comment by Boca Seniors (U19731)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
Watched Joao Gomes of Flamengo in the copa libertadores final in the weekend and the guy did an excellent job in midfield. Vitor Roque is another great talent and played in that game and looks a good player in the mould of Jesus.
We need to gamble on those players before they get expensive.
=====
They'd kinda be similar with Elliot and Jones.
I think we need established players at the top of their game, not prospects that might not transition from SA to Europe. Some players bought directly from these clubs are never heard from again, but some can succeed of course.
We need to sign players who can go straight into the team, like when we signed VVD and Allison, not players that could take years to settle in Europe. Even Coutinho took his time to do that.
The higher fees you pay is because the player has successfully transitioned into European football. Pay extra to avoid the risk of a failed transition.
If FSG signed these guys, there'd be hell to pay if results don't improve. Unless they're not being signed as starters, and we also sign players to start games then it's a terrible idea IMO.
He does but the same way he can't force us to bring in players he wants, he also can't force sales.
===========
Nah I am not having that. Manager can easily force players out, it happens all the time.
Bullsheet.
Managers cannot easily force players out. It happens, but it's not easy and it can come with collateral damage and bad relationships.
It's not a role I want the manager playing at Liverpool for sure.
In fact, it is more often that managers have to keep and make do with some players they had indicated could be sold, but the club couldn't get a deal done.
Nonsense. Players can be put in the reserves and all sorts.
I am not saying they draw up the contracts, no-one is saying that, but the fact that Klopp bombed out Sakho in about ten minutes for turning up late to training seems at odds with what you're writing.
I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think Klopp is very well…. He looks ( and has for some time now ) unwell.
Maybe it’s just stress or long covid or whatever, but his energy ain’t what it was. Maybe this would explain Pep having more say in training sessions as rumours suggest.
Attitude/mentality is definitely the key issue I think. It's been off ever since the 1st game of the season when we looked like we expected to turn up at Fulham and win.
From there it's snowballed and you can see the players getting rattled every time we concede a goal or don't get a referee's decision, as well as constantly making the wrong decisions in front of goal.
The performances on the whole haven't actually been that bad, we've played like we did against Forest and Leeds often over the years. The difference is compared to the 18/19 season for example, v Forest VVD powers his header in at 0-0 instead of trying to set up Firmino, and v Leeds Gomez doesn't gift them a 1-0 lead after 3 minutes.
The Tchouameni thing was weird. In previous seasons if we didn't get our #1 target we would move for a backup option. Think Jota for Werner, Wijnaldum for Zielinski, Mane for Gotze etc. Seems like it was Tchou or bust this summer seeing as Bellingham was off the table from the start. Hopefully this isn't a change in approach with Edwards leaving - guess we'll see with time.
It's almost as if being in a position of strength is new ground for the club and the decision makers didn't know what to do in the summer. Or they just grossly overestimated the reliability of Keita and Ox and put too much faith in the kids. Feels like the attitude was we needed to put out eggs in one basket and make a VVD/Alisson style signing for the midfield instead of going for the more under the radar options which have served us well since Klopp joined.
Top 4 is gone now in my opinion. Not that it's impossible to get there mathematically but clearly we're going to keep dropping points when a top 4 side shouldn't for the rest of the season. Frustrating really because none of the other sides except City are anything special at the moment. We're just worse. I'm including Arsenal in that btw, I think we'll start to see them dropping points fairly regularly in the new year.
Honestly, given the state of the squad I think we'll be looking at Europa next season and need to start planning as such. No point giving minutes to Keita and Ox now as we know their limitations and that they won't be here next year - I'd rather Bajcetic, Doak, Cannoneer etc. got the minutes to see if they're realistic long term options.
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
Bullsheet.
Managers cannot easily force players out. It happens, but it's not easy and it can come with collateral damage and bad relationships.
It's not a role I want the manager playing at Liverpool for sure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sakho and Benteke?
comment by Robbing Hoody (U6374)
posted 34 seconds ago
Nonsense. Players can be put in the reserves and all sorts.
I am not saying they draw up the contracts, no-one is saying that, but the fact that Klopp bombed out Sakho in about ten minutes for turning up late to training seems at odds with what you're writing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, it's not at odds with what I'm saying. I said it happens but is rare and isn't smooth sailing.
We've also signed probably hundreds of players under Klopp and this has only happened with Sakho, so that's a very rare occurrence, and some special conditions for it to actually happen.
Sakho was punished for being repeatedly late for training and being a bad smell in the changing room. He also talked smack when they tried to talk to him.
Are you saying there's players in our squad that we should put through what we did Sakho? What have they done to deserve that extreme reaction?
If the manager doesn't want a player he informs the transfer teams and leaves them to sort it out.
Furthermore, sending a player to the reserves doesn't guarantee they will be sold. Some still stay and that's bad for the team.
You also lose a lot of value for that player.
It just a stupid way to go about things. That's why it doesn't happen very often.
No, it's not at odds with what I'm saying. I said it happens but is rare and isn't smooth sailing.
-------------
You literally said it was bullsh!t so I didn't bother reading the rest.
One thing I will give FSG credit for is that they seem to learn well from their mistakes. They'll get burned financially for a season outside of the CL (unless we somehow manage to win it this season - doubtful!) which will hurt more in the long run than investing in the squad this summer would have done.
Whether they're interested in investing any of their own money into the club rather than the club's transfer activities being self-sustaining is another matter. May have to look at selling a big name in the summer if we want to significantly rebuild the squad.
comment by Alisson Wonderland (Formerly LGT) (U13718)
posted 6 minutes ago
The Tchouameni thing was weird. In previous seasons if we didn't get our #1 target we would move for a backup option. Think Jota for Werner, Wijnaldum for Zielinski, Mane for Gotze etc. Seems like it was Tchou or bust this summer seeing as Bellingham was off the table from the start. Hopefully this isn't a change in approach with Edwards leaving - guess we'll see with time.
====
How sure are you we were after Werner?
I reckon if we wanted Werner we would have probably got him. He made no secret of his desire to join Liverpool. He was in the media everyday. That was actually strange as players don't often declare the way he did. His transfer fee was within our range. We had enough time to go for him but I don't remember us being in negotiations or anything like that tbh.
Jota on the other hand happened quickly, typical of our transfers. I don't think Werner was first choice, if he was we would have got him IMO.
Not sure Klopp was ever interested in Goetze either. Just my opinion though, I'm not stating this as fact.
comment by Robbing Hoody (U6374)
posted 4 minutes ago
No, it's not at odds with what I'm saying. I said it happens but is rare and isn't smooth sailing.
-------------
You literally said it was bullsh!t so I didn't bother reading the rest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No what's bullsheet is your statement that managers can easily force players out.
They can, but it's hardly ever easy, and can do more harm than good. That's why it's so rare.
Managers will prefer to covertly get rid of players, and even then, it's down to the club to negotiate a deal. That's why you don't publicise players you want gone. To protect their value and avoid tensions at the club.
And also because that player will stay with the team if a deal can't be made, and majority of the deals in football fall through.
All good mamba, all healthy discussion
I found the Gotze to Mane switch weird given that they aren't exactly similar in playing style. Klopp was definitely keen on Brandt though before being convinced Salah was a better option by the scouting team!
Klopp managed to change every single member of the squad bar Milner, Henderson, Trent and Firmino in the space of 5 windows but somehow, just by chance, he is unable to move on the two players he signed and has constantly backed one of whom hilariously got offered an extension.
Yeah that seems likely.
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
comment by Neo (U9135)
posted 4 hours, 16 minutes ago
He even criticised Klopp a bit
💬 @JamesPearceLFC: Jurgen Klopp should have been backed more but he’s not immune to criticism himself. There are squad players who have contributed nothing so far this season who really should have been moved on last summer. He wasn’t ruthless enough.
FSG Pearce will be losing his pre match pork pie if not careful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not Klopps job to sell players though.
The worst thing about performances being poor is all the hogwash I'm gonna have to read on here and in the media.
Feel like boycotting media as I'm not sure I can take another round of mass nonsense and stupidity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d say the disappointment of us losing is the worst bit of us losing, but each to their own.
If you can’t accept Klopp getting a bit of criticism for playing his part in our mess, perhaps this site or any football site isn’t for you really. So if your that sensitive to the point a few words on a page, then yeah, crack on with your boycott, doubt many of us care either way.
Considering two of the last three seasons Klopp would be under intense pressure at pretty much any other elite club so mild criticism doesn't seem out of order really.
Literally no-one on this planet is above criticism tbh
There's a whole host of factors that should be considered for this season's start and preparation & tactics are two of them. That's on Klopp
Think we could do a lot worse than going back to the tried and tested 4-3-3 to be honest.
Get a midfield 3 of Hendo, Fab and Thiago, and play Nunez left wing for now until Diaz is back as he seems to naturally drift left anyway.
Harsh on the likes of Elliott but we need to go back to being solid first and foremost.
I don't even know if the 433 will work.
The problem is only pressing in a mid to low block and individual or light pressing structures instead of pressing as a team with 5 or 6 players from the front
Diaz - Nunez- Salah works as a front 3.
All can press, and get Hendo, Fab and Thiago in behind.
Obviosly Diaz is out for now, but that could work,
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 4 minutes ago
Think we could do a lot worse than going back to the tried and tested 4-3-3 to be honest.
Get a midfield 3 of Hendo, Fab and Thiago, and play Nunez left wing for now until Diaz is back as he seems to naturally drift left anyway.
Harsh on the likes of Elliott but we need to go back to being solid first and foremost.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wouldn't be against this and don't think Elliot even needs dropping. The system can change easily enough. Don't give Trent the freedom of Anfield and there is nothing to stop Elliot playing on the left of the three either.
Got about four games until the window opens plus Jota and Diaz back. In my head everything is in the bin until then.
comment by Neo (U9135)
posted 54 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
comment by Neo (U9135)
posted 4 hours, 16 minutes ago
He even criticised Klopp a bit
💬 @JamesPearceLFC: Jurgen Klopp should have been backed more but he’s not immune to criticism himself. There are squad players who have contributed nothing so far this season who really should have been moved on last summer. He wasn’t ruthless enough.
FSG Pearce will be losing his pre match pork pie if not careful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not Klopps job to sell players though.
The worst thing about performances being poor is all the hogwash I'm gonna have to read on here and in the media.
Feel like boycotting media as I'm not sure I can take another round of mass nonsense and stupidity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d say the disappointment of us losing is the worst bit of us losing, but each to their own.
If you can’t accept Klopp getting a bit of criticism for playing his part in our mess, perhaps this site or any football site isn’t for you really. So if your that sensitive to the point a few words on a page, then yeah, crack on with your boycott, doubt many of us care either way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can take criticism of Klopp fine. I have my own criticisms of him. What I find pointless and taking away from the debate is that people inevitably get carried away as results get worse and the next thing you know Klopp is responsible for world poverty or some similarly impossible sheet and at that point there's literally usually no debate being had.
Also, let's not pretend that a couple or so posters on here don't have their knives drawn for Klopp already. Always been the case that an apple a day kept the doctor away, until you run out of apples.
Sign in if you want to comment
LFC Tranny Thread
Page 6461 of 8373
6462 | 6463 | 6464 | 6465 | 6466
posted on 31/10/22
comment by Boca Seniors (U19731)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
Watched Joao Gomes of Flamengo in the copa libertadores final in the weekend and the guy did an excellent job in midfield. Vitor Roque is another great talent and played in that game and looks a good player in the mould of Jesus.
We need to gamble on those players before they get expensive.
=====
They'd kinda be similar with Elliot and Jones.
I think we need established players at the top of their game, not prospects that might not transition from SA to Europe. Some players bought directly from these clubs are never heard from again, but some can succeed of course.
We need to sign players who can go straight into the team, like when we signed VVD and Allison, not players that could take years to settle in Europe. Even Coutinho took his time to do that.
The higher fees you pay is because the player has successfully transitioned into European football. Pay extra to avoid the risk of a failed transition.
If FSG signed these guys, there'd be hell to pay if results don't improve. Unless they're not being signed as starters, and we also sign players to start games then it's a terrible idea IMO.
posted on 31/10/22
He does but the same way he can't force us to bring in players he wants, he also can't force sales.
===========
Nah I am not having that. Manager can easily force players out, it happens all the time.
posted on 31/10/22
Bullsheet.
Managers cannot easily force players out. It happens, but it's not easy and it can come with collateral damage and bad relationships.
It's not a role I want the manager playing at Liverpool for sure.
posted on 31/10/22
In fact, it is more often that managers have to keep and make do with some players they had indicated could be sold, but the club couldn't get a deal done.
posted on 31/10/22
Nonsense. Players can be put in the reserves and all sorts.
I am not saying they draw up the contracts, no-one is saying that, but the fact that Klopp bombed out Sakho in about ten minutes for turning up late to training seems at odds with what you're writing.
posted on 31/10/22
I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think Klopp is very well…. He looks ( and has for some time now ) unwell.
Maybe it’s just stress or long covid or whatever, but his energy ain’t what it was. Maybe this would explain Pep having more say in training sessions as rumours suggest.
posted on 31/10/22
Attitude/mentality is definitely the key issue I think. It's been off ever since the 1st game of the season when we looked like we expected to turn up at Fulham and win.
From there it's snowballed and you can see the players getting rattled every time we concede a goal or don't get a referee's decision, as well as constantly making the wrong decisions in front of goal.
The performances on the whole haven't actually been that bad, we've played like we did against Forest and Leeds often over the years. The difference is compared to the 18/19 season for example, v Forest VVD powers his header in at 0-0 instead of trying to set up Firmino, and v Leeds Gomez doesn't gift them a 1-0 lead after 3 minutes.
posted on 31/10/22
The Tchouameni thing was weird. In previous seasons if we didn't get our #1 target we would move for a backup option. Think Jota for Werner, Wijnaldum for Zielinski, Mane for Gotze etc. Seems like it was Tchou or bust this summer seeing as Bellingham was off the table from the start. Hopefully this isn't a change in approach with Edwards leaving - guess we'll see with time.
It's almost as if being in a position of strength is new ground for the club and the decision makers didn't know what to do in the summer. Or they just grossly overestimated the reliability of Keita and Ox and put too much faith in the kids. Feels like the attitude was we needed to put out eggs in one basket and make a VVD/Alisson style signing for the midfield instead of going for the more under the radar options which have served us well since Klopp joined.
Top 4 is gone now in my opinion. Not that it's impossible to get there mathematically but clearly we're going to keep dropping points when a top 4 side shouldn't for the rest of the season. Frustrating really because none of the other sides except City are anything special at the moment. We're just worse. I'm including Arsenal in that btw, I think we'll start to see them dropping points fairly regularly in the new year.
Honestly, given the state of the squad I think we'll be looking at Europa next season and need to start planning as such. No point giving minutes to Keita and Ox now as we know their limitations and that they won't be here next year - I'd rather Bajcetic, Doak, Cannoneer etc. got the minutes to see if they're realistic long term options.
posted on 31/10/22
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
Bullsheet.
Managers cannot easily force players out. It happens, but it's not easy and it can come with collateral damage and bad relationships.
It's not a role I want the manager playing at Liverpool for sure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sakho and Benteke?
posted on 31/10/22
comment by Robbing Hoody (U6374)
posted 34 seconds ago
Nonsense. Players can be put in the reserves and all sorts.
I am not saying they draw up the contracts, no-one is saying that, but the fact that Klopp bombed out Sakho in about ten minutes for turning up late to training seems at odds with what you're writing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, it's not at odds with what I'm saying. I said it happens but is rare and isn't smooth sailing.
We've also signed probably hundreds of players under Klopp and this has only happened with Sakho, so that's a very rare occurrence, and some special conditions for it to actually happen.
Sakho was punished for being repeatedly late for training and being a bad smell in the changing room. He also talked smack when they tried to talk to him.
Are you saying there's players in our squad that we should put through what we did Sakho? What have they done to deserve that extreme reaction?
If the manager doesn't want a player he informs the transfer teams and leaves them to sort it out.
Furthermore, sending a player to the reserves doesn't guarantee they will be sold. Some still stay and that's bad for the team.
You also lose a lot of value for that player.
It just a stupid way to go about things. That's why it doesn't happen very often.
posted on 31/10/22
No, it's not at odds with what I'm saying. I said it happens but is rare and isn't smooth sailing.
-------------
You literally said it was bullsh!t so I didn't bother reading the rest.
posted on 31/10/22
One thing I will give FSG credit for is that they seem to learn well from their mistakes. They'll get burned financially for a season outside of the CL (unless we somehow manage to win it this season - doubtful!) which will hurt more in the long run than investing in the squad this summer would have done.
Whether they're interested in investing any of their own money into the club rather than the club's transfer activities being self-sustaining is another matter. May have to look at selling a big name in the summer if we want to significantly rebuild the squad.
posted on 31/10/22
comment by Alisson Wonderland (Formerly LGT) (U13718)
posted 6 minutes ago
The Tchouameni thing was weird. In previous seasons if we didn't get our #1 target we would move for a backup option. Think Jota for Werner, Wijnaldum for Zielinski, Mane for Gotze etc. Seems like it was Tchou or bust this summer seeing as Bellingham was off the table from the start. Hopefully this isn't a change in approach with Edwards leaving - guess we'll see with time.
====
How sure are you we were after Werner?
I reckon if we wanted Werner we would have probably got him. He made no secret of his desire to join Liverpool. He was in the media everyday. That was actually strange as players don't often declare the way he did. His transfer fee was within our range. We had enough time to go for him but I don't remember us being in negotiations or anything like that tbh.
Jota on the other hand happened quickly, typical of our transfers. I don't think Werner was first choice, if he was we would have got him IMO.
Not sure Klopp was ever interested in Goetze either. Just my opinion though, I'm not stating this as fact.
posted on 31/10/22
comment by Robbing Hoody (U6374)
posted 4 minutes ago
No, it's not at odds with what I'm saying. I said it happens but is rare and isn't smooth sailing.
-------------
You literally said it was bullsh!t so I didn't bother reading the rest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No what's bullsheet is your statement that managers can easily force players out.
They can, but it's hardly ever easy, and can do more harm than good. That's why it's so rare.
Managers will prefer to covertly get rid of players, and even then, it's down to the club to negotiate a deal. That's why you don't publicise players you want gone. To protect their value and avoid tensions at the club.
posted on 31/10/22
And also because that player will stay with the team if a deal can't be made, and majority of the deals in football fall through.
posted on 31/10/22
All good mamba, all healthy discussion
I found the Gotze to Mane switch weird given that they aren't exactly similar in playing style. Klopp was definitely keen on Brandt though before being convinced Salah was a better option by the scouting team!
posted on 31/10/22
Klopp managed to change every single member of the squad bar Milner, Henderson, Trent and Firmino in the space of 5 windows but somehow, just by chance, he is unable to move on the two players he signed and has constantly backed one of whom hilariously got offered an extension.
Yeah that seems likely.
posted on 31/10/22
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
comment by Neo (U9135)
posted 4 hours, 16 minutes ago
He even criticised Klopp a bit
💬 @JamesPearceLFC: Jurgen Klopp should have been backed more but he’s not immune to criticism himself. There are squad players who have contributed nothing so far this season who really should have been moved on last summer. He wasn’t ruthless enough.
FSG Pearce will be losing his pre match pork pie if not careful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not Klopps job to sell players though.
The worst thing about performances being poor is all the hogwash I'm gonna have to read on here and in the media.
Feel like boycotting media as I'm not sure I can take another round of mass nonsense and stupidity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d say the disappointment of us losing is the worst bit of us losing, but each to their own.
If you can’t accept Klopp getting a bit of criticism for playing his part in our mess, perhaps this site or any football site isn’t for you really. So if your that sensitive to the point a few words on a page, then yeah, crack on with your boycott, doubt many of us care either way.
posted on 31/10/22
Considering two of the last three seasons Klopp would be under intense pressure at pretty much any other elite club so mild criticism doesn't seem out of order really.
posted on 31/10/22
Literally no-one on this planet is above criticism tbh
There's a whole host of factors that should be considered for this season's start and preparation & tactics are two of them. That's on Klopp
posted on 31/10/22
Think we could do a lot worse than going back to the tried and tested 4-3-3 to be honest.
Get a midfield 3 of Hendo, Fab and Thiago, and play Nunez left wing for now until Diaz is back as he seems to naturally drift left anyway.
Harsh on the likes of Elliott but we need to go back to being solid first and foremost.
posted on 31/10/22
I don't even know if the 433 will work.
The problem is only pressing in a mid to low block and individual or light pressing structures instead of pressing as a team with 5 or 6 players from the front
posted on 31/10/22
Diaz - Nunez- Salah works as a front 3.
All can press, and get Hendo, Fab and Thiago in behind.
Obviosly Diaz is out for now, but that could work,
posted on 31/10/22
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 4 minutes ago
Think we could do a lot worse than going back to the tried and tested 4-3-3 to be honest.
Get a midfield 3 of Hendo, Fab and Thiago, and play Nunez left wing for now until Diaz is back as he seems to naturally drift left anyway.
Harsh on the likes of Elliott but we need to go back to being solid first and foremost.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wouldn't be against this and don't think Elliot even needs dropping. The system can change easily enough. Don't give Trent the freedom of Anfield and there is nothing to stop Elliot playing on the left of the three either.
Got about four games until the window opens plus Jota and Diaz back. In my head everything is in the bin until then.
posted on 31/10/22
comment by Neo (U9135)
posted 54 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
comment by Neo (U9135)
posted 4 hours, 16 minutes ago
He even criticised Klopp a bit
💬 @JamesPearceLFC: Jurgen Klopp should have been backed more but he’s not immune to criticism himself. There are squad players who have contributed nothing so far this season who really should have been moved on last summer. He wasn’t ruthless enough.
FSG Pearce will be losing his pre match pork pie if not careful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not Klopps job to sell players though.
The worst thing about performances being poor is all the hogwash I'm gonna have to read on here and in the media.
Feel like boycotting media as I'm not sure I can take another round of mass nonsense and stupidity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d say the disappointment of us losing is the worst bit of us losing, but each to their own.
If you can’t accept Klopp getting a bit of criticism for playing his part in our mess, perhaps this site or any football site isn’t for you really. So if your that sensitive to the point a few words on a page, then yeah, crack on with your boycott, doubt many of us care either way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can take criticism of Klopp fine. I have my own criticisms of him. What I find pointless and taking away from the debate is that people inevitably get carried away as results get worse and the next thing you know Klopp is responsible for world poverty or some similarly impossible sheet and at that point there's literally usually no debate being had.
Also, let's not pretend that a couple or so posters on here don't have their knives drawn for Klopp already. Always been the case that an apple a day kept the doctor away, until you run out of apples.
Page 6461 of 8373
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