comment by M.U.D.D - Luke Shaw makes me throb with desire (U9612)
posted 6 minutes ago
No one has asked you to be specific. They have asked you to explain what you have posted.
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how many times do want me to repeat parrot fashion the same thing manx when none of us are privy to what goes on between mclaren and honda

comment by M.U.D.D - Luke Shaw makes me throb with desire (U9612)
posted 2 minutes ago
Martial, I am not insulting you. My apologies if you think I am. I am just reacting to what you post. I generally call a spade a spade.


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whatever manx ----- you want to have a little tantrum at me you go right ahead ,
----------------------- some of us dont need to do it

comment by martial artist (U9033)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by N_six0six (U13776)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by martial artist (U9033)
posted 1 minute ago

dear dear me nsix

another longwinded gettysburg address of pure desperation when you have lost

all i have ever said is i believe mclaren have a reasonable knowledge of the PU
-------------- nothing more ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- nothing less

=======================================

Please specify what I have lost, are you saying the single point I've been debating is wrong?

Well you must be if you think I've lost. Which means you think Mercedes have been charitable and told McLaren all about their PU. Deary me, that is a fantasy would you live in

Want to dodge any more? Every dodge confirms my points you realise so be my guest

----------------------------------------------------------------------

reasonable knowledge of the PU
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------nothing more --------------------------------------------------------------------and ----------------------------------------------------------------------nothing less

===================================

So how have I lost the argument? Or was that you just lashing out as you couldn't counter my simple argument

diggy diggy hole

Best not go back and start quoting you I suppose, I've found some gems.

Seems you have yet again failed to deal with me, and what was a clear and simple argument from the start

comment by N_six0six (U13776)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by martial artist (U9033)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by N_six0six (U13776)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by martial artist (U9033)
posted 1 minute ago

dear dear me nsix

another longwinded gettysburg address of pure desperation when you have lost

all i have ever said is i believe mclaren have a reasonable knowledge of the PU
-------------- nothing more ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- nothing less

=======================================

Please specify what I have lost, are you saying the single point I've been debating is wrong?

Well you must be if you think I've lost. Which means you think Mercedes have been charitable and told McLaren all about their PU. Deary me, that is a fantasy would you live in

Want to dodge any more? Every dodge confirms my points you realise so be my guest

----------------------------------------------------------------------

reasonable knowledge of the PU
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------nothing more --------------------------------------------------------------------and ----------------------------------------------------------------------nothing less

===================================

So how have I lost the argument? Or was that you just lashing out as you couldn't counter my simple argument

diggy diggy hole

Best not go back and start quoting you I suppose, I've found some gems.

Seems you have yet again failed to deal with me, and what was a clear and simple argument from the start

----------------------------------------------------------------------

you had no argument because all i have said is ----------------------------------------------mclaren have reasonable knowledge of the PU -

------------ nothing more nothing less and the best thing is you cannot counter it with anything hence the desperation

Oh Martial, let's start with my initial point.

================

comment by N_six0six (U13776)
posted 1 day, 2 hours ago
I think theres a fairly major point being missed here. Regardless of whether McLaren passed information onto Honda or not they do not know how the Mercedes PU works. Yes they can see what the engine physically looks like but we all know that by now, it get snapped every Thursday at Grand Prix's.

Only Mercedes really knows whats going on inside and with the control units. Yes Honda can build a engine that 'looks' the same, but to build one that is the same, well that's another story. I feel this simple point has been somewhat ignored irrationally

Plus Honda-McLaren was announced in May 2013, so unless they threw away a years worth of work they won't have been entirely copying what the Merecedes lump 'looks' like.

================

So that where I started in this. Yet you are now saying I lost the argument. So surely that means you disagree?

Your silly comments about desperation are just demeaning you. Try and stick with this simple debate mate

What exactly have I said thats wrong, and therefore 'lost' the debate?

Try a mature response

comment by N_six0six (U13776)
posted 5 minutes ago
Oh Martial, let's start with my initial point.

================

comment by N_six0six (U13776)
posted 1 day, 2 hours ago
I think theres a fairly major point being missed here. Regardless of whether McLaren passed information onto Honda or not they do not know how the Mercedes PU works. Yes they can see what the engine physically looks like but we all know that by now, it get snapped every Thursday at Grand Prix's.

Only Mercedes really knows whats going on inside and with the control units. Yes Honda can build a engine that 'looks' the same, but to build one that is the same, well that's another story. I feel this simple point has been somewhat ignored irrationally

Plus Honda-McLaren was announced in May 2013, so unless they threw away a years worth of work they won't have been entirely copying what the Merecedes lump 'looks' like.

================

So that where I started in this. Yet you are now saying I lost the argument. So surely that means you disagree?

Your silly comments about desperation are just demeaning you. Try and stick with this simple debate mate

What exactly have I said thats wrong, and therefore 'lost' the debate?

Try a mature response
----------------------------------------------------------------------

dear dear me -- another longwinded gettysburg address of desperation -

all i have said is mclaren would have had reasonable * note the word reasonable *knowledge of the PU which is a reasonable assumption to make given there nearly 50 year background of working with engine manufactures and there brilliant heritage within F1 -

------------------ nothing more nothing less

The only thing desperate here is your wriggling

You say I've lost the argument, come on then, grow a backbone and tell me what is wrong with my argument. From the very start my point has been the same whilst you have wandered all over the place.

For example,
Martial-
"so mclaren who work with the unit and its systems , and by definition have to know how it works "

So they know how it works, or is that no longer true?

How many more chances do you need to redeem yourself? What in my argument have you disproved to mean I lost? You're the one who disagreed with me after all, no one else

Every dodge you make helps prove my point.

comment by N_six0six (U13776)
posted 13 minutes ago
The only thing desperate here is your wriggling

You say I've lost the argument, come on then, grow a backbone and tell me what is wrong with my argument. From the very start my point has been the same whilst you have wandered all over the place.

For example,
Martial-
"so mclaren who work with the unit and its systems , and by definition have to know how it works "

So they know how it works, or is that no longer true?

How many more chances do you need to redeem yourself? What in my argument have you disproved to mean I lost? You're the one who disagreed with me after all, no one else

Every dodge you make helps prove my point.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

oh dear -- the desperation gets more longwinded everytime -

you have no argument if you dont think mclaren have a reasonable knowledge ( again note the word reasonable )of the engine that they use in there car as that would seem to be your opinion -

and ----------- all i have ever said is mclaren would have a reasonable knowledge of the engine that they use in there car -

---------------- nothing more nothing less

I'd hardly call my post long winded, in fact it was short and to the point, didn't want to confuse you

So we are at the point now where I'll just have to assume whats going on in your head. All I have said from the start can be seen in my post above "Regardless of whether McLaren passed information onto Honda or not they do not know how the Mercedes PU works".

You said I have lost the argument which means you disagree with that statement, or it was a desperate attempt to back out of the fact you realised you couldn't prove me wrong.

Do you agree with the statement or not? Simple question, thats all my point is. Deal with it

comment by N_six0six (U13776)
posted 2 minutes ago
I'd hardly call my post long winded, in fact it was short and to the point, didn't want to confuse you

So we are at the point now where I'll just have to assume whats going on in your head. All I have said from the start can be seen in my post above "Regardless of whether McLaren passed information onto Honda or not they do not know how the Mercedes PU works".

You said I have lost the argument which means you disagree with that statement, or it was a desperate attempt to back out of the fact you realised you couldn't prove me wrong.

Do you agree with the statement or not? Simple question, thats all my point is. Deal with it
----------------------------------------------------------------------

oh dear -- another longwinded load of desperation followed by the usual idiotic question -

as i said -- all i have ever said is mclaren would have had a reasonable knowledge of the PU as it was installed in there car on there systems with there multi zillion state of the art computers linked to those systems -

------------------ and despite the usual desperation , straw clutching , silly questions , as yet you have not put forward any argument as to why they would not have had a reasonable knowledge -
------------------------- really is that simple

So for future reference six sentences is too much for you to deal with, gotcha

I'll skip over your question dodging waffle to save longwindedness.

So by dodging the question I can only assume you said I lost the argument out of desperate as you couldn't make a counter argument to my point. That's a fairly childish move Martial, sorry to say it!

You're trying to get out of it by making me argue something I have never claimed. You're the one who disagreed with me then couldn't back it up

Is this one of those times I can tell you to back your mouth up? Whatever that means

comment by N_six0six (U13776)
posted 20 minutes ago
So for future reference six sentences is too much for you to deal with, gotcha

I'll skip over your question dodging waffle to save longwindedness.

So by dodging the question I can only assume you said I lost the argument out of desperate as you couldn't make a counter argument to my point. That's a fairly childish move Martial, sorry to say it!

You're trying to get out of it by making me argue something I have never claimed. You're the one who disagreed with me then couldn't back it up

Is this one of those times I can tell you to back your mouth up? Whatever that means
----------------------------------------------------------------------

oh dear -- starting to get " uppity " are we -

so what are you actually claiming or even arguing about if you now agree that mclaren had a reasonable knowledge of the PU which it seems you are -

your desperation is starting to cloud what you are actually arguing about

Stay on track Martial, you're really losing it now, think you should head to bed and re-try this in the morning, you're certainly struggling.

Why are you now dodging the thing you've argued with me about all day? My point has been the same since the start whilst you've been all over the place. You're using the word reasonable now like it's going to save you

You said I lost the argument but yet you won't even address my argument, let alone disprove it.

Come on chap, grow a backbone for us, why did you say I lost the argument, don't be a chicken mate.

You disagree? Desperate? Didn't know what you were debating? Know nothing about F1?

Pick something, try and save some face

comment by N_six0six (U13776)
posted 23 minutes ago
Stay on track Martial, you're really losing it now, think you should head to bed and re-try this in the morning, you're certainly struggling.

Why are you now dodging the thing you've argued with me about all day? My point has been the same since the start whilst you've been all over the place. You're using the word reasonable now like it's going to save you

You said I lost the argument but yet you won't even address my argument, let alone disprove it.

Come on chap, grow a backbone for us, why did you say I lost the argument, don't be a chicken mate.

You disagree? Desperate? Didn't know what you were debating? Know nothing about F1?

Pick something, try and save some face
----------------------------------------------------------------------

oh dear --- the usual running away tactics -

come on then lets start again --- what exactly is your point if you dont agree that mclaren had a reasonable knowledge of the PU -

my point has always been the same that mclaren had a reasonable knowledge of the PU , not the same expert knowledge as merc but a reasonable knowledge -

-------------- start again stating clearly and specifically what your point is minus the running away tactics so we both know exactly what your point is and can debate on it properly -
------------------ savvy

So you've been arguing with me all night and only now admit to not understanding my point? How are we supposed to take you seriously if you'll argue something for hours without even knowing what you are on about

So this proves you only said I lost as a desperate attempt to avoid what's just happened, you having to admit that you don't know what you are on about, comical

So then..... lets see if you can understand the third time round, hopefully cutting out your silly little games.

---
comment by N_six0six (U13776)
posted 1 day, 2 hours ago
I think theres a fairly major point being missed here. Regardless of whether McLaren passed information onto Honda or not they do not know how the Mercedes PU works. Yes they can see what the engine physically looks like but we all know that by now, it get snapped every Thursday at Grand Prix's.

Only Mercedes really knows whats going on inside and with the control units. Yes Honda can build a engine that 'looks' the same, but to build one that is the same, well that's another story. I feel this simple point has been somewhat ignored irrationally

Plus Honda-McLaren was announced in May 2013, so unless they threw away a years worth of work they won't have been entirely copying what the Merecedes lump 'looks' like.
---



Now no running way from this Martial. This time if you don't understand be specific about it

comment by N_six0six (U13776)
posted 13 minutes ago
So you've been arguing with me all night and only now admit to not understanding my point? How are we supposed to take you seriously if you'll argue something for hours without even knowing what you are on about

So this proves you only said I lost as a desperate attempt to avoid what's just happened, you having to admit that you don't know what you are on about, comical

So then..... lets see if you can understand the third time round, hopefully cutting out your silly little games.

---
comment by N_six0six (U13776)
posted 1 day, 2 hours ago
I think theres a fairly major point being missed here. Regardless of whether McLaren passed information onto Honda or not they do not know how the Mercedes PU works. Yes they can see what the engine physically looks like but we all know that by now, it get snapped every Thursday at Grand Prix's.

Only Mercedes really knows whats going on inside and with the control units. Yes Honda can build a engine that 'looks' the same, but to build one that is the same, well that's another story. I feel this simple point has been somewhat ignored irrationally

Plus Honda-McLaren was announced in May 2013, so unless they threw away a years worth of work they won't have been entirely copying what the Merecedes lump 'looks' like.
---



Now no running way from this Martial. This time if you don't understand be specific about it


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at least you didnt run away like you normally do


however -------------------- basically you are saying that you dont think mclaren have the foggiest idea how the PU actually works despite having worked with it and mercedes for over a year and having it attached to just about every other system in there car which is attached to there high powered computers -

-------- so basically i am saying the opposite that mclaren would have had a reasonable knowledge of the PU after all the experience of working with it and you are saying that means nothing and they dont have the foggiest idea about it -
------------------------------------ gotcha

When have I run away in this argument... What's that, oh just you making it up as you go along again

McLaren cant see what the ecu and control electronics are doing, they can only see the Mercedes defined outputs. A PU is much more than a engine these days mate, Mercedes supply the whole lot.

The PU will be full of secrets that McLaren don't know about. You've yet to explain why Mercedes would allow McLaren to obtain this knowledge? They're rivals, rivals don't pass on trade secrets. Think logically, why would McLaren need to know how the PU works?

comment by N_six0six (U13776)
posted 3 minutes ago
When have I run away in this argument... What's that, oh just you making it up as you go along again

McLaren cant see what the ecu and control electronics are doing, they can only see the Mercedes defined outputs. A PU is much more than a engine these days mate, Mercedes supply the whole lot.

The PU will be full of secrets that McLaren don't know about. You've yet to explain why Mercedes would allow McLaren to obtain this knowledge? They're rivals, rivals don't pass on trade secrets. Think logically, why would McLaren need to know how the PU works?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

exactly what are these secrets that are so secret that mclaren would not know about when every detail about the PU is hooked up to one of there high powered computers that they have access to that is also hooked up to every other system in the car -

as for thinking logically --- mclaren would need to have a reasonable knowledge of the PU because it is connected to just about every other system of the car -

again ---- note the word reasonable

You really do like the word reasonable wonder why it joined us so late...

You're still not being logical, why would McLaren have to know how the PU works? Mercedes designed the control electronics so they're not going to allow McLaren to see anything they don't want them seeing.

At the end of the day McLaren will know only what Mercedes tell them. How the engine works is not something McLaren need. They just have Mercedes user interface to monitor parameters.

Think logically. Do you understand where I'm coming from? How many systems in the car do you think there are related to the engine outside Mercedes control electronics? What do they have to go go through... Mercedes controlled parts

MA, I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I will get in touch with an ex colleague who currently works at Mclaren in Woking, and also a person who works where I currently work who has worked for Mclaren as a mechanic, but still has friends in the pit crews. I will ask them both what sort of information they get from Mercedes about the workings of the PU. Stuff that would be useful to Honda. My guess is, nothing worthwhile.

Now, now, go duracellenergizerbunny, what is this twaddle you speak. You are blowing hot air up my arris. No one here knows anything about motorsport. Are you going to google some fairy tale to post here and act like a big wheel or banana?

Why are you claiming to be a McLaren tycoon and claim to employ 50000 people.

I am not that easily fooled by such goggleygook. Even Monaco tried to fool me by claiming to be high downforce but I have disproved it with why whims and razor sharp wit

So RED BULL NOTHING WITHOUT VETTEL ? Has become HONDA NOTHING WITHOUT McLAREN ?

comment by go-cellino-go (U6730)
posted 13 hours, 2 minutes ago
MA, I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I will get in touch with an ex colleague who currently works at Mclaren in Woking, and also a person who works where I currently work who has worked for Mclaren as a mechanic, but still has friends in the pit crews. I will ask them both what sort of information they get from Mercedes about the workings of the PU. Stuff that would be useful to Honda. My guess is, nothing worthwhile.

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and i am that gullible that i am going to believe that you just happen to know people that work in current F1 and they can tell you in depth about the most sophisticated engine on the planet -
-------------------------------- do you really think we have all just stepped off a banana boat on here

comment by M.U.D.D - Luke Shaw makes me throb with desire (U9612)
posted 12 hours, 55 minutes ago
Now, now, go duracellenergizerbunny, what is this twaddle you speak. You are blowing hot air up my arris. No one here knows anything about motorsport. Are you going to google some fairy tale to post here and act like a big wheel or banana?

Why are you claiming to be a McLaren tycoon and claim to employ 50000 people.

I am not that easily fooled by such goggleygook. Even Monaco tried to fool me by claiming to be high downforce but I have disproved it with why whims and razor sharp wit
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done any big oil deals today manx

MA I said I work with an ex Mclaren mechanic, not current F1.
I also said I know someone who works at Mclaren, he is their FM manager, not F1.
However they know people who are in F1.
As I have told you before I also do occasional work at the Red Bull factory in MK and at the Merc engine facilty in Brixworth.
Why do you doubt everything people say on here. We don't ALL make things up you know.