I'm sure that Chairmen of football clubs across Europe are all rushing to get Barnes signed as their next manager with that attitude.
It's hard not to notice that Ramsey at QPR is in a position where he almost can't be criticised. Arry left him a massive task but their results under his tenure have incredibly taken a downturn. Yet he's not being criticised. Why is that?
You are right, he is a terrible manager.
I still think there is a bit of a race problem in English footy though.
He may not be a great manager but institutional racism is alive and well.
by Robbing_Hoody - putting the bureaucracy into footballism since 1979 (U6374)
posted 27 seconds ago
He may not be a great manager but institutional racism is alive and well.
==========
he's making an important point
comment by merrysupersteve (U1132)
posted 10 minutes ago
It's hard not to notice that Ramsey at QPR is in a position where he almost can't be criticised. Arry left him a massive task but their results under his tenure have incredibly taken a downturn. Yet he's not being criticised. Why is that?
*************************************************
Will be interesting to see what QPR do in the summer when they are relegated.
'Arry took over from Hughes with QPR in a similar position, couldn't avoid relegation but yet kept his job the following year.
I doubt Ramsey will be given that opportunity. You have to ask yourself, why not?
Unsure of Barnes as a manager, (ability) but when the amount of black players are taken into consideration, you have to query why there are so few black managers.
comment by Robbing_Hoody - putting the bureaucracy into footballism since 1979 (U6374)
posted 7 minutes ago
He may not be a great manager but institutional racism is alive and well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep.
Hopefully this is a generational thing and as soon as all these middle/upper class white folk in charge of stuff die off, things will change for the better.
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 2 minutes ago
he's making an important point
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It would make his argument more valid if he had even the slightest bit of success in management.
Claiming he can't get a job in management because of his skin colour can only be proved if he was the best man for the job and he still failed to get it.
Many white managers have failed at a club or 2 and never been considered again for a managers position.
I believe at Tranmere,both him and Jason Mcateer where known as dumb and dumber by all the players.
He was ballax at Celtic & Tranmere.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Humans tend to favour those who share common traits with them. It could be skin colour, religion, social class, caste, sports club etc.
What John said could be correct as at today. But such biases don't usually last for long especially given the type of capitalist society we live in.
If a black manager takes an English team to win the CL for example, black managers will suddenly become the next big thing. But because that has not happened, they will need to work hard to break into that closed shop called football management.
Such could be said of black footballers in the past as well.
We all tend to stick with the familiar.
Football management inclusive.
'Arry took over from Hughes with QPR in a similar position, couldn't avoid relegation but yet kept his job the following year.
I doubt Ramsey will be given that opportunity. You have to ask yourself, why not?
..............
Well, it could be as simple as the fact that Harry has a proven record in football management and Ramsey doesn't.
It only becomes a race issue if that is what you are looking for.
Greatteams beat me to it.
The whole Malky Mckay affair shows just how apparent Racism is in the game, what was it he texted "not many white faces in that lot"
Then tries to say it was "banter" (the worst word ever to be associated with football) and a private joke between friends.
It may well have been private etc. but it's clearly something Mckay thinks, he can deny it all he likes but it's obvious he thinks that way.
That's just an example that we heard of, you can only imagine how often similar things are said.
OP why do you feel it's such a big deal for Barnes to bring race into the discussion?
OP why do you feel it's such a big deal for Barnes to bring race into the discussion?
Maybe it could be because he has brought his skin colour as a reason for him not being able to get a job in management and hasn't bothered to bring up his 2 previous failed attempts at management as a possible reason.
While Barnes' time in charge of Celtic and Tranmere was nothing short of a facking disaster, I think he does make a valid point (sort of).
Many other white managers have had equally bad spells but always seem to get a second, third or fourth chance. Why is that?
comment by Wild_ Rover (U5211)
posted 55 seconds ago
While Barnes' time in charge of Celtic and Tranmere was nothing short of a facking disaster, I think he does make a valid point (sort of).
Many other white managers have had equally bad spells but always seem to get a second, third or fourth chance. Why is that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Might be worth looking at the amount of black people who have got all the badges to become managers but can't get jobs compared to white people.
Unless we get the full facts then we can't say their is inherent racism in the upper reaches of the sport or not
I can safely say it's in the upper reaches of our society though.
this hardly smacks of 'let go out and hire him'.
Celtic
In a "dream ticket" style move, Barnes was appointed head coach of Celtic for the 1999–2000 season, working under Kenny Dalglish as director of football. After his appointment he later re-registered himself as a player but never played a competitive game for Celtic. This much-hyped appointment was unsuccessful, however, and included a shock Scottish Cup defeat at the hands of Inverness Caledonian Thistle in February (which gave birth to the famous headline from The Sun: "Super Caley go ballistic, Celtic are atrocious". Barnes was sacked shortly afterwards, with Dalglish taking over first-team duties until the end of the season. Although Dalglish won the League Cup in the process, his contract was not renewed and the board decided to replace him with Martin O'Neill.
Jamaica
Barnes entered discussions with the Jamaica Football Federation in September 2008 regarding the possibility of him managing the Jamaica national team. On 16 September 2008, Barnes was appointed as manager of Jamaica announcing Mike Commane as his assistant. Barnes guided his new Jamaican charges to a first-place finish in the 2008 Caribbean Championships, qualifying as the top Caribbean side for the 2009 CONCACAF Gold Cup.
In February 2009, Barnes told Sky Sports that he wanted to return to club management if the opportunity arose. It was reported in May 2009 that Barnes contacted English League Two side Port Vale to see whether he could replace out-going manager Dean Glover. Ultimately, though, the potential move to Port Vale did not happen. Instead, on 14 June 2009 he confirmed that he was to be appointed manager of League One side Tranmere Rovers.
Tranmere Rovers
Barnes was officially named as manager of Tranmere Rovers on 15 June 2009, with Jason McAteer assisting him. He got off to a disastrous start, with Tranmere only winning three of their first fourteen games. During their time at Tranmere, Barnes and McAteer were allegedly dubbed "Dumb and Dumber" by the Tranmere players. On 9 October 2009, Barnes was sacked by the club six days after a 5–0 defeat at Millwall and a run of just two wins from eleven league games. He has since applied to become the manager of the Rwandan national team with Stephen Garside as his Youth Team Coach.
............
This suggests to me that Jonny boy isn't cut out for football management, and that race has nothing to do with it.
comment by Robbing_Hoody - putting the bureaucracy into footballism since 1979 (U6374)
posted 22 seconds ago
I can safely say it's in the upper reaches of our society though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All reaches of society and on both sides of the fence also
comment by merrysupersteve (U1132)
posted 48 minutes ago
It's hard not to notice that Ramsey at QPR is in a position where he almost can't be criticised. Arry left him a massive task but their results under his tenure have incredibly taken a downturn. Yet he's not being criticised. Why is that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am thinking you just explained it... Or maybe I missed it?
It just seems weird. But It can change. Look at NFL and how they managed to adjust the balance. Now it is a question of it if bugs the FA or not. They, like most here, would probably like to sweep the statistical anomaly under the the rug.
http://www.farenet.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/We-speak-with-one-voice.pdf
Page 7
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John Barnes
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posted on 30/3/15
I'm sure that Chairmen of football clubs across Europe are all rushing to get Barnes signed as their next manager with that attitude.
posted on 30/3/15
It's hard not to notice that Ramsey at QPR is in a position where he almost can't be criticised. Arry left him a massive task but their results under his tenure have incredibly taken a downturn. Yet he's not being criticised. Why is that?
posted on 30/3/15
You are right, he is a terrible manager.
I still think there is a bit of a race problem in English footy though.
posted on 30/3/15
He may not be a great manager but institutional racism is alive and well.
posted on 30/3/15
by Robbing_Hoody - putting the bureaucracy into footballism since 1979 (U6374)
posted 27 seconds ago
He may not be a great manager but institutional racism is alive and well.
==========
posted on 30/3/15
he's making an important point
posted on 30/3/15
comment by merrysupersteve (U1132)
posted 10 minutes ago
It's hard not to notice that Ramsey at QPR is in a position where he almost can't be criticised. Arry left him a massive task but their results under his tenure have incredibly taken a downturn. Yet he's not being criticised. Why is that?
*************************************************
Will be interesting to see what QPR do in the summer when they are relegated.
'Arry took over from Hughes with QPR in a similar position, couldn't avoid relegation but yet kept his job the following year.
I doubt Ramsey will be given that opportunity. You have to ask yourself, why not?
posted on 30/3/15
Unsure of Barnes as a manager, (ability) but when the amount of black players are taken into consideration, you have to query why there are so few black managers.
posted on 30/3/15
comment by Robbing_Hoody - putting the bureaucracy into footballism since 1979 (U6374)
posted 7 minutes ago
He may not be a great manager but institutional racism is alive and well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep.
Hopefully this is a generational thing and as soon as all these middle/upper class white folk in charge of stuff die off, things will change for the better.
posted on 30/3/15
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 2 minutes ago
he's making an important point
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It would make his argument more valid if he had even the slightest bit of success in management.
Claiming he can't get a job in management because of his skin colour can only be proved if he was the best man for the job and he still failed to get it.
Many white managers have failed at a club or 2 and never been considered again for a managers position.
I believe at Tranmere,both him and Jason Mcateer where known as dumb and dumber by all the players.
posted on 30/3/15
He was ballax at Celtic & Tranmere.
posted on 30/3/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/3/15
Humans tend to favour those who share common traits with them. It could be skin colour, religion, social class, caste, sports club etc.
What John said could be correct as at today. But such biases don't usually last for long especially given the type of capitalist society we live in.
If a black manager takes an English team to win the CL for example, black managers will suddenly become the next big thing. But because that has not happened, they will need to work hard to break into that closed shop called football management.
Such could be said of black footballers in the past as well.
We all tend to stick with the familiar.
Football management inclusive.
posted on 30/3/15
'Arry took over from Hughes with QPR in a similar position, couldn't avoid relegation but yet kept his job the following year.
I doubt Ramsey will be given that opportunity. You have to ask yourself, why not?
..............
Well, it could be as simple as the fact that Harry has a proven record in football management and Ramsey doesn't.
It only becomes a race issue if that is what you are looking for.
posted on 30/3/15
Greatteams beat me to it.
posted on 30/3/15
The whole Malky Mckay affair shows just how apparent Racism is in the game, what was it he texted "not many white faces in that lot"
Then tries to say it was "banter" (the worst word ever to be associated with football) and a private joke between friends.
It may well have been private etc. but it's clearly something Mckay thinks, he can deny it all he likes but it's obvious he thinks that way.
That's just an example that we heard of, you can only imagine how often similar things are said.
OP why do you feel it's such a big deal for Barnes to bring race into the discussion?
posted on 30/3/15
OP why do you feel it's such a big deal for Barnes to bring race into the discussion?
Maybe it could be because he has brought his skin colour as a reason for him not being able to get a job in management and hasn't bothered to bring up his 2 previous failed attempts at management as a possible reason.
posted on 30/3/15
While Barnes' time in charge of Celtic and Tranmere was nothing short of a facking disaster, I think he does make a valid point (sort of).
Many other white managers have had equally bad spells but always seem to get a second, third or fourth chance. Why is that?
posted on 30/3/15
comment by Wild_ Rover (U5211)
posted 55 seconds ago
While Barnes' time in charge of Celtic and Tranmere was nothing short of a facking disaster, I think he does make a valid point (sort of).
Many other white managers have had equally bad spells but always seem to get a second, third or fourth chance. Why is that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Might be worth looking at the amount of black people who have got all the badges to become managers but can't get jobs compared to white people.
Unless we get the full facts then we can't say their is inherent racism in the upper reaches of the sport or not
posted on 30/3/15
I can safely say it's in the upper reaches of our society though.
posted on 30/3/15
this hardly smacks of 'let go out and hire him'.
Celtic
In a "dream ticket" style move, Barnes was appointed head coach of Celtic for the 1999–2000 season, working under Kenny Dalglish as director of football. After his appointment he later re-registered himself as a player but never played a competitive game for Celtic. This much-hyped appointment was unsuccessful, however, and included a shock Scottish Cup defeat at the hands of Inverness Caledonian Thistle in February (which gave birth to the famous headline from The Sun: "Super Caley go ballistic, Celtic are atrocious". Barnes was sacked shortly afterwards, with Dalglish taking over first-team duties until the end of the season. Although Dalglish won the League Cup in the process, his contract was not renewed and the board decided to replace him with Martin O'Neill.
Jamaica
Barnes entered discussions with the Jamaica Football Federation in September 2008 regarding the possibility of him managing the Jamaica national team. On 16 September 2008, Barnes was appointed as manager of Jamaica announcing Mike Commane as his assistant. Barnes guided his new Jamaican charges to a first-place finish in the 2008 Caribbean Championships, qualifying as the top Caribbean side for the 2009 CONCACAF Gold Cup.
In February 2009, Barnes told Sky Sports that he wanted to return to club management if the opportunity arose. It was reported in May 2009 that Barnes contacted English League Two side Port Vale to see whether he could replace out-going manager Dean Glover. Ultimately, though, the potential move to Port Vale did not happen. Instead, on 14 June 2009 he confirmed that he was to be appointed manager of League One side Tranmere Rovers.
Tranmere Rovers
Barnes was officially named as manager of Tranmere Rovers on 15 June 2009, with Jason McAteer assisting him. He got off to a disastrous start, with Tranmere only winning three of their first fourteen games. During their time at Tranmere, Barnes and McAteer were allegedly dubbed "Dumb and Dumber" by the Tranmere players. On 9 October 2009, Barnes was sacked by the club six days after a 5–0 defeat at Millwall and a run of just two wins from eleven league games. He has since applied to become the manager of the Rwandan national team with Stephen Garside as his Youth Team Coach.
............
This suggests to me that Jonny boy isn't cut out for football management, and that race has nothing to do with it.
posted on 30/3/15
comment by Robbing_Hoody - putting the bureaucracy into footballism since 1979 (U6374)
posted 22 seconds ago
I can safely say it's in the upper reaches of our society though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All reaches of society and on both sides of the fence also
posted on 30/3/15
comment by merrysupersteve (U1132)
posted 48 minutes ago
It's hard not to notice that Ramsey at QPR is in a position where he almost can't be criticised. Arry left him a massive task but their results under his tenure have incredibly taken a downturn. Yet he's not being criticised. Why is that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am thinking you just explained it... Or maybe I missed it?
posted on 30/3/15
It just seems weird. But It can change. Look at NFL and how they managed to adjust the balance. Now it is a question of it if bugs the FA or not. They, like most here, would probably like to sweep the statistical anomaly under the the rug.
posted on 30/3/15
http://www.farenet.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/We-speak-with-one-voice.pdf
Page 7
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