Sat nav:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not coming at this from a left/right angle.
It’s just about priorities for me and I think the SJ obsession is way out of whack when compared to scenarios that we’ve allowed to happen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I completely disagree, that you aren't approaching it from a left/right angle, look at the examples you gave, look in this same post you talk about "SJ obsession"
You haven't mentioned any of the right wing causes that have put us in this situation, such as austerity impacting the defence budget, cutting military personnel.. about russian money and its influence with the conservatives nor the biggest one: Brexit which has weakened us and Europe, and there were quite a lot of well documented ties between leave campaigns and russian money.
Germans are stingy, they don't want to pay for army when Americans can do it for them, and Americans spend enormous money in Germany and help their GDP.
That's what Germans are like. Small minded, stingy people who will rather live in humiliation but with full pockets than build their own forces.
They deliberately chose not to invest into military and that is why their economy is so strong (because they can concentrate money into other areas). They keep Americans for cheap.
I never understood glorification of Germany and "German values" by some slave minded easterners. They showed more than once they can't lead Europe.
Yes, I like Germany but that's the truth what your average Švabo is like.
They will fack in the ass to pay one Euro less. While that makes their economy excellent, such mentality will never make them great power, and that's well deserved.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Looks like Russia might be struggling with its military objectives, and have been unexpected by the scale of the Ukrainian resistance.
May well be disinformation, as right now a lot of unreliable information is flying around.
It will be good if true though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't want to post it earlier as I thought it might be wishful thinking, but I was thinking this too.
Now to get people's backs up... we need to give Putin a face saving solution... no, no, no, I'm not on Putin's side, I don't think he is right in invading, but he ain't going to go without something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree entirely.
He needs putting back in his box, unceremoniously. There should be no compromise now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this, or in a few years he will be at it again.
If Putin does not finish the job quickly, it can backfire and this could be his end. Every day of prolonged conflict will cost Russia enourmously. He took a large gamble with invasion, I didn't expect that.
But he obviously correctly estimated Ukrainian will and morale for fighting isn't remarkable.
People are fleeing the country like rats are fleeing the sinking ship, and it's not like they are endangered by Russian military, especially not in western Ukraine. That's what modern people are like.
But still, I would say Russian progress so far is not as great as they initially projected. We'll see what happens next.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
The sanctions absolutely had to start with the regime, the kleptocracy, Donbas and the banking system. Fair enough.
I understand why it hasn’t happened yet, but I’m starting to come around to the argument that if the first couple of waves aren’t having any material effect (and granted, they could be ramped up yet with wider asset seizures, for example), then the threat has to be to completely financial isolate and cripple the Russian economy.
Blanket external asset freezes, blanket travel bans, blanket banking isolation, blanket investment bans, blanket import/export bans.
Let the Russian people choose between Putin and expansionist militarism, and the ability to trade and prosper.
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Looks like Russia might be struggling with its military objectives, and have been unexpected by the scale of the Ukrainian resistance.
May well be disinformation, as right now a lot of unreliable information is flying around.
It will be good if true though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't want to post it earlier as I thought it might be wishful thinking, but I was thinking this too.
Now to get people's backs up... we need to give Putin a face saving solution... no, no, no, I'm not on Putin's side, I don't think he is right in invading, but he ain't going to go without something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree entirely.
He needs putting back in his box, unceremoniously. There should be no compromise now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this, or in a few years he will be at it again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tried that after WW1, it didn't work. WW2 a different approach was given and it worked.
Any deal works best when both parties feel they gained at the table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How will Ukraine gain via compromise?
Alex Wickham
@alexwickham
·
13h
Clear tonight that US and UK have led the (largely failed) attempt to go for the harshest measures against Russia but the EU rejected SWIFT proposal — contrary to uninformed twitter commentary from blue tick FBPE throughout the week. Something to remember.
^ Literally two days ago some of you were waanking over EU measures and hammering UK
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 1 minute ago
If Putin does not finish the job quickly, it can backfire and this could be his end. Every day of prolonged conflict will cost Russia enourmously. He took a large gamble with invasion, I didn't expect that.
But he obviously correctly estimated Ukrainian will and morale for fighting isn't remarkable.
People are fleeing the country like rats are fleeing the sinking ship, and it's not like they are endangered by Russian military, especially not in western Ukraine. That's what modern people are like.
But still, I would say Russian progress so far is not as great as they initially projected. We'll see what happens next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it really needed to describe those escaping warzones as fleeing like rats? Perhaps you should show some sympathy to those caught in these dire and horrible situations.
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 19 seconds ago
The sanctions absolutely had to start with the regime, the kleptocracy, Donbas and the banking system. Fair enough.
I understand why it hasn’t happened yet, but I’m starting to come around to the argument that if the first couple of waves aren’t having any material effect (and granted, they could be ramped up yet with wider asset seizures, for example), then the threat has to be to completely financial isolate and cripple the Russian economy.
Blanket external asset freezes, blanket travel bans, blanket banking isolation, blanket investment bans, blanket import/export bans.
Let the Russian people choose between Putin and expansionist militarism, and the ability to trade and prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
did the world put these sanctions on USA and it's vassal state Britain, after the Gulf War, Syria and Libya ?
Was that not expansionist militarism ?
When did the USA and Britain become such pacifists ?
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 4 minutes ago
If Putin does not finish the job quickly, it can backfire and this could be his end. Every day of prolonged conflict will cost Russia enourmously. He took a large gamble with invasion, I didn't expect that.
But he obviously correctly estimated Ukrainian will and morale for fighting isn't remarkable.
People are fleeing the country like rats are fleeing the sinking ship, and it's not like they are endangered by Russian military, especially not in western Ukraine. That's what modern people are like.
But still, I would say Russian progress so far is not as great as they initially projected. We'll see what happens next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Describing people fleeing war as rats is a class move. Take it you and your brother left Spain for the U.K. because of the weather and not for a better economic situation here compared to back home.
“People are fleeing the country like rats are fleeing the sinking ship, and it's not like they are endangered by Russian military”
130 people are dead already, for fack’s sake.
Fack my facking life, what is it with you?
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 4 minutes ago
If Putin does not finish the job quickly, it can backfire and this could be his end. Every day of prolonged conflict will cost Russia enourmously. He took a large gamble with invasion, I didn't expect that.
But he obviously correctly estimated Ukrainian will and morale for fighting isn't remarkable.
People are fleeing the country like rats are fleeing the sinking ship, and it's not like they are endangered by Russian military, especially not in western Ukraine. That's what modern people are like.
But still, I would say Russian progress so far is not as great as they initially projected. We'll see what happens next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Describing people fleeing war as rats is a class move. Take it you and your brother left Spain for the U.K. because of the weather and not for a better economic situation here compared to back home.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i was born in the UK My Dad is from Spain
I'm from Liverpool
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 19 seconds ago
The sanctions absolutely had to start with the regime, the kleptocracy, Donbas and the banking system. Fair enough.
I understand why it hasn’t happened yet, but I’m starting to come around to the argument that if the first couple of waves aren’t having any material effect (and granted, they could be ramped up yet with wider asset seizures, for example), then the threat has to be to completely financial isolate and cripple the Russian economy.
Blanket external asset freezes, blanket travel bans, blanket banking isolation, blanket investment bans, blanket import/export bans.
Let the Russian people choose between Putin and expansionist militarism, and the ability to trade and prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
did the world put these sanctions on USA and it's vassal state Britain, after the Gulf War, Syria and Libya ?
Was that not expansionist militarism ?
When did the USA and Britain become such pacifists ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, it was obviously not expansionist militarism.
We are talking about what is going on, right now. The US and UK’s prior crimes are irrelevant.
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Looks like Russia might be struggling with its military objectives, and have been unexpected by the scale of the Ukrainian resistance.
May well be disinformation, as right now a lot of unreliable information is flying around.
It will be good if true though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't want to post it earlier as I thought it might be wishful thinking, but I was thinking this too.
Now to get people's backs up... we need to give Putin a face saving solution... no, no, no, I'm not on Putin's side, I don't think he is right in invading, but he ain't going to go without something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree entirely.
He needs putting back in his box, unceremoniously. There should be no compromise now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this, or in a few years he will be at it again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tried that after WW1, it didn't work. WW2 a different approach was given and it worked.
Any deal works best when both parties feel they gained at the table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
After WWII worked?
The Cold War
Cuba Crisis
Current European disintegration and complete lack of solidarity with countries like Switzerland, Germany, Italy and India all self serving and frightened of a financial hit.
We could go on and on about the many conflicts.
I’m disgusted that we are so lily livered in sanctions and not putting significant armed forces all along NATO borders whilst arming the Ukraine to the teeth and “training” their military on an ongoing basis.
A lunatic like Putin knows his time is coming to an end and just wants to go down in history. It’s not his country. He should not be allowed to march into it and issue dire warnings of retaliation the likes of which we’ve never seen should we try and help a country in distress.
Fwcking pathetic.
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Looks like Russia might be struggling with its military objectives, and have been unexpected by the scale of the Ukrainian resistance.
May well be disinformation, as right now a lot of unreliable information is flying around.
It will be good if true though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't want to post it earlier as I thought it might be wishful thinking, but I was thinking this too.
Now to get people's backs up... we need to give Putin a face saving solution... no, no, no, I'm not on Putin's side, I don't think he is right in invading, but he ain't going to go without something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree entirely.
He needs putting back in his box, unceremoniously. There should be no compromise now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pragmatism is the only way forward. Putin will not go with his tail between his legs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So many experts on international affairs, geo political strategy and experienced military men on social media now, fighting Russia from their bedrooms and warm offices, lol.
"If only I had Putin in a room or I was in charge"...aye right 😂😂
Putting Putin and Russia in a box, but how so?
Join up and go fight???Spanish civil war volunteering comeback?
Nah, get some Brexit voting Tommy or republican redneck to go do the dirty work, then let them rot when they return home, or just do a Kabul or Iraq when it gets messy.
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 19 seconds ago
The sanctions absolutely had to start with the regime, the kleptocracy, Donbas and the banking system. Fair enough.
I understand why it hasn’t happened yet, but I’m starting to come around to the argument that if the first couple of waves aren’t having any material effect (and granted, they could be ramped up yet with wider asset seizures, for example), then the threat has to be to completely financial isolate and cripple the Russian economy.
Blanket external asset freezes, blanket travel bans, blanket banking isolation, blanket investment bans, blanket import/export bans.
Let the Russian people choose between Putin and expansionist militarism, and the ability to trade and prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
did the world put these sanctions on USA and it's vassal state Britain, after the Gulf War, Syria and Libya ?
Was that not expansionist militarism ?
When did the USA and Britain become such pacifists ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, it was obviously not expansionist militarism.
We are talking about what is going on, right now. The US and UK’s prior crimes are irrelevant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you know what western companies did in Iraq after the 2nd Gulf War , oil-for-food scandal ?
2nd Gulf War was absolutely expansionist
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
“Putting Putin and Russia in a box, but how so?”
There are a bunch of ways that could be achieved, with a will.
One, I think, is by threatening to cripple the Russian economy, which could be done without the Chinese support.
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Looks like Russia might be struggling with its military objectives, and have been unexpected by the scale of the Ukrainian resistance.
May well be disinformation, as right now a lot of unreliable information is flying around.
It will be good if true though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't want to post it earlier as I thought it might be wishful thinking, but I was thinking this too.
Now to get people's backs up... we need to give Putin a face saving solution... no, no, no, I'm not on Putin's side, I don't think he is right in invading, but he ain't going to go without something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree entirely.
He needs putting back in his box, unceremoniously. There should be no compromise now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this, or in a few years he will be at it again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tried that after WW1, it didn't work. WW2 a different approach was given and it worked.
Any deal works best when both parties feel they gained at the table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
After WWII worked?
The Cold War
Cuba Crisis
Current European disintegration and complete lack of solidarity with countries like Switzerland, Germany, Italy and India all self serving and frightened of a financial hit.
We could go on and on about the many conflicts.
I’m disgusted that we are so lily livered in sanctions and not putting significant armed forces all along NATO borders whilst arming the Ukraine to the teeth and “training” their military on an ongoing basis.
A lunatic like Putin knows his time is coming to an end and just wants to go down in history. It’s not his country. He should not be allowed to march into it and issue dire warnings of retaliation the likes of which we’ve never seen should we try and help a country in distress.
Fwcking pathetic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
current situation is the Cuban Missile crisis in reverse
this explains everything Putin is doing
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Looks like Russia might be struggling with its military objectives, and have been unexpected by the scale of the Ukrainian resistance.
May well be disinformation, as right now a lot of unreliable information is flying around.
It will be good if true though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't want to post it earlier as I thought it might be wishful thinking, but I was thinking this too.
Now to get people's backs up... we need to give Putin a face saving solution... no, no, no, I'm not on Putin's side, I don't think he is right in invading, but he ain't going to go without something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree entirely.
He needs putting back in his box, unceremoniously. There should be no compromise now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this, or in a few years he will be at it again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tried that after WW1, it didn't work. WW2 a different approach was given and it worked.
Any deal works best when both parties feel they gained at the table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How will Ukraine gain via compromise?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No more threat from Russia.
We all have a sneaky feeling Putin wants Ukraine in Russia, BUT he has repeatedly said it to do with NATO and separatists. Use the NATO part as the bargaining chip. Ukraine will not join NATO unless it has Russian approval. This way Putin will get something publicly and he can move the fool out of Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What?
The Ukraine is an independent country and should be free to join whatever defensive faction it likes, NATO especially.
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 19 seconds ago
The sanctions absolutely had to start with the regime, the kleptocracy, Donbas and the banking system. Fair enough.
I understand why it hasn’t happened yet, but I’m starting to come around to the argument that if the first couple of waves aren’t having any material effect (and granted, they could be ramped up yet with wider asset seizures, for example), then the threat has to be to completely financial isolate and cripple the Russian economy.
Blanket external asset freezes, blanket travel bans, blanket banking isolation, blanket investment bans, blanket import/export bans.
Let the Russian people choose between Putin and expansionist militarism, and the ability to trade and prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
did the world put these sanctions on USA and it's vassal state Britain, after the Gulf War, Syria and Libya ?
Was that not expansionist militarism ?
When did the USA and Britain become such pacifists ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, it was obviously not expansionist militarism.
We are talking about what is going on, right now. The US and UK’s prior crimes are irrelevant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No offence, but bookmarked.
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Looks like Russia might be struggling with its military objectives, and have been unexpected by the scale of the Ukrainian resistance.
May well be disinformation, as right now a lot of unreliable information is flying around.
It will be good if true though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't want to post it earlier as I thought it might be wishful thinking, but I was thinking this too.
Now to get people's backs up... we need to give Putin a face saving solution... no, no, no, I'm not on Putin's side, I don't think he is right in invading, but he ain't going to go without something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree entirely.
He needs putting back in his box, unceremoniously. There should be no compromise now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this, or in a few years he will be at it again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tried that after WW1, it didn't work. WW2 a different approach was given and it worked.
Any deal works best when both parties feel they gained at the table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How will Ukraine gain via compromise?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No more threat from Russia.
We all have a sneaky feeling Putin wants Ukraine in Russia, BUT he has repeatedly said it to do with NATO and separatists. Use the NATO part as the bargaining chip. Ukraine will not join NATO unless it has Russian approval. This way Putin will get something publicly and he can move the fool out of Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What?
The Ukraine is an independent country and should be free to join whatever defensive faction it likes, NATO especially.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
then in '62, Cuba should have been able to ally with USSR and have Nukes pointed at USA ?
this what has got Putin's back up
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
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Arguing w/strangers cause I'm lonely thread
Page 2449 of 4973
2450 | 2451 | 2452 | 2453 | 2454
posted on 25/2/22
Sat nav:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not coming at this from a left/right angle.
It’s just about priorities for me and I think the SJ obsession is way out of whack when compared to scenarios that we’ve allowed to happen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I completely disagree, that you aren't approaching it from a left/right angle, look at the examples you gave, look in this same post you talk about "SJ obsession"
You haven't mentioned any of the right wing causes that have put us in this situation, such as austerity impacting the defence budget, cutting military personnel.. about russian money and its influence with the conservatives nor the biggest one: Brexit which has weakened us and Europe, and there were quite a lot of well documented ties between leave campaigns and russian money.
posted on 25/2/22
Germans are stingy, they don't want to pay for army when Americans can do it for them, and Americans spend enormous money in Germany and help their GDP.
That's what Germans are like. Small minded, stingy people who will rather live in humiliation but with full pockets than build their own forces.
They deliberately chose not to invest into military and that is why their economy is so strong (because they can concentrate money into other areas). They keep Americans for cheap.
I never understood glorification of Germany and "German values" by some slave minded easterners. They showed more than once they can't lead Europe.
Yes, I like Germany but that's the truth what your average Švabo is like.
They will fack in the ass to pay one Euro less. While that makes their economy excellent, such mentality will never make them great power, and that's well deserved.
posted on 25/2/22
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 25/2/22
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Looks like Russia might be struggling with its military objectives, and have been unexpected by the scale of the Ukrainian resistance.
May well be disinformation, as right now a lot of unreliable information is flying around.
It will be good if true though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't want to post it earlier as I thought it might be wishful thinking, but I was thinking this too.
Now to get people's backs up... we need to give Putin a face saving solution... no, no, no, I'm not on Putin's side, I don't think he is right in invading, but he ain't going to go without something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree entirely.
He needs putting back in his box, unceremoniously. There should be no compromise now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this, or in a few years he will be at it again.
posted on 25/2/22
If Putin does not finish the job quickly, it can backfire and this could be his end. Every day of prolonged conflict will cost Russia enourmously. He took a large gamble with invasion, I didn't expect that.
But he obviously correctly estimated Ukrainian will and morale for fighting isn't remarkable.
People are fleeing the country like rats are fleeing the sinking ship, and it's not like they are endangered by Russian military, especially not in western Ukraine. That's what modern people are like.
But still, I would say Russian progress so far is not as great as they initially projected. We'll see what happens next.
posted on 25/2/22
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 25/2/22
The sanctions absolutely had to start with the regime, the kleptocracy, Donbas and the banking system. Fair enough.
I understand why it hasn’t happened yet, but I’m starting to come around to the argument that if the first couple of waves aren’t having any material effect (and granted, they could be ramped up yet with wider asset seizures, for example), then the threat has to be to completely financial isolate and cripple the Russian economy.
Blanket external asset freezes, blanket travel bans, blanket banking isolation, blanket investment bans, blanket import/export bans.
Let the Russian people choose between Putin and expansionist militarism, and the ability to trade and prosper.
posted on 25/2/22
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Looks like Russia might be struggling with its military objectives, and have been unexpected by the scale of the Ukrainian resistance.
May well be disinformation, as right now a lot of unreliable information is flying around.
It will be good if true though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't want to post it earlier as I thought it might be wishful thinking, but I was thinking this too.
Now to get people's backs up... we need to give Putin a face saving solution... no, no, no, I'm not on Putin's side, I don't think he is right in invading, but he ain't going to go without something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree entirely.
He needs putting back in his box, unceremoniously. There should be no compromise now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this, or in a few years he will be at it again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tried that after WW1, it didn't work. WW2 a different approach was given and it worked.
Any deal works best when both parties feel they gained at the table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How will Ukraine gain via compromise?
posted on 25/2/22
Alex Wickham
@alexwickham
·
13h
Clear tonight that US and UK have led the (largely failed) attempt to go for the harshest measures against Russia but the EU rejected SWIFT proposal — contrary to uninformed twitter commentary from blue tick FBPE throughout the week. Something to remember.
^ Literally two days ago some of you were waanking over EU measures and hammering UK
posted on 25/2/22
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 1 minute ago
If Putin does not finish the job quickly, it can backfire and this could be his end. Every day of prolonged conflict will cost Russia enourmously. He took a large gamble with invasion, I didn't expect that.
But he obviously correctly estimated Ukrainian will and morale for fighting isn't remarkable.
People are fleeing the country like rats are fleeing the sinking ship, and it's not like they are endangered by Russian military, especially not in western Ukraine. That's what modern people are like.
But still, I would say Russian progress so far is not as great as they initially projected. We'll see what happens next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it really needed to describe those escaping warzones as fleeing like rats? Perhaps you should show some sympathy to those caught in these dire and horrible situations.
posted on 25/2/22
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 19 seconds ago
The sanctions absolutely had to start with the regime, the kleptocracy, Donbas and the banking system. Fair enough.
I understand why it hasn’t happened yet, but I’m starting to come around to the argument that if the first couple of waves aren’t having any material effect (and granted, they could be ramped up yet with wider asset seizures, for example), then the threat has to be to completely financial isolate and cripple the Russian economy.
Blanket external asset freezes, blanket travel bans, blanket banking isolation, blanket investment bans, blanket import/export bans.
Let the Russian people choose between Putin and expansionist militarism, and the ability to trade and prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
did the world put these sanctions on USA and it's vassal state Britain, after the Gulf War, Syria and Libya ?
Was that not expansionist militarism ?
When did the USA and Britain become such pacifists ?
posted on 25/2/22
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 4 minutes ago
If Putin does not finish the job quickly, it can backfire and this could be his end. Every day of prolonged conflict will cost Russia enourmously. He took a large gamble with invasion, I didn't expect that.
But he obviously correctly estimated Ukrainian will and morale for fighting isn't remarkable.
People are fleeing the country like rats are fleeing the sinking ship, and it's not like they are endangered by Russian military, especially not in western Ukraine. That's what modern people are like.
But still, I would say Russian progress so far is not as great as they initially projected. We'll see what happens next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Describing people fleeing war as rats is a class move. Take it you and your brother left Spain for the U.K. because of the weather and not for a better economic situation here compared to back home.
posted on 25/2/22
“People are fleeing the country like rats are fleeing the sinking ship, and it's not like they are endangered by Russian military”
130 people are dead already, for fack’s sake.
Fack my facking life, what is it with you?
posted on 25/2/22
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 4 minutes ago
If Putin does not finish the job quickly, it can backfire and this could be his end. Every day of prolonged conflict will cost Russia enourmously. He took a large gamble with invasion, I didn't expect that.
But he obviously correctly estimated Ukrainian will and morale for fighting isn't remarkable.
People are fleeing the country like rats are fleeing the sinking ship, and it's not like they are endangered by Russian military, especially not in western Ukraine. That's what modern people are like.
But still, I would say Russian progress so far is not as great as they initially projected. We'll see what happens next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Describing people fleeing war as rats is a class move. Take it you and your brother left Spain for the U.K. because of the weather and not for a better economic situation here compared to back home.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i was born in the UK My Dad is from Spain
I'm from Liverpool
posted on 25/2/22
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 19 seconds ago
The sanctions absolutely had to start with the regime, the kleptocracy, Donbas and the banking system. Fair enough.
I understand why it hasn’t happened yet, but I’m starting to come around to the argument that if the first couple of waves aren’t having any material effect (and granted, they could be ramped up yet with wider asset seizures, for example), then the threat has to be to completely financial isolate and cripple the Russian economy.
Blanket external asset freezes, blanket travel bans, blanket banking isolation, blanket investment bans, blanket import/export bans.
Let the Russian people choose between Putin and expansionist militarism, and the ability to trade and prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
did the world put these sanctions on USA and it's vassal state Britain, after the Gulf War, Syria and Libya ?
Was that not expansionist militarism ?
When did the USA and Britain become such pacifists ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, it was obviously not expansionist militarism.
We are talking about what is going on, right now. The US and UK’s prior crimes are irrelevant.
posted on 25/2/22
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Looks like Russia might be struggling with its military objectives, and have been unexpected by the scale of the Ukrainian resistance.
May well be disinformation, as right now a lot of unreliable information is flying around.
It will be good if true though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't want to post it earlier as I thought it might be wishful thinking, but I was thinking this too.
Now to get people's backs up... we need to give Putin a face saving solution... no, no, no, I'm not on Putin's side, I don't think he is right in invading, but he ain't going to go without something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree entirely.
He needs putting back in his box, unceremoniously. There should be no compromise now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this, or in a few years he will be at it again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tried that after WW1, it didn't work. WW2 a different approach was given and it worked.
Any deal works best when both parties feel they gained at the table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
After WWII worked?
The Cold War
Cuba Crisis
Current European disintegration and complete lack of solidarity with countries like Switzerland, Germany, Italy and India all self serving and frightened of a financial hit.
We could go on and on about the many conflicts.
I’m disgusted that we are so lily livered in sanctions and not putting significant armed forces all along NATO borders whilst arming the Ukraine to the teeth and “training” their military on an ongoing basis.
A lunatic like Putin knows his time is coming to an end and just wants to go down in history. It’s not his country. He should not be allowed to march into it and issue dire warnings of retaliation the likes of which we’ve never seen should we try and help a country in distress.
Fwcking pathetic.
posted on 25/2/22
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Looks like Russia might be struggling with its military objectives, and have been unexpected by the scale of the Ukrainian resistance.
May well be disinformation, as right now a lot of unreliable information is flying around.
It will be good if true though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't want to post it earlier as I thought it might be wishful thinking, but I was thinking this too.
Now to get people's backs up... we need to give Putin a face saving solution... no, no, no, I'm not on Putin's side, I don't think he is right in invading, but he ain't going to go without something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree entirely.
He needs putting back in his box, unceremoniously. There should be no compromise now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pragmatism is the only way forward. Putin will not go with his tail between his legs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So many experts on international affairs, geo political strategy and experienced military men on social media now, fighting Russia from their bedrooms and warm offices, lol.
"If only I had Putin in a room or I was in charge"...aye right 😂😂
Putting Putin and Russia in a box, but how so?
Join up and go fight???Spanish civil war volunteering comeback?
Nah, get some Brexit voting Tommy or republican redneck to go do the dirty work, then let them rot when they return home, or just do a Kabul or Iraq when it gets messy.
posted on 25/2/22
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 19 seconds ago
The sanctions absolutely had to start with the regime, the kleptocracy, Donbas and the banking system. Fair enough.
I understand why it hasn’t happened yet, but I’m starting to come around to the argument that if the first couple of waves aren’t having any material effect (and granted, they could be ramped up yet with wider asset seizures, for example), then the threat has to be to completely financial isolate and cripple the Russian economy.
Blanket external asset freezes, blanket travel bans, blanket banking isolation, blanket investment bans, blanket import/export bans.
Let the Russian people choose between Putin and expansionist militarism, and the ability to trade and prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
did the world put these sanctions on USA and it's vassal state Britain, after the Gulf War, Syria and Libya ?
Was that not expansionist militarism ?
When did the USA and Britain become such pacifists ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, it was obviously not expansionist militarism.
We are talking about what is going on, right now. The US and UK’s prior crimes are irrelevant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you know what western companies did in Iraq after the 2nd Gulf War , oil-for-food scandal ?
2nd Gulf War was absolutely expansionist
posted on 25/2/22
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 25/2/22
“Putting Putin and Russia in a box, but how so?”
There are a bunch of ways that could be achieved, with a will.
One, I think, is by threatening to cripple the Russian economy, which could be done without the Chinese support.
posted on 25/2/22
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Looks like Russia might be struggling with its military objectives, and have been unexpected by the scale of the Ukrainian resistance.
May well be disinformation, as right now a lot of unreliable information is flying around.
It will be good if true though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't want to post it earlier as I thought it might be wishful thinking, but I was thinking this too.
Now to get people's backs up... we need to give Putin a face saving solution... no, no, no, I'm not on Putin's side, I don't think he is right in invading, but he ain't going to go without something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree entirely.
He needs putting back in his box, unceremoniously. There should be no compromise now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this, or in a few years he will be at it again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tried that after WW1, it didn't work. WW2 a different approach was given and it worked.
Any deal works best when both parties feel they gained at the table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
After WWII worked?
The Cold War
Cuba Crisis
Current European disintegration and complete lack of solidarity with countries like Switzerland, Germany, Italy and India all self serving and frightened of a financial hit.
We could go on and on about the many conflicts.
I’m disgusted that we are so lily livered in sanctions and not putting significant armed forces all along NATO borders whilst arming the Ukraine to the teeth and “training” their military on an ongoing basis.
A lunatic like Putin knows his time is coming to an end and just wants to go down in history. It’s not his country. He should not be allowed to march into it and issue dire warnings of retaliation the likes of which we’ve never seen should we try and help a country in distress.
Fwcking pathetic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
current situation is the Cuban Missile crisis in reverse
this explains everything Putin is doing
posted on 25/2/22
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Looks like Russia might be struggling with its military objectives, and have been unexpected by the scale of the Ukrainian resistance.
May well be disinformation, as right now a lot of unreliable information is flying around.
It will be good if true though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't want to post it earlier as I thought it might be wishful thinking, but I was thinking this too.
Now to get people's backs up... we need to give Putin a face saving solution... no, no, no, I'm not on Putin's side, I don't think he is right in invading, but he ain't going to go without something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree entirely.
He needs putting back in his box, unceremoniously. There should be no compromise now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this, or in a few years he will be at it again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tried that after WW1, it didn't work. WW2 a different approach was given and it worked.
Any deal works best when both parties feel they gained at the table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How will Ukraine gain via compromise?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No more threat from Russia.
We all have a sneaky feeling Putin wants Ukraine in Russia, BUT he has repeatedly said it to do with NATO and separatists. Use the NATO part as the bargaining chip. Ukraine will not join NATO unless it has Russian approval. This way Putin will get something publicly and he can move the fool out of Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What?
The Ukraine is an independent country and should be free to join whatever defensive faction it likes, NATO especially.
posted on 25/2/22
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 19 seconds ago
The sanctions absolutely had to start with the regime, the kleptocracy, Donbas and the banking system. Fair enough.
I understand why it hasn’t happened yet, but I’m starting to come around to the argument that if the first couple of waves aren’t having any material effect (and granted, they could be ramped up yet with wider asset seizures, for example), then the threat has to be to completely financial isolate and cripple the Russian economy.
Blanket external asset freezes, blanket travel bans, blanket banking isolation, blanket investment bans, blanket import/export bans.
Let the Russian people choose between Putin and expansionist militarism, and the ability to trade and prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
did the world put these sanctions on USA and it's vassal state Britain, after the Gulf War, Syria and Libya ?
Was that not expansionist militarism ?
When did the USA and Britain become such pacifists ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, it was obviously not expansionist militarism.
We are talking about what is going on, right now. The US and UK’s prior crimes are irrelevant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No offence, but bookmarked.
posted on 25/2/22
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Looks like Russia might be struggling with its military objectives, and have been unexpected by the scale of the Ukrainian resistance.
May well be disinformation, as right now a lot of unreliable information is flying around.
It will be good if true though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't want to post it earlier as I thought it might be wishful thinking, but I was thinking this too.
Now to get people's backs up... we need to give Putin a face saving solution... no, no, no, I'm not on Putin's side, I don't think he is right in invading, but he ain't going to go without something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree entirely.
He needs putting back in his box, unceremoniously. There should be no compromise now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this, or in a few years he will be at it again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tried that after WW1, it didn't work. WW2 a different approach was given and it worked.
Any deal works best when both parties feel they gained at the table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How will Ukraine gain via compromise?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No more threat from Russia.
We all have a sneaky feeling Putin wants Ukraine in Russia, BUT he has repeatedly said it to do with NATO and separatists. Use the NATO part as the bargaining chip. Ukraine will not join NATO unless it has Russian approval. This way Putin will get something publicly and he can move the fool out of Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What?
The Ukraine is an independent country and should be free to join whatever defensive faction it likes, NATO especially.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
then in '62, Cuba should have been able to ally with USSR and have Nukes pointed at USA ?
this what has got Putin's back up
posted on 25/2/22
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
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