person that can approach this issue with any acceptable level of compassion or balance.
I've been perfectly fair with my comments, but my question remains: What IS justice in this case?
That's not an opinion, Son, it's a question.
Oh, and it's 'your'
Don't call me son. Feel free to continue making faces in the dark.
To be fair to 666, the sentiments expressed in his initial comment are, I believe, shared by many.
So, in conclusion, you ARE just a WUM with nothing to add to a debate that is clearly beyond your comprehension and literacy levels.
Never changed my opinion of why I was refused entry to a pub at our end of the ground because there were Liverpool fans in it. Never changed my opinion of people clambering over a wall to get in. If they had a ticket, why did they do that? That wall could of collapsed and killed many outside of the ground.
As for tarring all SYP with the same brush ; as I walked upto the ground I had my ticket checked twice and I was searched at the gate. No crushing at our end. No one late for the game at our end. It was 2.00pm and our end was filling up nice and orderly.
I agree that the gates must of been opened at the Leppings Lane end. I do not agree that just because 164 police witnesses had had their statements changed that they are to blame. If I didn't know that my statement had been changed by a lawyer I would be non the wiser.
A cover up took place and now this has been exposed. As for bringing someone to account now? Isn't the person responsible for ordering the opening the gate dead? I may stand corrected on that one. Just something I think has been mentioned.
I have nothing against those that were there with tickets.
RIP the 96
So you are happy to converse with an obvious WUM but can't find the time for someone wanting a genuine conversation on the subject.
Sign in if you want to comment
Hillsborough .... Truth.... Now justice??
Page 1 of 9
6 | 7 | 8 | 9
posted on 13/9/12
Excuse my ignorance but what exactly happened on that day and what new information has been revealed?
posted on 13/9/12
comment by oOg(O_o)nzOo²©®™ (U1023) posted 1 minute ago
Excuse my ignorance but what exactly happened on that day and what new information has been revealed?
----------------------
Are you being serious?
posted on 13/9/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 13/9/12
Dont worry I have looked it up.
Is it really that much trouble for everyone?
posted on 13/9/12
Og. Are you seriously moronic enough to expect someone on here to type up 5,000 words to convey what happend when there exists far more comprehensive and illustrated accounts.
posted on 13/9/12
No I am not, I genuinely just asked for a brief explanation...
Sorry if its got everyone so irked.
posted on 13/9/12
Og - you can go away now.
posted on 13/9/12
Ok, the next time you have such queries, if it is not too much trouble for YOU, instead of making an idiot of yourself on here please make that your first port of call.
posted on 13/9/12
I just want to say if someone genuinely asked me that I would not have any trouble explaining it, rather than make arrogant comments.
posted on 13/9/12
Og just leave now, and if this is an attempt at a Wum over a very sensitive issue, you should be ashamed of yourself.
posted on 13/9/12
What is '"justice" in this scenario?
Will justice involve tracking down and prosecuting every fan there who hadn't a ticket? Will they be prosecuted to the full extent of the law? What of those fans with tickets who ran down and pushed to get into the pens; will their boisterousness be deemed criminally negligent? Let's not pretend otherwise; a crush can't happen without someone pushing someone else hard, or did the SYP do that too?
What IS justice, and how does it apply here?
Don't get me wrong; the cover-ups of the failings of the SYP are abhorrent, as were the smears and streams of misinformation perpetuated about the tragedy at the time, but why is it that the only people the baying masses are now wanting to hold to account are officials, whilst the people who actually rocked up ticketless and the ones who DID push against the man in front with no thought to the eventual consequences are excused their behaviour on that day?
I think people are quick to judge the tactics as employed on that day but are guilty of judging them by today's standards; let's not forget this was a time of huge amounts of public disorder by football fans.. was Heysel someone else's fault too? This was only four years after Liverpool fans had caused that disaster, so the tactics and attitude of the police back then should reflect those times, not todays.
There's no 'magic' resolution here, no one person who made a mistake. The police made mistakes, sure, but then so did the Liverpool fans who thought then, as they do now, that pitching up without a ticket is a jolly wheeze and 'to be expected'. They are responsible for their behaviour that day, not the SYP.
posted on 13/9/12
is it Og, or Ugh!
posted on 13/9/12
This issue is not an occasion for buck-passing or passing blame. It was reprehensible, the cover-up.
But this is smacking of dare i say it, 'victim mentality'. Perhaps, this draws the line on the issue and not forever dragging on.
Truth? Apology? Justice...Indemnification? Where does it stop?
posted on 13/9/12
But this is smacking of dare i say it, 'victim mentality'.
===
How dare someone who is a VICTIM act like a VICTIM
Shame on them.
posted on 13/9/12
666
Well said, mirrors my sentiments pretty much entirely.
Blame needs to be proportioned - putting it entirely at the feet of SYP is plain wrong.
posted on 13/9/12
Hoons (U5327)
posted 14 seconds ago
666
Well said, mirrors my sentiments pretty much entirely.
Blame needs to be proportioned - putting it entirely at the feet of SYP is plain wrong.
==
That's factually incorrect.
posted on 13/9/12
comment by Javier-Stevie&Aquilani (U7411)
posted 1 minute ago
Hoons (U5327)
posted 14 seconds ago
666
Well said, mirrors my sentiments pretty much entirely.
Blame needs to be proportioned - putting it entirely at the feet of SYP is plain wrong.
==
That's factually incorrect.
_______________________________________________________
If you wish to engage in debate, then attempt to at least explain your abrupt statement. Otherwise, you're just a WUM and deserve to be ignored
posted on 13/9/12
Hoons
You said (back in April) that some Liverpool fans think the world revolves around them and they think we deserve special treatment.
Still believe that? And why?
posted on 13/9/12
666: Unfiltered (U11795)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Javier-Stevie&Aquilani (U7411)
posted 1 minute ago
Hoons (U5327)
posted 14 seconds ago
666
Well said, mirrors my sentiments pretty much entirely.
Blame needs to be proportioned - putting it entirely at the feet of SYP is plain wrong.
==
That's factually incorrect.
_______________________________________________________
If you wish to engage in debate, then attempt to at least explain your abrupt statement. Otherwise, you're just a WUM and deserve to be ignored
=
The blame has not been placed solely at the feet of SYP and that is why that statement is factually incorrect. I like engaging in debate but whether you like it or not it won't be with you. You're comments make it abundantly clear to me that you aren't the sort of person that can approach this issue with any acceptable level of compassion or balance.
posted on 13/9/12
I've been perfectly fair with my comments, but my question remains: What IS justice in this case?
That's not an opinion, Son, it's a question.
Oh, and it's 'your'
posted on 13/9/12
Don't call me son. Feel free to continue making faces in the dark.
posted on 13/9/12
To be fair to 666, the sentiments expressed in his initial comment are, I believe, shared by many.
posted on 13/9/12
So, in conclusion, you ARE just a WUM with nothing to add to a debate that is clearly beyond your comprehension and literacy levels.
posted on 13/9/12
Never changed my opinion of why I was refused entry to a pub at our end of the ground because there were Liverpool fans in it. Never changed my opinion of people clambering over a wall to get in. If they had a ticket, why did they do that? That wall could of collapsed and killed many outside of the ground.
As for tarring all SYP with the same brush ; as I walked upto the ground I had my ticket checked twice and I was searched at the gate. No crushing at our end. No one late for the game at our end. It was 2.00pm and our end was filling up nice and orderly.
I agree that the gates must of been opened at the Leppings Lane end. I do not agree that just because 164 police witnesses had had their statements changed that they are to blame. If I didn't know that my statement had been changed by a lawyer I would be non the wiser.
A cover up took place and now this has been exposed. As for bringing someone to account now? Isn't the person responsible for ordering the opening the gate dead? I may stand corrected on that one. Just something I think has been mentioned.
I have nothing against those that were there with tickets.
RIP the 96
posted on 13/9/12
So you are happy to converse with an obvious WUM but can't find the time for someone wanting a genuine conversation on the subject.
Page 1 of 9
6 | 7 | 8 | 9