comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 4 minutes ago
well know strong presence of neo-nazis in ukraine, especially the donbass...

many of the ukrainian armed forces have neo-nazi leanings


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And, of course, despite being of a country with widespread and very serious institutional racism, there are no soldiers in the Russian army with neo-Nazi leanings...

Maybe go look up the Russian National Unity party and their views and messaging. The very leader of the party, Alexander Barkashov, has been fighting alongside the Russian separatists in Donbas.

Here's a lovely photo of Barkashov:

https://images.app.goo.gl/y4VbGfEQCDxv6vaq5

Here's a lovely photo of his Russian National Unity crew, all decked out and ready for action:

https://images.app.goo.gl/RPq9YuHHVAG9FHZL9

Dmitry Demushkin, another far right racist lunatic, has (amongst others) alleged that Putin's hierarchy contacted him to ask him to gather nationalists to fight in Donbas in 2014.

The idea that the Ukranian military is full of neo-Nazis, whilst the Russian nationalists fighting in Donbas and the Russian military are a bunch of liberals is utter bullshiiiiit.

https://www.dw.com/en/why-are-german-neo-nazis-training-in-russia/a-53702613

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/democracy-post/wp/2017/08/22/americas-neo-nazis-dont-look-to-germany-for-inspiration-they-look-to-russia/

comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 15 minutes ago
I wonder if we will help with Ukrainian refugees? It will look a little different than previous refugee intake, more women and children this time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason why most seeking asylum are men, is that the fitter (ie men) tend to travel first.

comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 46 minutes ago
There are people who are genuinely trying to use Russia's invasion, to make completely unrelated points on other things, like gender for instance. And who are sincere about it.

Then there are people who all seem to use the same joke, over and over. It's a little hard to see the difference between the difference people at times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Facking sad innit
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I think there is something to be said about perhaps our arrogance in the west that after the Cold War everyone wanted western lifestyle and perhaps we did take our eye off the ball with some pretty ridiculous stuff whilst Putin and China too have been making serious moves that pointed towards this kind of outcome. Yet what dominated our lives over the past few years has been anti-racism, anti-capitalism, excesses of capitalism (banking really if we’re honest), tax the rich and identity politics. I think you could argue that this is pretty ridiculous given that we agreed to protect Ukraine when they gave up their nuclear weapons in 1994. Or the Crimean Crisis in 2014.

In 2019 a poll said that 70% of Russians believed that Stalin played a positive role in their country’s history. Was he that popular in the early 2000s? I haven’t researched but I highly doubt it.

Obviously the gender neutral toilets reference is an exaggeration used for humour but the serious point that perhaps lurks behind that meme that I saw is that we perhaps took our eyes off the ball and thought the world was different to how it actually still is.

I’m guilty of this, I didn’t think Putin would actually go all Soviet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is that comment defeats that kind of point you are making. It's turning an international crisis into a culture war talking point. It's a distraction from the crisis itself.

And the other thing is that I am glad we do live in a society with our politics, and not the politics of Russia or China. We probably have been distracted by domestic politics recently, but everyone across the political spectrum is responsible for this.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can take it like that and frame it like that if you want but that not what’s happening.

At most, it’s a proposed lesson to learn that perhaps our priorities are all fked up by focusing more on those items rather than much more serious matters like controlling people like Putin.

It’s the media’s fault also, the hyper focus on the social justice religion in the past 5-7 years is completely out of whack with what should be focused on.

China & HK in 2020 for example, yet the entire western world flipped out over George Floyd’s murder instead.

China & HK in 2020 for example, yet the entire western world flipped out over George Floyd’s murder instead.
———-

You don’t believe systemic racism exists in the US so you would say that

comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by 🇺🇦 Boris 'Inky' Gibson 🇺🇦 (U5901)
posted 3 minutes ago
Champions League Final moved to Paris.

Well done Macron
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Handy for Chelsea and city, bud.
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Should've been moved to London, pretty much a given there will be two English teams in it.

comment by Robbb Kanchelskis (U22716)
posted 7 minutes ago
China & HK in 2020 for example, yet the entire western world flipped out over George Floyd’s murder instead.
———-

You don’t believe systemic racism exists in the US so you would say that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t start a debate from two years ago Robb. Especially when you don’t know much about the topic.

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Robbb Kanchelskis (U22716)
posted 7 minutes ago
China & HK in 2020 for example, yet the entire western world flipped out over George Floyd’s murder instead.
———-

You don’t believe systemic racism exists in the US so you would say that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t start a debate from two years ago Robb. Especially when you don’t know much about the topic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

😂

1) You’re the one bringing up something from 2 years ago
2) Having read your opinions on it, or should I say the stuff you copy and pasted from Jordan Peterson and other idiot dullards, I wouldn’t think you know much about it at all.

comment by Robbb Kanchelskis (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Robbb Kanchelskis (U22716)
posted 7 minutes ago
China & HK in 2020 for example, yet the entire western world flipped out over George Floyd’s murder instead.
———-

You don’t believe systemic racism exists in the US so you would say that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t start a debate from two years ago Robb. Especially when you don’t know much about the topic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

😂

1) You’re the one bringing up something from 2 years ago
2) Having read your opinions on it, or should I say the stuff you copy and pasted from Jordan Peterson and other idiot dullards, I wouldn’t think you know much about it at all.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cool story bro.

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Kanchelskis (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Robbb Kanchelskis (U22716)
posted 7 minutes ago
China & HK in 2020 for example, yet the entire western world flipped out over George Floyd’s murder instead.
———-

You don’t believe systemic racism exists in the US so you would say that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t start a debate from two years ago Robb. Especially when you don’t know much about the topic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

😂

1) You’re the one bringing up something from 2 years ago
2) Having read your opinions on it, or should I say the stuff you copy and pasted from Jordan Peterson and other idiot dullards, I wouldn’t think you know much about it at all.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cool story bro.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

That’s the spirit 👍

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 46 minutes ago
There are people who are genuinely trying to use Russia's invasion, to make completely unrelated points on other things, like gender for instance. And who are sincere about it.

Then there are people who all seem to use the same joke, over and over. It's a little hard to see the difference between the difference people at times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Facking sad innit
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I think there is something to be said about perhaps our arrogance in the west that after the Cold War everyone wanted western lifestyle and perhaps we did take our eye off the ball with some pretty ridiculous stuff whilst Putin and China too have been making serious moves that pointed towards this kind of outcome. Yet what dominated our lives over the past few years has been anti-racism, anti-capitalism, excesses of capitalism (banking really if we’re honest), tax the rich and identity politics. I think you could argue that this is pretty ridiculous given that we agreed to protect Ukraine when they gave up their nuclear weapons in 1994. Or the Crimean Crisis in 2014.

In 2019 a poll said that 70% of Russians believed that Stalin played a positive role in their country’s history. Was he that popular in the early 2000s? I haven’t researched but I highly doubt it.

Obviously the gender neutral toilets reference is an exaggeration used for humour but the serious point that perhaps lurks behind that meme that I saw is that we perhaps took our eyes off the ball and thought the world was different to how it actually still is.

I’m guilty of this, I didn’t think Putin would actually go all Soviet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is that comment defeats that kind of point you are making. It's turning an international crisis into a culture war talking point. It's a distraction from the crisis itself.

And the other thing is that I am glad we do live in a society with our politics, and not the politics of Russia or China. We probably have been distracted by domestic politics recently, but everyone across the political spectrum is responsible for this.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can take it like that and frame it like that if you want but that not what’s happening.

At most, it’s a proposed lesson to learn that perhaps our priorities are all fked up by focusing more on those items rather than much more serious matters like controlling people like Putin.

It’s the media’s fault also, the hyper focus on the social justice religion in the past 5-7 years is completely out of whack with what should be focused on.

China & HK in 2020 for example, yet the entire western world flipped out over George Floyd’s murder instead.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, conservatives are no more enlightened on these issues than the left tbh. In fact, due to Russian influence they have been directly complicit really.

comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 46 minutes ago
There are people who are genuinely trying to use Russia's invasion, to make completely unrelated points on other things, like gender for instance. And who are sincere about it.

Then there are people who all seem to use the same joke, over and over. It's a little hard to see the difference between the difference people at times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Facking sad innit
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I think there is something to be said about perhaps our arrogance in the west that after the Cold War everyone wanted western lifestyle and perhaps we did take our eye off the ball with some pretty ridiculous stuff whilst Putin and China too have been making serious moves that pointed towards this kind of outcome. Yet what dominated our lives over the past few years has been anti-racism, anti-capitalism, excesses of capitalism (banking really if we’re honest), tax the rich and identity politics. I think you could argue that this is pretty ridiculous given that we agreed to protect Ukraine when they gave up their nuclear weapons in 1994. Or the Crimean Crisis in 2014.

In 2019 a poll said that 70% of Russians believed that Stalin played a positive role in their country’s history. Was he that popular in the early 2000s? I haven’t researched but I highly doubt it.

Obviously the gender neutral toilets reference is an exaggeration used for humour but the serious point that perhaps lurks behind that meme that I saw is that we perhaps took our eyes off the ball and thought the world was different to how it actually still is.

I’m guilty of this, I didn’t think Putin would actually go all Soviet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is that comment defeats that kind of point you are making. It's turning an international crisis into a culture war talking point. It's a distraction from the crisis itself.

And the other thing is that I am glad we do live in a society with our politics, and not the politics of Russia or China. We probably have been distracted by domestic politics recently, but everyone across the political spectrum is responsible for this.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can take it like that and frame it like that if you want but that not what’s happening.

At most, it’s a proposed lesson to learn that perhaps our priorities are all fked up by focusing more on those items rather than much more serious matters like controlling people like Putin.

It’s the media’s fault also, the hyper focus on the social justice religion in the past 5-7 years is completely out of whack with what should be focused on.

China & HK in 2020 for example, yet the entire western world flipped out over George Floyd’s murder instead.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, conservatives are no more enlightened on these issues than the left tbh. In fact, due to Russian influence they have been directly complicit really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yawn

Bringing up the death of George Floyd as something we’ve been distracted by on the day the other 3 are found guilty of not helping/stopping Chauvin

comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 46 minutes ago
There are people who are genuinely trying to use Russia's invasion, to make completely unrelated points on other things, like gender for instance. And who are sincere about it.

Then there are people who all seem to use the same joke, over and over. It's a little hard to see the difference between the difference people at times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Facking sad innit
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I think there is something to be said about perhaps our arrogance in the west that after the Cold War everyone wanted western lifestyle and perhaps we did take our eye off the ball with some pretty ridiculous stuff whilst Putin and China too have been making serious moves that pointed towards this kind of outcome. Yet what dominated our lives over the past few years has been anti-racism, anti-capitalism, excesses of capitalism (banking really if we’re honest), tax the rich and identity politics. I think you could argue that this is pretty ridiculous given that we agreed to protect Ukraine when they gave up their nuclear weapons in 1994. Or the Crimean Crisis in 2014.

In 2019 a poll said that 70% of Russians believed that Stalin played a positive role in their country’s history. Was he that popular in the early 2000s? I haven’t researched but I highly doubt it.

Obviously the gender neutral toilets reference is an exaggeration used for humour but the serious point that perhaps lurks behind that meme that I saw is that we perhaps took our eyes off the ball and thought the world was different to how it actually still is.

I’m guilty of this, I didn’t think Putin would actually go all Soviet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is that comment defeats that kind of point you are making. It's turning an international crisis into a culture war talking point. It's a distraction from the crisis itself.

And the other thing is that I am glad we do live in a society with our politics, and not the politics of Russia or China. We probably have been distracted by domestic politics recently, but everyone across the political spectrum is responsible for this.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can take it like that and frame it like that if you want but that not what’s happening.

At most, it’s a proposed lesson to learn that perhaps our priorities are all fked up by focusing more on those items rather than much more serious matters like controlling people like Putin.

It’s the media’s fault also, the hyper focus on the social justice religion in the past 5-7 years is completely out of whack with what should be focused on.

China & HK in 2020 for example, yet the entire western world flipped out over George Floyd’s murder instead.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, conservatives are no more enlightened on these issues than the left tbh. In fact, due to Russian influence they have been directly complicit really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not coming at this from a left/right angle.

It’s just about priorities for me and I think the SJ obsession is way out of whack when compared to scenarios that we’ve allowed to happen.

Everyone has allowed this to take place and it comes down to money as pretty much everything does. We are too dependent on Russia so we’ve been weak with Putin. Yet when it came to social justice, I wouldn’t exactly class the reaction as weak.

comment by Robbb Kanchelskis (U22716)
posted 2 hours, 36 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
I do not see any relationship whatsoever between campaigns for social justice and equity in the West, and its governments’ readiness or willingness to defend Ukraine against the Russians.

Can someone explain how the two can be connected please? Because to me, the first appears to have absolutely zero influence on the second.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It's just a sneaky way of conservatives blaming the left for Putin.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it isn’t. It’s a comment on focusing on the wrong things. That’s all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why is it one or the other? Also it’s not as if focus has been on social justice and improving society for all, irrespective or race, gender or sexuality and Russia has snuck up on us catching us off guard. The threat of Russia and what it could do has been well known for years.

Unless this is a lament of the Conservatives who trot out phrases like “woke” and “culture wars” whilst giving golden visas to Oligarchs and accepting £2m in donations from Russians.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You do recall that the current tiered visa system was set up under the last Labour government.

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Robbb Kanchelskis (U22716)
posted 7 minutes ago
China & HK in 2020 for example, yet the entire western world flipped out over George Floyd’s murder instead.
———-

You don’t believe systemic racism exists in the US so you would say that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t start a debate from two years ago Robb. Especially when you don’t know much about the topic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From the person who started the day talking about gender neutral bathrooms 🎣 😜

Looks like Russia might be struggling with its military objectives, and have been unexpected by the scale of the Ukrainian resistance.

May well be disinformation, as right now a lot of unreliable information is flying around.

It will be good if true though

comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 34 seconds ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 10 seconds ago
I wonder if we will help with Ukrainian refugees? It will look a little different than previous refugee intake, more women and children this time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Many going to Russia, others to Poland.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Russia??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes Russia, thats the point the East they really do feel like they are Russian, 700,000 applied and received Russian passports a couple of year ago.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Looks like Russia might be struggling with its military objectives, and have been unexpected by the scale of the Ukrainian resistance.

May well be disinformation, as right now a lot of unreliable information is flying around.

It will be good if true though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't want to post it earlier as I thought it might be wishful thinking, but I was thinking this too.

Now to get people's backs up... we need to give Putin a face saving solution... no, no, no, I'm not on Putin's side, I don't think he is right in invading, but he ain't going to go without something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He needs a cup full of novichok.

comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Looks like Russia might be struggling with its military objectives, and have been unexpected by the scale of the Ukrainian resistance.

May well be disinformation, as right now a lot of unreliable information is flying around.

It will be good if true though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Putin needs this done (by which I mean to achieve his objectives, whatever those might be) quickly, and with minimal bloodshed.

The longer this goes on, the more messy it will get, and given that it’s incredibly unlikely that Putin will want to draft or call up reservists, Ukraine has the potential to out-man, if not out-shoot, the Russians. Putin won’t want to be dragged into a messy street-by-street battle with Ukrainians who know the territory; ambushes, car bombings, and Russian soldiers being picked off by snipers.

You would imagine that the Russian public will not want to be hearing about casualties on either side or about global hostility towards their nation for weeks and months to come either, and surely the Kremlin has a degree of sensitivity to that. They can absolutely control the internal media narrative, but they won’t be able to prevent news leaking in from outside.

comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Looks like Russia might be struggling with its military objectives, and have been unexpected by the scale of the Ukrainian resistance.

May well be disinformation, as right now a lot of unreliable information is flying around.

It will be good if true though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't want to post it earlier as I thought it might be wishful thinking, but I was thinking this too.

Now to get people's backs up... we need to give Putin a face saving solution... no, no, no, I'm not on Putin's side, I don't think he is right in invading, but he ain't going to go without something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree entirely.

He needs putting back in his box, unceremoniously. There should be no compromise now.

comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 42 seconds ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Looks like Russia might be struggling with its military objectives, and have been unexpected by the scale of the Ukrainian resistance.

May well be disinformation, as right now a lot of unreliable information is flying around.

It will be good if true though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't want to post it earlier as I thought it might be wishful thinking, but I was thinking this too.

Now to get people's backs up... we need to give Putin a face saving solution... no, no, no, I'm not on Putin's side, I don't think he is right in invading, but he ain't going to go without something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He needs a cup full of novichok.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sure we've got our own poison we could use.

We let him have Crimea and I think we'll let him have the territories that have been at war with Ukraine for the past 8 years.

Face saving all round I hope.

He’s been given inch after inch after inch with Crimea, Donbas, digital assaults on Ukraine (and elsewhere), and the military buildup/bullshiiiit about exercises.

He has to know there’s a line, or he will just keep going.

comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 seconds ago
He’s been given inch after inch after inch with Crimea, Donbas, digital assaults on Ukraine (and elsewhere), and the military buildup/bullshiiiit about exercises.

He has to know there’s a line, or he will just keep going.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Very hard to take a hard line when he sends people over here to use nerve agents and polonium without much retaliation or recourse. Sat Nav keeps saying ‘we are weak’. It’s not us, it’s the politicians that are weak.