Less and less kids are smoking now. Bans do work.

Thing is kids are now on vapes. One of my nieces started on a vape at 12! I don’t get it, but from an environmental POV (batteries and litter) the disposable vapes are awful.

comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 33 minutes ago
And every time I go through an airport, there are plenty who think it's ok to stand around entrances and pollute the air. They don't all wander off to the designated area
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pollute the air around an airport, think the clean air ship left that (air)port a long time ago

comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted about a minute ago
"What right do smokers as a minority group have to pollute public space for non smokers might be a more appropriate question."

You mean outdoor spaces built to accommodate smokers following the smoking ban?

A single smoker contributes more in tax revenue then yourself given the cost of a packet of ciggies/tobacco is mostly tax. Tax revenue from smoking, just under £10bn pa, cost to the NHS pa, £2.6bn.

Are non smokers going to make up the £7.4bn pa shortfall?


----------------------------------------------------------------------

No. If there are specific areas for smokers then that's fine by me.

No idea why again you want to mention my tax revenue compared to smokers though. There is no comparison, but neither is there a comparison with our relative health costs either.

No idea if one balances out the other to be honest but over lifetimes I suspect the health costs are more than the revenue gained.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
You.mean specific areas created for smokers like the pub beer gardens that sprung up following the ban.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If there are specific areas in beer gardens away from the general are for customers then fine. I believe this potential move is to stop open beer gardens and the like being used by smokers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They were created to accommodate smokers. Now non smokers want to co-opt that space for themselves. A bit selfish no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If that is what is being mooted, then yes it is. Again, I've no problem with bespoke areas for smokers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bespoke areas such as beer gardens.

Ban cigs and legalise weed

It's the only way

I am no fan of big tobacco, or smoking in general, but I am very uncomfortable with an outright ban.

People should be able to do what they want with their own bodies *where there is no or negligible impact on other people’s health*, and there isn’t in pub beer gardens, for example.

Better regulation and control of products to make them safer, yes. Appropriate taxation to pay for related healthcare issues, cessation programmes, public health info campaigns, yes. Legislation controlling what competent adults can and can’t put in their own bodies, nah, not for me.

comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted about a minute ago
"What right do smokers as a minority group have to pollute public space for non smokers might be a more appropriate question."

You mean outdoor spaces built to accommodate smokers following the smoking ban?

A single smoker contributes more in tax revenue then yourself given the cost of a packet of ciggies/tobacco is mostly tax. Tax revenue from smoking, just under £10bn pa, cost to the NHS pa, £2.6bn.

Are non smokers going to make up the £7.4bn pa shortfall?


----------------------------------------------------------------------

No. If there are specific areas for smokers then that's fine by me.

No idea why again you want to mention my tax revenue compared to smokers though. There is no comparison, but neither is there a comparison with our relative health costs either.

No idea if one balances out the other to be honest but over lifetimes I suspect the health costs are more than the revenue gained.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
You.mean specific areas created for smokers like the pub beer gardens that sprung up following the ban.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If there are specific areas in beer gardens away from the general are for customers then fine. I believe this potential move is to stop open beer gardens and the like being used by smokers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They were created to accommodate smokers. Now non smokers want to co-opt that space for themselves. A bit selfish no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If that is what is being mooted, then yes it is. Again, I've no problem with bespoke areas for smokers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bespoke areas such as beer gardens.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

No. That's not what I said. I've made it perfectly clear what I mean but if you wish to carry on with the same mantra, you already have my response.

comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unl... (U17054)
posted less than a minute ago
I am no fan of big tobacco, or smoking in general, but I am very uncomfortable with an outright ban.

People should be able to do what they want with their own bodies *where there is no or negligible impact on other people’s health*, and there isn’t in pub beer gardens, for example.

Better regulation and control of products to make them safer, yes. Appropriate taxation to pay for related healthcare issues, cessation programmes, public health info campaigns, yes. Legislation controlling what competent adults can and can’t put in their own bodies, nah, not for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

A complete ban isn't being mooted I don't believe.

comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unl... (U17054)
posted less than a minute ago
I am no fan of big tobacco, or smoking in general, but I am very uncomfortable with an outright ban.

People should be able to do what they want with their own bodies *where there is no or negligible impact on other people’s health*, and there isn’t in pub beer gardens, for example.

Better regulation and control of products to make them safer, yes. Appropriate taxation to pay for related healthcare issues, cessation programmes, public health info campaigns, yes. Legislation controlling what competent adults can and can’t put in their own bodies, nah, not for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

A complete ban isn't being mooted I don't believe.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve seen a few people suggest it on here though.

comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t talk to me unless you can do ten (U6374)
posted 8 minutes ago
Less and less kids are smoking now. Bans do work.

Thing is kids are now on vapes. One of my nieces started on a vape at 12! I don’t get it, but from an environmental POV (batteries and litter) the disposable vapes are awful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vaping gives you new symptons that Cigs didnt cause. Bubble lung. Very nasty.

comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted about a minute ago
"What right do smokers as a minority group have to pollute public space for non smokers might be a more appropriate question."

You mean outdoor spaces built to accommodate smokers following the smoking ban?

A single smoker contributes more in tax revenue then yourself given the cost of a packet of ciggies/tobacco is mostly tax. Tax revenue from smoking, just under £10bn pa, cost to the NHS pa, £2.6bn.

Are non smokers going to make up the £7.4bn pa shortfall?


----------------------------------------------------------------------

No. If there are specific areas for smokers then that's fine by me.

No idea why again you want to mention my tax revenue compared to smokers though. There is no comparison, but neither is there a comparison with our relative health costs either.

No idea if one balances out the other to be honest but over lifetimes I suspect the health costs are more than the revenue gained.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
You.mean specific areas created for smokers like the pub beer gardens that sprung up following the ban.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If there are specific areas in beer gardens away from the general are for customers then fine. I believe this potential move is to stop open beer gardens and the like being used by smokers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They were created to accommodate smokers. Now non smokers want to co-opt that space for themselves. A bit selfish no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If that is what is being mooted, then yes it is. Again, I've no problem with bespoke areas for smokers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bespoke areas such as beer gardens.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

No. That's not what I said. I've made it perfectly clear what I mean but if you wish to carry on with the same mantra, you already have my response.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why were beer gardens popularised? To accommodate smokers. Non smokers have an entire pub to indulge in their addictive habit, why should they encroach on the already limited area designated specifically for smokers and their equally addictive habit?

comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t talk to me unless you can do ten (U6374)
posted 8 minutes ago
Less and less kids are smoking now. Bans do work.

Thing is kids are now on vapes. One of my nieces started on a vape at 12! I don’t get it, but from an environmental POV (batteries and litter) the disposable vapes are awful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vaping gives you new symptons that Cigs didnt cause. Bubble lung. Very nasty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

There has to be more damage being done as you say. You can't just inhale flavoured smoke (or whatever it is) from a disposable plastic dispenser that costs what; £1, and not think this doesn't do some harm.

comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t talk to me unless you can do ten (U6374)
posted 8 minutes ago
Less and less kids are smoking now. Bans do work.

Thing is kids are now on vapes. One of my nieces started on a vape at 12! I don’t get it, but from an environmental POV (batteries and litter) the disposable vapes are awful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vaping gives you new symptons that Cigs didnt cause. Bubble lung. Very nasty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

There has to be more damage being done as you say. You can't just inhale flavoured smoke (or whatever it is) from a disposable plastic dispenser that costs what; £1, and not think this doesn't do some harm.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct. You cant.

comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t talk to me unless you can do ten (U6374)
posted 8 minutes ago
Less and less kids are smoking now. Bans do work.

Thing is kids are now on vapes. One of my nieces started on a vape at 12! I don’t get it, but from an environmental POV (batteries and litter) the disposable vapes are awful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vaping gives you new symptons that Cigs didnt cause. Bubble lung. Very nasty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yep, it’s a menace. I just don’t know why you’d take up camping if you didn’t smoke first, but I guess many don’t understand why people would take up smoking either.

They need to ban the disposables either way imo.

Camping? *Vaping

comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted about a minute ago
"What right do smokers as a minority group have to pollute public space for non smokers might be a more appropriate question."

You mean outdoor spaces built to accommodate smokers following the smoking ban?

A single smoker contributes more in tax revenue then yourself given the cost of a packet of ciggies/tobacco is mostly tax. Tax revenue from smoking, just under £10bn pa, cost to the NHS pa, £2.6bn.

Are non smokers going to make up the £7.4bn pa shortfall?


----------------------------------------------------------------------

No. If there are specific areas for smokers then that's fine by me.

No idea why again you want to mention my tax revenue compared to smokers though. There is no comparison, but neither is there a comparison with our relative health costs either.

No idea if one balances out the other to be honest but over lifetimes I suspect the health costs are more than the revenue gained.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
You.mean specific areas created for smokers like the pub beer gardens that sprung up following the ban.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If there are specific areas in beer gardens away from the general are for customers then fine. I believe this potential move is to stop open beer gardens and the like being used by smokers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They were created to accommodate smokers. Now non smokers want to co-opt that space for themselves. A bit selfish no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If that is what is being mooted, then yes it is. Again, I've no problem with bespoke areas for smokers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bespoke areas such as beer gardens.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

No. That's not what I said. I've made it perfectly clear what I mean but if you wish to carry on with the same mantra, you already have my response.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why were beer gardens popularised? To accommodate smokers. Non smokers have an entire pub to indulge in their addictive habit, why should they encroach on the already limited area designated specifically for smokers and their equally addictive habit?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Beer gardens were popularised to allow social drinkers and their families to be outdoors.

The beer "gardens" I believe you are speaking of are usually grotty back yards of a pub with a couple of barrels and maybe a gnarled old tree that has been previously seen as a nuisance

comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t talk to me unless you can do ten (U6374)
posted 8 minutes ago
Less and less kids are smoking now. Bans do work.

Thing is kids are now on vapes. One of my nieces started on a vape at 12! I don’t get it, but from an environmental POV (batteries and litter) the disposable vapes are awful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vaping gives you new symptons that Cigs didnt cause. Bubble lung. Very nasty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

There has to be more damage being done as you say. You can't just inhale flavoured smoke (or whatever it is) from a disposable plastic dispenser that costs what; £1, and not think this doesn't do some harm.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct. You cant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It's discrimination plain and simple.

"Beer gardens were popularised to allow social drinkers and their families to be outdoors."

Ban kids from licenced premises, it's a specific place for the consumption of alcohol, nanny state needs to be consistent

I’d happily ban kids from pubs. I go there to get away from them

comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted about a minute ago
"What right do smokers as a minority group have to pollute public space for non smokers might be a more appropriate question."

You mean outdoor spaces built to accommodate smokers following the smoking ban?

A single smoker contributes more in tax revenue then yourself given the cost of a packet of ciggies/tobacco is mostly tax. Tax revenue from smoking, just under £10bn pa, cost to the NHS pa, £2.6bn.

Are non smokers going to make up the £7.4bn pa shortfall?


----------------------------------------------------------------------

No. If there are specific areas for smokers then that's fine by me.

No idea why again you want to mention my tax revenue compared to smokers though. There is no comparison, but neither is there a comparison with our relative health costs either.

No idea if one balances out the other to be honest but over lifetimes I suspect the health costs are more than the revenue gained.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
You.mean specific areas created for smokers like the pub beer gardens that sprung up following the ban.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If there are specific areas in beer gardens away from the general are for customers then fine. I believe this potential move is to stop open beer gardens and the like being used by smokers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They were created to accommodate smokers. Now non smokers want to co-opt that space for themselves. A bit selfish no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If that is what is being mooted, then yes it is. Again, I've no problem with bespoke areas for smokers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bespoke areas such as beer gardens.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

No. That's not what I said. I've made it perfectly clear what I mean but if you wish to carry on with the same mantra, you already have my response.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why were beer gardens popularised? To accommodate smokers. Non smokers have an entire pub to indulge in their addictive habit, why should they encroach on the already limited area designated specifically for smokers and their equally addictive habit?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Beer gardens were popularised to allow social drinkers and their families to be outdoors.

The beer "gardens" I believe you are speaking of are usually grotty back yards of a pub with a couple of barrels and maybe a gnarled old tree that has been previously seen as a nuisance
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No they weren't

Mate your talking out your hoop here. I worked in this industry when the ban came in. Pubs invested in everything from 'grotty back yards' to full on tables, chairs, shelters,faux grass and gas burners to accommodate smokers and not lose their trade, a significant portion of income at the time.

Your argument is as flawed as your smoking outside airports polluting the air comment.

comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 15 seconds ago

"Beer gardens were popularised to allow social drinkers and their families to be outdoors."

Ban kids from licenced premises, it's a specific place for the consumption of alcohol, nanny state needs to be consistent
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Most pubs make more money from soft drinks and food these days. No way are they going to ban kids.

Pubs are closing down daily. Ban kids and that rate will only increase

comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted about a minute ago
"What right do smokers as a minority group have to pollute public space for non smokers might be a more appropriate question."

You mean outdoor spaces built to accommodate smokers following the smoking ban?

A single smoker contributes more in tax revenue then yourself given the cost of a packet of ciggies/tobacco is mostly tax. Tax revenue from smoking, just under £10bn pa, cost to the NHS pa, £2.6bn.

Are non smokers going to make up the £7.4bn pa shortfall?


----------------------------------------------------------------------

No. If there are specific areas for smokers then that's fine by me.

No idea why again you want to mention my tax revenue compared to smokers though. There is no comparison, but neither is there a comparison with our relative health costs either.

No idea if one balances out the other to be honest but over lifetimes I suspect the health costs are more than the revenue gained.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
You.mean specific areas created for smokers like the pub beer gardens that sprung up following the ban.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If there are specific areas in beer gardens away from the general are for customers then fine. I believe this potential move is to stop open beer gardens and the like being used by smokers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They were created to accommodate smokers. Now non smokers want to co-opt that space for themselves. A bit selfish no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If that is what is being mooted, then yes it is. Again, I've no problem with bespoke areas for smokers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bespoke areas such as beer gardens.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

No. That's not what I said. I've made it perfectly clear what I mean but if you wish to carry on with the same mantra, you already have my response.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why were beer gardens popularised? To accommodate smokers. Non smokers have an entire pub to indulge in their addictive habit, why should they encroach on the already limited area designated specifically for smokers and their equally addictive habit?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Beer gardens were popularised to allow social drinkers and their families to be outdoors.

The beer "gardens" I believe you are speaking of are usually grotty back yards of a pub with a couple of barrels and maybe a gnarled old tree that has been previously seen as a nuisance
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No they weren't

Mate your talking out your hoop here. I worked in this industry when the ban came in. Pubs invested in everything from 'grotty back yards' to full on tables, chairs, shelters,faux grass and gas burners to accommodate smokers and not lose their trade, a significant portion of income at the time.

Your argument is as flawed as your smoking outside airports polluting the air comment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hardly

I can't think of a single pub anywhere in my surrounding area where their beer garden was developed to cater for smokers. Not one.

There are pubs who have smoking areas however.

As for airports; been through about 4 different ones in the UK in the last month. Every single one with smokers hanging around entrances and exits where they shouldn't be and practically lighting up the second they start walking out the door.

Your experience may well be different, but it's certainly not mine. And this is what I believe they want to stop.

comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 15 seconds ago

"Beer gardens were popularised to allow social drinkers and their families to be outdoors."

Ban kids from licenced premises, it's a specific place for the consumption of alcohol, nanny state needs to be consistent
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Most pubs make more money from soft drinks and food these days. No way are they going to ban kids.

Pubs are closing down daily. Ban kids and that rate will only increase
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This isn't about the survival of pubs, quite the opposite.

comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t talk to me unless you can do ten (U6374)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t talk to me unless you can do ten (U6374)
posted 8 minutes ago
Less and less kids are smoking now. Bans do work.

Thing is kids are now on vapes. One of my nieces started on a vape at 12! I don’t get it, but from an environmental POV (batteries and litter) the disposable vapes are awful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vaping gives you new symptons that Cigs didnt cause. Bubble lung. Very nasty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yep, it’s a menace. I just don’t know why you’d take up camping if you didn’t smoke first, but I guess many don’t understand why people would take up smoking either.

They need to ban the disposables either way imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because they taste like sweets.

comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 15 seconds ago

"Beer gardens were popularised to allow social drinkers and their families to be outdoors."

Ban kids from licenced premises, it's a specific place for the consumption of alcohol, nanny state needs to be consistent
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Most pubs make more money from soft drinks and food these days. No way are they going to ban kids.

Pubs are closing down daily. Ban kids and that rate will only increase
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This isn't about the survival of pubs, quite the opposite.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

You want pubs to close down? Or to be simple "drinking shops" (which I quite like the idea of )