"This is why Barca excell against teams who have these physical players. "
I don't get that. Chelsea and Inter beat them using physical tactics, Barca excel if you try and beat them at their own game and they just pick you off time and time again.
BusbysBabes (U9083)
I like a mix in my teams.
Going on the Prem my preferred midfield 3 would be (I don't really enjoy saying this)
--------------- Keane ---------------------
Gerrard ----------------- Scholes
The perfect balance.
In my opinion that is technique. Having that extra vision, that anticipation something is going to happen, having that spidey sense. You use that to implement into your physical body.
--
Debatable, but what I was referring to isn't strictly technique imo. If you watch Xavi play, he constantly looks around him, over his shoulder, left, right, 4, 5 times, then takes a step or two to make an extra yard of space for himself - he's almost always aware of where a challenge is going to come from and maneouvres accordingly to put himself at an advantage - this latter part is technique imo, but it's the combination of awareness, anticipation and technique that make it so difficult to dispossess him.
In recent years I'd say he's second only to Zidane in awareness and anticipation - maybe even on the same level, but Zidane had one of the best first touches ever.
Although Xavi does have the ability to pull off a great flick, backheel etc. from time to time, but his general repertoire of moves is generally quite simple. That said, using the simplest of technique to the greatest possible effect is also a fantastic attribute and something that's very hard to come by in football imo.
Dubbed The New Wenger -Sancti Cazorla (U9163)
Again -
No-one has said that.
Ninja
Busbybabes is spot on here. Mental attributes are not classed as technique.
Technique is the ability to execute high quality moves. Creativity and intelligence increases it.
Debatable, but what I was referring to isn't strictly technique imo
------------------------
I truly believe that Xavi and co have spent a lot of time studying the art of football and training thier mental side to compliment and enhance the technical side.
I don't get that. Chelsea and Inter beat them using physical tactics, Barca excel if you try and beat them at their own game and they just pick you off time and time again.
---
I wouldn't say Chelsea beat them playing physically, but by placing two banks of men on the edge of the box to deny them every possible inch of space in between the lines.
As for Inter, it's quite likely that they profited from Barça arriving at the San Siro off the back of a 17-hour coach ride.
Nevertheless, they're only 2 instances out of hundreds of games.
Some would disagree but IMO Gerrard was better than Scholes at his peak. Gerrard was just totally unplayable. I do know Scholes dominated teams as hell and was probably better than Gerrard over a longer period.
I agree people are now so obsessed with technique and dribbling. Having said that I think Xavi is the best ever CM Imo. I wouldn't class Iniesta as your everyday CM but he's up there with the best ever.
Too many goodies to argue about...some shouldn't be on the list.
Ninja
Busbybabes is spot on here. Mental attributes are not classed as technique.
--------------------------------
I understand your points but i feel the technique derives from the source which is the mind, it helps, nurtures and grows the technique. Very rarely is someone just born with perfect technique, it is worked on and then through your mind you perfect it.
comment by Robbing_Hoody I taught Reina to flap (U6374)
posted 34 minutes ago
Elvis (U7425)
So let me get this right. Gerrard is not in the same class because he did not win the league on his own but players that play alongside RvN, Cantona, Beckham, Giggs, Keane and Ronaldo are.
Gotcha.
No offence but you literally know nothing about football if you think that.
---------------------------------
Where did you get that from? Did I say anything of the sort?
In my opinion, it is the fact that when the tempo of the game does not suit his style, the game passes him by, that prevents him being in the same class as Scholes.
Stop putting words in my mouth.
"This is why Barca excell against teams who have these physical players. "
Yes, of course.
But saying Gerrard was not world class because he relied more heavily on physicality rather than technique is nonsense.
Elvis;
Probably this bit;
"However, the fact that he could inspire them to cups, but not the league kind of emphasises my view "
If you look and how what is around you, it gives you that extra second because you know what you are going to do. This is completely mental and nothing to do with technique, you don't even have the ball at this point.
It's like picking a pass, certain players like Pirlo see passes nobody else would dream of, but technique is the actually delivery of the pass, not the seeing it.
As mentioned above players like Scholes and Xavi do this all the time.
"Nevertheless, they're only 2 instances out of hundreds of games."
I only used those because they are the two most well known ones. Look at when Barca lose, the other team always play a physical game, even Madrid do it against them and have had far more success doing that than when they tried to match them like for like in terms of skill.
-bloodred- (U1222)
posted 56 seconds ago
"This is why Barca excell against teams who have these physical players. "
Yes, of course.
But saying Gerrard was not world class because he relied more heavily on physicality rather than technique is nonsense.
Gerrard in his prime was up there with the best of his era, no doubt.
"Some would disagree but IMO Gerrard was better than Scholes at his peak."
As much as I admire Gerrard as a player, I think that is an insane thing to say.
Over the years, I've seen Gerrard get outclassed by faceless Italian players.
Players with basic ability and above average technique.
He just can't dictate the tempo or dominate a game like a Cesc, Iniesta or a Scholes.
meltonblue (U10617)
posted 27 seconds ago
"Nevertheless, they're only 2 instances out of hundreds of games."
I only used those because they are the two most well known ones. Look at when Barca lose, the other team always play a physical game, even Madrid do it against them and have had far more success doing that than when they tried to match them like for like in terms of skill.
__________________________________________
Personally I'd put it more down to tactics than being physical.
Barca are often pressd all over the pitch and kicked in the air throughout a game and win.
Dubbed The New Wenger -Sancti Cazorla (U9163)
It's not his job to do that. Different type of player. I've not seen Scholes win the ball, power through the middle of the pitch and slam it in the top left corner.
Which games did you see where that happened?
If you look and how what is around you, it gives you that extra second because you know what you are going to do. This is completely mental and nothing to do with technique, you don't even have the ball at this point.
It's like picking a pass, certain players like Pirlo see passes nobody else would dream of, but technique is the actually delivery of the pass, not the seeing it.
As mentioned above players like Scholes and Xavi do this all the time.
-----------------------------
That technique has come from mental learning and growth.
We will just have to agree to disagree on this one, there is many schools of thought on such issues!
"It's not his job to do that. Different type of player. I've not seen Scholes win the ball, power through the middle of the pitch and slam it in the top left corner. "
It's not his job to do what. Control and dictate the midfield. Every game you'd watch Xavi, he'd control the midfield.
One step ahead of everyone.
Running and scoring a goal? Gerrard's an attacking mid. That's a bonus.
"Which games did you see where that happened?"
It's happened over the years. So many games. Just have a look at the game against Arsenal.
He'd never touch the ball when Cesc was there.
Unfortunately Gerrard will have to wait until he retires before he is recognised, due to the hatred of all things Liverpool being at the highest peak I've witnessed and some who are unable to look past current ability when it comes to players who are in their final years.
Scholes and Gerrard would have made a brilliant pairing in fact.
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Best CM's ever?
Page 12 of 21
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posted on 4/9/12
"This is why Barca excell against teams who have these physical players. "
I don't get that. Chelsea and Inter beat them using physical tactics, Barca excel if you try and beat them at their own game and they just pick you off time and time again.
posted on 4/9/12
BusbysBabes (U9083)
I like a mix in my teams.
Going on the Prem my preferred midfield 3 would be (I don't really enjoy saying this)
--------------- Keane ---------------------
Gerrard ----------------- Scholes
The perfect balance.
posted on 4/9/12
In my opinion that is technique. Having that extra vision, that anticipation something is going to happen, having that spidey sense. You use that to implement into your physical body.
--
Debatable, but what I was referring to isn't strictly technique imo. If you watch Xavi play, he constantly looks around him, over his shoulder, left, right, 4, 5 times, then takes a step or two to make an extra yard of space for himself - he's almost always aware of where a challenge is going to come from and maneouvres accordingly to put himself at an advantage - this latter part is technique imo, but it's the combination of awareness, anticipation and technique that make it so difficult to dispossess him.
In recent years I'd say he's second only to Zidane in awareness and anticipation - maybe even on the same level, but Zidane had one of the best first touches ever.
Although Xavi does have the ability to pull off a great flick, backheel etc. from time to time, but his general repertoire of moves is generally quite simple. That said, using the simplest of technique to the greatest possible effect is also a fantastic attribute and something that's very hard to come by in football imo.
posted on 4/9/12
Dubbed The New Wenger -Sancti Cazorla (U9163)
Again -
No-one has said that.
posted on 4/9/12
Ninja
Busbybabes is spot on here. Mental attributes are not classed as technique.
Technique is the ability to execute high quality moves. Creativity and intelligence increases it.
posted on 4/9/12
Debatable, but what I was referring to isn't strictly technique imo
------------------------
I truly believe that Xavi and co have spent a lot of time studying the art of football and training thier mental side to compliment and enhance the technical side.
posted on 4/9/12
I don't get that. Chelsea and Inter beat them using physical tactics, Barca excel if you try and beat them at their own game and they just pick you off time and time again.
---
I wouldn't say Chelsea beat them playing physically, but by placing two banks of men on the edge of the box to deny them every possible inch of space in between the lines.
As for Inter, it's quite likely that they profited from Barça arriving at the San Siro off the back of a 17-hour coach ride.
Nevertheless, they're only 2 instances out of hundreds of games.
posted on 4/9/12
Some would disagree but IMO Gerrard was better than Scholes at his peak. Gerrard was just totally unplayable. I do know Scholes dominated teams as hell and was probably better than Gerrard over a longer period.
I agree people are now so obsessed with technique and dribbling. Having said that I think Xavi is the best ever CM Imo. I wouldn't class Iniesta as your everyday CM but he's up there with the best ever.
posted on 4/9/12
Too many goodies to argue about...some shouldn't be on the list.
posted on 4/9/12
Ninja
Busbybabes is spot on here. Mental attributes are not classed as technique.
--------------------------------
I understand your points but i feel the technique derives from the source which is the mind, it helps, nurtures and grows the technique. Very rarely is someone just born with perfect technique, it is worked on and then through your mind you perfect it.
posted on 4/9/12
comment by Robbing_Hoody I taught Reina to flap (U6374)
posted 34 minutes ago
Elvis (U7425)
So let me get this right. Gerrard is not in the same class because he did not win the league on his own but players that play alongside RvN, Cantona, Beckham, Giggs, Keane and Ronaldo are.
Gotcha.
No offence but you literally know nothing about football if you think that.
---------------------------------
Where did you get that from? Did I say anything of the sort?
In my opinion, it is the fact that when the tempo of the game does not suit his style, the game passes him by, that prevents him being in the same class as Scholes.
Stop putting words in my mouth.
posted on 4/9/12
"This is why Barca excell against teams who have these physical players. "
Yes, of course.
But saying Gerrard was not world class because he relied more heavily on physicality rather than technique is nonsense.
posted on 4/9/12
Elvis;
Probably this bit;
"However, the fact that he could inspire them to cups, but not the league kind of emphasises my view "
posted on 4/9/12
If you look and how what is around you, it gives you that extra second because you know what you are going to do. This is completely mental and nothing to do with technique, you don't even have the ball at this point.
It's like picking a pass, certain players like Pirlo see passes nobody else would dream of, but technique is the actually delivery of the pass, not the seeing it.
As mentioned above players like Scholes and Xavi do this all the time.
posted on 4/9/12
"Nevertheless, they're only 2 instances out of hundreds of games."
I only used those because they are the two most well known ones. Look at when Barca lose, the other team always play a physical game, even Madrid do it against them and have had far more success doing that than when they tried to match them like for like in terms of skill.
posted on 4/9/12
-bloodred- (U1222)
posted 56 seconds ago
"This is why Barca excell against teams who have these physical players. "
Yes, of course.
But saying Gerrard was not world class because he relied more heavily on physicality rather than technique is nonsense.
Gerrard in his prime was up there with the best of his era, no doubt.
posted on 4/9/12
"Some would disagree but IMO Gerrard was better than Scholes at his peak."
As much as I admire Gerrard as a player, I think that is an insane thing to say.
posted on 4/9/12
Over the years, I've seen Gerrard get outclassed by faceless Italian players.
Players with basic ability and above average technique.
He just can't dictate the tempo or dominate a game like a Cesc, Iniesta or a Scholes.
posted on 4/9/12
meltonblue (U10617)
posted 27 seconds ago
"Nevertheless, they're only 2 instances out of hundreds of games."
I only used those because they are the two most well known ones. Look at when Barca lose, the other team always play a physical game, even Madrid do it against them and have had far more success doing that than when they tried to match them like for like in terms of skill.
__________________________________________
Personally I'd put it more down to tactics than being physical.
Barca are often pressd all over the pitch and kicked in the air throughout a game and win.
posted on 4/9/12
Dubbed The New Wenger -Sancti Cazorla (U9163)
It's not his job to do that. Different type of player. I've not seen Scholes win the ball, power through the middle of the pitch and slam it in the top left corner.
Which games did you see where that happened?
posted on 4/9/12
If you look and how what is around you, it gives you that extra second because you know what you are going to do. This is completely mental and nothing to do with technique, you don't even have the ball at this point.
It's like picking a pass, certain players like Pirlo see passes nobody else would dream of, but technique is the actually delivery of the pass, not the seeing it.
As mentioned above players like Scholes and Xavi do this all the time.
-----------------------------
That technique has come from mental learning and growth.
We will just have to agree to disagree on this one, there is many schools of thought on such issues!
posted on 4/9/12
Good Article Ninja
posted on 4/9/12
"It's not his job to do that. Different type of player. I've not seen Scholes win the ball, power through the middle of the pitch and slam it in the top left corner. "
It's not his job to do what. Control and dictate the midfield. Every game you'd watch Xavi, he'd control the midfield.
One step ahead of everyone.
Running and scoring a goal? Gerrard's an attacking mid. That's a bonus.
"Which games did you see where that happened?"
It's happened over the years. So many games. Just have a look at the game against Arsenal.
He'd never touch the ball when Cesc was there.
posted on 4/9/12
Unfortunately Gerrard will have to wait until he retires before he is recognised, due to the hatred of all things Liverpool being at the highest peak I've witnessed and some who are unable to look past current ability when it comes to players who are in their final years.
posted on 4/9/12
Scholes and Gerrard would have made a brilliant pairing in fact.
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