comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 12 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cushion half volleys (U6374)
posted 29 minutes ago
52 is a decent man and no Tory
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheers Robbing, as are you. People can never agree about everything, but that doesn't make the other a bad person.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
52 is a decent man, but a Tory he is.
You don't have to be a Tory to understand the Israeli perspective, in much the same way you don't have to be a radical left-winger to see why Hamas might have a large support base across the Occupied Territories.
You don't have to be of any particular political persuasion to see that both sides commit atrocities that far exceed the limits of any plausible right to self defence.
Anyone with the slightest degree of empathy can see that there's huge suffering on both sides of the conflict, although I cannot let that go unqualified. The sheer numbers, the living conditions, and the ongoing, daily harassment and discrimination mean that the suffering is infinitely greater on the Palestinian side.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 27 minutes ago
You don't have to be a Tory to understand the Israeli perspective, in much the same way you don't have to be a radical left-winger to see why Hamas might have a large support base across the Occupied Territories.
You don't have to be of any particular political persuasion to see that both sides commit atrocities that far exceed the limits of any plausible right to self defence.
Anyone with the slightest degree of empathy can see that there's huge suffering on both sides of the conflict, although I cannot let that go unqualified. The sheer numbers, the living conditions, and the ongoing, daily harassment and discrimination mean that the suffering is infinitely greater on the Palestinian side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also worth pointing out that the Palestinians aren't occupying anyone's land and therefore don't deserve to suffer in anyway and they don't oversee apartheid against anyone.
they do, thats the issue isnt it
comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 6 minutes ago
they do, thats the issue isnt it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How so.
Hundreds of Zionist Israelis are blocking trucks carrying humanitarian aid from entering the Gaza Strip through the Kerem Shalom crossing point.
https://x.com/torahjudaism/status/1750099496590037297?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 12 minutes ago
Hundreds of Zionist Israelis are blocking trucks carrying humanitarian aid from entering the Gaza Strip through the Kerem Shalom crossing point.
https://x.com/torahjudaism/status/1750099496590037297?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's actually a very interesting twitter account. I thought ultra-Orthodox Jews were radical Zionists. Aren't they in the Netanyahu government?
That account suggests they're the polar opposite - or is this is merely a minority faction within the ultra-Orthodox community?
Someone educate me, please.
Ok, well just went to Wikipedia for a simple explanation, and found this (in case anyone else is interested):
The chief political division among Haredi Jews has been in their approach to the State of Israel. After Israeli independence, different Haredi movements took varying positions on it. Only a minority of Haredi Jews consider themselves to be Zionists. Haredim who do not consider themselves Zionists fall into two-camps: non-Zionist, and anti-Zionist. Non-Zionist Haredim, who comprise the majority, do not object to the State of Israel as an independent Jewish state, and many even consider it to be positive, but they do not believe that it has any religious significance. Anti-Zionist Haredim, who are a minority, but are more publicly visible than the non-Zionist majority, believe that any Jewish independence prior to the coming of the Messiah is a sin.
The ideologically non-Zionist United Torah Judaism alliance comprising Agudat Yisrael and Degel HaTorah (and the umbrella organizations World Agudath Israel and Agudath Israel of America) represents a moderate and pragmatic stance of cooperation with the State of Israel, and participation in the political system. UTJ has been a participant in numerous coalition governments, seeking to influence state and society in a more religious direction and maintain welfare and religious funding policies. In general, their position is supportive of Israel.
Haredim who are stridently anti-Zionist are under the umbrella of Edah HaChareidis, who reject participation in politics and state funding of its affiliated institutions, in contradistinction to Agudah-affiliated institutions. Neturei Karta is a very small activist organization of anti-Zionist Haredim, whose controversial activities have been strongly condemned, including by other anti-Zionist Haredim.[147] Haredi support is often required to form coalition governments in the Knesset.
In recent years, some rebbes affiliated with Agudath Israel, such as the Sadigura rebbe Avrohom Yaakov Friedman, have taken more hard-line stances on security, settlements, and disengagement.[148]
Shas represents Sephardi and Mizrahi Haredim, and, while having many points in common with Ashkenazi Haredim, differs from them by its more enthusiastic support for the State of Israel and the IDF.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi_Judaism
comment by Thorgen Kloppinson - "When the facts are in your favour, you argue the facts. When facts are not in your favour you argue the process." (U1282)
posted 6 hours, 21 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 12 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cushion half volleys (U6374)
posted 29 minutes ago
52 is a decent man and no Tory
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheers Robbing, as are you. People can never agree about everything, but that doesn't make the other a bad person.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
52 is a decent man, but a Tory he is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lifelong Guardian reader and labour voter. A strange Tory, but there we are
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 56 minutes ago
Ok, well just went to Wikipedia for a simple explanation, and found this (in case anyone else is interested):
The chief political division among Haredi Jews has been in their approach to the State of Israel. After Israeli independence, different Haredi movements took varying positions on it. Only a minority of Haredi Jews consider themselves to be Zionists. Haredim who do not consider themselves Zionists fall into two-camps: non-Zionist, and anti-Zionist. Non-Zionist Haredim, who comprise the majority, do not object to the State of Israel as an independent Jewish state, and many even consider it to be positive, but they do not believe that it has any religious significance. Anti-Zionist Haredim, who are a minority, but are more publicly visible than the non-Zionist majority, believe that any Jewish independence prior to the coming of the Messiah is a sin.
The ideologically non-Zionist United Torah Judaism alliance comprising Agudat Yisrael and Degel HaTorah (and the umbrella organizations World Agudath Israel and Agudath Israel of America) represents a moderate and pragmatic stance of cooperation with the State of Israel, and participation in the political system. UTJ has been a participant in numerous coalition governments, seeking to influence state and society in a more religious direction and maintain welfare and religious funding policies. In general, their position is supportive of Israel.
Haredim who are stridently anti-Zionist are under the umbrella of Edah HaChareidis, who reject participation in politics and state funding of its affiliated institutions, in contradistinction to Agudah-affiliated institutions. Neturei Karta is a very small activist organization of anti-Zionist Haredim, whose controversial activities have been strongly condemned, including by other anti-Zionist Haredim.[147] Haredi support is often required to form coalition governments in the Knesset.
In recent years, some rebbes affiliated with Agudath Israel, such as the Sadigura rebbe Avrohom Yaakov Friedman, have taken more hard-line stances on security, settlements, and disengagement.[148]
Shas represents Sephardi and Mizrahi Haredim, and, while having many points in common with Ashkenazi Haredim, differs from them by its more enthusiastic support for the State of Israel and the IDF.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi_Judaism
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It gets even more complicated
@52, fwiw I appreciate the fact that there are people like you willing to engage on this subject regardless of the hostility shown by others.
I've just started listening to the Guardian Football Weekly podcast on the role of football in this crisis. About 20 minutes in right now, so too early to draw conclusions. Have you listened to it yourself?
https://www.theguardian.com/football/audio/2024/jan/24/football-reaction-to-crisis-in-the-middle-east-football-weekly-special-podcast
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
@52, fwiw I appreciate the fact that there are people like you willing to engage on this subject regardless of the hostility shown by others.
I've just started listening to the Guardian Football Weekly podcast on the role of football in this crisis. About 20 minutes in right now, so too early to draw conclusions. Have you listened to it yourself?
https://www.theguardian.com/football/audio/2024/jan/24/football-reaction-to-crisis-in-the-middle-east-football-weekly-special-podcast
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I get the football daily from the Guardian every day, it's very funny and often pertinent. But I haven't listened to the podcast, so I shall. Thanks for that.
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 27 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Judge Donoghue is detailing comments made by Israeli officials during the war, including:
The defence minister, Yoav Gallant, saying he had ordered “complete siege” of Gaza City”, that “we will eliminate everything” and that Israel was fighting “human animals”.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/jan/26/middle-east-crisis-live-updates-icj-genocide-case-ruling-israel-hamas-gaza-hostage-talks-cia
I feared they'd be holding back, but it doesn't look like it. Great news.
Let's see what the response is from the U.S. now. If Biden starts to climb down, Netanyahu will be under real pressure.
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won’t do anything. ICJ is only credible in the West’s eyes when the victims are white.
I am interested to see what a lot of the EU governments have to say as they have all be sitting on the fence saying they would wait until the ICJ decided whether South Africa’s case was credible or not (as if they can’t use their own eyes to see what’s going on )
comment by Vladimikel Artutin - committing war crimes against football since 2019 (U18355)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won’t do anything. ICJ is only credible in the West’s eyes when the victims are white.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Incorrect.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Vladimikel Artutin - committing war crimes against football since 2019 (U18355)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won’t do anything. ICJ is only credible in the West’s eyes when the victims are white.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The USA does not even recognise this ICJ thing.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 3 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 27 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Judge Donoghue is detailing comments made by Israeli officials during the war, including:
The defence minister, Yoav Gallant, saying he had ordered “complete siege” of Gaza City”, that “we will eliminate everything” and that Israel was fighting “human animals”.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/jan/26/middle-east-crisis-live-updates-icj-genocide-case-ruling-israel-hamas-gaza-hostage-talks-cia
I feared they'd be holding back, but it doesn't look like it. Great news.
Let's see what the response is from the U.S. now. If Biden starts to climb down, Netanyahu will be under real pressure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good, Israel should have stopped long since
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Vladimikel Artutin - committing war crimes against football since 2019 (U18355)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won’t do anything. ICJ is only credible in the West’s eyes when the victims are white.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The USA does not even recognise this ICJ thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The us are arseholes
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face (U19119)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Vladimikel Artutin - committing war crimes against football since 2019 (U18355)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won’t do anything. ICJ is only credible in the West’s eyes when the victims are white.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The USA does not even recognise this ICJ thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The us are arseholes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would you call the UK? The only difference
is they lead and the UK follows.
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face (U19119)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Vladimikel Artutin - committing war crimes against football since 2019 (U18355)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won’t do anything. ICJ is only credible in the West’s eyes when the victims are white.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The USA does not even recognise this ICJ thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The us are arseholes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would you call the UK? The only difference
is they lead and the UK follows.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arseholes lapdog
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face (U19119)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face (U19119)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Vladimikel Artutin - committing war crimes against football since 2019 (U18355)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won’t do anything. ICJ is only credible in the West’s eyes when the victims are white.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The USA does not even recognise this ICJ thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The us are arseholes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would you call the UK? The only difference
is they lead and the UK follows.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arseholes lapdog
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Waitaminit, pal. That's Canada's title.
comment by Vladimikel Artutin - committing war crimes against football since 2019 (U18355)
posted 4 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won’t do anything. ICJ is only credible in the West’s eyes when the victims are white.
I am interested to see what a lot of the EU governments have to say as they have all be sitting on the fence saying they would wait until the ICJ decided whether South Africa’s case was credible or not (as if they can’t use their own eyes to see what’s going on)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, ICJ is for disciplining African leaders who don't toe the line. The US isn't even a signatory I don't think, and with good reason because of they were their rap sheet would be light years long.
comment by Thorgen Kloppinson - "When the facts are in your favour, you argue the facts. When facts are not in your favour you argue the process." (U1282)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Vladimikel Artutin - committing war crimes against football since 2019 (U18355)
posted 4 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won’t do anything. ICJ is only credible in the West’s eyes when the victims are white.
I am interested to see what a lot of the EU governments have to say as they have all be sitting on the fence saying they would wait until the ICJ decided whether South Africa’s case was credible or not (as if they can’t use their own eyes to see what’s going on)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, ICJ is for disciplining African leaders who don't toe the line. The US isn't even a signatory I don't think, and with good reason because of they were their rap sheet would be light years long.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's closer to the truth. It isn't so much about the identity of the victims but of the perpetrators.
The U.S. isn't the entire West, although you'd be forgiven for thinking so given how infrequently Europe dares to step out of line.
Personally I couldn't care less if the UK are just the US's brown-nosers, Britain is increasingly irrelevant on the world stage through its own choice. The EU is the only chance Europe has of staying relevant, but we need to be more assertive and not fret so much about upsetting Uncle Sam.
Sign in if you want to comment
Israel
Page 29 of 31
27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31
posted on 26/1/24
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 12 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cushion half volleys (U6374)
posted 29 minutes ago
52 is a decent man and no Tory
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheers Robbing, as are you. People can never agree about everything, but that doesn't make the other a bad person.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
52 is a decent man, but a Tory he is.
posted on 26/1/24
You don't have to be a Tory to understand the Israeli perspective, in much the same way you don't have to be a radical left-winger to see why Hamas might have a large support base across the Occupied Territories.
You don't have to be of any particular political persuasion to see that both sides commit atrocities that far exceed the limits of any plausible right to self defence.
Anyone with the slightest degree of empathy can see that there's huge suffering on both sides of the conflict, although I cannot let that go unqualified. The sheer numbers, the living conditions, and the ongoing, daily harassment and discrimination mean that the suffering is infinitely greater on the Palestinian side.
posted on 26/1/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 27 minutes ago
You don't have to be a Tory to understand the Israeli perspective, in much the same way you don't have to be a radical left-winger to see why Hamas might have a large support base across the Occupied Territories.
You don't have to be of any particular political persuasion to see that both sides commit atrocities that far exceed the limits of any plausible right to self defence.
Anyone with the slightest degree of empathy can see that there's huge suffering on both sides of the conflict, although I cannot let that go unqualified. The sheer numbers, the living conditions, and the ongoing, daily harassment and discrimination mean that the suffering is infinitely greater on the Palestinian side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also worth pointing out that the Palestinians aren't occupying anyone's land and therefore don't deserve to suffer in anyway and they don't oversee apartheid against anyone.
posted on 26/1/24
they do, thats the issue isnt it
posted on 26/1/24
comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 6 minutes ago
they do, thats the issue isnt it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How so.
posted on 26/1/24
Hundreds of Zionist Israelis are blocking trucks carrying humanitarian aid from entering the Gaza Strip through the Kerem Shalom crossing point.
https://x.com/torahjudaism/status/1750099496590037297?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
posted on 26/1/24
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 12 minutes ago
Hundreds of Zionist Israelis are blocking trucks carrying humanitarian aid from entering the Gaza Strip through the Kerem Shalom crossing point.
https://x.com/torahjudaism/status/1750099496590037297?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's actually a very interesting twitter account. I thought ultra-Orthodox Jews were radical Zionists. Aren't they in the Netanyahu government?
That account suggests they're the polar opposite - or is this is merely a minority faction within the ultra-Orthodox community?
Someone educate me, please.
posted on 26/1/24
Ok, well just went to Wikipedia for a simple explanation, and found this (in case anyone else is interested):
The chief political division among Haredi Jews has been in their approach to the State of Israel. After Israeli independence, different Haredi movements took varying positions on it. Only a minority of Haredi Jews consider themselves to be Zionists. Haredim who do not consider themselves Zionists fall into two-camps: non-Zionist, and anti-Zionist. Non-Zionist Haredim, who comprise the majority, do not object to the State of Israel as an independent Jewish state, and many even consider it to be positive, but they do not believe that it has any religious significance. Anti-Zionist Haredim, who are a minority, but are more publicly visible than the non-Zionist majority, believe that any Jewish independence prior to the coming of the Messiah is a sin.
The ideologically non-Zionist United Torah Judaism alliance comprising Agudat Yisrael and Degel HaTorah (and the umbrella organizations World Agudath Israel and Agudath Israel of America) represents a moderate and pragmatic stance of cooperation with the State of Israel, and participation in the political system. UTJ has been a participant in numerous coalition governments, seeking to influence state and society in a more religious direction and maintain welfare and religious funding policies. In general, their position is supportive of Israel.
Haredim who are stridently anti-Zionist are under the umbrella of Edah HaChareidis, who reject participation in politics and state funding of its affiliated institutions, in contradistinction to Agudah-affiliated institutions. Neturei Karta is a very small activist organization of anti-Zionist Haredim, whose controversial activities have been strongly condemned, including by other anti-Zionist Haredim.[147] Haredi support is often required to form coalition governments in the Knesset.
In recent years, some rebbes affiliated with Agudath Israel, such as the Sadigura rebbe Avrohom Yaakov Friedman, have taken more hard-line stances on security, settlements, and disengagement.[148]
Shas represents Sephardi and Mizrahi Haredim, and, while having many points in common with Ashkenazi Haredim, differs from them by its more enthusiastic support for the State of Israel and the IDF.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi_Judaism
posted on 26/1/24
comment by Thorgen Kloppinson - "When the facts are in your favour, you argue the facts. When facts are not in your favour you argue the process." (U1282)
posted 6 hours, 21 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 12 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cushion half volleys (U6374)
posted 29 minutes ago
52 is a decent man and no Tory
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheers Robbing, as are you. People can never agree about everything, but that doesn't make the other a bad person.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
52 is a decent man, but a Tory he is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lifelong Guardian reader and labour voter. A strange Tory, but there we are
posted on 26/1/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 56 minutes ago
Ok, well just went to Wikipedia for a simple explanation, and found this (in case anyone else is interested):
The chief political division among Haredi Jews has been in their approach to the State of Israel. After Israeli independence, different Haredi movements took varying positions on it. Only a minority of Haredi Jews consider themselves to be Zionists. Haredim who do not consider themselves Zionists fall into two-camps: non-Zionist, and anti-Zionist. Non-Zionist Haredim, who comprise the majority, do not object to the State of Israel as an independent Jewish state, and many even consider it to be positive, but they do not believe that it has any religious significance. Anti-Zionist Haredim, who are a minority, but are more publicly visible than the non-Zionist majority, believe that any Jewish independence prior to the coming of the Messiah is a sin.
The ideologically non-Zionist United Torah Judaism alliance comprising Agudat Yisrael and Degel HaTorah (and the umbrella organizations World Agudath Israel and Agudath Israel of America) represents a moderate and pragmatic stance of cooperation with the State of Israel, and participation in the political system. UTJ has been a participant in numerous coalition governments, seeking to influence state and society in a more religious direction and maintain welfare and religious funding policies. In general, their position is supportive of Israel.
Haredim who are stridently anti-Zionist are under the umbrella of Edah HaChareidis, who reject participation in politics and state funding of its affiliated institutions, in contradistinction to Agudah-affiliated institutions. Neturei Karta is a very small activist organization of anti-Zionist Haredim, whose controversial activities have been strongly condemned, including by other anti-Zionist Haredim.[147] Haredi support is often required to form coalition governments in the Knesset.
In recent years, some rebbes affiliated with Agudath Israel, such as the Sadigura rebbe Avrohom Yaakov Friedman, have taken more hard-line stances on security, settlements, and disengagement.[148]
Shas represents Sephardi and Mizrahi Haredim, and, while having many points in common with Ashkenazi Haredim, differs from them by its more enthusiastic support for the State of Israel and the IDF.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi_Judaism
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It gets even more complicated
posted on 26/1/24
@52, fwiw I appreciate the fact that there are people like you willing to engage on this subject regardless of the hostility shown by others.
I've just started listening to the Guardian Football Weekly podcast on the role of football in this crisis. About 20 minutes in right now, so too early to draw conclusions. Have you listened to it yourself?
https://www.theguardian.com/football/audio/2024/jan/24/football-reaction-to-crisis-in-the-middle-east-football-weekly-special-podcast
posted on 26/1/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
@52, fwiw I appreciate the fact that there are people like you willing to engage on this subject regardless of the hostility shown by others.
I've just started listening to the Guardian Football Weekly podcast on the role of football in this crisis. About 20 minutes in right now, so too early to draw conclusions. Have you listened to it yourself?
https://www.theguardian.com/football/audio/2024/jan/24/football-reaction-to-crisis-in-the-middle-east-football-weekly-special-podcast
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I get the football daily from the Guardian every day, it's very funny and often pertinent. But I haven't listened to the podcast, so I shall. Thanks for that.
posted on 26/1/24
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
posted on 26/1/24
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 27 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Judge Donoghue is detailing comments made by Israeli officials during the war, including:
The defence minister, Yoav Gallant, saying he had ordered “complete siege” of Gaza City”, that “we will eliminate everything” and that Israel was fighting “human animals”.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/jan/26/middle-east-crisis-live-updates-icj-genocide-case-ruling-israel-hamas-gaza-hostage-talks-cia
I feared they'd be holding back, but it doesn't look like it. Great news.
Let's see what the response is from the U.S. now. If Biden starts to climb down, Netanyahu will be under real pressure.
posted on 26/1/24
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won’t do anything. ICJ is only credible in the West’s eyes when the victims are white.
I am interested to see what a lot of the EU governments have to say as they have all be sitting on the fence saying they would wait until the ICJ decided whether South Africa’s case was credible or not (as if they can’t use their own eyes to see what’s going on )
posted on 26/1/24
comment by Vladimikel Artutin - committing war crimes against football since 2019 (U18355)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won’t do anything. ICJ is only credible in the West’s eyes when the victims are white.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Incorrect.
posted on 26/1/24
White non Muslims?
posted on 26/1/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Vladimikel Artutin - committing war crimes against football since 2019 (U18355)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won’t do anything. ICJ is only credible in the West’s eyes when the victims are white.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The USA does not even recognise this ICJ thing.
posted on 26/1/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 3 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 27 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Judge Donoghue is detailing comments made by Israeli officials during the war, including:
The defence minister, Yoav Gallant, saying he had ordered “complete siege” of Gaza City”, that “we will eliminate everything” and that Israel was fighting “human animals”.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/jan/26/middle-east-crisis-live-updates-icj-genocide-case-ruling-israel-hamas-gaza-hostage-talks-cia
I feared they'd be holding back, but it doesn't look like it. Great news.
Let's see what the response is from the U.S. now. If Biden starts to climb down, Netanyahu will be under real pressure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good, Israel should have stopped long since
posted on 26/1/24
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Vladimikel Artutin - committing war crimes against football since 2019 (U18355)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won’t do anything. ICJ is only credible in the West’s eyes when the victims are white.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The USA does not even recognise this ICJ thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The us are arseholes
posted on 26/1/24
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face (U19119)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Vladimikel Artutin - committing war crimes against football since 2019 (U18355)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won’t do anything. ICJ is only credible in the West’s eyes when the victims are white.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The USA does not even recognise this ICJ thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The us are arseholes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would you call the UK? The only difference
is they lead and the UK follows.
posted on 26/1/24
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face (U19119)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Vladimikel Artutin - committing war crimes against football since 2019 (U18355)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won’t do anything. ICJ is only credible in the West’s eyes when the victims are white.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The USA does not even recognise this ICJ thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The us are arseholes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would you call the UK? The only difference
is they lead and the UK follows.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arseholes lapdog
posted on 26/1/24
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face (U19119)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face (U19119)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Vladimikel Artutin - committing war crimes against football since 2019 (U18355)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won’t do anything. ICJ is only credible in the West’s eyes when the victims are white.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The USA does not even recognise this ICJ thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The us are arseholes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would you call the UK? The only difference
is they lead and the UK follows.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arseholes lapdog
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Waitaminit, pal. That's Canada's title.
posted on 26/1/24
comment by Vladimikel Artutin - committing war crimes against football since 2019 (U18355)
posted 4 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won’t do anything. ICJ is only credible in the West’s eyes when the victims are white.
I am interested to see what a lot of the EU governments have to say as they have all be sitting on the fence saying they would wait until the ICJ decided whether South Africa’s case was credible or not (as if they can’t use their own eyes to see what’s going on)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, ICJ is for disciplining African leaders who don't toe the line. The US isn't even a signatory I don't think, and with good reason because of they were their rap sheet would be light years long.
posted on 26/1/24
comment by Thorgen Kloppinson - "When the facts are in your favour, you argue the facts. When facts are not in your favour you argue the process." (U1282)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Vladimikel Artutin - committing war crimes against football since 2019 (U18355)
posted 4 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by Lucious Lyon (U11781)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
BREAK: In a stunning blow to Israel & the US, the International Court of Justice has acknowledged a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza by refusing to dismiss South Africa's case.
The charge will now remain live for years. Initial analysis, more to come:
https://x.com/akbarsahmed/status/1750857492295188583?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
Let’s see what the spineless UK and US governments have to say about this now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won’t do anything. ICJ is only credible in the West’s eyes when the victims are white.
I am interested to see what a lot of the EU governments have to say as they have all be sitting on the fence saying they would wait until the ICJ decided whether South Africa’s case was credible or not (as if they can’t use their own eyes to see what’s going on)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, ICJ is for disciplining African leaders who don't toe the line. The US isn't even a signatory I don't think, and with good reason because of they were their rap sheet would be light years long.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's closer to the truth. It isn't so much about the identity of the victims but of the perpetrators.
The U.S. isn't the entire West, although you'd be forgiven for thinking so given how infrequently Europe dares to step out of line.
Personally I couldn't care less if the UK are just the US's brown-nosers, Britain is increasingly irrelevant on the world stage through its own choice. The EU is the only chance Europe has of staying relevant, but we need to be more assertive and not fret so much about upsetting Uncle Sam.
Page 29 of 31
27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31